Older players (Mid 30s & 40+), Advice for 25yo

You young guys are so economically fucked compared to my generation. Its absolutely frightening.

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I don't post much any more but I'll post here. Seems like one of the last useful threads on the forum.

I will cover career development and marriage/children since those topics I know intimately.

The first thing I would ask you to work on, OP, if you're 25 is your Inner game. Honestly, this is an area I only developed starting in my mid 30s and I'm only now really starting to reap the benefits of it, 5 fucking years later. If you have the opportunity to improve your inner game at 25, your 30s will be a much more immersive learning experience. I don't want to keep this theoretical. So let's get deeper. I'll keep this discussion to career related components. Say at 25, you're working for a Corporation where your compensation is fixed, meaning you get one set salary for doing a job, say, as a data analyst or something. Unless you are in a great place in any STEM or Finance fields, get your ass out of that job, and go into something with a more variable income, like sales. Learn to sell. It will be invaluable when the time comes later for you to take a step into business or other more risky ventures. If you want context regarding my journey, feel free to search my threads for more information.

As far as women, understand the risks intimately. As one poster mentioned here, it would be great to settle down at this age with a homely feminine girl. If you do, and her values align, you can have a great life with healthy kids and a fulfilling mindset. I got married at 28 and my kids are the most fulfilling aspect of my life. That being said, if you get married, make absolutely sure that banging multiple women is at least out of your system to the point you are at least marginally sick of it from a mental fulfillment standpoint. If you don't, your desire to game will show up in the middle of marriage. This also happened to me in my mid-30s. You can read my forum posts. I gamed hard and.. got caught. Was it worth it? That's a question for another thread.

There are many friends I have, a lot of them, forum members, that gamed hard until their 40s and now are finding it hard to settle down. Some are finding it hard to find a suitable mate. This isn't a surprise. That being said, gaming women, while fulfilling, can drain you so much that you want a break sometimes. At least in my case, I admit that I did. If you don't have this break and get obsessed, you may not be able to meaningfully assess what life means to you. If it means that you want to settle down, you will never see it if you're banging a chick every night. It will get somewhat addictive. The opportunity cost of gaming really comes down to the lack of thought development given around the aspect of starting a real family. Also if you're in your 40s and marry a woman in her mid 30s, the risks of having a child to her are high. Not only that, raising children will not be easy at that age. It can drain you some days. It used to drain me enough in my 30s. If you want this, you have to work for it.

I'll leave it there for now.

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I have to say reading the posts on here recently, what in the actual hell happened to this forum?

I remember being a huge fan of Roosh's work of traveling around the world to fuck various kinds of pussy and being a lifelong playboy only to find trash posts on here telling dudes to find a wife and get married. If some guys want to go down that path then fine but trying to force all young men down that path is pure insanity. If a guy wants to spend his life fucking randoms and fucking hot girls, that is his choice, he has no obligation to get married so I am not sure where the garbage on here is coming from.

It used to be about building up your value and fucking young hot women at an older age, even if you have to eventually rely on escort game and status/sugar daddy game rather than just your looks. At times I wonder if there is a conspiracy theory from the morally self-righteous radical right wing or someone to almost destroy the prime years of young men on here. How the player aspirations went to forcing men to be family-oriented. I have enough intuition to see through all of that shit but still, something really changed for the worse when this kind of a mindset of telling men to settle down took hold on here.

The playboy lifestyle is not for everyone but to actively berate it? That's crabs in a bucket 101.

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I think marriage is basicly a 100% bad deal in the USSA and Western sphere countries. Also if you get a wife from Colombia, Estonia, ukraine etc and take her back, she will revert to the American standards over time. Dont getarried and live in the west, its a trap, a scam.

If you want to get married figure out how to make a life in Eastern Europe, Colombia or SEA.

If you dont want to live outside the west...... Then pursue a life of fucking women and building your business and your body.

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(04-18-2019 10:17 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  At times I wonder if there is a conspiracy theory from the morally self-righteous radical right wing or someone to almost destroy the prime years of young men on here. How the player aspirations went to forcing men to be family-oriented. I have enough intuition to see through all of that shit but still, something really changed for the worse when this kind of a mindset of telling men to settle down took hold on here.

Put down the tin foil hat, bro.

There's no conspiracy on this forum trying to shame guys out of banging every hot chick in sight. If you wanna bang away, go ahead. Have at it.

What you are seeing is that forum members are getting older, and that comes with increasing desire to have children. The older I get, the closer I get to 40, the more and more I want kids. Totally natural and there's nothing insidious about it.

If you're seeing it as a crabs in the bucket mentality and taking it as such, then I think your inner game needs some work.

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What CleanSlate wrote is true.

I started developing my "game" and became "red pill" about 7 years ago. At the time I thaught that i would never get married or settle down and thaught anybody that did was an idiot. I looked forward to a life of debauchery

Fast forward 7 years, I am happily married with 2 kids and 1 in the oven. Never would have thaught this would happen. The interesting thing is that it was game and the red pill mindset that lead me to eastern europe and I met my wife in a day game session. I still apply game principles like negging, dread and maintaining frame etc to my wife to this day.

I look forward to raising masculine sons and a feminine daughter.

Im not sure this would have been as likely in the USA or the West. Im not saying its impossible, just much more difficult.

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(04-18-2019 10:17 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  I have to say reading the posts on here recently, what in the actual hell happened to this forum?

I remember being a huge fan of Roosh's work of traveling around the world to fuck various kinds of pussy and being a lifelong playboy only to find trash posts on here telling dudes to find a wife and get married. If some guys want to go down that path then fine but trying to force all young men down that path is pure insanity. If a guy wants to spend his life fucking randoms and fucking hot girls, that is his choice, he has no obligation to get married so I am not sure where the garbage on here is coming from.

It used to be about building up your value and fucking young hot women at an older age, even if you have to eventually rely on escort game and status/sugar daddy game rather than just your looks. At times I wonder if there is a conspiracy theory from the morally self-righteous radical right wing or someone to almost destroy the prime years of young men on here. How the player aspirations went to forcing men to be family-oriented. I have enough intuition to see through all of that shit but still, something really changed for the worse when this kind of a mindset of telling men to settle down took hold on here.

The playboy lifestyle is not for everyone but to actively berate it? That's crabs in a bucket 101.

There was also a time when people used game and put it out on the forum for others to learn from; and newbies learned from them and got better.

People like you need to learn from iconoclast007 above.

For the 1000th time bro, work on your inner game.

These posts of yours add zero value. I've been through this with you at least once a month here.

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I truly believe that life is a balance.

A hedonistic lifestyle might make me feel jaded and not be able to settle down, but I might be hungry for new piece of ass/note if I don't pimp out and get the players lifestyle out of system.

Then my question is, where do I draw the line?
Is it 10 more lays? 25 more lays? 50 lays? Does it depend on the person? Just go fuck around and chill out once a while to calibrate where I am at?

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My journey involved learning how to "spin plates". I stopped worrying about number of bangs and focused exclusively on quality. I based my succsess on threesomes and the quality of the girls I had in rotation.

This mindset brought pussy abundance to me. Eventually my wife convinced me to settle down and here I am with kids and a family.

That said, the urge will never leave me and in the right covert circumstance I poach a nice piece on the side, very selectively. Honestly, its makes my marriage stronger as I am fullfilled and my wife senses my aloofness and options and gives me more BJ's instinctively.

The " hedonistic" lifestyle is natural. Monogamy is societal influencing. It is neother good or bad, it just is. The paradigm is that the better you are at game, in my humble opinion.... The higher the likely hood of you fjnding a top notch wife and mother and keeping her indefinitely.

In a previous post I reccomended the book Rational Male. I would suggest you buy it and read it with a highlighter multiple times and hold onto the content as your bible for game.

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(04-18-2019 10:17 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  I have to say reading the posts on here recently, what in the actual hell happened to this forum?

I remember being a huge fan of Roosh's work of traveling around the world to fuck various kinds of pussy and being a lifelong playboy only to find trash posts on here telling dudes to find a wife and get married. If some guys want to go down that path then fine but trying to force all young men down that path is pure insanity. If a guy wants to spend his life fucking randoms and fucking hot girls, that is his choice, he has no obligation to get married so I am not sure where the garbage on here is coming from.

It used to be about building up your value and fucking young hot women at an older age, even if you have to eventually rely on escort game and status/sugar daddy game rather than just your looks. At times I wonder if there is a conspiracy theory from the morally self-righteous radical right wing or someone to almost destroy the prime years of young men on here. How the player aspirations went to forcing men to be family-oriented. I have enough intuition to see through all of that shit but still, something really changed for the worse when this kind of a mindset of telling men to settle down took hold on here.

The playboy lifestyle is not for everyone but to actively berate it? That's crabs in a bucket 101.

This is probably your best post so far.

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(04-20-2019 11:50 AM)bgbusiness Wrote:  I truly believe that life is a balance.

A hedonistic lifestyle might make me feel jaded and not be able to settle down, but I might be hungry for new piece of ass/note if I don't pimp out and get the players lifestyle out of system.

Then my question is, where do I draw the line?
Is it 10 more lays? 25 more lays? 50 lays? Does it depend on the person? Just go fuck around and chill out once a while to calibrate where I am at?

It's different for everyone. I'd say 20 as a minimum is a good guideline amount. For me it was 50+. For others it may be hundreds.

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(04-12-2019 09:56 AM)Lime Wrote:  

(04-11-2019 06:51 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

(04-11-2019 06:02 AM)Lime Wrote:  ^Leonard, these diseases are not gay specific, as many straight guys like to believe. You can get throat cancer from eating pussy they say. Of course this applies to women with a high notch count.

Yes, to the pussy eating part, that is the heterosexual male major risk. The throat cancer can be deadly. The other threat is just having genital warts and, of course, your ability to infect your sexual partners (so, say your wife) with a disease that causes cervical and vulvar cancer, both of which can be lethal.

No, to the second part about the high notch count. A girl could have had only one partner and the very first guy she had sex with infected her with HPV. But, obviously, the higher the notch count, it becomes an almost statistical certainty she will be infected if she never got the vaccine before becoming sexually active.

I read on some Dutch websites that indeed the risk is higher among the gay demographic. Pussy eating is the problem, my uncle taught me this already years ago. I have been very selective about which pussy I eat since, still one infected can be enough. Most often, the virus is destroyed. There are 100 strains, of which only a few cause the cancer. I suppose the risk is smaller if Im careful about which pussies to eat?

Not necessarily, but I've read some studies that suggest a strong mouthwash and brushing your teeth after going down on a chick is your only defense if you don't use one of those mouth condoms. "Dental dam." You can buy them or make them out of a regular condom. just be careful that the condom isn't coated with spermicide because that will make your mouth go numb and tastes nasty.

Check out this website.

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(04-20-2019 11:50 AM)bgbusiness Wrote:  I truly believe that life is a balance.

A hedonistic lifestyle might make me feel jaded and not be able to settle down, but I might be hungry for new piece of ass/note if I don't pimp out and get the players lifestyle out of system.

Then my question is, where do I draw the line?
Is it 10 more lays? 25 more lays? 50 lays? Does it depend on the person? Just go fuck around and chill out once a while to calibrate where I am at?

Sounds cheesy, but it's one of those things you can only know for yourself. Maybe you will be laying on a beach somewhere with #64 snuggled beside you and decide "that's it, I'm done". Or, maybe it will be #20 who is just a good as the rest of the girls, but has something a little different that clicks in your brain as "the one".

In the mean time don't dwell too much on what if's and worry about when it should happen, or even if it should happen. Live your life to the fullest, constantly improve yourself, try out as many girls as you can or want and let things play out naturally.

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(04-14-2019 08:37 AM)Borges Wrote:  

(04-14-2019 05:59 AM)Ouroboros Wrote:  But that's a whole different topic. My post was criticising the idea that the OP needs to 'get it out of his system' before he can be satisfied in a relationship because he was a 'late bloomer' compared to his peers, who were supposedly getting laid like mad in high school and college. The problem with this idea is that (a) the stats indicate that he has already banged more women than most of his peers and (b) it's difficult to ever 'get your fill' of bangs.

I agree. This is another discussion but it's an important one for late bloomers. I'm not sure why, but I have the feeling if you don't get it out of your system by your early/mid 20s, you never really will get it out. Perhaps what the late bloomer craves isn't just banging the women he didn't get to bang in his youth, but banging them while young, which is a logical impossibility. Late bloomers have to make peace with the fact they will never be fully satisfied. Guys who have a normal dating life during their teens and early adulthood are never as obsessed about collecting bangs as late bloomers are.

Fucking hell that's one eye opener.
Now when you think of it, many PUAs indeed were late bloomers.
Being one myself, I can definitely relate to the feeling of missing out despite now getting laid regularly.
I guess it's something you just have to live with.

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Good thread evolution, similar to my "panic" thread that I made a few months back about being late twenties with no serious prospects.

One major red flag that stood out on OP's situation is that his self professed looks declined drastically from teens to mid twenties. This means he is not aging well either to poor genetics, laziness, or both. This is unacceptable for someone who makes decent, but not "wow" money and targets younger women.

Regarding your looks the first thing I would do is get ultra serious about the gym, dieting, haircuts, tanning, teeth whitening, etc. The sexual marketplace is becoming ultra competitive and you don't have much room to not be the best version of yourself.

My second advice regarding looks goes against PUA orthodoxy but if you notice fat developing across your face or chin I would recommend investing 2-5k into minor surgery to make your face leaner. It's typically heresey to say this but you only have 10-15 years to snag a quality younger woman and as you get into your late twenties and 30s it becomes more socially unacceptable for them to date you and even moreso if you're obviously an older guy. Thus you must swallow your pride to look as young as possible at all times.

Some highly relevant advice for our generation that you need to start doing immediately is developing a good social media presence. Your digital brand is becoming increasingly important to dating and friendships and will pay you consistent dividends in the younger market.

I do relatively well with younger women in my late twenties but I can assure you that a large part of my success is focusing intently on my looks and social media presence. I look considerable better than I did in my early twenties as well as a thriving social media presence, but before I focused on these I was a fish out of water in the younger market.

If you feel that marriage/kids is in your future with a young woman then I would shoot for no later than early thirties to meet her and begin the process.

Something I would intently consider is how your location relates to your overall career trajectory. Cities like NYC/LA/Chicago/SF are the best to start out your career but the worst to develop a relationship and family. Cities like NYC/SF are outrageously expensive and women are inundated with careerist/feminist messages and wealthy male suitors. Try to make a plan to develop your career in a major city and use that experience to relocate to Dallas/Utah/Nashville/Atlanta where your long term relationship prospects are better.

I will tell you right now that you will run into a dilemma with young women in coastal cities. As I get older, I realize more and more how women are sheep who only follow trends that they perceive as cool. Right now the cool trend for a young woman is not thinking about marriage and children until she is in her late twenties or early thirties and either staying perpetually single or running through a series of medium term chad boyfriends during her prime years. What this means for guys like us is that we basically sit on the sidelines as future husband material until she decides to "make it count" in her late twenties. This ties back to the point that I made in the previous paragraph with deciding location and how it will affect you and your future family. It is very important to pick a location where a young woman has significant peer pressure to land and retain a boyfriend during her peak years. I am telling you from experience that you can have everything as a high SMV male in a major city and still get consistently rejected or dumped because women are not planning on taking the situation seriously until they reach a certain age.

I think that the cryptocurrency investments are the best risk/reward ratio for anything sub $100k. $50k or so with regular stock market returns is not going to affect my life drastically but could mean the difference between having a family in my mid 30's if I get lucky enough in the crypto market.

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Or you could delete you social media. develop a location independent income, move to SEA, Colombia or Eastern Europe and never deal with another worthless Americunt again.

We all have our priorities.

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Delete

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(04-22-2019 02:40 PM)Graft Wrote:  Something I would intently consider is how your location relates to your overall career trajectory. Cities like NYC/LA/Chicago/SF are the best to start out your career but the worst to develop a relationship and family. Cities like NYC/SF are outrageously expensive and women are inundated with careerist/feminist messages and wealthy male suitors. Try to make a plan to develop your career in a major city and use that experience to relocate to Dallas/Utah/Nashville/Atlanta where your long term relationship prospects are better.

I think the first part is great advice. If current trends continue, wealth is going to increasingly flow to the major cities. Low interest rates and boom and bust cycles exacerbate this effect. A good plan is to have a liquid skill set that can easily transfer to different regions. Lots of major companies have satellite offices spread across different states. It's much easier to start working for a big company in a major city and then transfer internally to a satellite office. The salary arbitrage might even work out in your favor.

The last part about moving to smaller/southern cities I'm a bit more skeptical on. On one hand, I can't imagine getting married in a high-tax, female-divorce-friendly state, especially with one of these women in the major cities. That just seems insane to me.

On the other hand, I gotta be honest and ask myself if I'm really going to fit in and fare well as an older (mid 30s-early 40s) yankee with no social circle in a place where people generally grow up together and get married younger. I haven't spent any time in these cities, so I'll have to do a tour and see how I like them. Maybe that's just me, but I wonder how practical a move it is for older guys.

I don't mind a plain jane or a girl who's a bit older. I'm more focused on personality type.

Big Five Personality Traits (OCEAN):

O = Openness to experience. Girls who are more open are going to be more creative, spontaneous, and adventurous. This doesn't automatically make her a slut. The opposite is going to be more driven by routine, more analytical, less willing to change beliefs, etc. Not a hard criterion, although I prefer the former.

C = Conscientiousness. There are two components, orderliness and industriousness. I think orderliness may be the most important criterion for a woman. Lack of orderliness is associated with promiscuity, impulsiveness, messiness, obesity, and excessive drug and alcohol use. It's just a general lack of discipline. Probably the biggest red flag.

Industriousness is not as important, in my opinion. A girl with no industriousness is just lazy, and that's not good. But if she has too much then maybe she's off running her own business with no time for you. I think you want a girl somewhere in the middle. Has ambition, but not an excessive amount. Ambition is particularly good if it's focused on building a household.

E = Extroversion. Not a hard criterion. I prefer extroverted since I'm more introverted.

A = Agreeableness. A girl with high agreeableness is more compassionate and caring. A girl with low agreeableness is more callous and competitive. This is a very important criterion.

N = Neuroticism. Girls high in neuroticism can have a range of issues: anything from low grade anxiety/depression to serious issues like borderline personality disorder. You obviously want as low neuroticism as possible.

I think the biggest problem is that in the big cities, you'll find a lot of disagreeable women, especially in the workforce. It's a self-selecting group because to get ahead you often have to relocate away from friends and family, compete with others, and spend your time making money rather than helping other people.

In summary, I think the best combo is orderly/medium industrious/agreeable. It makes for a caring, motivated, and competent mother. And a more faithful and supportive wife.

I had a girl like this when I was in my mid-twenties (she was 23 and a virgin) who wanted to get married more than anything. I don't regret not doing it because there were other issues, and I honestly wasn't ready at that time. But, I really didn't know what I had because I didn't think in terms of personality frameworks like this. She had the ideal profile looking back on it.

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(04-22-2019 02:40 PM)Graft Wrote:  One major red flag that stood out on OP's situation is that his self professed looks declined drastically from teens to mid twenties. This means he is not aging well either to poor genetics, laziness, or both. This is unacceptable for someone who makes decent, but not "wow" money and targets younger women.

Regarding your looks the first thing I would do is get ultra serious about the gym, dieting, haircuts, tanning, teeth whitening, etc. The sexual marketplace is becoming ultra competitive and you don't have much room to not be the best version of yourself.

I don't drink or smoke. When I do, it's because I want the girl to get tipsy.
I know it sounds like an excuse, but in college, I was pulling all nighters every week, then going out to have social life, and banging chicks on the side was just a toll on my body.

(04-22-2019 02:40 PM)Graft Wrote:  Some highly relevant advice for our generation that you need to start doing immediately is developing a good social media presence.

I don't know. I don't have the highest lays, but I don't want to be with a girl who dates me because I have social media presence or status online.
I had decent social media presence in college and all it did for me was hinder my results as I would keep on getting caught with girls liking my photos, etc.

It's hard to have a player lifestyle with vibrant online presence imho.
It was a waste of time for me, it's a lot of instant gratification action going on. I was thinking about what to post everyday rather than just living my own life. I was thinking too much about what others think of me.

Once I deleted insta, FB, snapchat, my life felt so much better.
More over, the censorship and left-wing ideologies were too much and I don't want to fuck with that shit. I couldn't post whatever I want. No freedom of Speech.

I also didn't want these huge corporation to collect information about me, know everything about me.

For those reasons, I am out of social media.

(04-22-2019 02:40 PM)Graft Wrote:  Try to make a plan to develop your career in a major city and use that experience to relocate to Dallas/Utah/Nashville/Atlanta where your long term relationship prospects are better.

Agree, I am originally from Chicago and have lived in NY also.
Been to Chattanooga, Nashville and lived in Atlanta. Can confirm.

(04-22-2019 02:40 PM)Graft Wrote:  I think that the cryptocurrency investments are the best risk/reward ratio for anything sub $100k. $50k or so with regular stock market returns is not going to affect my life drastically but could mean the difference between having a family in my mid 30's if I get lucky enough in the crypto market.

Yes, 100%. Bitcoin just broke 5500, we will see where this goes.

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(04-22-2019 04:35 PM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  Or you could delete you social media. develop a location independent income, move to SEA, Colombia or Eastern Europe and never deal with another worthless Americunt again.

We all have our priorities.

We will see. When my investments do provide me certain lifestyle, I will travel and explore these places for sure.

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One of the, if not the most important thing ive ever invested in was developing location independant income streams. There is a whole world to pursue full of feminine women, business opportunity and adventure.

The USSA is a shithole and toxic country for a masculine man. I suggest you escape the tyrrany.

Its sad the state of affairs when young men feel like they need to act like clowns to get womens attention, facial cosmetic surgey, sell their info and privacy to social media etc.. To me this is the definition of a metrosexual, not something a masculine man should aspire to.

I am the rugged outdoor type. I wear a thick beard. I have zero social media presence. Dress fairly plainly. My game with women is direct without clown antics. I lift, swim and train BJJ and eat a carnivore diet. Im 36 years old and have no problems banging 18-23 college broads. Women sense my primal nature. I am a barbarian. I find the soft city boy metrosexual type men vapid and I think women feel the same.

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(04-23-2019 01:57 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  One of the, if not the most important thing ive ever invested in was developing location independant income streams.

Working on investing in crypto/stocks.
I really do enjoy traveling and not super attached to the idea of staying in USA until I die.

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Crypto could be a good play, its highly speculative. I really like privacy coins like monero.

I would steer clear of stocks and buy physical bullion precious metals instead. Stocks are at a peak right now.

More important than investments is developing skills and businesses that are borderless.

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(05-03-2019 05:45 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  Crypto could be a good play, its highly speculative. I really like privacy coins like monero.

I would steer clear of stocks and buy physical bullion precious metals instead. Stocks are at a peak right now.

More important than investments is developing skills and businesses that are borderless.

Agreed for the most part.

I am asking this because you seem to have a quality relationship going on.
Which countries do you recommend for relationships/marriage in Europe?

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Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Belarus, Russia in that order.

Of all the above Estonia has the highest standard of living for an expat. Zero corporate tax makes it a great corporate base for international biz.. Free and quality healthcare for residents.high quality schools and basicle free university for kids. If your into blonde blue eyed women its the honey hole.

Hit me up if you come for a visit.

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