Post: #76

Anyone who denies the look factor is delusional . I mean the total package: your body, your hair cut, your facial expression and you style.
even if game by itself does magic for you, you will be much better with your look in place.

Post: #77

Lots of game denial here and in the online game threads. If game doesn't work how come it's possible to have incredible nights where every girl you approach likes you and you pull a winner, and other nights where rubbish won't even give you the time of day? You look the same, have the same status, etc. Game is very powerful and really good game can 100% have you punching above your weight.

And Corsega why don't you try and make your points without posting bitchy remarks about Gunwitch's looks.

Post: #78

(11-08-2018 02:19 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Lots of game denial here

There is no game denial here.

(11-08-2018 02:19 PM)Kieran Wrote:  And Corsega why don't you try and make your points without posting bitchy remarks about Gunwitch's looks.

My remarks were not meant to offend, but rather to illustrate the harsh truth about evolutionary biology, and how it can't be cheated in an efficient market (see: Hypergamy).

In a normal situation, I'd use a neutral example, but right in this thread we have an example at hand of someone who makes their living from selling guys pickup material, yet can't provide any proof to back up his personal claims about girls his material allegedly works on. Claims like this need to be called out.

As a side note, I find it troubling that it's impossible to have an honest conversation about someone's looks without someone taking offense. Guys should be more open to having their looks critiqued.

Post: #79

You keep going on about looks. Truth is that looks are only a small part of the whole package. On Tinder looks might be everything. Outside it is not.

When it comes to looks I have to be nuanced as well. You cannot help having bad genetics. But you can sure groom yourself. Take care of hygiene. Wear the right clothes.

But even that is not strictly necessary. The topic about 'the rat' I made demonstrates that. And even when you look like a fitness fashion model with perfect looks you can fail to get laid. Bad game is even harder to compensate for than bad looks.

It is also a bit unfair to compare a high quality picture of Roosh on his best to a guy with a picture made on a webcam or something. (I don't know this dude)

When girls look for sexual adventure they do not look for what is "socially acceptable". They do not look for a nice good guy. They look for a man who displays power, willingness to take risk and signs of preselection.

And now I am trying to summarize the Red Pill in a few sentences. A fools errand.

The player displays all these qualities. While the average guy tries to impress and negotiate sex using money or social status or whatever.

That is the whole point of Game.

I recommend reading the The Rational Male (a blog).

The player is THE exception. Because he has Game and uses it while everyone else does not. This is why the player gets laid like a boss. And everyone else gets scraps.

Post: #80

Kind of getting away from the thread purpose, although interestingly it has gone in the direction that I aluded before.

The idea that what 'game' means has changed a fair bit in recent years.
Mysterymethod had his 5 for 5 rule and believed that 'game' was all you need.

Even when I first started posting here only a few years back, people would be reprimanded for implying that looks even played a role in the outcome of a cold approach, and now interestingly, this is one of the more 'looks matter!' game forums that I read.

Game, it's products, the books etc now tend to promote 'game' as basically 'approach girls and see who's into you''. There's been a clear shift. No more routines and rules. ''What you say doesn't matter''! Get your inner game handles and approach girls! Escalate on those who are feeling you.

Someone mentioned 'the rational male' blog above.
On there, the guys actually do believe that you can be 120 years old with no arms and a lopsided face and still bang 100% of the hot teenagers you choose from 'game' alone. If you got rejected, your game simply wasn't good enough Don't blame your lack of legs and advanced years and odd looking face.
Well respected posted 'HavingABadDay' literally confirmed this recently when he was in discussion with someone on the blog.
(presumably he can bang 100% of the girls he wants!! How else could someone truly believe something!!? )

My view is definitely more along the lines of Mark Manson and so, in a sense, i'm sitting on the fence (that rhymed) He believes in the 'yes girls' 'no girls' and 'maybe girls', where 'no girls' are never gonna be into you no matter how much 'game' you have.

Namely, of course 'game' exists. Social skills count! for sure! But there ARE limits!!! As someone who wasn't blessed with great looks, i'd LOVE to believe that by simply saying the right lines and with good body language and charisma (game, and game alone) I could bang any girl I want until the day I die. I don't think that's the case, though. I've never seen (in real life or an infield with aparent 'pros') someone bang a hard 'no girl' from a cold approach. Maybe getting all PUA's to wear super realistic ugly latex masks to see how they do should be the next move

One way I think about it is that 'perfect game' might give you 2 more points max. If you're a 5, with amazing game, you are now a 7 (at your peak!) but if that 18 year old cheerleader only wants a 9+, you're out of luck!

I think theraionalmale is a bit dangerous in their beliefs with game in that you spend a lifetime looking for answers in the wrong places. ''What line should I have said?! I thought I passed the shit test using agree ad amplify theory, but I guess not!! Must read more''... ''Maybe my approach angle was off by a few degrees?!!'' when the true answer was that ''she just wasn't into, dude! In the same way that you aren't into Rosie O'Donnel''

Post: #81

Quote:The idea that what 'game' means has changed a fair bit in recent years.

It has not. It gets misunderstood. A lot.

Quote:Some mentioned 'the rational male' blog above.
On there, the guys actually do believe that you can be 120 years old with no arms and a lopsided face and still bang 100% of the hot teenagers you choose from 'game' alone.
Well respected posted 'HavingABadDay' literally confirmed this recently when he was in discusison with someone on the blog.
(presumably he can bang 100% of the girls he wants!! How else could someone truly believe something!!? Smile)

It is about what the author writes. Not about what some silly guy in the comments or elsewhere beliefs. Plenty people have a problem with The Red Pill. Do not forget both Roosh and Rollo are more or less founding fathers.

Quote:I could bang any girl I want

someone turn a hard 'no girl' from a cold approach.

Nobody claims such things. And if they do it be liars.

Quote:...lifetime looking for answers in the wrong places. ''What line should I have said?! I thought I passed the shit test using agree ad amplify theory, but I guess not!! Must read more''...

That is not what Game is about.

Again I try to compact too much information in only few sentences. Fools errand.

Post: #82

Frauding ass Neil Strauss was riding the all you need is game wave too before he married his over accessorized lower class polish wife. He's preaching game meanwhile the motherfucker has unfettered access all over Hollywood as an entertainment reporter. He didn't have looks but he sure as shit had money and status. Guys similar in appearance went crazy in the early 2000s when they discovered his frauding ass book The Game

Post: #83

Subterfuge that Cheerleader's 9+ standard will go out the window in the right situation. Let's say she's on holiday, her friend is upstairs getting banged, the guy's friend is with her and does and says the right things to get her a little horny, she feels like she won't be judged for it, etc. If you could see the guys some of these girls have banged in the past it would amaze us all.

You even get good looking straight women that fuck disgusting bulldykes and if that's not proof that game can overcome looks then I don't know what is.

And yeah there's a lot of people on this forum that seem to think they're ground breaking by talking about how lifestyle, status, and looks work with women. No shit. This is conventional thinking and nothing new. Game was so revolutionary because people found that the things they say and how they act can make women attracted to them where before they weren't, and that those things are far more powerful and can have a woman dripping wet and obsessing about some loser badboy with a cocky attitude, and feeling nothing for the doctor with money and a perfect body. The truth is we should all be working on ourselves as well as our game, but game works and can 100% get results with women that are out of one's league according to society's standards.

Post: #84

(11-08-2018 03:21 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Subterfuge that Cheerleader's 9+ standard will go out the window in the right situation. Let's say she's on holiday, her friend is upstairs getting banged, the guy's friend is with her and does and says the right things to get her a little horny, she feels like she won't be judged for it, etc. If you could see the guys some of these girls have banged in the past it would amaze us all.

You even get good looking straight women that fuck disgusting bulldykes and if that's not proof that game can overcome looks then I don't know what is.

And yeah there's a lot of people on this forum that seem to think they're ground breaking by talking about how lifestyle, status, and looks work with women. No shit. This is conventional thinking and nothing new. Game was so revolutionary because people found that the things they say and how they act can make women attracted to them where before they weren't, and that those things are far more powerful and can have a woman dripping wet and obsessing about some loser badboy with a cocky attitude, and feeling nothing for the doctor with money and a perfect body. The truth is we should all be working on ourselves as well as our game, but game works and can 100% get results with women that are out of one's league according to society's standards.

Not to piss on your post because I do consider you a good poster, but you basically described Social Circle and Timing in a nutshell. The game part is where the guy doesn't put his foot in his mouth (FAG) game

Post: #85

Good point, and thanks for the compliment. But do you not agree that you can turn a woman on through the things you say?

Post: #86

(11-08-2018 03:47 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Good point, and thanks for the compliment. But do you not agree that you can turn a woman on through the things you say?

100%. That's not even debatable and hopefully every man on this forum agrees with that idea to some extent

Post: #87

It is not called Red Pill for nothing.



Have to decide for yourself whether you take it or not.

Post: #88

(11-08-2018 03:47 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Good point, and thanks for the compliment. But do you not agree that you can turn a woman on through the things you say?

Of course.

But we're not talking about turning women on. We're talking about fucking women way out of one's league through nothing but technical (mostly verbal) Game from a daygame approach. Not fucking your friend's girl's friend while she's upstairs.

(11-08-2018 03:21 PM)Kieran Wrote:  but game works and can 100% get results with women that are out of one's league according to society's standards.

I'll keep reiterating: where's the proof?

Post: #89

Believes you can turn women on with words but calls game "social circle" and "luck (timing)"

Not insulting anyone but its borderline cognitive dissonance.

Or do you mean only facially attractive guys can turn on women with words?

You ever been eating and someone brought up shitting, vomit, etc and you could feel your appetite go away so you yell for them to stop talking about that while you eat. Did it matter if that person was good looking or not? No, it effected your appetite the same.

Thats game. Accept the opposite lol.

Post: #90

(11-08-2018 04:22 PM)tr1cky Wrote:  Believes you can turn women on with words but calls game "social circle" and "luck (timing)"

Let's jump back to the proposed situation:

"[9+ is] on holiday, her friend is upstairs getting banged, the guy's friend is with her and does and says the right things to get her a little horny, she feels like she won't be judged for it, etc."

Game enabled the bang to happen, but social circle/social proof enabled Game to happen.

To illustrate, imagine the following situation:

9+ is on holiday, Ugly McUglerson approaches her in the street with the plan to do/say a bunch of things that are supposed to get her horny.

The second situation is what we're talking about. Cold approach. The guy doesn't even get the chance.

Post: #91

Corsega that was just an example to show how the cheerleader's 9+ standards will go out the window in the right circumstances. Women can be turned on with words following on from cold approaches just the same with no social circle / social proof. All the man needs to do is to be a fun enough person to be around that she wants to be around him long enough for him to convey his personality, manage logistics to create a situation where sex can happen, and then he can get her turned on with what he is saying (stuff like Juggler's sexual barriers).

Post: #92

Thread is completely derailed. How about post people you recommend, why you recommend them, and leave that other stuff for PMs?

Post: #93

(11-03-2018 06:33 PM)EmpireState Wrote:  Ok, at risk of turning this into one giant advertising thread, who has the best most relevant PUA material out there right now?

Bonus points if this material was made in the last several years and if it caters to intermediates who know how to get laid regularly but want to bang hotter chicks (the 9's and up).

Obviously roosh has a lot of great stuff, but besides roosh, who are the modern masters of game I need to learn from?

Im of the camp that believes the fundamentals dont change So with that...

AMS- IMo this dude reminds me of PlayerSupreme. That no nonsense battle tested approach coupled with showing proof of game. They both feel that women do the choosing. AMS is more appealing to younger dudes though because he's...younger , and comes across more as that cool big brother or friend instead of that older uncle or father figure

Mode One -Alan Roger Curie. If you have balls and don't mind up front rejection this all you need IMO. Problem is that most dudes dont have that level of confidence out the box...

Assanova- On the other end of the the spectrum, this dude is great in the way he details the physical and what it takes for woman to approach you. Awesome simplified game for the good looking players out there

The Kidd- He's been around for a while, and Player supreme admitted to incorporating a lot of his game. His philosophical approach to game is top notch. I lack the words to adequately describe, if you don't know about him you need to D.Y.O.R.

Post: #94

I would really like to hear others voice their opinions. There are several members who have proved their reputation here on the forum, I want them to interject.

Gunwitch, honestly bro, your post is haphazard, I don’t understand the points you are trying to communicate. And the above poster was right, you lied about being a professional gambler and plastic surgeon... how is there pride in knowing you only got the girl by lying to her... that is not game, that’s just messed up. And one thing for sure, she won’t be a regular with that approach. Your also not going to have the trust of female friends, and social circle then goes out the window.

Post: #95

(11-08-2018 02:02 PM)corsega Wrote:  Imagine you're a woman. Imagine one of these guys is going to shoot their load into you. Which do you choose?



or

Obviously Roosh, i'm not gonna go fuck myself....

Women thoroughly enjoy fucking me. Because they have feelings around me, they get an intense experience from me, and I create opportunity for them to be completely sexually open in private without judgement. That's game. I don't own their eyeballs with my abs and rock their body with my porn sex man.

Chicks aren't at home playing with their clit to pictures of mens faces and abs!

Men who think its all looks are living in a porn generated fantasy of women lusting after mens bodies. Like 90% of women don't work that way. Guestimate like 10% DO though, so it confuses the shit out of most men.

On the lying thing. THAT IS part of verbal game. It is part of her social frame, her actual intellectual decision making to fuck you that is. David D was WAY wrong on that one, attraction CAN and a lot of times will be a fuckin choice.

99.99% of hot I dunno lets say newscaster women/a fairly classy/higher end job with super hot women. Lets say 99.99% of them aren't gonna fuck THE most emotionally stimulating, and sexually arousing man they've ever met, if hes a fuckin tatted up wanna be gang member who can't read. There's somethin wrong with that other 1 in 10,000 that will haha.

If you aren't willing to full blown lie about a LOT of things you aren't going full potential for cold approach pickup. So you can't even evaluate if looks are factoring in or not. I've been doing this shit for almost 20 years, I want results (her twitching and moaning underneath me, NOT caring that i'm not whatever her "type" is) fuck ethics.

Edit: I mean are you really gonna tell a chick you work at burger king if you do? Maybe better, if you really can't handle her fucking you without her "wanting you for you", better to side step "what do you do?" with talking about how you want to turn your favorite hobby in to a business. OR JUST LIE! Just sayin, I mean what's with this honesty thing in the pickup community these days, jeeeshus.


Gun

Post: #96

I don’t know gunwitch and never heard of him before .
But a lot of forum members rationalize lying about their age by saying age became a factor due to social conditioning and feminist .
With the same logic , Then calling out gunwitch on his lies is double standard.

Post: #97

Gun.

Thanks for the reply, much respect to you for it! I agree David D is off, I think he is more of a marketer than a gamer... a lot in the biz are...

Anyone check out Howie Reich from Quara??

I really like him, he has a very realistic multidimensional approach, and is heavy on self improvement, he also goes in depth on some areas such as voice, posture, and etc more than, well. Maybe anyone. My views line up with his nearly 100 percent. Check him out. Also, so many game Gurus are marketing gurus and do the same thing with their products they due with game... make their precived value more than it is....

Post: #98

(11-08-2018 09:31 PM)Anchor Man Wrote:  I don’t know gunwitch and never heard of him before .
But a lot of forum members rationalize lying about their age by saying age became a factor due to social conditioning and feminist .
With the same logic , Then calling out gunwitch on his lies is double standard.

Exactly. Plus in addition to that it isn't proper balls to the wall evaluation of whats potentially effective.

"leave her better than you found her", "managing expectations" etc etc etc are all forms to me of like rules in MMA/UFC. Can't kick someone in the face on the ground? That's like HALF of street fighting/human hand to hand combat! So the contests are pretty much invalid vs the fighters true potential.

I'm not saying if I could kick him in the face with my biker boots on the ground I'd beat up Conner Mccgregor haha. Some other comparable top fighter might have though several different times. But for our purposes calling me out as ugly, then saying lying about status is unethical, when your claim is that looks and status are all that matter, then saying game doesn't work, when it DOES by in part lying about your social status, is an absurd leap of just wanting to be right that you're losing yourself in the role.

Regardless of all that, this is why people need to test shit themselves. I provide more proof/honesty than most. Audio of students getting my material working. I've actually met real people from the pickup community. There's infield footage of me, not just the pic. I've had chicks i'm fucking on my podcast and interviewed them, played games with them.

I mean I get it, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. But on the same token if you are trying to actually learn this shit, you gotta be in field working the materials like a sport. This isn't some epiphany game where you just hear or see the right thing and go "AHA I get women now!".

This is basically a performance art that you have to repetitive train and get good at pulling off. You have to get keenly UNAWARE of your sexual sub-communication, to the point it's totally natural as you focus in on her emotions and experiences and control them through well practiced technicals you know like the back of your hand.

Which goes all the way back to the point of the thread, "what do you guys like in 2018 for pickup materials", which is a good question of "whats good to actually work in field". Vs the derailing of "this guys ugly and won't give me x y and z to convince me to be interested in cold approach pickup". Which I gave quite a bit there and it was totally ignored.

Edit: By the way that chick in the pic I would say is eye of the beholder 7-10, but I mean socially plus her looks if she has any class/brains that's like a socially acceptable 10 dude! if a guy said he was fucking a 10 and brought her to my house, i'd go "ok 8.5 to me, but totally could be his 10 sure! When I say "dime" I mean she could do porn and not just get booked for anal and gangbang scenes. All subjective but basically id say a 10 (for bragging purposes sight unseen) is she maybe has a flaw not multiple flaws.

As to the other stuff,

I just wonder where you are coming from specific Corsega?

First I wonder if you might think of yourself as sort of being an investigator or for lack of a better word journalist on this topic? Which is totally cool! I'm not being sarcastic. It'd be a fairly fresh take on all of this. No one has really objectively looked at all of this. All the hate sites were just trolls who hated puas. Neils book was just a fluff piece about how he turned into a male feminist/pua media apologist. No one really takes a hard look at everything objectively.

I just don't know if you are trying to be mean and hurt peoples feelings as a second option? If so, ughh. Some of that maybe comes from people coming at you shitty. Tit for tat of the net and all. A piece of advice though from a long time forum user/guru/target, take each person as you find them man. Don't lose yourself in a role or you become the "easily trollable Gunwitch" haha who would call people names and shit over little black letters on a screen. See I just influenced you, I made you realize these are little black letters on a screen. You wouldn't have if I didn't call attention t it, and if I hand't called attention to having done it.... That's the most basic of covert influence, there are MUCH MUCH more powerful techniques like that to get in a chicks head! Game works. But anyway maybe people are rude and shitty toward you so you get them first. I ain't got nothin against you though, and you seemed to have a lot against me without ever interacting with me. Which tells me you are in a "state" about all of this not about me specific. I learned a long time ago not to do that just for my own piece of mind, and found I was a more persuasive via text when I focused on the person not on what I felt like. Sort of like game.

As a third option,

Do you hate cold approaching and or are scared of it and want to keep it from seeping in to your mind as much as possible, so you can just discount it? If that's the case I wouldn't post in forums and blog and all, I would just work on improving myself and doing social circle game or whatever. More time effective than to come in here and argue it and confront it and think about it all the time. If you just hate it, think its stupid or whatever, just drop the cognitive dissonance about it and leave forums and blogs about it.

I'm really asking here, I don't know where you're coming from, i've never seen you or come on this forum so I don't know your story/why you are involved in this/something you seem to discount as a whole.


Gun

Post: #99

(11-08-2018 08:09 PM)BeardedMastodon Wrote:  I would really like to hear others voice their opinions. There are several members who have proved their reputation here on the forum, I want them to interject.

Gunwitch, honestly bro, your post is haphazard, I don’t understand the points you are trying to communicate. And the above poster was right, you lied about being a professional gambler and plastic surgeon... how is there pride in knowing you only got the girl by lying to her... that is not game, that’s just messed up. And one thing for sure, she won’t be a regular with that approach. Your also not going to have the trust of female friends, and social circle then goes out the window.

Dude you sound ridiculous. You really just want everyone to play the game your way but you selfishly hide your intentions under the guise of morality.For starters let me say I really do enjoy female company and I do actually respect women, BUT Fuck these bitches!!! The game is played no holds barred buddy boy and so long as you aren't deceiving a friend, a family member, a colleague, an associate or someone that you aren't trying see romantically who cares. Lie all you want. Lie for shits and giggles. IF you make 200k a year one night lie and say you're a janitor. Who cares? These women aren't permanent fixtures of your life. When it comes time to settle down rein it in and all will be well. I lie about being a world traveler yet I've only been to 3 countries. Life lies to us all the time fella. I have great friends, family and a decent career me lying to to women is completely separate from how I honor and respect my friends or even strangers. Women as much as I love them are exempt from this privilege.

Continue doing your thing Gun!!!

Post: #100

(11-08-2018 12:22 PM)BadBoyGamer Wrote:  @ Cortega

Quote:I was raising my eyebrows at the claim of an ugly guy punching far above his weight.

Plenty of examples. You just have trouble believing it. I even posted a whole topic about it.

/thread-71038.html

Quote:if you actually go up and ask these couples how they met (I often do, out of curiosity), it's all social circle, status, money, or, most frequently, a combination of the three.

Most people meet by social circle. Cold approach is the exception.

The player is the exception.

Quote:An ugly guy is not talking his way into prime pussy through cold approach.

This is the whole point of Game and The Red Pill.

That's what i'm getting here. I don't understand if you think, incorrectly, that cold approach is all looks matching (which it isn't there are LOTS of technicals that make you leapfrog your "competition" who never show up) why just assault it and assault it, and not just do your own thing?

I mean I don't go on mgtow or incel forums and go "you people are fuckin dumb, quit being pussies and go talk to some women", because I got my own thing going, that would just be a waste of mental energy to me trolling them/debating them/whatever the case even speaking to them.


Gun