Post: #1

Dark circles around my eyes for as long as I can remember. Those really bother me.

Immense difficulty waking up and getting out of bed despite getting 8 hours of sleep, turning off all lights before bed, taking magnesium, zinc and no stimulants etc. I don't overdo it with coffee or any stimulants on a daily basis.

Interestingly during a male hormone blood test a few months ago my progesterone was way above normal as WELL as my DHEA (not DHEA-S though). Thyroids, testosterone, estrogen etc. all normal (except SHBG which was super high).

What is the best way of going about determining if you have adrenal hyper or hyper or hypo function and what tests e.g. blood tests should you get to verify this. Also, what is the best method to solve this?

Post: #2

I would be interested in this as well, I have trouble sleeping and they ran a TSH T4 test and I came back 1.2 uIU/mL which is normal.

Post: #3

That’s the test, like me you have a different problem

I find that alcohol, even one glass, interferes with my sleep so I have cut back drastically. I improved my diet and exercise which helped but still not a complete solution

I supplement with zinc but not copper, may try a balanced blend

Let me know what you try

Post: #4

Have same problem too , even though my Total Testosterone is high, I don't get muscles and I think adrenal fatigue is the cause.

Another symptom : Anxiety which result on Premature ejaculation.

Heard that some supplement (avialble without prescription ) could help , like 5 HTP and Sam-e

someone had experience with those ?

Post: #5

(08-21-2018 07:45 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  Dark circles around my eyes for as long as I can remember. Those really bother me.

Immense difficulty waking up and getting out of bed despite getting 8 hours of sleep, turning off all lights before bed, taking magnesium, zinc and no stimulants etc. I don't overdo it with coffee or any stimulants on a daily basis.

Interestingly during a male hormone blood test a few months ago my progesterone was way above normal as WELL as my DHEA (not DHEA-S though). Thyroids, testosterone, estrogen etc. all normal (except SHBG which was super high).

What is the best way of going about determining if you have adrenal hyper or hyper or hypo function and what tests e.g. blood tests should you get to verify this. Also, what is the best method to solve this?

HPA axis dysregulation, there is no such thing as adrenal fatigue! Go on a paleo/high fat diet, and eliminate all caffeine, including dark chocolate, teas (drink decaf instead) and of course any type of soda. Also eliminate alcohol/tobacco. Try that for 3 months and I think you will see your issues clear.



This talk might explain some things.

Dark circles are usually a sign of poor liver function/toxin build up. The skin under the eyes is very thin, so it`s sort of a gauge of what`s going on your body, and with the liver in particular. I used to have it also, (black circles actually) but it cleared mostly when I stopped the booze and cigarettes. When i eventually gave up caffeine, the circles disappeared entirely.

Post: #6

Proper salt intake is key. I do salt flushes regularly and consume about 15 grams of Himalayan pink salt a day, which really balances the adrenals. Some therapies like bee venom therapy also kick the adrenals into gear. High dose vitamin C is also important for the adrenals.

Post: #7

Do a sleep study to check for sleep apnea.

I'm a reasonably slim guy who never thought this would be a problem for me, but after a similar condition to yours and exhausting all other options (thyroid, blood tests etc) my doc sent me off for a study and it turned out I had it.

Post: #8

Thanks guys, will look into all of this. Gonna quit caffeine. Need to find this himalayan salt - 15g a day sounds like a lot!

Post: #9

Costco is a good source for Himalayan salt. But keep in mind it has no iodine. I take a kelp tablet daily to ensure enough iodine

Post: #10

Don't start with 15 grams of Himalayan pink salt. Start with 5 grams. I worked my way up to 15 grams.

Post: #11

After I cleared my sleep test (I don't wake up enough times during the night for it to be deemed "bad") they're now sending me for a head CT scan since they suspect serious sinus blockage causing my headaches and lack of sleep.

Post: #12

(08-22-2018 02:45 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  After I cleared my sleep test (I don't wake up enough times during the night for it to be deemed "bad") they're now sending me for a head CT scan since they suspect serious sinus blockage causing my headaches and lack of sleep.

check pituitary adenoma , they are pretty commun 20% of population have it and they are not aware.

Post: #13

I had similar problems. THis is what has worked for me.

pink salt every morning in a glass of water.
I also take a bovine adrenal supplement. I use this one https://www.iherb.com/pr/Thorne-Research...ules/18706
And the other thing i just started doing was not drinking caffeine twice a week. giving my adrenals a rest has helped a lot and it also improved my caffeine sensitivity. So i feel it more when i have a cup of coffee.
To help with the physical addiction of having to drink something hot in the morning and sip on through out the day I have been drinking this whack shit called Akava. does the trick.

Post: #14

BIGINJAPAN is back!

Post: #15

(08-22-2018 04:21 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  I had similar problems. THis is what has worked for me.

pink salt every morning in a glass of water.
I also take a bovine adrenal supplement. I use this one https://www.iherb.com/pr/Thorne-Research...ules/18706
And the other thing i just started doing was not drinking caffeine twice a week. giving my adrenals a rest has helped a lot and it also improved my caffeine sensitivity. So i feel it more when i have a cup of coffee.
To help with the physical addiction of having to drink something hot in the morning and sip on through out the day I have been drinking this whack shit called Akava. does the trick.

So Salt helps for adrenal fatigue ??

How about drawback of sodium spike ?

Post: #16

The simplest way to find out is to hold your breath for around 40 seconds in a relaxed state during fasting period. If you have adrenal fatigue, you won't be able to do it for that long.

This link indicates the way to do it.



To counter it, eat unfortified nutritional yeast and lots of potassium to balance the salt through salads/vegetables esp. kale, spinach, avacado etc...

If you're okay with sugar, you can take 1-2 bananas to get the potassium level and get the rest from vegetables.

If you take salt, the adrenals will work overtime to keep the sodium more than what it needs and cause further stress on the kidneys. so you counter it with potassium to keep the body's sodium-potassium pump in balance.

Post: #17

Great advice here. I've found Dr. Berg's Youtube videos to be a tremendous source of useful information from an experienced medical practitioner (he's a chiropractor successfully treating patients for decades). Getting your sleep rhythm on point is key, and all diet and lifestyle changes relate to that.

Alcohol, illicit drugs, cigarettes, caffeine, excess sugar, deficiencies of vital minerals all contribute to overall fatigue and hormonal dysregulation. I would also add to your list of beneficial practices:

- silent sitting / meditation which is proven to reduce stress

- Dr. Berg has certain devices that activate pressure points on your abdomen and under your cranium. I've tried it, definitely helps.

- a quality massage focusing on scalp and feet. Your feet tie in to many organs in your body, even getting a foot massage for 30 min will help release built-up stress and improve circulation.

- 'earthing' / grounding your feet, hands, or body on bare ground, concrete, grass. Getting 15-20 min of direct earth contact will ensure you're getting enough free-radical fighting electrons which our body needs. If you can get into salt water that increases the available electron density even further.

- switch to moderate exercise, walk for 30 min a day, especially during the peak of the day's sun to help your circadian rhythm reset itself

- light box / sun box therapy (See Lizard of Oz's thread), definitely helps reset circadian rhythm and has a host of other benefits

- work with a naturopath (N.D.) or doctor of functional medicine to get your blood work done to understand exactly what may be out of balance and develop a diet / lifestyle plan to improve your health. Western medical doctors (M.D.s) do NOT understand nutrition! I recommend following Chris Kresser for functional medicine advice, and Dr. Peter Glidden / Dr. Joel Wallach for naturopathic advice.

Post: #18

In my experience, avoid all drugs and alcohol--even caffeine.

Sleeping 8-10 hours per night for about 2-3 weeks or so to allow your body to recover.

Use a lightbox when you wake up as others have suggested.

After doing this regularly I felt back to 100%.

Post: #19

Some tips real quick:

A real quick test to see how fatigued your peripheral nervous system is is to see how hard you can grip stuff (heh). Pinch on an old school bathroom scale if you have one, or those hand grippy trainer things, or see how tired you get hanging from something.

- I second checking if you have sleep apnea. If you wake up with a mild headache, like a numb feeling, or if you often wake up with a mild sore throat, you might be a candidate. If you're overweight or have a large neck, definitely get checked. I had a deviated septum which gave me some sleep apnea. When that was fixed I noticed a general improvement in health.

- Do some sort of regular exercise, learning more towards weights or sprinting instead of cardio, although cardio is great, too.
- Sunlight when you wake up. TLOZ: /thread-39799.html
- Eating breakfast at a similar time each day helps a lot of people regulate their circadian rhythm, although some people like to fast a bit these days. See what works for you.
- Vitamin D is fucking important (fat soluble, but don't sweat it).
- B vitamins are pretty important, too (water soluble).
-Vitamin C never hurts (water soluble, so you can take a lot).

Now for the more interesting stuff:

- MSM, i.e. methylsulfonylmethane, supplements are wonderful for 'detox.' Go skim some articles about MSM. It's a great source of bioavailable sulfur and, since it's a commodity, it's pretty cheap. You can use whatever brand you want from Walmart or whatever. Main benefits are healthy skin + nails + hair, increased cell permeability so you can detox (so they say), and more energy in general. Start off with 1g and see how you feel. Try not to take it near bedtime since it boosts your energy. When you first start taking it, if you have to go pee a lot, it means it's working. The need to pee more often than usual goes away within a couple days. I use this cheapy stuff, but it works fine:



- Read this thread: /thread-31408.html. Taking potato starch raw has been a real game changer for me. (I just slosh it around in some water as it doesn't taste like much, but you can mix it with drinks if you want.) I also take zinc and magnesium, but my sleep was never that great. After taking potato starch my sleep + dreams went to the next level. I take it 1h or 30 mins before I sleep, but it doesn't really matter when you take it. The idea is the 'good bacteria' in you gut eat it and produce butyrate as a by-product. Your gut epithelial cells eat this butyrate and are happy. Something huge %, like 90, of your body's neurotransmitters are made in your gut, so it'll help you sleep well and not be depressed. (Also gut health is incredibility important to not being inflamed and not getting heart disease.)

This is the kind I use:


That's all I can think of for now. Easiest 'quick fix' is the MSM and potato starch. Can get them anywhere + real cheap. MSM ~$10, potato starch ~$2 in the baking aisle. Try those first before moving on to stuff that requires more 'commitment.' Even if you fix your problem, still try them, they are awesome. Best of luck.

Post: #20

(08-22-2018 10:55 PM)scotian Wrote:  BIGINJAPAN is back!

you know it baby

Post: #21

(08-23-2018 09:15 AM)casa-nostra Wrote:  

(08-22-2018 04:21 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  I had similar problems. THis is what has worked for me.

pink salt every morning in a glass of water.
I also take a bovine adrenal supplement. I use this one https://www.iherb.com/pr/Thorne-Research...ules/18706
And the other thing i just started doing was not drinking caffeine twice a week. giving my adrenals a rest has helped a lot and it also improved my caffeine sensitivity. So i feel it more when i have a cup of coffee.
To help with the physical addiction of having to drink something hot in the morning and sip on through out the day I have been drinking this whack shit called Akava. does the trick.

So Salt helps for adrenal fatigue ??

How about drawback of sodium spike ?

im not really sure i can explain it properly and im sure there is better resources online but the gist of it is that Himalayan salt has the perfect make up of what your body needs to get up in the morning. When you get out of bed you cause a big adrenaline spike that way you dont pass out from not enough blood flow from lying down. If you dont replenish the minerals that your kidneys need they will pull it from the blood stream if possible. But if you are lacking then you will be shit out of luck. So if the first thing you do is replenish the minerals in the morning the kidneys can replenish the adrenaline glands without taxing the body further by trying to recover. Easier for the body to digest and at the right time will help improve adrenaline fatigue.

as for the sodium spike the body handles real salt much differently than table salt. I have no signs of any problems. and i get bloodwork done every year.

THE ONLY CAVEAT IS DO NOT DRINK COFFEE WITHIN 20 TO 30 MINUTES AFTER HAVING PINK SALT.

YOU WILL HAVE 3 TO 4 EXPLOSIONS IN YOUR PANTS ALL DAY LONG AFTER.

if you trying to clean yourself out though that may be a good way to go about it. you will essentially be shitting brown water out by the end of the day

Post: #22

Two things that help me where

1. Quitting Caffeine for 3 months. Quite the challenge, a real bitch to do.

2. Drinking Bone broth before bed. Bone is action packed with nutrients. Our ancestors generally incorporated it into their diets somehow, some way. The marrow, gelatin, etc all has rejuvenating properties. It's very easy to make and once you do, just freeze it and warm up before bed. It's also a sleep inducer so it will help you get better rest as well. A twofer.

I used an elimination diet to reach this point. Really narrow food sources for a bit.

Also, a sauna and a cold pool is always a good pick me up. Sometimes you have to hijack your system.

Deep tissue massages work wonders as well.

Best of luck, keep us updated.

Post: #23

I have similar problems. Fatigue, mental fog, terminal insomnia and muscle weakness. Even though I've been on TRT for about a year, I see no increase in energy or muscle mass. I did a 4-sample cortisol test and my levels were all very suboptimal so I believe this is the culprit.

There is the natural way like some mentioned above: quitting caffeine, getting enough rest and nutrition, etc. Then there is taking hydrocortison. With the latter my adrenal would likely stop working with long term use of the medication and I'd get dependent on it. Very scary given that missing even a single dose can result in an "adrenal crisis".

I'm going to do the ACTH stimulation test to see if my adrenals are the problem or my pituitary/hypothalamus.

Post: #24

@ Hypno. I tried 50mg Zinc Picolinate and 2mg Copper (separarely) for many months. No idea if this is helping at all but I take it just for balance and to prevent deficiencies of either. I also have been taking a kelp powder tablet for a long time now every 3 days or so.

@Plevenski. Started taking 5g or so of Himalayan salt every morning with a lot of water. I think this is making a difference as well as fact I have drank no coffee for 4 weeks now. I still eat dark chocolate though so I haven’t entirely quit caffeine. I swear it is making a difference, as I am getting up MUCH easier than before. Much less grogginess.

Doubtful I have sleep apnea. My girl says I don’t snore and I don’t have a bulky physique at the moment. Still, haven’t had any proper medical tests for it.

I haven’t fully investigated this pituitary adenoma thing – its next on my list though.

I am pretty sure I still have some adrenal fatigue though. Having trouble holding my breath for 40 seconds plus. I did this Wim Hoff routine and got it up to 1 and a half minutes but still – not very long.

@ Villageindian. If I am having this salt every morning, is it worth taking a potassium supplement? I work on a ship where getting it from food can be challenging more often than not.

On the plus side, I feel my dark circles have subsided a little bit – I don’t drink coffee anymore, very rarely drink and don’t do drugs.

Probably my biggest challenge is coming in and out of night shift all the time as I work offshore as I mentioned and I usually have to work 6-6 nights and struggle a lot coming out of it. So my circadium rhythm is probably fucked.

I will try and find this MSM supplement. I will need to try this 4 sample cortisol test.

Post: #25

Good to hear, Wanna Bang. If you aren't procuring enough potassium through your diet, you should be supplementing it indeed. Most Americans are deficient in magnesium, potassium, iodine, and copper. It is my belief and many others that minerals are the backbone of great health. All forms are important: colloidal, monoatomic, and the regular, "inorganic" form.