Post: #101

(04-30-2019 11:07 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  @h1n1/ksbms
Ive got the house here. The car. A reasonably comfortable life. But it's not something that's out of reach (again) in a year or two experiencing a new adventure. Sure, doing CELTA and teaching in Russian or Ukraine isn't exactly leaving 3k in the bank at the end of a month. But the experience is the intangible. I'm mid 30s now. Routine here is set. I have as many euro jaunts as my annual leave will allow. But surely we can just strip all the philosophy away and put this down to rolling a dice on a new experience for a year or two? Come on guys were only here once!

Hey mate! When are you getting to Kiev?

Post: #102

(04-30-2019 01:45 PM)superschalk Wrote:  The most miserable people I met in Kiev are the long term expats who have to live on an average salary which is high for Ukrainian standards but where you can´t spend the money in a way like us visitors do.
...
The "good" Ukrainian girl is sweet and lovely but boring at the same time so after your 20th date the enjoyment fades away.

Totally seconded as someone who has been in kiev dating one girl for almost a year now (recently broke up).

Great feeling on arrival and after the first few months but day in an day out it really wears on you. The city and the people.

Post: #103

Comparison between Kiev and Belgrade.
For day game Kiev wins hands down, on the other end nightlife is awesome and better in Belgrade. Quality of girls better in Ukraine, foreign factor and level of English higher in Belgrade. Climate and atmosphere better in Belgrade, really down to earth and cultured people, compared to Ukraine where many scams are going on.

I would personally choose Belgrade.

Post: #104

What I think is seriously overlooked is quality of medical services, detection, equipment, skills, treatment options and hospitals. One of the posters mentioned, he'd want to retire to Bulgaria. The older you get, the more problems will affect you (you can mitigate against them, but are you now, or preferably, have been for years strictly avoiding smoking, alcohol, bad foods, eating well-balanced foods, exercising regularly?). Still, some ailments will catch up with you.

Living in Eastern Europe is all good, until shit hits the fan. Whereas EU (tries to?) enforces standards in all EU countries (as much as possible), Ukraine is not in the EU. Don't expect much, when you really need it and your life is in danger. People here are overly optimistic about moving to Kiev and living happily ever after. My mate from U.S. been living in Poland, where living standards are higher than in Ukraine (ask the over 1 million of Ukrainians in Poland who voted with their feet), and he has given up (despite having a Polish wife) and plans to return to UK (he has dual nationality) this year. There are many reasons behind it, including but not limited to is not speaking the language, the mentality of Poles, the red tape, limited and comparatively lower quality of medical services and he ain't in his thirties any more.

Sure, you can travel for some treatments back to UK or U.S. (cheap it ain't to flight back anyway) but if it's an emergency, you'll have to rely on medics, skills, equipment and procedures from 20-40 years ago (comparing to what you can get in UK, Germany, France, U.S.). I know what I'm talking about from first hand experience, and friends' experiences. When the shit truly hits the fan, you will really, really wish you weren't back home. And we're talking about Eastern EU country, not a backwater Ukraine. And if this fractured bone in your leg is set up badly, it won't look pretty to lame or use crutches for the rest of your life (like a cute Polish girl that I know or a friend's dad who's wrist has a seriously limited movement). Some treatments available, for example, in Poland will be from 60s-70s, comparatively to what you can have in the UK/U.S. Think again about moving permanently to Ukraine or Bulgaria cause you may curse the decision one day.

You'll say it's a bad and improbably scenario (no, it isn't) but the dream of retiring in Eastern Europe may bear a severe price to pay. Price not worth paying.

Give it a quick read: Ukraine health care system

Post: #105

(04-30-2019 06:51 PM)Elmore Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 05:46 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 08:20 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  I'm seriously thinking leaving UK and moving to Kiev. Sorry to hijack, but any of you lads living in Ukraine offer and advice on work? I'm a senior sales manager in UK and dont speak Russian or Ukrainian so I figure a sales role is out of the question. Possible even consider English as I do have a science phd so this may appeal to language schools. Anyone offer any help on this?

I would think very hard before doing this. That's not a bad job, and presumably you make decent money.

Even on a modest salary in UK, say 45K/year, there is a huge amount of quality in every day life that will be unavailable to you in Kiev.

Ukraine is somewhere you can get extremely rich if you know the moves, but otherwise you'll probably be in a job making £1,500 a month (if you're lucky) if you are going to the private sector and have no tremendous, stand out skill for which there is demand.

I would really consider very hard whether, with a PhD in STEM subject, making less than 2k a month as a teacher is really where you want to be.

Teaching English with a CELTA in a place like Kiev, say 18 teaching hours (full time, might not sound like it, but that is), you won't pull in north of 1000GBP. In fact you'd be doing well to get that. Prob be closer to 1000USD. Certainly dont go there with allusions beyond that, all you'll get is disappointment and lots of it...

That sounds closer to what I would expect. 1500gbp was already a pretty meagre salary, but as you say, I suspect the reality will be even lower.

Post: #106

1500 a month with paid apartment is cool living in Kiev. If you like gym and eat well (like me) having just a few beers you'd be fine.

Post: #107

(05-01-2019 03:46 AM)ksbms Wrote:  What I think is seriously overlooked is quality of medical services, detection, equipment, skills, treatment options and hospitals. One of the posters mentioned, he'd want to retire to Bulgaria. The older you get, the more problems will affect you (you can mitigate against them, but are you now, or preferably, have been for years strictly avoiding smoking, alcohol, bad foods, eating well-balanced foods, exercising regularly?). Still, some ailments will catch up with you.

Living in Eastern Europe is all good, until shit hits the fan. Whereas EU (tries to?) enforces standards in all EU countries (as much as possible), Ukraine is not in the EU. Don't expect much, when you really need it and your life is in danger. People here are overly optimistic about moving to Kiev and living happily ever after. My mate from U.S. been living in Poland, where living standards are higher than in Ukraine (ask the over 1 million of Ukrainians in Poland who voted with their feet), and he has given up (despite having a Polish wife) and plans to return to UK (he has dual nationality) this year. There are many reasons behind it, including but not limited to is not speaking the language, the mentality of Poles, the red tape, limited and comparatively lower quality of medical services and he ain't in his thirties any more.

Sure, you can travel for some treatments back to UK or U.S. (cheap it ain't to flight back anyway) but if it's an emergency, you'll have to rely on medics, skills, equipment and procedures from 20-40 years ago (comparing to what you can get in UK, Germany, France, U.S.). I know what I'm talking about from first hand experience, and friends' experiences. When the shit truly hits the fan, you will really, really wish you weren't back home. And we're talking about Eastern EU country, not a backwater Ukraine. And if this fractured bone in your leg is set up badly, it won't look pretty to lame or use crutches for the rest of your life (like a cute Polish girl that I know or a friend's dad who's wrist has a seriously limited movement). Some treatments available, for example, in Poland will be from 60s-70s, comparatively to what you can have in the UK/U.S. Think again about moving permanently to Ukraine or Bulgaria cause you may curse the decision one day.

You'll say it's a bad and improbably scenario (no, it isn't) but the dream of retiring in Eastern Europe may bear a severe price to pay. Price not worth paying.

Ukraine health care system

I think a lot, i repeat, a lot of the medical talent in these places left for US, Canada, or Western Europe a long time ago. To be honest socialized medicine is shit. So many of your hospitals in EE/ CE are public in nature.

Ukraine is in the midst of the war, keeping in mind I'm sure no one is in Eastern Ukraine. That being said, what was once one of the richest and most developed regions in Ukraine is completely devastated. Anyone that can leave Donbass is leaving or left long ago. There's martial law there. What happens for example if the conflict spills beyond it's current boundaries... (Not that it is likely, but the prospect of a long term frozen conflict zone, similar to Abkhazia, Transnistria, etc, looks increasingly probable).

Bulgaria had a journalist executed last year. Keeping in mind this is the EU we're talking about, but sounds something more like Russia, Ukraine or Belarus. Bulgarians want to leave Bulgaria and you can bet Poles want to leave Poland. And of course Ukrainians want to be in Poland...

Getting an ambulance in Eastern Europe is like getting an ambulance in Iraq... A quick google search can reveal as much. Many governments recommend medical evacuation for serious stuff for their citizens.

Bribes are surprisingly common in central east European health systems, among other unsavory practices. I do not think at all that Bulgaria is immune to this sort of funny business.

Post: #108

Health becomes a serious consideration when you enter your forties. I never had any insurance or any problems, but I know at least one foreigner who died from something that sounded treatable. So I am now looking into options.

That said, the standard of EE healthcare alone wouldn't make me move back to my home country.

Of course the guys I know who have had problems have always been the heavy smoking and drinking types, but it can happen to anyone. Also if you are not covered, limit yourself to risky pursuits such as contact sports, skiing, etc

Post: #109

Private healthcare in Kiev is surprisingly good, particularly good quality, cheap dentition, though the general point is a valid one. Assuming you are making ok money, I would generally plan to do everything privately in Kiev.

Post: #110

Private health care when it comes to serious medical interventions often either falls back on services and equipment provided by national healthcare systems or at least cooperates with them. For example, if the state doesn't buy/sponsor/import certain medications no best private plan can help. One should have a very careful reading and understanding what a particular private healthcare plan provisions and what not. Often it will be difficult to interpret the small print. Not to mention that the English translation may misrepresent certain conditions, ailments, and services.

Post: #111

(05-01-2019 06:07 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Private healthcare in Kiev is surprisingly good, particularly good quality, cheap dentition, though the general point is a valid one. Assuming you are making ok money, I would generally plan to do everything privately in Kiev.

Guy I know was taken to a private hospital in Ukraine , they couldn't treat his problem so he was sent to a national hospital where he died.

Post: #112

(05-01-2019 10:18 AM)BangBoy123 Wrote:  

(05-01-2019 06:07 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Private healthcare in Kiev is surprisingly good, particularly good quality, cheap dentition, though the general point is a valid one. Assuming you are making ok money, I would generally plan to do everything privately in Kiev.

Guy I know was taken to a private hospital in Ukraine , they couldn't treat his problem so he was sent to a national hospital where he died.

Dude what the hell happened? That sounds pretty bad... Details?

Post: #113

I'll just leave it at that.