Post: #76

How would you say the air quality differs in both cities? I realize Belgrade has smoking in bars, which is a major negative to me. I guess this may sound spergy, but i am of the believe air quality plays a significant, if at times, subconcsious, factor in quality of life.

Post: #77

(04-27-2019 10:22 PM)Elmore Wrote:  How would you say the air quality differs in both cities? I realize Belgrade has smoking in bars, which is a major negative to me. I guess this may sound spergy, but i am of the believe air quality plays a significant, if at times, subconcsious, factor in quality of life.

I am glad this is not another post about tall black men

Not spergy at all. I went from a clean air city to a very dirty one (warsaw) and definitely noticed the effects.

I spent winter here in Kiev and the air quality was absolutely awful. I contribute my temporary loss of smell and other maladies to it. People burn wood (and probably trash) to keep warm. Many people doing this in high density living creates a very bad situation.

Now that they're no longer burning the air quality is fantastic and it is great to get out an breath the cool spring air. It might not be scientific (yet) but it is invigorating and uplifting.

Post: #78

I already said it's bad in both cities. Belgrade is probably worse, rates amongst highest in Europe for PM 2.5. In winter it's awful

Post: #79

I'm seriously thinking leaving UK and moving to Kiev. Sorry to hijack, but any of you lads living in Ukraine offer and advice on work? I'm a senior sales manager in UK and dont speak Russian or Ukrainian so I figure a sales role is out of the question. Possible even consider English as I do have a science phd so this may appeal to language schools. Anyone offer any help on this?

Post: #80

(04-28-2019 08:20 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  I'm seriously thinking leaving UK and moving to Kiev. Sorry to hijack, but any of you lads living in Ukraine offer and advice on work? I'm a senior sales manager in UK and dont speak Russian or Ukrainian so I figure a sales role is out of the question. Possible even consider English as I do have a science phd so this may appeal to language schools. Anyone offer any help on this?

I'd say the first thing you need to do is start learning Russian ASAP. I'd suggest you do a CELTA course in the UK, whilst making a start on Russian. Takes about 5 months part time. By then you'd be equipped to work teaching, and have some basic comprehension of the language (i know that's Ukranian, but Russian is far more useful).

Post: #81

Re the air - apologies, should have just looked into it. Here's a comparison of the two. Doesn't seem like there's much in it, on paper at least.

https://www.numbeo.com/pollution/compare...Comparison

Post: #82

@elmore pm sent

Post: #83

For someone 35+ and single is there any other legitimate choice but Kiev that is within a few thousand miles?

Post: #84

(04-28-2019 08:20 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  I'm seriously thinking leaving UK and moving to Kiev. Sorry to hijack, but any of you lads living in Ukraine offer and advice on work? I'm a senior sales manager in UK and dont speak Russian or Ukrainian so I figure a sales role is out of the question. Possible even consider English as I do have a science phd so this may appeal to language schools. Anyone offer any help on this?

I would think very hard before doing this. That's not a bad job, and presumably you make decent money.

Even on a modest salary in UK, say 45K/year, there is a huge amount of quality in every day life that will be unavailable to you in Kiev.

Ukraine is somewhere you can get extremely rich if you know the moves, but otherwise you'll probably be in a job making £1,500 a month (if you're lucky) if you are going to the private sector and have no tremendous, stand out skill for which there is demand.

I would really consider very hard whether, with a PhD in STEM subject, making less than 2k a month as a teacher is really where you want to be.

Post: #85

@h1n1 I hear your points and have considered them. But don't you think life is about just trying things for the experience? A year or two away in a new place, new women, new streets. Isn't this at the heart of what people on their death bed say when they all have regrets about having slaved for a pension and wish they had done more exciting things? I know lots of people bitterly unhappy in decent jobs. Mortgaged up with fat partners. To be honest, a year or two among hot EE girls and getting by on a modest lifestyle isn't surely that much of a step away from living life?

Post: #86

(04-30-2019 02:11 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  @h1n1 I hear your points and have considered them. But don't you think life is about just trying things for the experience? A year or two away in a new place, new women, new streets. Isn't this at the heart of what people on their death bed say when they all have regrets about having slaved for a pension and wish they had done more exciting things? I know lots of people bitterly unhappy in decent jobs. Mortgaged up with fat partners. To be honest, a year or two among hot EE girls and getting by on a modest lifestyle isn't surely that much of a step away from living life?

Let me quote Heartiste, III commandment:

III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority*

"Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out."

If you abandon your culture, language, goals, career and education just to subordinate your life to some (admittedly, top class) pussy, you'll get, paraphrasing crypto-vernacular, REKT. Or, as the gamesmen say, you'll keep hollowing out and, begin to question yourself, have many dark nights, and feel empty on the inside, even if you score with ten Ukrainian tens. A man needs substance in his life, bedpost notches for the sake of them are fine for a very young man at best. Even worse, girls will instinctively understood you put them on a pedestal, making it actually less harder. Unless you want to become a pua coach and do that for a living, stick to your guns, and always treat pussy as a side dish (however big). Your life comes first, pussy second.

I absolutely understand you are fed up, like many posters here, with the UK. However, perhaps better to figure out what you like to do and how to make it relatively portable job, so you could either keep moving between countries, or at least be away from your home base for a number of months?

* Admittedly, Heartiste addresses an exclusive type of a relationship with one woman, but the corollary is, that in any case, a man should not make pussy his top and only priority. Sure, it is a paradox, as it is key evolutionary drive to impregnate as many women for the purpose of continuation of the species. From a teleological perspective of evolution pussy is a prime directive, but that's a species perspective, not an individual man's life perspective.

Post: #87

(04-30-2019 02:11 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  @h1n1 I hear your points and have considered them. But don't you think life is about just trying things for the experience? A year or two away in a new place, new women, new streets. Isn't this at the heart of what people on their death bed say when they all have regrets about having slaved for a pension and wish they had done more exciting things? I know lots of people bitterly unhappy in decent jobs. Mortgaged up with fat partners. To be honest, a year or two among hot EE girls and getting by on a modest lifestyle isn't surely that much of a step away from living life?

If you only plan on doing it for a year or two then I'd definitely say go for it. With a PhD in a STEM subject, a few years work experience already on your CV, and a British/EU passport, you'll always be able to come back to the UK/Europe and get a good job whenever you want anyway. Taking a career break to explore the world is perfectly normal in white collar jobs these days.

Re: that Heartiste post, moving to a new country isn't just about having sex with more attractive women (though going from the UK to Kiev that will definitely be a big bonus). You get to experience a new culture, learn a new language, and grow hugely as a human. Staying at home in your home country for your entire life just leads to intellectual torpidity. You need to get out of your comfort zone and challenge yourself: socially, physically, emotionally etc.

Post: #88

@Broodingsea - I don't think that really is what people experience on their deathbed. The brain seems to look forward to the future, and plan for it, even when death is imminent. The idea of deathbed regret is, I suspect, an artifice of the living looking to sentimentalise and imbue those final moments with a significance they generally lack in my experience. As a practical matter I wouldn't recommend anyone spend too long worrying about what they will regret on their deathbed. Most likely you'll be looking forward to your next visitor and whether it'll be peaches and cream or tiramisu for pudding when the eternal footman comes with your coat. If you've done something of real significance in your life, perhaps someone will ascribe profound or witty final remarks to your dying moments once you are dead. The peaches and cream would have more value.

That said, the sentiment itself is misguided in my view. Your ability to do things of quality that are good experiences and 'exciting' is either independent of your income - you can listen to the same music, see the same movies, etc etc as someone much richer - and therefore not radically altered by moving abroad: or it is directly tied to your income, in which case the move is rarely to make less money unless it is a short term thing designed to radically increase your earning potential. Moving to Ukraine to earn radically less doing a job that has little to do with what you want to be doing long term doesn't seem likely to increase the sum of your experiences over the course of your lifetime. It's unlikely to be the solution to any current malaise or dissatisfaction.

Kiev on a teacher's salary is unlikely to be that enjoyable, unless you are very young. The girls are beautiful, but unless you speak decent Russian and or have reasonable cash, you are unlikely to find it much of a paradise. Far from 'living life', I suspect the drudgery of working a lot of hours for a mediocre salary, and the frustration that will come when you realise that 95% of the hot EE girls are out of your reach because you don't speak the language, and earn about the same as a modestly successful Ukrainian, would have you disillusioned pretty quickly.

All of things you say in your post - the fat partner, crippling debt, etc etc is entirely within your control and not something you have to settle for in the UK, nor is it something that you would be guaranteed to avoid in Kiev (or anywhere else). If you have the proclivity to settle for these things, I suspect you would find yourself similarly positioned wherever you went. If you don't, there's no reason to suppose that unhappy lot would necessarily befall you should you stay in the UK.

Post: #89

@h1n1/ksbms
Ive got the house here. The car. A reasonably comfortable life. But it's not something that's out of reach (again) in a year or two experiencing a new adventure. Sure, doing CELTA and teaching in Russian or Ukraine isn't exactly leaving 3k in the bank at the end of a month. But the experience is the intangible. I'm mid 30s now. Routine here is set. I have as many euro jaunts as my annual leave will allow. But surely we can just strip all the philosophy away and put this down to rolling a dice on a new experience for a year or two? Come on guys were only here once!

Post: #90

I have met plenty of foreigners in Kiev from the forum here but also all kind of random visitors and expats. The happiest foreigners in Kiev are the ones who come here for a couple of weeks having a blast then go back to their home countries and come back a few weeks later for another blast.

The most miserable people I met in Kiev are the long term expats who have to live on an average salary which is high for Ukrainian standards but where you can´t spend the money in a way like us visitors do.

While Kiev is my favorite city in Europe and probably in the world I am only able to do three or four months stints. The city burns you out especially if your are partying a lot and going on a lot of dates. As much as I am happy to get here I am also always happy to leave back to the west. Don´t get me wrong the quality of life in Kiev can be great. Grocery stores especially Silpo have upgraded there offerings and quality big time over the past couple of years. But for me three months are enough then I need a break and you cant get these breaks if you have a fulltime job or are limited with your salary.

And last but not least the girls. It is great to be surrounded by many beautiful girls who are very often single. But even this fact becomes nothing special anymore after two months. I would even go as far and say it is getting tiring especially if you do not stick with one girl. Going on dates and doing the walking and talking routine can get very boring. The "good" Ukrainian girl is sweet and lovely but boring at the same time so after your 20th date the enjoyment fades away.

So to sum up my two cents: Try to rather make a location independent income, stay a few months have a blast, leave for another place and then come back fully recharged again.

Post: #91

(04-30-2019 01:45 PM)superschalk Wrote:  I have met plenty of foreigners in Kiev from the forum here but also all kind of random visitors and expats. The happiest foreigners in Kiev are the ones who come here for a couple of weeks having a blast then go back to their home countries and come back a few weeks later for another blast.

The most miserable people I met in Kiev are the long term expats who have to live on an average salary which is high for Ukrainian standards but where you can´t spend the money in a way like us visitors do.

While Kiev is my favorite city in Europe and probably in the world I am only able to do three or four months stints. The city burns you out especially if your are partying a lot and going on a lot of dates. As much as I am happy to get here I am also always happy to leave back to the west. Don´t get me wrong the quality of life in Kiev can be great. Grocery stores especially Silpo have upgraded there offerings and quality big time over the past couple of years. But for me three months are enough then I need a break and you cant get these breaks if you have a fulltime job or are limited with your salary.

And last but not least the girls. It is great to be surrounded by many beautiful girls who are very often single. But even this fact becomes nothing special anymore after two months. I would even go as far and say it is getting tiring especially if you do not stick with one girl. Going on dates and doing the walking and talking routine can get very boring. The "good" Ukrainian girl is sweet and lovely but boring at the same time so after your 20th date the enjoyment fades away.

So to sum up my two cents: Try to rather make a location independent income, stay a few months have a blast, leave for another place and then come back fully recharged again.

This is a great post and advice. Totally subscribed.

Post: #92

Good mate of mine lived there 8 years. Balanced guy. Loved it. Not sure why it has to be black, or white.

Post: #93

(04-10-2019 12:27 PM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  Don't pick a location BECAUSE of women , it s a wrong calculation.

Generally yes. But I was in Croatia and oh damn, I mean, I did daygame and just couldn't stop approaching women. I couldn't stop, every time I finished talking to a girl I just saw another beautiful woman. Never happened to me anywhere else.

So, there are exceptions to this general rule.. I'd even go so far to absolutely pick at least once in your life a location just because of women, and find out how addictive daygame can become, IF you're at the right location (and in the right mood, of course)..

Post: #94

It's never because of women. They are a factor. But its the experience of living somwhere new. And the value this brings. Women are women. Yes Ukrainian and Russian very cute (currently banging a Russian 10 who lives in Estonia) but I'm not moving to Estonia for her. Or any woman. I've worked overseas many times and love the feeling of a "new normality" new streets. Shops. All the new experiences as I say. Not to bang women per se. But that's a component. Won't lie.

Post: #95

@wonderman exactly

Post: #96

Agreed that the best approach to long term survival in Ukraine is regular stints outside of the country. This comes naturally with winter for many people, although winter can be the best time to get laid. I actually don't like summer in Ukraine all that much, an exodus from Kiev and it can be very hot.

But yes of course those who come to Ukraine for holiday are happy, everyone is happy on holiday regardless of where they go

The real reason is often lack of resources, unless you work online there isn't a great deal of opportunities in Ukraine to make money. I know some guys who teach English but they work hard to make a decent living, although they can save a decent amount as they don't have time to go spending.

When I leave Ukraine I'm also happy to be back in the West.... for two days After that it's a downward spiral for me and I start clucking for Ukraine. If you travel outside of the country with a girl then it's a different story.

I chose to live in Ukraine because of the women, no regrets, I have other things going on in my life too.

Ukraine remains, for me at least, a fantastic country to live in.

Hot women
Bargain basement prices
Great Internet
Ukrainian people are decent and good natured.
More and more new restaurants
Cheap flights to many new places (double edged sword)
It's mostly a safe and free country.
The climate is good outside of winter.
Produce is great quality

The list goes on

Post: #97

(04-30-2019 11:07 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  @h1n1/ksbms
Ive got the house here. The car. A reasonably comfortable life. But it's not something that's out of reach (again) in a year or two experiencing a new adventure. Sure, doing CELTA and teaching in Russian or Ukraine isn't exactly leaving 3k in the bank at the end of a month. But the experience is the intangible. I'm mid 30s now. Routine here is set. I have as many euro jaunts as my annual leave will allow. But surely we can just strip all the philosophy away and put this down to rolling a dice on a new experience for a year or two? Come on guys were only here once!

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Post: #98

I’m of the notion that women shouldn’t be your sole source for moving somewhere. That being said, I look at it like this- I’m considering moving/retiring to Bulgaria (from USA) in part to find more pleasant women. If I fail in that regard, at least I’m retired. And I’m getting exposed to and learning another culture.

If I stay, I’m surrounded by terrible women and I’m getting my ass kicked at work. I don’t quite have enough investment income to retire in USA.

As stated above, we’re only here once. Why not?

Post: #99

(04-29-2019 05:46 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 08:20 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  I'm seriously thinking leaving UK and moving to Kiev. Sorry to hijack, but any of you lads living in Ukraine offer and advice on work? I'm a senior sales manager in UK and dont speak Russian or Ukrainian so I figure a sales role is out of the question. Possible even consider English as I do have a science phd so this may appeal to language schools. Anyone offer any help on this?

I would think very hard before doing this. That's not a bad job, and presumably you make decent money.

Even on a modest salary in UK, say 45K/year, there is a huge amount of quality in every day life that will be unavailable to you in Kiev.

Ukraine is somewhere you can get extremely rich if you know the moves, but otherwise you'll probably be in a job making £1,500 a month (if you're lucky) if you are going to the private sector and have no tremendous, stand out skill for which there is demand.

I would really consider very hard whether, with a PhD in STEM subject, making less than 2k a month as a teacher is really where you want to be.

Teaching English with a CELTA in a place like Kiev, say 18 teaching hours (full time, might not sound like it, but that is), you won't pull in north of 1000GBP. In fact you'd be doing well to get that. Prob be closer to 1000USD. Certainly dont go there with allusions beyond that, all you'll get is disappointment and lots of it...

Post: #100

(04-30-2019 04:38 PM)Dilated Wrote:  I’m of the notion that women shouldn’t be your sole source for moving somewhere. That being said, I look at it like this- I’m considering moving/retiring to Bulgaria (from USA) in part to find more pleasant women. If I fail in that regard, at least I’m retired. And I’m getting exposed to and learning another culture.

If I stay, I’m surrounded by terrible women and I’m getting my ass kicked at work. I don’t quite have enough investment income to retire in USA.

As stated above, we’re only here once. Why not?

This is a big undertaking bro. Bulgaria is the poorest country in EU, and loosing people year on year like none other. The whole of the rural areas are depopulating, and most young people that can are moving to western europe for work. Wages are stagnant there and have been for quite a while. In fact in terms of global numbers Bulgaria is loosing people quicker than any other country on the earth.

Quote:Bulgaria is projected to have the fastest-shrinking population in the world. It's already lost a fifth of its population since the 1990s. But what does this mean for those who remain?

Deep in the Bulgarian countryside, in the western province of Pernik, I make a rare discovery.

It's not Stoyan Evtimov's traditional embroidered woollen tunic that makes him unusual.

It's the fact he's a thirty-something living in a village. "All my friends that I grew up with here left long ago," he says.

Like many young Bulgarians, they moved to towns and cities in search of work.

Stoyan considers himself lucky to have employment in the mountain village of Peshtera, leading its folk-singing group and organising an annual music festival in an attempt to revive traditional marriage music, and the village.

Even so, he is finding village life unsustainable.

"It's impossible to find someone to marry here in the village, or the villages around, simply because there are no young people. The only chance for me to find someone is in the town," he says.

"It would be very sad and hard for me to leave the village, but I will have to do it at some point."

Bulgarian villages have been losing people for decades.

When the Communists took power after World War Two, they brought in collective farming and many agricultural workers found work in new factories.

After Communism fell, in 1989, and collective farms were broken up, that trend of leaving the countryside for the towns sharpened.

And many people don't stop there: they continue their search for work abroad.

In 1989, almost nine million people lived in Bulgaria. Now, it is a little over seven million. By 2050, that number is projected to be less than 5.5 million. By the end of the century, it could be close to half what it is now.

If you want to find a woman you probably need to be in A-tier bulgaria, or find a girl abroad who wants to go back, which might not be a horrible option. Wages are quite low, so I hope you get you money situation lined up.

The language is also a bitch, and I do think you would need to learn it if you are going to stay there a while. Also, some of the cities are extremely ugly and dirty there. Different idea of aesthetics than we have in the west.

An aesthetic you can expect to see a lot of in Bulgaria: