Post: #26

I'd add something. I think girls compartmentalize their pools of eligible men, so they aren't making perfect comparisons among all the men pursuing them. Meaning, a guy who say, meets her in a social circle isn't held to the same standard as the guy who meets her in a bar, on the streets or on a dating site. In environments where men pursue her relentlessly, like a bar and online dating even more so, the men will seem more disposable, regardless of their objective status.

Post: #27

Some good posts.

One theoretical way to think about it is that online dating increases efficiency towards an equilibrium outcome. That is polygyny, given that women would rather share an alpha with other women to get his genes versus having a beta all to themselves. There were cultural barriers that prevented that equilibrium outcome, such as the institution of monogamy. There are also logistical barriers around people being able to meet each other. Image consciousness is really a combination of those two factors (women don't want to be shamed for sharing an alpha). Changes in society have taken away the cultural barriers, online dating takes away the logistical barriers and allows for women to avoid the prying eyes of others.

However, translating this to real life, online dating leads to sub-optimal outcomes in several ways. One is that it over-emphases looks, due to the way the platforms are structured. Clearly, there are many attributes that define an alpha or strong genes that don't really get highlighted well through the platforms. Another is that by giving women too many choices, often they choose to not make any choice. And then, by making them feel like someone new is always just around the corner, even if they meet someone good, it makes it harder for them to commit (this applies for men as well).

Overall online dating has brought me good results so I can't hate on it too much, but it definitely has changed so much over the past few years. Back in 2012 when I first started OKC, girls would often message first and super easy to meet up despite a weak profile and suboptimal game. Fast forward 5 years, profile and game have been tightened up considerably, get a decent number of matches but girls often don't respond to opener, or if they do respond it's hard to get them to agree to a date, and if they do agree flakes are common. Still getting bangs, but the effort and patience required is considerable.

The real question is, what's next? It's hard to imagine girls quitting the platforms en masse. More and more are clearly just on there for entertainment and attention. Their elevated standards are here to stay.

Post: #28

Excellent thread. The advent and subsequent popularization of Tinder has made online dating very socially acceptable. I would argue that POF and OKCupid still have a slight stigma associated with them, especially among the younger 18-22 crowd. But Tinder is completely socially acceptable and having a Tinder account does not make you seem "thirsty" or desperate the same way a full-fledged profile on POF might make you seem.
Almost every girl in my demographic (I'm 23 years old, been an avid member of the seduction community since I was 17, and I can already tell you I've seen major changes) has a Tinder account, although they may go through short stints where they deactivate their account just to reactivate it a few months later once the dopamine receptors in their brain slowly return back to pre-desensitization levels.
Tinder is as ubiquitous to a young girl as an Instagram account. They don't see it as "online dating" they see it as a pleasant little time-waster for when they are "bored" (which is essentially any time they are not high on coke or taking dick on the deck of an expensive yacht).
Here is a list of potential uses that Tinder serves for women:
- cute little distraction to whip the app out when they are bored
- see how many guys like them and swiped right on them (ego gratification)
- see how many thirsty messages they get (ego gratification)
- see what kind of hot guys are out there (window shopping)
- potentially meet Chad Thundercock (hypergamy)
- potentially meet a rich billionaire Christian Grey (hypergamy)
- getting losers to e transfer them $5 or order them a pizza (taking advantage of betas)

Also, although I did say that Tinder is very socially acceptable, some girls still feel the need to explain the reason they are on the app:
- "I'm on here just to find my ex"
- "My friend made me get this"
- "Only here to see dog pics"
all the way down to straight up saying "Not sure why I'm on here"
This of course is all behaviour to signal an excuse for why they are on a dating app, which historically is stigmatized and just for losers who can't get dates "in real life"

In the grand scheme of things, Tinder and online data acts like an enzyme that speeds up the process of our animalistic dating desires. Hordes of men throwing their cheap dicks towards women, and women all selectively choosing only the cream of the crop top-tier men. Sharing these men amongst each other while the rest get left in the dust.
I truly think that this will soon lead to "game" as we know it being reduced to simply: Look good and be high value. Try and be Chad Thundercock, if your genes will not allow so, then try and become rich and be like Christian Grey.

Post: #29

(05-13-2017 08:52 PM)whenthesunhits Wrote:  The real question is, what's next?

Assuming that's not a rhetorical question, I actually have a pretty strong feeling about what comes next, and no it's not the usual fantasy about sexbots replacing women in the bedroom. I think there's something else that could happen sooner:

I think that if women are becoming this dependent on technology to further hypergamy then the weak spot is that technology is NOT beholden to the 80/20 rule. In other words, there is always some sort of technological countermeasure or vulnerability.

The role of gatekeeper is shfiting away from women and over to the admins of these apps/sites. It's just that the algorithms used by these admins pretty much grant full and unfettered access to women. But in theory, if Tinder decided to manually screen out the top 20% of guys, suddenly the lower tier guys would start getting laid. Obviously there's no incentive on Tinder's part to screw women over like that, but the fact is that women are now dependent on technology as an intermediary. The top 20% don't exist unless the apps make them visible.

So in lieu of that, what might we one day see in an attempt to tip the scales back to men?

My opinion is that there is a wide open niche for a much more intelligent bot that can sort of act like a "dating secretary" for a guy. This bot would need to learn via a composite of faces/bodies what constitutes attractiveness. For instance, if you pointed that bot at the "What do you guys consider a perfect 10?" thread and just had it average all that stuff down and then apply that to the images it sees on dating sites it would be able to intelligently prefilter women based on appearance. This was a plot-point related to the look of the android in Ex Machina being based on the composite of the protagonist's porn viewing history.



That kind of thing hasn't happened yet, but I believe that it is 100% technologically feasible.

So imagine reaching a point where you no longer have to swipe or make the first move but rather delegate to an assistant that is going out there on your behalf. It knows exactly what you're looking for and it is only bringing you back top prospects.

Now imagine this bot gets advanced enough that it can even conduct the first stages of bullshit smalltalk with these women. So they are already warmed up and ready to go.

You've just saved a tremendous amount of time that you can refocus on building "value" (career/gym) and then cash it in when you finally meet these carousel-riders.

Of course, the trick is to keep something like this OUT of the hands of women otherwise we're right back where we started again.

Post: #30

(05-13-2017 08:52 PM)whenthesunhits Wrote:  The real question is, what's next?

Nothing good.

- Delaying of marriage
- Fewer children born
- Increased maternal age = greater prevalence of autism and other problems in children
- Greatly educed ability to pair bond for both men and women after spending a decade or more immersed in the hookup culture = increased divorce rates
- Enormous stratification in the sexual marketplace (80/20 rule or even 90/10, with most men being incel or reduced to pursuing the bottom of the barrel)
- Massively overpumped egos on women resulting in sky high expectations and shitty attitudes
- Skewed sexual marketplace with illusion of massive abundance of alpha males on dating apps reduces incentive for females to compete based on appearance = more fatties
- With each passing year dating apps become more normalized and this skewed sexual marketplace, 90/10 stratification and rampant promiscuity become the norm for kids in the future
- Greater spread of venereal diseases, including developing strains of gonorrhea and chlamydia that are antibiotic resistant
- Eventually it becomes almost impossible to cold approach most women because they've only ever used dating apps to hook up and the idea of meeting a guy randomly on the street seems "creepy", and any man reduced to approaching in real life will be automatically regarded as amazingly desperate/thirsty since she will assume (solipsistically projecting) that a man of high SMV would have no problem getting laid on dating apps
- Night game venues will continue to decline in effectiveness in facilitating hookups

We are essentially witnessing the complete destruction of the sexual marketplace that has been the norm for most of the past fifty years. This sexual marketplace was typified by a reliance on social circle and night time venues to facilitate hookups. Women's choices were constrained necessarily to the men within their immediate proximity. If she wanted to meet a man she had to put in the effort to go out to a public venue with friends, or else rely on her social circle to introduce her to a man. This acted as an enormous brake on female hypergamy, and combined with social pressures and norms that encouraged early marriages (which have since decayed), the effect was that most young women did not have a high number of sexual partners and married by their early twenties.

Dating apps turn everything upside down. Women are given the illusion of having unlimited sexual options. They can engage in unimaginable levels of promiscuous behavior with complete impunity and secrecy. This, I believe, is one of the most crucial points: in years past, if a woman wanted to experiment with promiscuity, she had to spend a lot of time hanging out in bars and clubs, and otherwise making herself seen around town. This would obviously quickly result in her developing a reputation as a slut, which would be highly damaging to her marriage prospects. Not to mention it's also physically exhausting and massively time consuming to spend that much time going out. But no more. Women now can easily fuck a new guy every week for years at a time with their friends and family being none the wiser. And they can do so with essentially no investment of time or energy. It's an unlimited sexual buffet at women's fingertips. Can we really not expect them to gorge themselves until they've had their fill? Of course not, it's just human nature. And so they gorge. They get pumped and dumped by men with SMVs above their own who they have no hope of securing commitment from. But they never forget that good dicking they got and will hold it against every subsequent man who doesn't measure up. Alpha widowhood is becoming the new normal, and all of its attendants follow: bitchy attitudes, thousand cock stares, enormous entitlement, selfishness, general unpleasantness, inability to love.

I've seen some guys speculate that the widespread adoption of sexbots/VR porn will reverse this trend, but I don't buy it. The majority of the men who will lose themselves in virtual sex are already invisible to women today. They aren't even in the picture to begin with, so their voluntary removal from the sexual marketplace will have no impact: they are, for all intents and purposes, already gone. A moderate amount of more normal and higher SMV guys will also succumb to the lure of virtual sex, but the effect of their removal from the sexual marketplace will simply result in women becoming more competitive among each other for the remaining alpha males. You'll see more 5s and 6s putting the effort in to try to become 7s and 8s. They won't be acting any less entitled than before: they'll refuse to settle for a man beneath them (which is 90% of men if they've been alpha widowed at least once, which will soon be the norm if it is not already). End result?
The average (even above average) guy on dating apps will simply be getting ignored and rejected by slightly better looking women.

There's really no way around it. Dating apps have been a weapon of mass destruction dropped on the sexual marketplace. And most guys were left incinerated in a smoking crater. Of course, some men who have success online laud dating apps, but they're missing the bigger picture: what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander in this case. They're fortunate enough to be riding high on the blast wave of the explosion, but they're oblivious to the scorched earth behind them, and equally oblivious to the hard landing ahead.

I would like to see the Alt-Right start seriously proposing the banning of dating apps. As a practical idea it's obviously very difficult to achieve, but the conversation is worth starting simply to implant the idea in peoples' heads that these dating apps highly distort the sexual marketplace and result in great damage to individual men and women as well as society as a whole. Dating apps represent the complete unchaining of the female hypergamous instinct. Nothing less than total female sexual liberation, which if left unchecked will literally destroy Western civilization within a few generations.

So like I said, nothing good.

Post: #31

Damn Scorpion, epic post, it's hard to disagree with anything you said and that is some scary shit. Clearly, everything you laid out has been playing out over the last few years, and there is plenty of evidence - more and more guys here saying that cold approach effectiveness is going down, the meteoric rise of incel culture, flake rates on Tinder getting worse and worse. And there is no reason to assume that things will stop here.

On top of that, there are additional layers of reinforcement so that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, because success with women is so momentum-driven. Guys who are not in the top 20% will never have a chance to develop game, gain ease with women, or learn how to fuck. Whenever women do somehow end up being with bottom 80% men, they will be disappointed when sex lasts for 2 seconds, and this will reinforce their need to chase the top 20% on Tinder. Not only that, but men who are not getting laid, end up losing their confidence in other areas of life, and self-medicate with video games and weed. So this will have a massive impact on society.

Thinking about it in a more abstract way, these trends mirror what is happening in our economy as a whole. Technology allows economics of scale, for the most efficient supplier to claim all the demand globally. Back in the day, you would have a general store in each town, and while most of these stores were poorly managed, the customers had no other choice since it was physically impossible for them to make a purchase from another store. Now, you have one hyper-efficient provider (Amazon) and all the general stores are dying a slow death. This phenomenon is happening across every field, which is why disparities of wealth are increasing globally, and this is basically what is happening with the sexual marketplace.

The only difference is that it isn't feasible for 1 alpha to be in a relationship with 10-20 women at once (I know from experience, even 5 is almost unmanageable). So it's not completely analogous to Amazon being able to meet the shopping needs for every person in the USA. So most of these alpha widows will eventually settle down with a beta, but because they are pining away for the alpha that made them feel so good once upon a time, and the shitty attitudes they've developed over their years Tindering away, they will be crushing the beta's balls and cucking them whenever they get the chance.

Post: #32

(05-14-2017 09:13 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 08:52 PM)whenthesunhits Wrote:  The real question is, what's next?

Nothing good.

- Delaying of marriage
- Fewer children born
- Increased maternal age = greater prevalence of autism and other problems in children
- Greatly educed ability to pair bond for both men and women after spending a decade or more immersed in the hookup culture = increased divorce rates
- Enormous stratification in the sexual marketplace (80/20 rule or even 90/10, with most men being incel or reduced to pursuing the bottom of the barrel)
- Massively overpumped egos on women resulting in sky high expectations and shitty attitudes
- Skewed sexual marketplace with illusion of massive abundance of alpha males on dating apps reduces incentive for females to compete based on appearance = more fatties
- With each passing year dating apps become more normalized and this skewed sexual marketplace, 90/10 stratification and rampant promiscuity become the norm for kids in the future
- Greater spread of venereal diseases, including developing strains of gonorrhea and chlamydia that are antibiotic resistant
- Eventually it becomes almost impossible to cold approach most women because they've only ever used dating apps to hook up and the idea of meeting a guy randomly on the street seems "creepy", and any man reduced to approaching in real life will be automatically regarded as amazingly desperate/thirsty since she will assume (solipsistically projecting) that a man of high SMV would have no problem getting laid on dating apps
- Night game venues will continue to decline in effectiveness in facilitating hookups

We are essentially witnessing the complete destruction of the sexual marketplace that has been the norm for most of the past fifty years. This sexual marketplace was typified by a reliance on social circle and night time venues to facilitate hookups. Women's choices were constrained necessarily to the men within their immediate proximity. If she wanted to meet a man she had to put in the effort to go out to a public venue with friends, or else rely on her social circle to introduce her to a man. This acted as an enormous brake on female hypergamy, and combined with social pressures and norms that encouraged early marriages (which have since decayed), the effect was that most young women did not have a high number of sexual partners and married by their early twenties.

Dating apps turn everything upside down. Women are given the illusion of having unlimited sexual options. They can engage in unimaginable levels of promiscuous behavior with complete impunity and secrecy. This, I believe, is one of the most crucial points: in years past, if a woman wanted to experiment with promiscuity, she had to spend a lot of time hanging out in bars and clubs, and otherwise making herself seen around town. This would obviously quickly result in her developing a reputation as a slut, which would be highly damaging to her marriage prospects. Not to mention it's also physically exhausting and massively time consuming to spend that much time going out. But no more. Women now can easily fuck a new guy every week for years at a time with their friends and family being none the wiser. And they can do so with essentially no investment of time or energy. It's an unlimited sexual buffet at women's fingertips. Can we really not expect them to gorge themselves until they've had their fill? Of course not, it's just human nature. And so they gorge. They get pumped and dumped by men with SMVs above their own who they have no hope of securing commitment from. But they never forget that good dicking they got and will hold it against every subsequent man who doesn't measure up. Alpha widowhood is becoming the new normal, and all of its attendants follow: bitchy attitudes, thousand cock stares, enormous entitlement, selfishness, general unpleasantness, inability to love.

I've seen some guys speculate that the widespread adoption of sexbots/VR porn will reverse this trend, but I don't buy it. The majority of the men who will lose themselves in virtual sex are already invisible to women today. They aren't even in the picture to begin with, so their voluntary removal from the sexual marketplace will have no impact: they are, for all intents and purposes, already gone. A moderate amount of more normal and higher SMV guys will also succumb to the lure of virtual sex, but the effect of their removal from the sexual marketplace will simply result in women becoming more competitive among each other for the remaining alpha males. You'll see more 5s and 6s putting the effort in to try to become 7s and 8s. They won't be acting any less entitled than before: they'll refuse to settle for a man beneath them (which is 90% of men if they've been alpha widowed at least once, which will soon be the norm if it is not already). End result?
The average (even above average) guy on dating apps will simply be getting ignored and rejected by slightly better looking women.

There's really no way around it. Dating apps have been a weapon of mass destruction dropped on the sexual marketplace. And most guys were left incinerated in a smoking crater. Of course, some men who have success online laud dating apps, but they're missing the bigger picture: what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander in this case. They're fortunate enough to be riding high on the blast wave of the explosion, but they're oblivious to the scorched earth behind them, and equally oblivious to the hard landing ahead.

I would like to see the Alt-Right start seriously proposing the banning of dating apps. As a practical idea it's obviously very difficult to achieve, but the conversation is worth starting simply to implant the idea in peoples' heads that these dating apps highly distort the sexual marketplace and result in great damage to individual men and women as well as society as a whole. Dating apps represent the complete unchaining of the female hypergamous instinct. Nothing less than total female sexual liberation, which if left unchecked will literally destroy Western civilization within a few generations.

So like I said, nothing good.

Spot on, Scorpion. As soon as I see one of your posts I know it is going to be great.

Post: #33

I fucked this one girl not too long ago. Saw her at her work a couple times. Added her on Facebook and told her that Facebook suggested we be friends. Chatted her up a few times and then one night I was in her town at the brewery and invited her down.

Easy layup, and in my opinion she was well below my value, but mind you even Fisto called this place the world's worst pussy desert, so I grab my opportunities when they arrive . Plus the occasional filthy deed has always just been in my nature haha. It is what it is.

So next thing you know we have banged and somehow I'm sitting there afterwards with her phone in my hands and my dick in hers. I joke about the tinder app and she complains how it's so stupid and she "can't ever get any matches."

Oh yeah? I open it up. Swipe right. Match. Swipe right. Match. Swipe right. Match. You get the point.

THIS IS A GIRL I WAS ACTUALLY EMBARRASSED TO BE SEEN IN PUBLIC WITH EVEN WHILE DRUNK.

And they were not all bad looking guys. Not at all.

At this point we were both laughing but inside I couldn't help but feel this certain horror. Mind you, I can barely get a match to save my life in that county, or any American town for that matter, and I am not a horrible looking guy. Not a movie star by any means but if you take me out most places in the world, yes even here, I generally make headway fast - some extremely hot women by anyone's measure have bitten my bait over the years and continue to even at my current age - I pulled two nights out of three my first few days back in America by going out and still can, at least sometimes, hang with attractive women fifteen years my junior when it comes to real life....but yet online this half ass bitch makes me look like the president of the chess club in comparison to her effortless results.

And she's in complete denial about it too.

She kind of blew me off after that. Maybe it's because I woke up and cummed in her mouth and wouldn't get in the shower to fuck her (still not very attracted to her), but I'd just as easily believe that she decided to give one of those guys I matched her with a try. Hahaha Not that I really give a shit in the end - I just find it all very interesting compared to the America I grew up in.

All interesting food for thought though indeed.

Fortunately I still tend to do pretty well if I just get out and interact with women face to face. But I'd say that with any girl I meet anywhere under any terms the online issue has become more and more of a factor in our relationships over the years, going so far as to ruin any chance of us making it even while the same technology was the only thing keeping us together.

I've met some pretty solid couples who've chosen to opt out of social media completely, and while not all of us are looking for something like that, I can certainly understand the reasoning.

I'm not here to bitch or throw in towels though. I'll always evolve and find a way, and the shit that worked when I was a young punk, before all this online stuff, seems as effective now as it ever was.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #34

I can't really disagree with anything scorpion wrote there. But it sure is depressing. Roosh wrote his "Bang" guides and they contain very useful content, but even in the past 5 years, things have changed so much, with smartphone prevalence and dating apps becoming mainstream, leading to everything scorpion mentions, it has become and continues to become an even more challenging environment everyday. It's extremely disheartening to read all these glory days are over posts of "I used to live in X for years but now it has become terrible" or "I used to visit X regularly but now it's just not worth it" etc.

I try to imagine it getting much worse than this and there is still room for much deterioration. However I'm hoping for something to reach a sort of equilibrium and the decline to slow down and eventually stop. I don't know how realistic a hope that is. I mean, I look at men around me and see them toiling day and night to keep their repulsive warpigs happy, and I think, "How the hell do they do it? What is wrong with them? When are they going to wake up?" And for the "top 20%" (I would change it to top 2%, if that), even these guys are being dragged down, make no mistake about it. Yes some may benefit from it but a lot of the so-called "rich" (top 2%) aren't actually getting "richer", they too are being forced to accept lower standards as clearly ugly girls get full on delusional about their value thanks to their little handheld trojan horse.

I've been on dates with 6s - attractive but average - with whom I put in minimal effort, that I would have nailed easily 10 years ago, ghost on me after the first date/flat out refuse to come to my place. Equally I have walked out on dates with 6s as I refused to tolerate boring/annoying personality or any kind of attitude. Some of them just needed a bit more time to get into bed, but I still walked out. I have pretty reasonable but concrete boundaries in what I will and will not accept depending on how attractive and non-annoying the girl is. The problem is I either accept taking more shit and doing more for average girls I used to get with ease, or I go without. This even applies to absolutely disgusting "women" (2s, 3s, 4s - known as 49ers) where you would literally rather fuck an animal like a cow or female horse than fuck her. But here is the 3, demanding a man in the top 2% of looks, and the fucked up thing is, she gets it. So even if you're top 5%, good luck with getting a 3. Fucked up shit like this does happen on a daily basis and you cannot believe it until you see it but there are always takers even for 3s. When are men on these apps going to say enough's enough? For a lot of these top 2-5% men, just getting a 6, 6.5 with decent personality to commit is a rarity, so these average girls get a top 2% man to show off to their friends and family, and the relationship dynamics are to where she has him by the balls. Even legitimately famous, filthy rich men have difficulty in finding and keeping a genuinely attractive, good humored, decent woman for marriage and children. Most remaining attractive women have been pumped and dumped so much that they just don't have long-term value but there are no other options. You can't make a ho into a housewife but it's also very difficult to find a unicorn. It's not entirely correct that the top 0.1-2% is having an absolute ball without suffering some of the effects of the overall decline of average quality/quantity of women in the SMP. I do agree though that what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander: for every man with 200+ notches that is a hell of a lot of "collective damage" done to women in terms of physical and emotional wear and tear. The whole "leave them better than you found them" is largely impossible.

Whatever happens I'm prepared either way to enjoy the decline. It's very sad and all but we can't just sit and mope forever. I'd love to see all the smartphones and apps banned but it's not realistic. Every time an advancement in technology is made, it is almost automatically hailed as a positive thing. The way smartphones and internet by means of dating apps have affected the SMP is one steaming pile of evidence that "progress" isn't always a good thing. This applies to economic progress as well: a country can get "too rich" to the point where it affects the SMP adversely, see western and Anglosphere countries with generous welfare programs. Living in subsaharan African squalor is obviously not going to yield a good place to pickup women, but neither is a very high standard of living e.g. Sweden, Switzerland etc..

Post: #35

(05-15-2017 04:47 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  This even applies to absolutely disgusting "women" (2s, 3s, 4s - known as 49ers) where you would literally rather fuck an animal like a cow or female horse than fuck her.

Hahaha hilarious quote there. Made me chuckle aloud.

(05-15-2017 04:47 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  So even if you're top 5%, good luck with getting a 3.

While I agree things have gotten pretty bad, that's a really excessive exaggeration. I'm probably a 6 in looks (no more than a 7 at best), and a broke student with minimal smv and minimal game, but no girl I've been with has been below a 5. A man in the top 5% would not have to struggle to get a 3, nor would he have to resort to that kind of dumpster diving in the first place.

Post: #36

(05-14-2017 06:59 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  Also, although I did say that Tinder is very socially acceptable, some girls still feel the need to explain the reason they are on the app:
- "I'm on here just to find my ex"
- "My friend made me get this"
- "Only here to see dog pics"
all the way down to straight up saying "Not sure why I'm on here"

The one I hear the most is:

- "I signed up as a joke"

And maybe I don't get the joke, but what does that mean exactly? How is signing up for one of these dating apps 'a joke'? Is the avalanche of attention the joke? "Haha look at all these thirsty losers sending me messages all day as I unmatch them and throw them in the trash."

Post: #37

(05-14-2017 09:13 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 08:52 PM)whenthesunhits Wrote:  The real question is, what's next?

Nothing good.

- Delaying of marriage
- Fewer children born
- Increased maternal age = greater prevalence of autism and other problems in children
- Greatly educed ability to pair bond for both men and women after spending a decade or more immersed in the hookup culture = increased divorce rates
- Enormous stratification in the sexual marketplace (80/20 rule or even 90/10, with most men being incel or reduced to pursuing the bottom of the barrel)
- Massively overpumped egos on women resulting in sky high expectations and shitty attitudes
- Skewed sexual marketplace with illusion of massive abundance of alpha males on dating apps reduces incentive for females to compete based on appearance = more fatties
- With each passing year dating apps become more normalized and this skewed sexual marketplace, 90/10 stratification and rampant promiscuity become the norm for kids in the future
- Greater spread of venereal diseases, including developing strains of gonorrhea and chlamydia that are antibiotic resistant
- Eventually it becomes almost impossible to cold approach most women because they've only ever used dating apps to hook up and the idea of meeting a guy randomly on the street seems "creepy", and any man reduced to approaching in real life will be automatically regarded as amazingly desperate/thirsty since she will assume (solipsistically projecting) that a man of high SMV would have no problem getting laid on dating apps
- Night game venues will continue to decline in effectiveness in facilitating hookups

We are essentially witnessing the complete destruction of the sexual marketplace that has been the norm for most of the past fifty years. This sexual marketplace was typified by a reliance on social circle and night time venues to facilitate hookups. Women's choices were constrained necessarily to the men within their immediate proximity. If she wanted to meet a man she had to put in the effort to go out to a public venue with friends, or else rely on her social circle to introduce her to a man. This acted as an enormous brake on female hypergamy, and combined with social pressures and norms that encouraged early marriages (which have since decayed), the effect was that most young women did not have a high number of sexual partners and married by their early twenties.

Dating apps turn everything upside down. Women are given the illusion of having unlimited sexual options. They can engage in unimaginable levels of promiscuous behavior with complete impunity and secrecy. This, I believe, is one of the most crucial points: in years past, if a woman wanted to experiment with promiscuity, she had to spend a lot of time hanging out in bars and clubs, and otherwise making herself seen around town. This would obviously quickly result in her developing a reputation as a slut, which would be highly damaging to her marriage prospects. Not to mention it's also physically exhausting and massively time consuming to spend that much time going out. But no more. Women now can easily fuck a new guy every week for years at a time with their friends and family being none the wiser. And they can do so with essentially no investment of time or energy. It's an unlimited sexual buffet at women's fingertips. Can we really not expect them to gorge themselves until they've had their fill? Of course not, it's just human nature. And so they gorge. They get pumped and dumped by men with SMVs above their own who they have no hope of securing commitment from. But they never forget that good dicking they got and will hold it against every subsequent man who doesn't measure up. Alpha widowhood is becoming the new normal, and all of its attendants follow: bitchy attitudes, thousand cock stares, enormous entitlement, selfishness, general unpleasantness, inability to love.

I've seen some guys speculate that the widespread adoption of sexbots/VR porn will reverse this trend, but I don't buy it. The majority of the men who will lose themselves in virtual sex are already invisible to women today. They aren't even in the picture to begin with, so their voluntary removal from the sexual marketplace will have no impact: they are, for all intents and purposes, already gone. A moderate amount of more normal and higher SMV guys will also succumb to the lure of virtual sex, but the effect of their removal from the sexual marketplace will simply result in women becoming more competitive among each other for the remaining alpha males. You'll see more 5s and 6s putting the effort in to try to become 7s and 8s. They won't be acting any less entitled than before: they'll refuse to settle for a man beneath them (which is 90% of men if they've been alpha widowed at least once, which will soon be the norm if it is not already). End result?
The average (even above average) guy on dating apps will simply be getting ignored and rejected by slightly better looking women.

There's really no way around it. Dating apps have been a weapon of mass destruction dropped on the sexual marketplace. And most guys were left incinerated in a smoking crater. Of course, some men who have success online laud dating apps, but they're missing the bigger picture: what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander in this case. They're fortunate enough to be riding high on the blast wave of the explosion, but they're oblivious to the scorched earth behind them, and equally oblivious to the hard landing ahead.

I would like to see the Alt-Right start seriously proposing the banning of dating apps. As a practical idea it's obviously very difficult to achieve, but the conversation is worth starting simply to implant the idea in peoples' heads that these dating apps highly distort the sexual marketplace and result in great damage to individual men and women as well as society as a whole. Dating apps represent the complete unchaining of the female hypergamous instinct. Nothing less than total female sexual liberation, which if left unchecked will literally destroy Western civilization within a few generations.

So like I said, nothing good.

This post is unbelievably spot-on as are the others in this thread. It's timely for me because I was just ruminating about this over the weekend. I have several female friends from when I was younger now in their mid-30's who are very average looking or overweight/chunky who are having absolutely no trouble hooking up with seemingly decent looking dudes, from both online and offline. I was out catching up with a group of them on Friday night and the subject turned to their dating lives, Tinder, Bumble, etc. Most of them are single, and they started getting out their iPhones and showing the rest of the group the matches they get from these apps (mostly decent-looking successful guys) and then the stories came. Most of these hags hook up with multiple of these guys in the same week and then get together have a good laugh about some of the text messages the guys were sending them and how much fun they had ignoring them or blowing them off since they were getting more matches from "hotter" guys on those goddamn apps. That's definitely what was going on the other night, and I have no reason to believe they were fabricating these stories because I saw some of the matches and messages with my own eyes.

The whole interaction just astounded me - these girls don't take care of their bodies in any meaningful way, don't have any interesting hobbies besides "hanging out" or drinking and generally don't have many interesting things to say and essentially put no effort into being the best version of themselves, and they are getting laid left and right and laughing about it. This would make sense to me if they were in-shape and in their 20's, but they are rapidly approaching the wall yet you'd never know it being out with them and hearing their stories. I understand the dynamics of sexual market value and have read Rollo Tomassi's blog for awhile now, and this isn't computing for me. Are there really this many thirsty guys out there who will lower their standards so vigorously for a past-her-prime 4? And is technology the reason these girls are so overvalued, or merely a symptom of what our society has now become?

Also - I live in a city that most believe is fairly balanced as far as dating and ratios go. This isn't New York City, but it's not San Francisco either. Depressing indeed.

Post: #38

^ Been up on Spanish for over 2 years now, very sad I haven't dived into Russian as well. Will soon mark my fuckin' words!

I don't watch a single video in English unless it's Trump, PewDiePie, or Cernovich. Still wish there were translations.

Post: #39

(05-15-2017 10:12 AM)Diop Wrote:  Are there really this many thirsty guys out there who will lower their standards so vigorously for a past-her-prime 4?

Sadly, yes. And I have been guilty of fucking girls lower than my SMV in the past. But you're taking the short term gain (getting laid) in favor of the long term (increasing your SMV margin for future lays).

The equilibrium is so fucked now there really is no way to fix it (unless you ban these apps outright). Those of us who are aware of this problem are way outnumbered by the simps, blue pill, attention-giving, thirsty males out there. Which, I guess, is a microcosm of our give-it-to-me-now-fuck-the-future society.

Guys will continue to work out asses off in the gym to get the perfect body, while females will continue to suck down their Starbucks and stuff their faces with fast food because what's the incentive to lose weight? They are still getting dicked down every day of the week. And if they aren't they can simple turn their phone on and make it so.

NO MORE FATTIES needs to be a law; punishable by castration.

Post: #40

(05-14-2017 09:13 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 08:52 PM)whenthesunhits Wrote:  The real question is, what's next?

[...]

I would like to see the Alt-Right start seriously proposing the banning of dating apps. As a practical idea it's obviously very difficult to achieve, but the conversation is worth starting simply to implant the idea in peoples' heads that these dating apps highly distort the sexual marketplace and result in great damage to individual men and women as well as society as a whole. Dating apps represent the complete unchaining of the female hypergamous instinct. Nothing less than total female sexual liberation, which if left unchecked will literally destroy Western civilization within a few generations.

Dating apps like Tinder and Bumble are already normalized. But girls often complain that there's too many weirdos there.

I think the next - well, it already is, really - big thing is Instagram game.

There's a couple of great threads here which are very worth the read, and I've mentioned it before but I see my flatmate use his IG as a game tool all day, every single day.

Instagram is like an expanded Tinder profile - more pictures, more information -, so girls have a larger database to analyze you. Girls also get even more validation. It's Tinder on steroids because it expands upon all of its aspects and possibilities.

So yeah, banning a dating app would be useless because people are still connecting over social media and would use it in replacement.

I for one don't have any desire to put my life out there, but my flatmate has almost 11k followers on IG right now and he gets hit up all the time by new girls and old girls who have been dropped off his radar.

I see some pushback from online dating from girls in my age range (18-25), but that's because they don't consider IG game a thing - hence why they're so susceptible to it.

I agree that the future is not looking very bright. Technology will probably turn many guys into incels at an alarming speed. The ones left will be separated into high tier and low tier. High tier guys will be fought over, low tier guys will fight for shameful scraps - not too different from now, just more polarized.

At this point I've been considering getting on the IG train but I don't think it's for me.

Instead I've been doing what I mentioned in the post I linked to above.

The way many terrorists fight technology is not with more sofisticated counter-technology - it's by dropping it altogether and not playing that game. Can't track your smartphone if you don't own one; can't search your browser history if you don't own a computer, and so on.

For most guys, social media is a trap because they're stuck being the average guy with the average life on the average social networks. Unless you are a 5% or better, not even going into the social media playing field seems like a good idea.

Post: #41

BeyondBorders recently said he dicked down some chick he is embarrassed to be seen with in public while drunk even, while visiting back in the US. He turned it into some sort of bro humblebrag funny thing. That's fine, that is guys' nature and what we do. Sadly we can't control it. Women control sex it is that simple.

I mean that guy has been everywhere and dated all kinds of women.

Fuck, if he does that?

Guys are just sadly wired to bang mediocre chicks at all costs for the most part. Genes have to be passed at all costs.

No chance, take the dog out back and shoot him. Shoot him dead.

For anything to turn around we can't just stop white knighting. You have to actively and have fun black knighting, which most guys due to $ & prior social relationships (brothers and buddies with fat girlfriends) won't risk doing the Lord's work.

It has to be to the point your brother or good shy buddy starts dating a chubby girl, same age, or older chick and you constantly say "what the fuck are you doing with your life?", "are you a fucking a loser?". "Off to feed the pig again at dinner?" If you sister is getting fat or dressing like a slut you call her out everytime you see her, if she brings her boyfriend to dinner you mock him for choosing to date her.

We are much too far past that though.

Post: #42

^ haha I didn't miss the irony of what I was posting. And I don't feel shame to act like a "bro" either - in my opinion that term is just an excuse to bag on white American men for being men, and I for one value my trashy whiteboy background. These are the things we've always laughed and humble bragged about in my culture, and we always will. But I digress...

In my defense, what I'd be embarrassed to be out in public with is generally a far cry from what most guys I've met would be embarrassed to be out in public with. So I may have been laying that aspect on a tad thick. But the fact still stands that she was nothing to write home about and yet matches every single guy I swiped on her behalf.

But yeah, it's just the nature of man and our own behavior often proves the rule, at least if alcohol is involved. What bothers me more than alcohol fueled hookups, though (which have always been a reality in our society and never exactly made women feel special haha), are men who see mediocre or even atrocious women as a prize. There's a big difference between the ego effect of me treating a girl like this like a layup and other guys actually taking her seriously - so for me the worrisome part is less about the sexual opportunities these girls have online and more the skewed perception of their worth in the marketplace.

I mean, if she's not a woman I'd take seriously, it matters little to me what she think she's worth, but it does serve as an indicator of what the women I actually would be interested in must be experiencing online.

My own online game in the states tend to focus on women I've actually met before, though, and especially who are at least on the perimeter of my social networks - in my own experience that tends to get the best results. I don't know if I'd so much refer to that as dating online though. To me that's just the same old principles unrollng on a different medium. The sheer noise these women get online is an increasing factor, but least for now those same old principles do seem to work.

Post: #43

(05-15-2017 10:31 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  The equilibrium is so fucked now there really is no way to fix it (unless you ban these apps outright). Those of us who are aware of this problem are way outnumbered by the simps, blue pill, attention-giving, thirsty males out there.

The sad thing is that there are even simps on this forum who are pretending the problem doesn't exist.

Post: #44

^ Nah, it's not that so much as it is that some of us prefer to adapt rather than wallow in "the way things should be." Life is short, things are what they are - spending too much time lamenting it is just an excuse to live a mediocre life.

Obviously banning the apps will not realistically happen any time soon. It just won't. So instead of getting your panties all twisted and passive aggressively calling guys who don't want to go all "mgtow" with you simps, how about coming up with some constructive ideas for circumventing the bs and getting results? The most successful men of any period in history were often the ones who in some strategic manner went where the competition wasn't and cut through the noise by avoiding it completely. I personally don't have all the answers for this online noise issue quite yet, but that seems to me a good line of thought if you want to start coming up with answers.

THAT is what this discussion should really be about - anything else is a self-pity party that will only increase your frustrations and bog you down. Recognize the problem, as I did when that broad was laying on my shoulder and I was matching guy after guy on her tinder profile and laughing about it, and then move the fuck on.

I feel like I barely understand American women after ten years in Asia dating girls who barely speak English, and I will be the first to admit there are some serious kinks to work out in my game here as I readjust to having actual conversations. My hair is salt and pepper grey already in my mid 30s and I definitely don't have the kind of cash that makes age appealing. Yet I still find myself hooking up with twenty one year olds. I see plenty of other guys who don't match this ultimate alpha idea that gets thrown around who are out there slaying some very choice girls as well.

Our resident college girl crusher, Gio, is a bit older than me, and I doubt online gender dynamics have slowed down his highly impressive roll in the slightest....

The party is far from over. So what are those guys doing that you're not?

Is there a problem? Yes. The world's constantly changing and it's okay to recognize that the rules are different now. Now what, besides complaining and lashing out, are you going to actually do about it?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #45

(05-15-2017 07:18 AM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(05-15-2017 04:47 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  This even applies to absolutely disgusting "women" (2s, 3s, 4s - known as 49ers) where you would literally rather fuck an animal like a cow or female horse than fuck her.

Hahaha hilarious quote there. Made me chuckle aloud.

I'd rather just tell my family and friends: "I fucked a cow" and show them the picture of the pretty normal looking cow, than "I fucked a 2" and then show them the horrifying, hellish, blob of cancerous flesh claiming to be a "hu-man". At least fucking a cow is a funny story. Fucking a 2 will give me nightmares for the rest of my life.

Quote:

(05-15-2017 04:47 AM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  So even if you're top 5%, good luck with getting a 3.

While I agree things have gotten pretty bad, that's a really excessive exaggeration. I'm probably a 6 in looks (no more than a 7 at best), and a broke student with minimal smv and minimal game, but no girl I've been with has been below a 5. A man in the top 5% would not have to struggle to get a 3, nor would he have to resort to that kind of dumpster diving in the first place.

Reductio ad absurdum style yes, so the point was made to something of an extreme. I am not saying every hookup from these apps happens between a well put together, good looking, strapping fellow and a monster from DooM, rather I am simply stating that it does happen and happens often enough to be absolutely incredible, at least to me, unless you see it with your own eyes. Look at Diop's post, for example. These women have already hit the fucking wall - they're past 30. Biologically they are way past it. They could maintain a semblance of attractiveness as they age, especially at 30, while it gets a lot harder at 40 and impossible at 50, but they just don't do any of that. They remain fat, dumb post-wall women with nothing going for them whether in body or mind, because there is just no incentive for them to do so. Some of them may be 5s, others 4s, and below 4s you are getting to nightmare territory. I have banged one 4 in my life and I still get flashbacks. Yet men are queuing up to bang - heck even date or worse yet marry - these fat hags. I made the extreme argument to emphasize the insanity that is occurring as a result of these apps and the general social environment e.g. militant feminism, fat acceptance, awful diets from mainstream artificial "foods" etc.

It is commonly repeated that once women hit the wall it's game over. It's their decline and now it's their time to suffer as their beauty fades and they are ignored. A time when a 30+ man can now improve and live a life far better than women at a similar age. With these apps, the new "wall" can probably be extended to something like 50. The standards of men, even men who are doing well and should be doing far better, are so low that there will always be a taker for an obese 43 year old single mother of 4. Drug addiction? Severe mental health problems? Toxic personality? Type 2 diabetes from being a fat fuck? Stop fat shaming her! At least she can multitask by lying on her back taking dick and stuffing her face with cheetos at the same time.

On serious note, though, for men, when does the gag reflex kick in? For example when you even think of doing a 3, don't you feel genuinely sick? And if I did it there's a good chance I would vomit. That's not to mention the shame, embarrassment and the flashbacks. What the fuck is wrong with these men who have no standards? They pursue women who are actively, and I mean very actively ugly, not simply "plain/not attractive".

There's a lot of talk about IG, but I don't want to feed the beast. I feel like every 5-10 years now there's some new site or app on the block, but it gets replaced. It might be useful now but there are no guarantees for the future. Plus it just makes things worse in the long run. Also as a matter of principle I'm not fighting for 4s and 5s. As a man you have to have certain boundaries and a certain level of self-respect. Increasingly these seemingly surface level attractive simps have none of this and actively pursue repulsive women.

Post: #46

Get really good at cold approach at the club -- you get rid of 99% of these kinds of problems.

Online dating always has been and always will be a terrible return for men.

Post: #47

(05-15-2017 03:51 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ Nah, it's not that so much as it is that some of us prefer to adapt rather than wallow in "the way things should be." Life is short, things are what they are - spending too much time lamenting it is just an excuse to live a mediocre life.

Obviously banning the apps will not realistically happen any time soon. It just won't. So instead of getting your panties all twisted and passive aggressively calling guys who don't want to go all "mgtow" with you simps, how about coming up with some constructive ideas for circumventing the bs and getting results? The most successful men of any period in history were often the ones who in some strategic manner went where the competition wasn't and cut through the noise by avoiding it completely. I personally don't have all the answers for this online noise issue quite yet, but that seems to me a good line of thought if you want to start coming up with answers.

THAT is what this discussion should really be about - anything else is a self-pity party that will only increase your frustrations and bog you down. Recognize the problem, as I did when that broad was laying on my shoulder and I was matching guy after guy on her tinder profile and laughing about it, and then move the fuck on.

I feel like I barely understand American women after ten years in Asia dating girls who barely speak English, and I will be the first to admit there are some serious kinks to work out in my game here as I readjust to having actual conversations. My hair is salt and pepper grey already in my mid 30s and I definitely don't have the kind of cash that makes age appealing. Yet I still find myself hooking up with twenty one year olds. I see plenty of other guys who don't match this ultimate alpha idea that gets thrown around who are out there slaying some very choice girls as well.

Our resident college girl crusher, Gio, is a bit older than me, and I doubt online gender dynamics have slowed down his highly impressive roll in the slightest....

The party is far from over. So what are those guys doing that you're not?

Is there a problem? Yes. The world's constantly changing and it's okay to recognize that the rules are different now. Now what, besides complaining and lashing out, are you going to actually do about it?

100% agree. Complaining/whining about it isn't going to solve anything (it never does).

Personally, I am going to do my part and stop fucking fatties or any girl below a 6 from these online apps. With saying that, my match rate % is going to fall like a rock and I know this. Now if every guy on these apps would do this we could flip the script on these bitches and set things right. Unfortunately that won't happen anytime soon (or ever). But at least I'm doing something about it.

Post: #48

(05-14-2017 06:59 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  I truly think that this will soon lead to "game" as we know it being reduced to simply: Look good and be high value.

This is true, but there are nuances.

In days before Tinder and OLD, you absolutely needed at least a modicum of game to land dates, because even if you were great looking, you still had to walk up to the girl and chat her up. This meant that guys with objectively high SMV (great looks/wealth etc) still had to put in at least some effort to outshine guys with tight game but not-so-great SMV.

With the current scenario, good looks alone are sufficient to land one plenty of dates through Tinder et al. And when these guys with only looks but no game become so easily available, it tends to significantly devalue the efforts others have put into developing their game, because it's no longer a distinguisher, at least when it comes to landing dates.

That said, game will still be needed to get the bang. I know plenty of guys that have no trouble getting matches and even 1st dates, but it leads nowhere because their game sucks. OTOH, I know other guys that get no matches, but when they do line up a date with someone they've met through day/night game, they're almost sure to score because they've put in the hard work of developing their confidence and swagger.

On the whole, though, the importance of objectively high SMV will only continue to rise, while that of game stagnates or starts to decline, because most women have already put you in the "potentially fuckable" category when they come out on a date. So if your SMV is high, you just have to not be a retard, instead of necessarily being the smoothest cat on the block.

Post: #49

(05-15-2017 11:57 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  Reductio ad absurdum style yes, so the point was made to something of an extreme. I am not saying every hookup from these apps happens between a well put together, good looking, strapping fellow and a monster from DooM, rather I am simply stating that it does happen and happens often enough to be absolutely incredible, at least to me, unless you see it with your own eyes. Look at Diop's post, for example. These women have already hit the fucking wall - they're past 30. Biologically they are way past it. They could maintain a semblance of attractiveness as they age, especially at 30, while it gets a lot harder at 40 and impossible at 50, but they just don't do any of that. They remain fat, dumb post-wall women with nothing going for them whether in body or mind, because there is just no incentive for them to do so. Some of them may be 5s, others 4s, and below 4s you are getting to nightmare territory. I have banged one 4 in my life and I still get flashbacks. Yet men are queuing up to bang - heck even date or worse yet marry - these fat hags. I made the extreme argument to emphasize the insanity that is occurring as a result of these apps and the general social environment e.g. militant feminism, fat acceptance, awful diets from mainstream artificial "foods" etc.

It is commonly repeated that once women hit the wall it's game over. It's their decline and now it's their time to suffer as their beauty fades and they are ignored. A time when a 30+ man can now improve and live a life far better than women at a similar age. With these apps, the new "wall" can probably be extended to something like 50. The standards of men, even men who are doing well and should be doing far better, are so low that there will always be a taker for an obese 43 year old single mother of 4. Drug addiction? Severe mental health problems? Toxic personality? Type 2 diabetes from being a fat fuck? Stop fat shaming her! At least she can multitask by lying on her back taking dick and stuffing her face with cheetos at the same time.

On serious note, though, for men, when does the gag reflex kick in? For example when you even think of doing a 3, don't you feel genuinely sick? And if I did it there's a good chance I would vomit. That's not to mention the shame, embarrassment and the flashbacks. What the fuck is wrong with these men who have no standards? They pursue women who are actively, and I mean very actively ugly, not simply "plain/not attractive".

There's a lot of talk about IG, but I don't want to feed the beast. I feel like every 5-10 years now there's some new site or app on the block, but it gets replaced. It might be useful now but there are no guarantees for the future. Plus it just makes things worse in the long run. Also as a matter of principle I'm not fighting for 4s and 5s. As a man you have to have certain boundaries and a certain level of self-respect. Increasingly these seemingly surface level attractive simps have none of this and actively pursue repulsive women.

I agree with the general sentiment that the smp is heavily skewed in favour of women. I agree that trends such as fat acceptance have exacerbated this issue (although to be fair, obesity rates among men and women are similar). Women still want to retain their traditional tendency of marrying up socioeconomically (at a time where male employment is assailed by the destruction of male-dominated industries and the proliferation of service-oriented jobs shamelessly preferencing female 'soft-skills'), while refuting the concurrent male tendency to marry up in terms of looks. All the while men must adopt clown-like behaviour to engage the infantile attention spans of females on apps, in a one-sided initiative to which women apply absolutely no effort despite their insistence on being equal partners with men. Others here have discussed all this more eloquently than me and at greater length.
But these 3s and 4s who are so apparently in demand, what kind of guys are forced to pursue them? I'm genuinely curious, because most guys I know or see who have girlfriends are generally going out with a 5 or 6. Rarely a 7, and almost never an 8, but almost never so low as a 3 or 4 either. And these guys are not in the top 5%, maybe not even in the top 20% in terms of smv. I realise you were exaggerated for effect, but I think most men share your disgust for 4 minuses and would choose porn over copulating with human trash.
I've mostly seen the ghastly warpigs you describe when swiping on tinder, when I swipe left as fast as possible so that the image does not linger long in my mind. I personally know only two guys who have girlfriends who are 3s, but they are both objectively low value - unfit, poor style, low-status/paying job, basically losers. If they raised their smv they would not have to stoop so low.
As for Instagram, I don't think it's substantively different from any other form of social media or dating app, they're all about self-promotion through images. If you tick all the boxes (i.e. fit, interesting, sociable, well-travelled, not broke) and can broadcast this through photos, you should be able to adapt that to whatever app comes next. I sympathise with your reluctance to participate in the coagulated cesspool of narcissism that social media is, however.
If you're a high value man you have decent options despite the onslaught of dating apps; although an average or below average man is comparatively screwed, unfortunately. But I'm only talking about hook-ups/relatively informal relationships of course. For marriage, almost no man in the West is going to have options because as we all know, the family is simply no longer valued as an institution.

Post: #50

Remember that value goes beyond simple physical attraction. Just because a guy is banging a 5 in looks doesn't mean she's a 5 across the board. The compromise you get into is banging a woman who passes the boner test but is only willing to date you because she's riddled with issues that cause her to avoid or repell alphas. That's a situation I know all too well. We know all women are neurotic, but it's a matter of degree. So you can't just look at your friends and figure out the current balance of power in the sexual marketplace based on comparing physical looks alone.