Post: #1

I'm a 25 year old virgin, I had one peck on the lips when I was 17 when some guy dared a girl to kiss someone who was considered a creep on the bus and she said no but she'll kiss me instead. That was my entire resume of experience with women up until a few months ago.

I moved to NYC a few months ago with the intention of staying just a month or so with the sole intention of hiring a dating coach and working on my social life. I ended up extending my stay and its coming to a close yet again soon and I feel I've gotten no where.

I've heard the hardest thing is breaking the ice, I seem to have no problem with that most of the time (only time I do is when girl is hard to approach, eg sitting in cafe hard to get to surrounded by people) But I just start conversation then eject when my mind goes blank, I just have this pattern that I can't break. Even when a girl reacts favorably, is looking at me waiting for me to say something, I just feel awkward and uncomfortable and have this natural tendency to just leave. I'm really shy and once I'm in conversation I'm not even thinking about doing things I was taught to do such as flirt, but just please think of something to keep this conversation going. If it goes well I'll mumble a rehearsed line asking the girl out. But lately I haven't been able to get to this point at all.

I pretty much have all the time in the world, don't really have a job right now, and just walk around to a few places, open girls and then don't even transition. My coach is pretty frustrated with me, I've been working with him a few months and haven't gotten too far. At first he was understanding but got fed up at some point to where I now fear him. I wouldn't have been able to do this on my own as I would never have had the courage to even approach a girl without him pushing me.

Then I worry about the next step. I'm stuck on just having a conversation with a girl, how am I going to handle my other fears?

I'm 25 years old and don't know how to kiss...(actually had one kiss from the one girl I dated, I froze and let her kiss me as I just stood there not knowing WTF to do...)
I'm a 25 year old virgin, how will most girls react, will they laugh or will they just decide I'm not worth their time.
I'm really self conscious about my body, I used to be obese, have a bit of loose skin and big scars from a plastic surgery to remove some skin, will that be a turn off and will they find me disgusting?

Before getting into this those were my biggest fears, yet I can't even get to them...Its kind of depressing reading this forum and seeing how many "notches" everyone has and I can't even get to one after all these years. Just feel like I"m so far behind, like I'm a 12 year old stuck in a 25 year olds body.

Just transitioning into a conversation seems to be such a huge hurdle for me. I only have 2 weeks in NYC and am already kind of giving up in my head thinking if I haven't accomplished anything in months, won't accomplish anything in two weeks. On top of that don't know if I'll be able to have any success in other countries when I can't even do anything in an English speaking country...

Has anyone been in a similar situation and have any advice on how to progress?

Post: #2

Sounds like your putting a lot of pressure on yourself.
Dont be so hard on yourself man,you have obviously made some changes in your life to improve it so your on the right track,just push on.
It wont happen in a couple months,you gotta put in the work to get results.
Who cares about notch counts,all you need is one to get the ball rolling.
Maybe lower your standards and approach girls you think might not be getting any action,if your still a bit on the heavy side then hit on some big girls,get a couple bangs and then see what you can do to improve your techniques.
Do you spark up conversations with anyone or just girls you wanna bang??
In the last month i have tried to talk to every single person next to me on the train,at the bar,waiting to cross the street,in stores etc....My game has improved dramatically as far as approaching and conversing just from that,so far it hasnt transformed into bangs but im working it the best i can and have a couple girls im working on...
The more you converse with strangers the easier it will be to converse with women....
Im no major playa but i sympathise with your problems.
Maybe go pay for a girlfriend experience with a pro and tell her you wanna learn how to kiss/fuck etc....

Gentlemen lets try to help this guy out....

Post: #3

Bro! You're going to be just fine. I remember making out with my hand back when I was 16 and never made out with a girl and practicing from what I saw in movies, porn, tv shows and whatever.

Don't worry about how long its been and remember... http://www.rooshv.com/one-night-can-change-everything

I know how you feel though, I was recently in a 5 month dry spell and I literally thought there was a chance I would never get laid (at least for free) again and it sucked! But you will get through it. Yes you are 25 you are late, but there are people that were virgins till 30, 35, 40 and some have been able to adjust and now have great sex lives.

Be grateful. Plenty of people die young in accidents and never even get the chances you have now. Keep working on your body as the improvements in your self image will spill over to improvement in your confidence over other things as well.

I lost my virginity when I was 18 to a hooker and had my first free sex when I was 19 and found some girl at a party who ended up liking me. Don't feel bad comparing yourself to other people on the forum. There are all type of people with huge differences in game, age, money, all of us are good guys and as long as you're not a troll you have a community here who will help you get laid.

Try being social in all your activities. Get a job were you can be social, say hi and ask how people's days are wherever you go (guys, old ladies, whatever), get social hobbies were you get to interact with people. The more you get used to talking and rambling, the better you feel about your look and what you have to offer, and the faster you accept yourself and your circumstances, the faster you'll end up getting laid.

There's been lots of times in my life were something good happens and I thought that if I had only known a few months ago that this would happen I wouldn't have been so depressed. Good things will start happening to you, especially since you are putting so much effort, its just a matter of time.

In a few years you'll probably be an inspiration to a dude that is going through what you are going through now, think about that.

Post: #4

Man, I'm really sorry to hear your predicament. And I have a soft spot for dudes that are shy introverts. Let me tell you that I grew up extremely shy with women too. In high school I couldn't make a move on a woman even if she was blatantly into me. It was paralyzing. I think about all the valuable life experiences in high school I missed out on just over that bullshit. Some of the best years of my life were lost forever. I know that feeling of going blank in conversations at times. It gets better with time and practice. It still happens sometimes, but you become better at extended the conversation for longer periods of times. Think of it like jogging. At first you can't run a block, then soon you can run a mile, then 5 miles then 10 and then you're running marathons eventually. Not that I'm some big mack daddy by any means, but I have improved over the years in conversation skills with women.

Here is an important thing I discovered when I thought about my problem, that blanking out in conversation has nothing to do with lack of anything to say. So stop thinking you have nothing to talk about. What causes this psychological bottleneck is anxiety. Anxiety short-circuits your ability to have a creative and naturally flowing conversation that you would have if you were talking to someone you are completely calm around, like your parents or siblings. I bet you never worry about running out of things to talk about to them, do you? Think about why that is. You like many people that are naturally shy have a low anxiety threshold. You get flustered easily under pressure. So just remember, all the things you need to say to keep a conversation lively are already in your head. When your anxiety level comes down, they will flow out naturally.

I'd say focus less on learning techniques and memorizing conversation starters and focus on what you can do to desensitize yourself to social anxiety. Can you chat up guys easily and keep a conversation going? How about old ladies? The girlfriends of your friends? Soccer moms? If you can talk to them, then you can have conversations with anyone, you just need work on the anxiety. I'm not a psychologist(thought it's a strong interest of mine), but it sounds like you have this condition. Keep in mind that shyness and social anxiety is most likely a genetic trait. So it isn't your fault that you born that way and there's no reason you should felt guilt and shame over it. You can work yourself through it however step by step. If that dating coach isn't patient, then find a different person that will understand how to phase challenges in easier.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Post: #5

(11-03-2011 12:47 AM)swfter2456 Wrote:  I'm 25 years old and don't know how to kiss...(actually had one kiss from the one girl I dated, I froze and let her kiss me as I just stood there not knowing WTF to do...)
I'm a 25 year old virgin, how will most girls react, will they laugh or will they just decide I'm not worth their time.
I'm really self conscious about my body, I used to be obese, have a bit of loose skin and big scars from a plastic surgery to remove some skin, will that be a turn off and will they find me disgusting?

Don't worry about that at all. Many girls are not good kissers either (gosh, some of the ones I kissed were just terrible). Just go with it. The same goes for sex. I doubt that a girl would notice anyway. It's not rocket science. Just don't tell her (at your age no girl would ask anyway, because she'd assume that you are not a virgin). If you are bad, well so are many people as well despite not being virgins. Chances are you might even go on for quite a long time for the first few lays (similar as the guy Extramask (?) in "The Game"). Also, the loose skin shouldn't be a big deal. You might try to use that to your advantage because you put in the effort to lose that weight and achieved that goal. So, if anything, you should be proud of that. Or just joke about it.

Post: #6

Chin up dude. Your love life will improve if you keep working at it. Keep on approaching, focus on small-step success. First learn to overcome your anxiety and aim to simple have basic non-sexual conversations with girls. The flirting will come later.

Try and move permanently to somewhere where you can get professional game help easily, do your best to stay in NYC permanently. Or find someone into game in your hometown by googleing PUA forums for your city or something, and get them to be your mentor.

Do anything you can to boost your confidence. Fix your wardrobe, start working out. If your lost as to how look up Starting Strength's 5x5 report and adopt its program.

Just stick with it no matter what. Devote your life to it if you have to. Perhaps the most important thing I can tell you right now, don't even think about getting married until your game is tight and you've been around the block.

As your social skills improve you may be tempted to settle down, but if 10 years later she divorces you, you're going to be back to square one. Don't take the easy way out, stick with improving your game and you will be rewarded.

Post: #7

What is the quality of chicks that you're approaching? If the virginity thing is the major negative voice in your head, then maybe you should go for the pro..but you won't learn anything game-wise. Look back at your experiences with girls and pick out the types that showed you positive attention. Even if they aren't attractive go for those same types of girls, because you need a place to start using these principles. Lowering your standards too much isn't a good thing, but in your case where you definitely feel like you need to catch up, you can't sit around beating yourself up for not notching a 7.

I promise you once you bang your first non-pro the forbidden mystery of sex will greatly diminish. P Dog said it right though, don't settle for the first chick you catch a nut with. Keep learning, keep experimenting, and keep taking on more challenging targets. Even seasoned players can hit a dry slump, and the easiest way to get out is dumpster diving. Once you can establish your confidence and dominance in the minor leagues, you'll get your opportunity for the majors. You'll know her when you see her.

Post: #8

I can totally sympathize, and I think you're putting too much pressure on yourself. Personally, I would get the virginity thing out of the way and just hire a pro (a decent one). It's an easy barrier to get rid of and it will improve your confidence because a) you will have had sex, and b) you will have done something that is "bad." Also consider a different coach and don't blame yourself. Your awareness of game puts you ahead of 95% of guys out there.

Post: #9

I can't imagine a life without women. If I was this guy I would do everthing in my power to re-wire my brain and basically start all over. Game coaches, forums, books, psychologists, psychiatrists, every-fucking-thing possible.

Not having a job is perfect because you can commit full time to improving your Game. At this point, Game is the most important thing in your life. Without the ability to have sex, its hard to enjoy life.

If you don't make a serious commintment to fix this, you could be facing a shitty life as a no pussy getting, super beta.

You said you used to be obese. I suspect you have some deep rooted issues with self-image and feelings if inadequacy. You might need a good therapist.

I recommened trying magic mushrooms. Steve Jobs said they were one of the most important experiences of his life.

Make a drastic change now or live in frustration forever.

Post: #10

(11-03-2011 01:08 AM)bez Wrote:  Do you spark up conversations with anyone or just girls you wanna bang??
In the last month i have tried to talk to every single person next to me on the train,at the bar,waiting to cross the street,in stores etc....My game has improved dramatically as far as approaching and conversing just from that,so far it hasnt transformed into bangs but im working it the best i can and have a couple girls im working on...

I don't talk to every person I encounter, but try to talk converse with as many as possible (eg cash registers, while eating)

I really don't have any interest in hiring a hooker to lose my virginity...but on other hand I remember how helpless I felt when the girl was about to kiss me and I just thought I'd wing it but froze and didn't know WTF to do...

Quote:Let me tell you that I grew up extremely shy with women too. In high school I couldn't make a move on a woman even if she was blatantly into me. It was paralyzing. I think about all the valuable life experiences in high school I missed out on just over that bullshit.

I had situation like this a few weeks back, I don't drink so don't normally go to bars but wanted to watch a game. A girl came up to me and showed she was really interested to the point I knew it (asking really personal questions, where I live, do I live alone, touching my thigh) She then says she has to get back to her friends and I'm welcome to join them. I got really nervous and intimidated about going to a table with 5 girls and made up some excuse about how I had to leave for halftime but might join when I get back....I left for halftime came back and hoped shed come back but she went out of her way to avoid me and I blew it...This is kind of why I'm more worried about these situations now since my normal tendency is to just run...

Quote:You can work yourself through it however step by step. If that dating coach isn't patient, then find a different person that will understand how to phase challenges in easier.

Since I think I'm leaving NYC I think I'm done with him for now anyways, but yah it got to the point where he was constantly yelling at me. He's basically said some things when he snaps that has made me feel like shit and said that I'm extremely hard to work with. Don't know if he keeps staying with me because of the money or his ego won't allow him to fail so badly with me. But as a result of the yelling I put even more pressure on myself. When in his vicinity just go up to any girl and talk to them....even if I don't find them attractive at all (hell went up to 50 year old women my last session)

Quote:Try and move permanently to somewhere where you can get professional game help easily, do your best to stay in NYC permanently. Or find someone into game in your hometown by googleing PUA forums for your city or something, and get them to be your mentor.

NYC is kind of my hometown and hope to be back here in Spring...but I was professional online poker player who lost his job in April and have spent a lot of money on rent + coaching and don't want to spend much more since I haven't seen results..

I did do starting strength prior to moving to NYC, I've lost weight (+muscle) here but mostly due to all the walking

I don't want to get married but just sick of being alone, want someone...

Quote:What is the quality of chicks that you'

Quote:re approaching

? If the virginity thing is the major negative voice in your head, then maybe you should go for the pro..but you won't learn anything game-wise. Look back at your experiences with girls and pick out the types that showed you positive attention. Even if they aren't attractive go for those same types of girls, because you need a place to start using these principles. Lowering your standards too much isn't a good thing, but in your case where you definitely feel like you need to catch up, you can't sit around beating yourself up for not notching a 7

I don't know what my quality is, I walk around downtown a lot (soho/nyu) but girls I've asked out range in quality. I pretty much go for cute outgoing bubbly sweet girl.

Quote:I can't imagine a life without women.

I'm like other way around, was just thinking about this the other day. I've been alone all my life, have been loner too, haven't had a friend since like middle school and can't imagine having a circle of people or even a girlfriend to rely on. Pretty much live in my own head on my own.

I'm technically pro poker player but can't work in US, and devoted like 5 months to trying to get somewhere but have to really go somewhere out of country and work since I haven't made money this year. Figured winter would be a good time.

I have seen psychologist, he worked for a bit then sucked since he spent most sessions talking about himself. Left him when I moved to NYC

Post: #11

You got nothing to worry about.

Just don't worry about it. Don't stress.

Think about working out, making yourself a better man, finding hobbies, find interesting things to do, etc. Get better in life first and you'll see it'll all start coming together neatly.

You're a virgin? So what? So's half the world! Don't even tell your first you're a virgin, when that day comes, pretend its another pussy. If you can't stop thinking anxiously, think about how badass you are, and how you should've banged her when you were 16 and this is way overdue.

Not how lucky you are.

Pussy is like wind, it's a renewable resource.

Post: #12

Yeah I'm in a similar situation to you dude. I'm 21 and never had a girlfriend before, and I don't know shit about holding a conversation, but I have managed to go to clubs and hook up with some girls several times before. So I've made out with girls like probably 10 times and I've managed to get two blow jobs too. But I pretty much walked into all these situations. I let them come to me and initiate, except for the few times where I initiated by asking her to dance. I guess as of right now I've just been getting by with my looks, but that's not good enough I guess. I feel like my own worst enemy, because despite how far I've come thus far, I've still got all these insecurities going on in my head like 'am I cool enough?' or 'am I attractive enough?'

Post: #13

The one useful thing my dad taught me is that the most interesting thing to a person is themselves. If you find yourself blanking in conversation due to anxiety, just look at them and ask about anything you notice. Hopefully that gets them blathering about themselves and you get a little breather for time to think up something else to say. But even better, while they're nattering about where they bought their necklace or whatever, they've just given you a ton of leads into casually asking them more questions about themselves. Now, if the girl isn't into you she's not going to respond to this and only provide minimal responses, and in that case ejecting is just fine.

Post: #14

My take:

-Extreme measures, be DRASTIC
-Try different, absurd things in life you'd never expect to do
-Do something that pushes your boundaries, in an extreme way, EVERY DAY
-Learn how to meditate
-Go do some Hatha Yoga
-Go work on your body, gym, jogging, learn how to "feel" your body more fully
-Read things that engage you. Learn to be a rebel. Read Fight Club, Catcher in The Rye, On The Road etc.
-Scream, express your feelings, at least to yourself. Learn how to feel more deeply.
-Get intimate with your own pain
-Learn how to play the electric guitar, filled with distortion. Express yourself in different, more creative ways.
-Go to a rave party and dance till you fall off.
-The mushrooms idea seems valid, but don't go heavy on more hardcore stuff.
-Learn the balance between pushing yourself to your limits and respecting those very limits, in other words, live on your edge, as to be always evolving.
-Stop worrying about TIME and AGE, each one of us have a very particular process we must undergo

What you are NOW doesn't define who you'll be IN THE FUTURE.

We have INFINITE potential for change.

This is hard, but learn how to dismiss thinking patterns that disserve you. Again, meditation helps with this.

Good luck.