Post: #26

(11-02-2018 09:52 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I wish there was some kind of faggy way to wear a poppy such that you were demonstrating support for servicemen but not for the shitty bullshit wars foisted on them.

Wearing the poppy doesn't mean you support the wars, it's purely about remembrance of all servicemen and women in how they carried out their duty and served the Commonwealth/Empire with pride so we could grow up in the better world we're in today (admittedly there are negatives but can't win them all).

Post: #27

(11-02-2018 04:54 PM)eljeffster Wrote:  

(11-02-2018 10:53 AM)Hypno Wrote:  In the U.S., following the Viet Nam war, it was unpopular to support the military. That only changed after Reagan.

(The commonwealth countries were not in viet nam like the U.S. was with the draft, so its a different history)

Now, the miliatary pays the NFL for propoganda and its unpopular to not support the military. There is a great Curb Your Enthusiasm episode last season about this "Thank you for your service".

Trump is going to make the military popular and great again with the Space Force.

I think you misunderstood my comment.

When the vets came back from Nam, they were booed and considered child killers. That is why they are a protected class under federal law for affirmative action, etc.

Having toys like guns or GI Joe was a little controversial in the 70s.

Reagan was elected in 80, and things got better.

Gulf War I was around 91, things got better.

Gulf War II, the U.S. started actively promoting the military with propoganda. Fly overs at football games. Stuff like that. It was money well spent, but it was propoganda nonetheless. In the early 2000s, you started to see camo as a fashion accessory, whereas the only people who wore military garb in the 70s were deranged (Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver).

Today, if a serviceman walks through an airport in uniform they are applauded. So its hard to say the image can be improved.

Post: #28

(11-02-2018 10:53 AM)Hypno Wrote:  In the U.S., following the Viet Nam war, it was unpopular to support the military. That only changed after Reagan.

(The commonwealth countries were not in viet nam like the U.S. was with the draft, so its a different history)

Now, the miliatary pays the NFL for propoganda and its unpopular to not support the military. There is a great Curb Your Enthusiasm episode last season about this "Thank you for your service".

Get out of here with that shit, mate.

We Australians lost 521 casualties in the name of that "All the Way with LBJ" bullshit. New Zealand lost 37, I believe.

Far more Australian Viet vets succumbed to suicide than were lost in action. I understand that we take far better care of our veterans in general among the Western world (at the governmental level at least), but the reception they received upon returning home, even from officialdom, was nothing short of appalling. Viet vets were told by WW2 and Korean War veterans "Come back when you've fought a real war" upon attempting to enter an RSL premises (Returned and Services League, our veterans support association).

Furthermore, far more countries (Thailand, South Korea, Taiwan) gave troops to the Vietnam War, and most casualties were Vietnamese. Stop thinking that that war was some all-American oriental excursion.

Post: #29

(11-03-2018 05:12 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(11-02-2018 10:53 AM)Hypno Wrote:  In the U.S., following the Viet Nam war, it was unpopular to support the military. That only changed after Reagan.

(The commonwealth countries were not in viet nam like the U.S. was with the draft, so its a different history)

Now, the miliatary pays the NFL for propoganda and its unpopular to not support the military. There is a great Curb Your Enthusiasm episode last season about this "Thank you for your service".

Get out of here with that shit, mate.

We Australians lost 521 casualties in the name of that "All the Way with LBJ" bullshit. New Zealand lost 37, I believe.

Far more Australian Viet vets succumbed to suicide than were lost in action. I understand that we take far better care of our veterans in general among the Western world (at the governmental level at least), but the reception they received upon returning home, even from officialdom, was nothing short of appalling. Viet vets were told by WW2 and Korean War veterans "Come back when you've fought a real war" upon attempting to enter an RSL premises (Returned and Services League, our veterans support association).

Furthermore, far more countries (Thailand, South Korea, Taiwan) gave troops to the Vietnam War, and most casualties were Vietnamese. Stop thinking that that war was some all-American oriental excursion.

And the 30 thousand Canadians that served in Vietnam with US forces plus all the Brits that joined ANZAC Forces.
Brits also had exchange officers with Australian forces in secret.
All Brit migrant males to Oz had to register for Conscription.

We fought in Vietnam for over 10 years

Post: #30

I'm going to wear a poppy just to annoy the left. In fact, the poppy was the reason Tommy Robinson started the EDL, because a load of Muslims in Luton were burning them. Haha, check this shit out from the repugnant Yasmin Albihai-Brown (Brits will know who she is).

The far right has weaponised the poppy. Let’s reclaim it, in memory of our troops from around the world

Quote:Tommy Robinson is a far-right racist, a convicted fraudster and violent thug. A gathering of his supporters attacked police officers in central London this summer. And as we come up to Remembrance day, once again he and his extremist followers have appropriated and propagandised the poppy. Robinson wore one as he addressed supporters outside the Old Bailey last week, and he was arrested in 2011 outside the Fifa headquarters as he protested their move to ban the symbol from football shirts.

Such white nationalists seem to believe that first, White Britons (and only white Britons) won the two world wars; and second, that those valiant soldiers were betrayed by politicians who allowed immigrants to flood in and ravage old Blighty. I have interviewed a number of EDL members who hold these views.

He could probably sue her for slander, since he isn't a white nationalist. Well, he's white, and a nationalist, she could probably claim.

Also, why do leftists always tell massive and ridiculously unbelievable lies about how they 'educate' the plebs? I've seen it so often. Such as this:

Quote:Just last week, a red-faced white man stopped me in a supermarket and told me he hated my guts: “We fought two world wars for our people. Not for you bloody Muslims to take over our country.”

“Well,” I said calmly, “Let me educate you, sir. Muslims fought with your soldiers in both wars. And died. We didn’t fight for this country so people like you could turn Britain into a white and unpleasant land.” Mr Red Face shuffled off grumbling. And yes, he was wearing a poppy.

It's hilarious.

Post: #31

As an aside, that James O'Brian guy winds me up, a lot. He's a pompous fucking cunt who thinks he's far smarter than he actually is. He's Piers Morgan-level intelligence, a high-functioning NPC essentially. Like most media types.

Post: #32

(11-03-2018 10:05 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

Quote:“Well,” I said calmly, “Let me educate you, sir. Muslims fought with your soldiers in both wars. And died. We didn’t fight for this country so people like you could turn Britain into a white and unpleasant land.” Mr Red Face shuffled off grumbling. And yes, he was wearing a poppy.

It's hilarious.

Fought with? In the same way the Chinese fought with Australians in Korea, the Germans fought with the British on the Nomandy Beaches, and Poles fought with the Turks at the gates of Vienna?

Jokes aside, the ultra-left Guardian has an article on it. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/n...-world-war
It seems the majority were nominally allied soldiers in non-active theatres.

Post: #33

I don't wear one personally because of the experience of a serving family member. I have no wish to give money to the British Legion (the charity behind the poppy appeal), but have absolutely no problem with anyone else doing so. I donate to other veterans' charities instead and wear alternative symbols to show my respect for those who have been lost.

I do think it's great to see so many kids and young people queuing to buy poppies, as at least it shows that they're remembering veterans, rather than the crop of spoilt cunts (usually infected by university thinking) who'll spit at our soldiers. I just don't want to support that particular charity; those who had a different experience must of course donate if they wish to.

Post: #34

(11-03-2018 12:43 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(11-02-2018 07:39 AM)Richard Turpin Wrote:  

(11-02-2018 07:27 AM)Hypno Wrote:  As a kid, I can remember the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) giving these out in exchange for a donation. My grandparents wore them. But this tradition died out in the late 70s in the U.S., too many wars I guess.

Doesn't it date to WWI, rather than WWII?

I must admit to being surprised that it's not big in the US. Somehow, I assumed that it was worldwide but it seems to be more of a British Commonwealth thing (UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc).

I think it's now marketed as remembering the dead in all wars, but yeah, it originally stemmed from Flanders Fields in WW1.

They always cost me a fortune, cos I keep losing them (just held on with a little pin) and end up buying loads every year.

I grew up in DC during the 80s and never saw those poppies.

The first time that I ever saw them was when I did my undergrad in Ontario, Canada in the mid 90s.

I always assumed that it was a Commenwealth "Flanders Field" thing.

It makes me sad that America once did this too but doesn't anymore.

Maybe they still do it in Kansas City:



One of America's most underrated pieces of art.

Seriously, those halls on the sides are extraordinary. The museum in the base is incredible too.

It turns out that wearing the poppy started in the USA.

No, Really.

I wonder why it fell out of fashion but continues on in the commonwealth.

Post: #35

I dont wear a poppy and will never do. My reason for that being is this;

If those men were alive today to see Britain and Europe I truly believe they, the Germans, Brits, French, Dutch, Italians, Spaniards, the Canadians and Americans would join forces to flush the scum from the houses of power and the banksters along with them.

The screeching harpies go on about how these men fought for our freedom but at the same time call you a racist for saying some cultures are barbaric and we can not allow them to get inside our countries.

Look at the old pictures where thousands of men march off to the wars. Not a single one of them could have imagined Britain being in its current state and whats more, that it couldn't quite figure out why shit has gone down hill from there and even more since in the past 25 years.

I refuse to honour a generation of dead who would be disgusted and ashamed at what they would see.

Post: #36

(11-03-2018 04:42 AM)Hypno Wrote:  Today, if a serviceman walks through an airport in uniform they are applauded. So its hard to say the image can be improved.

Not in Canada unfortunately. This country doesn't give a rats dirty ass about it's servicemen. Political dickheads use us as vote getting pawns and that's it. 25 years, a couple tours of duty, firefights and mine fields and nobody fucking cares. It eats me up thinking about it.

Except from Nov 1st to 11th of course. Then everyone wears a poppy lest they look bad in front of their fucked up self aggrandizing friends, who also don't give a rats ass about their servicemen. *end rant*

Post: #37

Not sure I quite catch your logic their Foolsgo1d, but each to his own.

To me, it's remembering the sacrifices given by men who were conscripted and did their duty. Take politics out of it, whether you think the wars were justified or that it was all in vain, these were men who had no choice but to go and serve. There isn't an English family around who doesn't have a member who was deeply affected by WW1/WW2.

I didn't know that the poppies existed elsewhere, but it's good to see that they do. I assume it's a British heritage/Commonwealth thing.

Post: #38

Many of my family members served in the British Armed Forces with a few of them dying in the trenches in WW1, one of them a 16 year old relative who died at Ypres. WW1 was a shocking waste of young, working class men for a war that was for the benefit of the ruling aristocratic and banking elites who stood to gain should the conflict turn out in their favour.

I would never wear a poppy as for me it is a symbol of British imperialism but I would never disrespect anyone who wore one. To each to their own. Every person has their own way to remember the dead. Me, I went back to a graveyard in northern Belgium a few years back on a freezing cold day and laid a wreath in memory of a relative whom I never saw, cursing the bankers and the inbred, parasitic aristocrats who used him and countless others to settle a petty family squabble, and for what, over some bruised egos. Fuck them.

Post: #39

When I was a kid in Toronto in the '70's, wearing a poppy was just something you did for the week or so around 11/11. We always had something going on at school and stood for a moment of silence at 11:00.

Fast forward and I joined the army reserves when I turned 18. My unit was based out of Fort York and we had to ride the Bathurst streetcar. Bathurst & Queen and thereabouts has a lot of "colourful" people around midnight on a Friday evening. In the late '80's we were allowed to wear combat fatigues to and from training. I can only recall two incidents. One was a drunken Indian who pestered a buddy and I saying "Why are you oppressing my people?" and followed us around the subway. I think that was during Oka, so 1990. Desert Shield was at the same time and then Desert Storm came in early 1991. A older, drunken (white) guy sat down beside me and asked "what does your uniform mean?" I can't remember my response but a heartbeat later some skinny, smelly hippy starts chanting "NO BLOOD FOR OIL!" and half the passengers joined in.

Within a few years the order came down that we were not allowed to wear combats in public (apparently it scared the civilians or something).

The. Canadian military really took a PR hit in 1993 with the Somalia Affair and the disbanding of the Airborne Regiment in 1995. From what I could tell, public perception improved after 9/11 and we had troops in Afghanistan.

This O'Brien clown has a pretty twisted view. Conservatives/Republicans/Tories generally have a lot more respect for the military than Liberals/Democrats. There was a time where a majority if serving officers were actually Democrats but it hasn't been that way in decades.

Just as a parting comment, it seemed that every year there was a story about some fucker trying to steal the poppy money and then getting his ass kicked by the 80-year-old vet who was selling the poppies.

Post: #40

(11-02-2018 10:53 AM)Hypno Wrote:  In the U.S., following the Viet Nam war, it was unpopular to support the military. That only changed after Reagan.

(The commonwealth countries were not in viet nam like the U.S. was with the draft, so its a different history)

Australia and New Zealand sent troops to Vietnam--my dad (US Navy) had an Australian Army uniform he traded for over there. (I served attached to a NATO country's forces during one of my deployments to Afghanistan--always regretted not trading for some of their swag as a souveneir, thought about getting some on Ebay but it wouldn't be the same.) The Aussies in particular lost quite a few men there.

I've also read that more Canadians crossed the border to enlist in the US military and fight in Afghanistan than American draft dodgers fled to Canada, but I'm not sure if that's true.

And of course there was one of the great alpha men of our time, Rick Rescorla--a Cornwall native and Rhodesia veteran who later served in Vietnam (in the US Army, after naturalizing here), then later went into private security and was killed on 9/11 saving lives at the World Trade Center.

Post: #41

(11-03-2018 04:42 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

(11-02-2018 04:54 PM)eljeffster Wrote:  

(11-02-2018 10:53 AM)Hypno Wrote:  In the U.S., following the Viet Nam war, it was unpopular to support the military. That only changed after Reagan.

(The commonwealth countries were not in viet nam like the U.S. was with the draft, so its a different history)

Now, the miliatary pays the NFL for propoganda and its unpopular to not support the military. There is a great Curb Your Enthusiasm episode last season about this "Thank you for your service".

Trump is going to make the military popular and great again with the Space Force.

I think you misunderstood my comment.

When the vets came back from Nam, they were booed and considered child killers. That is why they are a protected class under federal law for affirmative action, etc.

Having toys like guns or GI Joe was a little controversial in the 70s.

Reagan was elected in 80, and things got better.

Gulf War I was around 91, things got better.

Gulf War II, the U.S. started actively promoting the military with propoganda. Fly overs at football games. Stuff like that. It was money well spent, but it was propoganda nonetheless. In the early 2000s, you started to see camo as a fashion accessory, whereas the only people who wore military garb in the 70s were deranged (Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver).

Today, if a serviceman walks through an airport in uniform they are applauded. So its hard to say the image can be improved.

I wasn't questioning your comment about the reaction to a serviceman in uniform today. Your post got me thinking about future veterans and then about space force veterans. That is why I replied to your post.

Post: #42

(11-03-2018 05:12 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(11-02-2018 10:53 AM)Hypno Wrote:  In the U.S., following the Viet Nam war, it was unpopular to support the military. That only changed after Reagan.

(The commonwealth countries were not in viet nam like the U.S. was with the draft, so its a different history)

Now, the miliatary pays the NFL for propoganda and its unpopular to not support the military. There is a great Curb Your Enthusiasm episode last season about this "Thank you for your service".

Get out of here with that shit, mate.

We Australians lost 521 casualties in the name of that "All the Way with LBJ" bullshit. New Zealand lost 37, I believe.

Far more Australian Viet vets succumbed to suicide than were lost in action. I understand that we take far better care of our veterans in general among the Western world (at the governmental level at least), but the reception they received upon returning home, even from officialdom, was nothing short of appalling. Viet vets were told by WW2 and Korean War veterans "Come back when you've fought a real war" upon attempting to enter an RSL premises (Returned and Services League, our veterans support association).

Furthermore, far more countries (Thailand, South Korea, Taiwan) gave troops to the Vietnam War, and most casualties were Vietnamese. Stop thinking that that war was some all-American oriental excursion.

The commies were supposedly scared shitless of the South Koreans and Taiwanese.

You guys were in Afghanistan and Iraq as well, a platoon or so of Aussies spent a week or two at the base I was at my first deployment. Never went outside the wire with them but the handful I talked to all seemed like solid dudes.

Post: #43

(11-04-2018 05:18 AM)Batka Wrote:  Many of my family members served in the British Armed Forces with a few of them dying in the trenches in WW1, one of them a 16 year old relative who died at Ypres. WW1 was a shocking waste of young, working class men for a war that was for the benefit of the ruling aristocratic and banking elites who stood to gain should the conflict turn out in their favour.

I would never wear a poppy as for me it is a symbol of British imperialism but I would never disrespect anyone who wore one. To each to their own. Every person has their own way to remember the dead. Me, I went back to a graveyard in northern Belgium a few years back on a freezing cold day and laid a wreath in memory of a relative whom I never saw, cursing the bankers and the inbred, parasitic aristocrats who used him and countless others to settle a petty family squabble, and for what, over some bruised egos. Fuck them.

You should do some more reading, it wasn't just the working class the died as a generation. WW1 gutted many of the aristocratic families in the UK.

Post: #44

(11-04-2018 05:39 PM)Bluey Wrote:  

(11-04-2018 05:18 AM)Batka Wrote:  Many of my family members served in the British Armed Forces with a few of them dying in the trenches in WW1, one of them a 16 year old relative who died at Ypres. WW1 was a shocking waste of young, working class men for a war that was for the benefit of the ruling aristocratic and banking elites who stood to gain should the conflict turn out in their favour.

I would never wear a poppy as for me it is a symbol of British imperialism but I would never disrespect anyone who wore one. To each to their own. Every person has their own way to remember the dead. Me, I went back to a graveyard in northern Belgium a few years back on a freezing cold day and laid a wreath in memory of a relative whom I never saw, cursing the bankers and the inbred, parasitic aristocrats who used him and countless others to settle a petty family squabble, and for what, over some bruised egos. Fuck them.

You should do some more reading, it wasn't just the working class the died as a generation. WW1 gutted many of the aristocratic families in the UK.

The real tragedy of WWI is that Western Civilization decided to put a revolver to its head and blew its brains out, taking with it most of its very necessary and precious warrior class (which crossed all socio economic classes).

It has been speculated on this site by others besides me that the reason America sticks out like a sore thumb is that out warrior class survived WWI and its follow up WWII.

Post: #45

@beta_plus, yes, it's a very good point that by virtue of being young, often unmarried and childless volunteers, the West lost in one cruel stroke a significant part of it's gene-pool. Its best and bravest, from all sides. Makes you think.

As an aside, I'm reading an interesting book at the moment about the dichotomy within Germany at the time of WW1. Many on this forum will have a better grasp of it than I, but from what I'm reading, Germany was under Prussian control and Prussia wanted a land war with Russia, whilst Germany was more interested in creating a strong navy to battle the British Empire. This two-headed beast nature maybe goes a long way to explaining why Germany made such catastrophic mistakes while they were demonstrably winning the war (ahead in the technology and weapons race too). With Prussia antagonising Russia and Germany doing the same with America. Without wasting those troops in the East, they might have beaten Britain.

To go back to wearing the poppy, it's in the news again with newsreaders and footballers refusing to wear it. Things like this fascinate me, as (like Brexit) they bring out the true thoughts and nature of everyday people you see around you. You get brief involuntary clues and teasing glimpses as to what the battle-lines are going to look like if things ever kick-off in the UK.

For myself, I wear it to respect the dead who fought in good faith. Like Teedub, it upsets the left, so that's always good. I understand Leonard's point as well. I totally get Foolsgo1d's anger here too, as they have all been betrayed.

Post: #46

(11-05-2018 06:53 AM)Richard Turpin Wrote:  To go back to wearing the poppy, it's in the news again with newsreaders and footballers refusing to wear it. Things like this fascinate me, as (like Brexit) they bring out the true thoughts and nature of everyday people you see around you. You get brief involuntary clues and teasing glimpses as to what the battle-lines are going to look like if things ever kick-off in the UK.

Yep, it's reminded me why I hate Celtic fans (not all of them, of course — just the ones who sing songs supporting the IRA and Hamas). I know they're a Scottish team, but they're closely allied with Irish republicanism and it's got a very nasty strain that goes far beyond the jokey nature of Scots English-bashing. It comes out when alcohol is involved, I had a work colleague who was guilty of bringing it up frequently.

Post: #47

(11-04-2018 04:54 AM)britchard Wrote:  Not sure I quite catch your logic their Foolsgo1d, but each to his own.

To me, it's remembering the sacrifices given by men who were conscripted and did their duty. Take politics out of it, whether you think the wars were justified or that it was all in vain, these were men who had no choice but to go and serve. There isn't an English family around who doesn't have a member who was deeply affected by WW1/WW2.

I didn't know that the poppies existed elsewhere, but it's good to see that they do. I assume it's a British heritage/Commonwealth thing.

Im not taking away what they did but what the poppy represents. We have many of these heartless, soulless puppets parrotting remembrance but flip to the other side of the coin and would spite you and would have you "dealt" with for offending their feelings - the exact opposite of what these men fought for.

I dont need a specific day, week or month to celebrate what they went to war for, instead I remember them everytime I look at history and Western countries as a whole.

Post: #48

Every year now, I'm noticing how wearing a Poppy is becoming more and more divisive. Not yet, on the ground level, most people I know don't care, or are not even aware that there are any issues surrounding the wearing of them. But among Journos, Politicians, Activists and shit-stirrers in general, the Poppy is becoming a political football.

Today's entry, for example;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...egion.html

Quote:'Wearing poppies is RACIST!': Pro-Corbyn 'attack dog' sparks fury with vile comments about honouring war dead and saying Royal British Legion should be AXED
Far-left journalist Aaron Bastani described annual remembrance scheme 'a joke'
Corbyn supporter labelled the poppy appeal as 'grotesque' and 'racist' in video
He also mocks the Invictus Games as a 'bizarre PR exercise' for the royal family
Bloggers's site Novara Media is full of glowing tributes to Labour leader Corbyn

Post: #49

To hell with those leftist POS who want to politicize the poppy. Let them go to a Legion near a combat arms base on the 11th and spew their garbage. They won't dare. That's a challenge if any of them are paying attention here.

On a more positive note, here is a not so new awesome video.

Post: #50

Where is a good place to get a poppy to wear here in central Texas?