Post: #126

The best idea I have found on this long and painful discussion is that it is impossible to hide from evil influences. So a reliable man or woman is not someone who is sheltered from these influences, but rather someone who knows how to deal with them.

Who is a man or a woman that knows how to deal with bad influences and who knows how to resist temptation? One with spiritual dimension in their lives. Too many guys without proper experience in spirituality themselves confuse spirituality with blending in some cultural group - going to church or temple means nothing if it is just going together with family and culture. Such women can change if put in other environment.

If you want to gauge how reliable a person is and how faithful that person is to his ideals you must see if that person is doing any introspection towards these goals and how is that individual acting alone without environmental influences.

A relationship minded woman that chooses to have a family and be faithful to her husband despite temptations will fulfill the fallowing criteria:

- She will pray in her room alone and introspect her soul.
- She will read books on how to achieve that goal of family, just like you read books on game. After she has achieved that she will continue to read books on how to make marriage stronger and how to raise children better.
- She will go to church or temple at scheduled days even despite inconvenience, like busy schedule, bad weather, minor illness, long distance or whatever and she will do the required rites like confession with discipline, regularity and preparation.
- She will have past success in not wasting her energy and time in something that doesn't bring her closer to her goals so she will have low notch counts, she will waste little time with men who show no interest in relationships.
- She will have basic housewife skills like cleaning and cooking mastered already. She will not have skills that are clearly useless in LTR like pole dancing or twerking.
- She has the "happy gene" and can maintain her happiness and sanity and her direction towards her life goals alone for some time and is not dependent on constant outside input.

And yes, nothing is certain and there is never any warranty in life about what another person does. But the point is you cannot hope to find a "good NPC" or a sheltered innocent woman and lock her mind up. There are programs that can covert any NPC to any color and only player characters can be somewhat trusted. You must make sure that you woman is a player character and that her participation in your LTR is a conscious choice, not just going with the flow. Any conscious choice must be accompanied with temperance of the will and the resolve, which is achieved trough spiritual discipline, which can only be done by a person that upkeeps a spiritual dimension in their life. And you cannot be the one who teaches her this, she must do it on her own. But you must b e doing the same and strengthening her resolve by having your own.

Oh and if you hope to find a faithful girl among atheists, or think you can make a lasting family without help of God and praying to God yourself, then you must be fucked in the head, sorry.

Post: #127

The more I read stories about women like that, the more I understand why the muslims manage their women the way that they do.

Post: #128

There's so much I could say. It's a shame we can't all be in a room in person talking about this.

Post: #129

Great to see this thread and how it evolved.

Obviously all of us want to find that attractive virgin who stays loyal to us no matter what and dotes on us like a puppy. Part of our red pill journey is understanding that there are no guarantees outside of arranged marriages in the Middle East or India. Another realization is that the percentage of actual virgins are shrinking to almost nothing, and we're going to have to find out ways around it.

I used to be obsessed with virginity, poring over the statistics of successful marriages in relation to partner count. I slowly moved away from this as I got more confident in myself. When I think about my future wife, she is probably going to have had sex with one or two guys before me, and I'm ok with that. Yes, that guy will always have a piece of her heart, but she'll never have my full heart either, unless she picks up the shattered pieces left on the road by my past lovers.

A virgin would probably be amazing, but as long as she associates sex with love, had a minimal sexual past, and made a sincere effort in her past to make her relationships work, I can respect her and her imperfections.

I've been working on a couple prospects in the NY area, one is a 23 year old virgin Sunday school teacher, one is a 20 year old that got out of her first relationship. Should I keep talking to the virgin? She is already hitting the wall, extremely flakey, and quite possibly a weirdo for staying sexually inactive this long. By contrast, the 20 year old got into a relationship in high school, and the guy was a serial cheater. She made a mistake, but I didn't lose respect for her like some 28 year old sorority girl that passed around her pussy like a football to all of her fuckbuddies.

Part of the process of escaping this dilemma is to stop pedestalizing these broads like they are the second coming of Virgin Mary. At some point she was leaking another man's cum from her pussy and mouth, but they loved and respected each other and she thought he was going to be "the one." Unless the guy was Justin Bieber, I can provide enough value and own most of her heart with enough time. Oddly enough I'll be able to respect her exes as men who loved her and were an important parts of her life which lead her to realize that a guy like me was "the one."

Once the notch count gets in the 4-6 "relationship" range, you start worrying about how expendable she sees relationships and love and sex. One or two guys might not work out, a lot of men fuck up. If she starts hopping from relationship to relationship, there's a good chance she sees romance as a temporary toy to be discarded instead of a serious commitment. All women get jaded and lose their innocence after a certain number of failures.

I had a virgin once, a long time ago. Do you know why she was a virgin? Because we were both 15. She obsessed over me for a long time, until she slowly stopped. We broke up, and she turned into an unemployed, tattoed, colored hair, dog-filter selfie queen. I lost the infatuation with virgins and started paying more attention to conservative families, religion, and intelligence. I'd rather a girl with a 1-2 count, immigrant religious family who obsesses over me because of my relative value than a virgin who temporarily obsesses over me because of all the oxytocin that was released.

I see a lot of men wanting to "shelter" their women. That shit's retarded. You want to have conversations with her beforehand and make sure that she's smart enough to look at the degeneracy and say: "What the fuck?" You don't want to be the father that doesn't allow his children to watch cable TV or date and then they go to college and bang everyone in sight. She's gotta understand that there's always the option to become a fucking whore, it's just not the option that she ever wants to take.

Another thought that I've evolved with marriage: I don't expect it to last forever. It would be amazing if it did, but that's never happened to me before.

If anything has been consistent in my life, whether it's the family that raised me, friends I've laughed and cried with, women that have poured their hearts out to me: they all have entered and exited my life, oftentimes unceremoniously. I truly don't expect anyone in my life to stay for the long haul. I just wish for everyone who enters to serve a purpose, then we enjoy each other until the expiration date, and we go our separate ways. On a lot of levels it's sad, especially when I see people with lifelong family, spouses, and friends. On the other hand, it's given me the confidence of building an awesome life on my own, with no one supporting me. If anyone that I care about leaves me, I'm positive that within 365 days, I'll be a better man then the person they left because of my maniacal focus on self improvement.

I had a chick burn me really badly once, she dropped me and blocked me and never spoke to me again. I wanted her dead for a long time, but I still have tremendous respect for what she did to me. She forced me to become a man, to learn game, to make more money, socialize more, to think bigger. Although I'll never be the same after that incident, she sparked a killer instinct in me that I wouldn't give up for anything. The experience will always hurt me but it was incredible to see how much self growth I can make after someone puts me at rock bottom. Only a couple of years later I laugh at the thought of entertaining that broad again. I've made too much progress on all levels to even consider her.

The point that I'm trying to make with that girl, is that I will use this forum to vet women and mitigate my risk as much as possible, but if I marry and another broad fucks me over and steals half my income, I'll come out of it bigger and stronger. I'll fight the divorce to get every penny, take whatever I have and ball out in Thailand or Ukraine or Colombia, Roosh V style. I'll thank her for giving me her youth, bearing my children and move on to the next chapter of my life, post wage slavery. Of course, I will tell her my intentions of abandoning my children and skipping child support before we get married, just to get the divorce option permanently out of her head.

Obviously it would be ideal for the above not to happen, but I'm not counting on it. All I can count on is myself and the ability to rebound from rejection, the skill that I know that I possess after all of the abandonments that I've faced.

Post: #130

"I truly don't expect anyone in my life to stay for the long haul. "

Yes. That's the attitude. Expect the worst and hope for the best.

"I had a chick burn me really badly once, she dropped me and blocked me and never spoke to me again. I wanted her dead for a long time, but I still have tremendous respect for what she did to me."

Respect isn't the right word for my own memories of that kind of situation. Personal embarassment is more like it. You know you've grown when you look back and can identify all of the decisions you wouldn't have made if you knew then what you know now. It sort of innoculates you against being burned again.

"if I marry and another broad fucks me over and steals half my income, I'll come out of it bigger and stronger."

But that's an attitude I could never adopt. If I were younger again and open to marriage, I'd give up that dream because it's a fool's gamble with the divorce courts the way it is. You don't know what real emotional turmoil is like until you've gone through a divorce with kids.

Post: #131

(01-02-2019 10:14 AM)questor70 Wrote:  "if I marry and another broad fucks me over and steals half my income, I'll come out of it bigger and stronger."
But that's an attitude I could never adopt. If I were younger again and open to marriage, I'd give up that dream because it's a fool's gamble with the divorce courts the way it is. You don't know what real emotional turmoil is like until you've gone through a divorce with kids.

Courts are not as anti-man as some like to make out. Divorce with kids sucks hard... but life without kids is fucking pointless, so it's worth the risk long term.

We should not live our lives in fear, nor should we stick our heads in the sand believing it won't happen to us. Instead we should bravely move forward with our lives understanding the nature of women and fully prepared to fight that battle if it comes.

Post: #132

Great thread. I wrote about this subject years ago and find myself agreeing a bit with most of the liked posts in this thread. Scorpion's post on page 4 was brilliant.


http://www.returnofkings.com/12791/a-wom...ns-nothing

"Quite possibly my least favorite blue pill belief is the idea that a woman should be judged on her prior sexual experience. It leads men into a false sense of security whenever they believe she’s a “good girl.” Since she’s not a slut, the reasoning goes, she’s proven to be more trustworthy than a slut. I say nay; assume she is a bad woman until proven otherwise. Especially if she calls herself a virgin, assume guilt.

While I agree that “You can’t turn a whore into a housewife,” it is also true that some slutty housewives are not whores. Men should be less concerned with finding a chaste wife than finding a loyal one. Consider the following about virgins: Either she is a virgin because she is young, or she is a old prude who wants to use men with her sexuality. In the former case, she is but a young girl with plenty of time for her to turn into a slut, since all sluts are born virgins, or in the latter case, she is the worst type of relationship material possible as she is unable to open up to a man’s love, only using her sexuality as a means to some end, always placing her interests above any man’s."

[...]

"Likewise, a young virgin has not proven to be anything more than a pretty face, tits, and ass. Even if you’re the man to claim her cherry, she’s still nothing more than a new girl you’ve started banging. I’ll never forget how one of my close friends took the virginity of a 22 year old girl. He thought he had found “The One.” He could not get enough of the sex, and could not stop raving about her. But when he revealed he had to go get his Masters in another city, it was but only two weeks after he moved before she was sleeping with a different man.

My friend’s girl was not loyal. She valued herself over her man, and that’s why, even though she “gave” her virginity to him, she was nothing but a slut who had saved her virginity. Valuing virginity, which is inherent to a woman’s birth, is just as absurd as valuing a woman for anything else inherent to her birth, such as her eyeballs or hair. Certain crazy religions have worshiped a woman’s virginity as if it revealed an important truth about her character, when, in fact, they have it backwards: A woman of loyal character is more likely to only sleep with one man in her life, but women who’ve only slept with one man may still be a lying, manipulative, nagging, and combative battleaxe. It is necessary for a woman of good character to have slept with few men, but it is not a sufficient.

Blue pill men mistake the effect for the cause, and see sexual experience as an odometer to be measured, when in fact it is nothing more than one card from her hand. You do not have a complete picture and if she’s smart, you never will. So don’t be a dumbass who places value on a woman’s sexual history. Without any sort of context, virginity means nothing. By logical extension, if there’s no reason to value a virgin, then there’s no reason to value any woman who claims to have limited sexual experience.

And continuing further, I would go as far to say that a huge slut may yet still turn out to be better relationship material (never marriage material) than a virgin, since with the slut you know what you are getting while the virgin is someone who may put on false pretenses with her chastity."

Post: #133

Expecting a virgin well out of your teenage years is delusional. Expecting someone that's somewhat sane, feminine and pleasant to be around isn't.

Post: #134

And don't get me started about the Christian teases.

Post: #135

(01-02-2019 05:52 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 10:14 AM)questor70 Wrote:  "if I marry and another broad fucks me over and steals half my income, I'll come out of it bigger and stronger."
But that's an attitude I could never adopt. If I were younger again and open to marriage, I'd give up that dream because it's a fool's gamble with the divorce courts the way it is. You don't know what real emotional turmoil is like until you've gone through a divorce with kids.

Courts are not as anti-man as some like to make out. Divorce with kids sucks hard... but life without kids is fucking pointless, so it's worth the risk long term.

We should not live our lives in fear, nor should we stick our heads in the sand believing it won't happen to us. Instead we should bravely move forward with our lives understanding the nature of women and fully prepared to fight that battle if it comes.

Ok great so if I find love with a woman I share values with and we share mutual attraction/bond and want to spend our lives together, I shouldn't be afraid to marry and have kids with her, gotcha!

Post: #136

(03-16-2019 06:16 AM)Psygnosis89 Wrote:  Expecting a virgin well out of your teenage years is delusional. Expecting someone that's somewhat sane, feminine and pleasant to be around isn't.

Found a cute one few months ago she just turned 18 and I was 25 and I took her virginity it's still possible but yes it's hard and rare to find.

Not sure if I could have done it I was 30 thought.

Post: #137

(12-29-2018 10:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Marrying a virgin is not a guarantee that your marriage will work out. Unless you know for a fact that your marriage prospect has been tempted by degeneracy and resisted, you may still get burned like this man.



What's interesting is the body language of the daughter. She is facing away from the mother. She knows mommy destroyed the family.

In spite of this case, I rather settle down with a virgin than a girl who has been with men. A possible ideal is a girl who made a couple "mistakes" and realized she does not want the promiscuous lifestyle. At some point, a girl has to DECIDE to be a good woman. She must consciously resist the cock carousel.

So, was this guys A game not strong enough ? He looked like a dweeb in his before picture and his after picture too. Slouchy demeanor, hunched over. Not sure, but I think that has something to do with it.

Post: #138

(12-29-2018 10:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  What's interesting is the body language of the daughter. She is facing away from the mother. She knows mommy destroyed the family.

This is a pretty critical observation.
While hubby may be beta or just plain overwhelmed by the degenerate cultural Marxism bombarding the west, I'm quite sure his wife's relationship with her father sucks. The daughters body language points to an age-old adage - only fathers can save their children, mothers can only create them.

Post: #139

(12-31-2018 02:01 AM)MongolianAbroad Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 11:09 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(12-30-2018 08:56 AM)RawGod Wrote:  I think the obsession with virgins is a protective measure so that we can continue to hold on to the idea that there is a perfect, unspoiled girl out there - or there should be but this degenerate society prevents her from staying "pure". There are no perfect women out there, virgin or not. Women are not spoiled by losing their virginity. It's all in your head.

I think it has its basis in biology, like women's preference for height. The reason I think this is because men's preference for virgins seems to cross cultural and religious lines, just like women's preference for height (and resources/money, for that matter).

The question is why. It's probably a protective measure on the part of men to assure a better life for the offspring. Women who have been with a lot of men are more likely to be a flight risk and not stick around, therefore damaging the lives of the kids.

Statistics on divorce bear this out. The more partners a woman has, the more likely divorce is. Below are some sources for this info. Even the commies at the Atlantic seem to agree.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archi...ss/573493/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic...VORCE.html

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/09/...bad-wives/

Right. Also, if you marry a virgin, you'll always be the best sex she's ever had, the most handsome man she's ever been with. With a low N count girl, depending on your SMV, you can still be #1.

Let's say she's had 10 to 20 sexual partners or more. Well, one dude was more adventurous than you, another was taller, another was smarter, another had a bigger dick, another had a smaller, more comfortable dick that didn't require as much lube, another had a bigger wallet, another was more serious, another was more nonchalant, another had better hair, another was more boyish-looking, another was more manly-looking, another was more well-spoken, another was more the silent type, another had a better ass, another liked to go down on her for hours, another had better legs, another was more sociable, another had better arms, another had a better smile, another had better teeth, another had nicer eyes, another had a better jaw, another was more into the things she's into, another went along with her family more, another stood up to her family more, another was better at sex, etc. It never ends, the point is you'll always come up short in one area or another.

With a virgin, you are always #1 in every single sphere.

Why be #2, #3, #4, #10, #20, #30, #40 in the various spheres she'll be assessing you by. So that you have the privilege of having to try harder every single day to be her very own perfect man that no one can be?

It's absurd. F*** that noise.

Improve yourself, by all means, but get a low N count girl and make your life less of a headache, being with a woman and raising a family is a challenge in and of itself without having 40 other dicks she's had close and personal experience with cluttering up her mindspace.

You've got to be a masochist to be into that.

"Just be better than every guy at everything and you'll be fine." Sounds good, dude, have at it, take the high N count girl, be my guest, I'm not interested in that noise.

Also, keep in mind that being "better than every dude at everything" is impossible. Why? Because let's say you're more distant than every other dude she's been with, so she's into that about you. Well on Monday she wants a caring and kind dude. Guess what, Bob, contestant #17, was better than you at that. Time for texting time with Bob. Let's say you spend a lot of time every day at the gym. Well on Tuesday she wants someone that isn't away from her so much. Ed, contestant # 10, was into staying home and Netflixing with her and smoking joints. Time for Facebook time with Ed. Then it's Wednesday and she wants someone that's into being a foodie. But you've got your gym diet/regimen to maintain. Oh, what about Johnny, contestant #13? Time for Snapchat time with Johnny.

You could be a well off businessman with game and there will still be something her drug dealing ex can give her that you can't. Or vice versa, you could be a drug dealing guy with game and there will still be something her businessman ex can give her that you can't.

The point is there's no way to be the best man at everything, and even if there was a way to be the best at everything, you still couldn't be that because "the best" is fluid. Women are crazy enough to want completely opposing values in the same guy on different days of the week.

If you want to be with a woman that's easy to be around, aim for one with the lowest N count you can get and that has the happy gene.

Perfect description of how women are damaged by each new cock. All I would add is that a girl with only a few notches can still view you as the best man ever if you have worked hard with self-improvement. So not all is lost if the girl is not a virgin; a young girl with the older man works because the older man can still impress her compared to 99% of her experiences with other men, especially her former boyfriends.

But once that notch count starts to go beyond 5, you'll never stop hearing from her how prior boyfriend X did so and so for her while you do not, etc, and dealing with her baggage is love destroying.

This is also why younger women are far easier to date than older women. They are hotter and less work. Why the hell would a man want to date older women given their biology?

Post: #140

^^ The problem is, Samseau, younger doesn't mean lower notch count at all...

I only date 18-20 years old girls. That said, I'm in Paris, but still ALL of the girls I went out with started having sex at 13-14. Let that sink in. And a lot of these girls are not from Paris.

I was kinda shocked at first but after the 5th time I just kinda try not to think about it anymore. These are not your slut face girls. These girls look so innocent even at 18+ they could easily pass for a teenager anytime. If you didn't sleep with them you would think they are all virgins... Actually one of my craziest lays was with this 19 yo chick with such an angelic face most people in my social circle thought she was a virgin. After she started riding me like tomorrow I asked the question. Bitch started sucking cock at 13 and she was already tired of being pumped and dumped at 19. Go figure.

Just how young you gotta go if your average 18 yo have more experience than you at 25 yo?

Now obviously you GTFO and tryna find some countries girls or someone more conservative, but as Samseau said above that's no guarantee she won't turn later on.

Post: #141

(01-02-2019 05:52 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  life without kids is fucking pointless

Living purely to procreate is sort of pointless, IMHO. I get that it's the default brain-strem motivator but I'd like to think we're higher order creatures than that. Make your own life worth living for its own sake.

Post: #142

(03-18-2019 12:00 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  ^^ The problem is, Samseau, younger doesn't mean lower notch count at all...

I only date 18-20 years old girls. That said, I'm in Paris, but still ALL of the girls I went out with started having sex at 13-14. Let that sink in. And a lot of these girls are not from Paris.

I was kinda shocked at first but after the 5th time I just kinda try not to think about it anymore. These are not your slut face girls. These girls look so innocent even at 18+ they could easily pass for a teenager anytime. If you didn't sleep with them you would think they are all virgins... Actually one of my craziest lays was with this 19 yo chick with such an angelic face most people in my social circle thought she was a virgin. After she started riding me like tomorrow I asked the question. Bitch started sucking cock at 13 and she was already tired of being pumped and dumped at 19. Go figure.

Just how young you gotta go if your average 18 yo have more experience than you at 25 yo?

Now obviously you GTFO and tryna find some countries girls or someone more conservative, but as Samseau said above that's no guarantee she won't turn later on.

It sucks that girls don't even wait till 16 to start having sex, but I'm not sure how that violates the younger = lower notch count rule...

Post: #143

I just went and checked her Instagram account for shits and grins. I will not repost any of it here, but she has pictures of her kids all over the place in between selfies and body shots. Tats all over her, maybe even more than before; boyfriend-of-the-month pics, some with snarky comments to the simp ex. Others show what great co-parents they both are. I wouldn't be surprised if the simp ex-husband hasn't seen any poon since getting dumped.

She's got the blue check mark and a quarter of a million followers of this shit show they call a life.

If they want to live that kind of a fucked up way, well whatever, but those kids will not turn out well from all of this exposure.