Post: #1

At a few different times in my life, I've been pretty isolated on my life journey, and as a man that is always looking for the truth and reality of things, I've found a certain level of solace in some of the content Roosh has put out

So, I wanted to give a little bit back, and remind guys about the realities of life for everyone

What I want to remind you guys of, and the young guys in particular, is not to get caught in the trap of thinking that someone making money online or someone making good money as their own boss 'has it made' or is living a dream life

At the moment, I will make 11k USD online this month (not much compared to some people), and that number is both consistent and increasing every month. I've also got online assets that are worth a good amount of money. I'm yet to turn 30.

The last thing I'm trying to do is brag (I'm far from a perfect person and I in no way view myself as special or gifted) - I'm trying to give you guys an idea of where I'm at and trying to give some honest experience for anyone thinking about doing the same or going through the same.

I never got into this to be rich. I got into it to get to financial freedom so I didn't have to work for an extremely depressing company or a soul crushing 9-5 again. I also wanted to get to financial freedom so I had the time and space to think about what I wanted to do with my life and see if there was a much more meaningful way to be living for myself, and so I could see if there was a way I could help others and the systems we have in society as a whole.

To get to this point I'm at I had to (in the space of 3 or 4 years):
- commit every waking hour to reading, watching and actually putting into action the things I was learning about
- work shitty sales jobs in the beginning to give myself the time freedom to set things up (worked in some truly horrible work environments with some terrible people)
- live very minimally, essentially only paying for food, shelter and utilities
- never go on a holiday, travel, or buy anything that was considered a luxury or anything other than an absolute necessity
- rarely go out and socialise or do things with my friends
- be very strict about my health, sleep and other areas of my life to make sure I was thinking properly and setting myself up to be sustainable in my work habits
- live in precarious rental situations in terms of the areas I lived and the people I lived with
- learn about the realities of how business (lead gen, fulfillment etc), banks, taxes, fees, accountants, lawyers etc. Can be monotonous and depressing as heck to see how this part of the world really works. Once you've seen some of the things that go on, it can be hard to accept.
- try to phase out bad habits like over eating, porn, and negative self talk (just to name a few) that were negatively impacting my work and personal life
- go through mental bouts of thinking I was reaching my breaking point of going insane because I had no one to talk to about what I was going through...crucifying myself for choosing such am isolating lifestyle, and being very very close several times to taking anti depressants to numb some of the worry and mental pain (I never did though thank god)
- plus a lot more

Through all this you deal with big losses like the death of friends and family, personal health problems, and other unexpected things - like any normal person. But, you have to stay productive and control your emotions.

You also have to try to stay vigilant and not let your physical health, dating life and social life completely fall apart.

Another thing is, once you get good money, there's all the legal stuff that can go with it. And, you can be constantly worrying about what to do with it and whether someone is ripping you off or whether someone will come after you for it. You're worrying about your next move.

One set of problems which is being poor, having poor career prospects, and being depressed as heck, can be replaced by another set of problems like the responsibility of maintaining cash flow, dealing with other professionals and consultants, dealing with uncertainty, and living in mental isolation and worrying about what to do with money and assets.

It sounds like such an asshole thing to say to someone with nothing, but it's true and honest.

Some people don't have to do what I did. Some people manage to achieve a better balance with recreation and still find great financial success. But, that's just what it took for me with the strengths and limitations I have as a person.

I definitely don't want to discourage anyone else from pursuing this lifestyle. It can be massively worth it (I think it's the only way to go if you hate being an employee), and it's very do-able for anyone wanting to do it. You just have to be consistent with your effort and make a commitment to never give up. Just do a little bit more tomorrow and get a little bit better tomorrow than you were today.

Things will start getting better too - you start getting more knowledgeable and able to deal with things after a few years once you'v dealt with them already before. You can also set a point like I am where you plan to sell everything and bail out with whatever money you've made, skills you've developed and assets you've created, and sit on your money and figure out what's next.

If you guys haven't listened to Quintus Curtius' podcast on SoundCloud, he hit the nail on the head. Persistence is the only thing guaranteed to get you through anything you are going through in life. That applies to business, relationships, health, money - whatever.

As a summary, I want to remind you guys:
- Stop beating yourself up for where you are at in life, regardless of where you are at
- There's always another level you can get to
- At the same time, stop looking at social media, the mainstream and your friends and believing the stuff you see and getting sucked in to it all. Real results take real work and there will usually be sacrifices to be made. Someone else you see with something you want is not showing you the whole story if there isn't also a part of their life that you can see that doesn't look great.
- With everything that you could possibly want in life, there is always some type of burden that you have to bear or some type of price you have to pay for it. Don't be afraid of that though - just accept it as part of life and your evolution as a man. Understand too that life can come in waves and you might go through 5-10 bad years to get to that next point in life you want to get to
- Money and freedom is great, but you have to learn to use it the right way and for the right things. Be very aware of when you are becoming another cog in the system. Don't forget why you started doing what you're doing in the first place. Don't let money control you.

That's really it.

For you guys wondering, I made my money out of affiliate marketing, and no I don't have anything to sell or promote to you. My biggest tips to you guys wanting to make money online is that a) all the information is already out there on Google and Youtube (you have to be willing to sift through it all and take out what you think works for you and test it out for yourself - don't make any big money purchases for courses or anything in the first year or two - bootstrap everything until you know who is knowledgeable and who isn't), and b) join a Facebook group or some type of community where you have other people doing what you want to do and they aren't trying to sell you anything scammy so that you have peers to ask questions to when you get stuck.

After that, just make a commitment to persist.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank Roosh and other guys like Quintus for putting themselves out there and helping people who are trying to navigate life. With Roosh in particular, there are a few things I don't agree with him about, but there's lots I do agree with and I can see he is trying his best to give guys honest, no B.S. information without making it purely about money or financial gain. That's a very very hard line to walk - so I commend him and will always have a level of respect for him on that.

I also commend all the men out there doing their best and trying to better themselves and help the people around them. Keep going.

Post: #2

Damn that's what you call starting an RVF posting career with a BANG! Hopefully you'll keep posting in the Business lounge & possibly drop some Data Sheets about achieving this massive level of success!

Post: #3

Allow me to be the first to give you a +1 for such an honest first post. Thank you for sharing the bad sides of striking it out on your own, not many people have the courage to talk about this.

I can relate to a lot of these issues you're having -- the learning, trial and error, taxes and legal stuff that come when you finally succeed, the feelings of isolation, etc. One of the things I'm struggling with right now is to know WHEN to STOP working for the day. It's too easy for me to reply to "just one more email", only to have two hours pass before I'm finally done.

Gotta take a nap right now. I'll post more later.

Post: #4

Excellent for a first post. +1 from me.

Post: #5

Thanks for taking the time to contribute value.

Post: #6

Great summary.

Fully agree that it's very difficult to manage business, social/dating/fitness/travel at the same time. It took me a long time to develop the discipline necessary to pull it off - having dates in the evenings can really throw things off in terms of your daily routine and body clock, particularly if you like to get the bulk of your work done during the morning/early afternoon.

I find that having employees really helps with keeping to routine. Even if they are remote, having other people expecting you to be available though certain times works wonders, especially when you've been up all night bumping uglies and need that extra kick to get moving.

I'm actually finding it more difficult now - in the beginning, all I was living for was business.. I had no money and needed to get out, so it was easy to throw all resources and time at it. Once you get into a comfortable position it becomes less about survival, and more about the bigger impact you can have on the world. I started as an affiliate myself, and that's the point where I honestly got sick of shilling crap.

Add that mindset shift and combine it with suddenly having resources to travel, your body crying out for balance in terms of health/fitness/women/friends, you now have a very different set of challenges.

It still amazes me how quickly you can go from struggle to abundance - if you are all in, it can be a matter of a few years and you suddenly have more money then you thought possible.

If anyone is reading this and still on the fence, the best thing to do is jump in. Focus on solving the next challenge, as particularly in the beginning it can be daunting looking any further. Beware of over-educating yourself too soon as it fuels inaction - get the bare minimum info you need and get the momentum flowing. Correct your course later.

Ignore family or friends who offer resistance. No matter how well meaning they are, it is absolute poison. I kept my business secret for the first two years because I knew that my friends and family would have reservations, and their personal limiting briefs had the very real potential to subtly sabotage my mindset - where I'm from making a living fully online is still considered well outside the realm of possibility.

GT, we may actually know each other already.

Post: #7

(08-02-2018 01:40 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  What I want to remind you guys of, and the young guys in particular, is not to get caught in the trap of thinking that someone making money online or someone making good money as their own boss 'has it made' or is living a dream life

This hit home.

People conveniently forget the negatives and only concentrate on the positives. Part of that is caused by the countless digital nomad blogs and websites out there with grand stories of "look at me making my money from a beach somewhere, sipping cocktails". And good on them, it's their selling point, they'd be fools to not try and sell that dream.

The reality is, when you actually visit that beach, the people you see chilling out there aren't the truly succesful ones. The succesful ones are at home grinding away 12 hours a day on their laptops, and dealing with everything you just outlined in the rest of your post.

Edit: just re-read your post and saw another sentence I resonate with:

(08-02-2018 01:40 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  - Money and freedom is great, but you have to learn to use it the right way and for the right things. Be very aware of when you are becoming another cog in the system. Don't forget why you started doing what you're doing in the first place. Don't let money control you.

I am by no means rich, but I get by well on my own, online.

What I have noticed is that on the one hand, I have never been more free than I am now, in the sense that I live life on my own terms and I can do whatever the hell I want, when I want. I am not employed by anyone.

On the other hand though, at times, that is not how it feels. I am always working, it's become part of my lifestyle and of who I am. Sure, I live in countries I choose to live in, and I'm very happy that I chose a path in life that gives me that ability. But I also do not remember the last time I took more than a couple days off.

Your post sure is food for thought; I actually don't think I'm using my freedom the right way sometimes.

Post: #8

(08-02-2018 04:55 AM)Winston Wolfe Wrote:  The reality is, when you actually visit that beach, the people you see chilling out there aren't the truly succesful ones. The succesful ones are at home grinding away 12 hours a day on their laptops, and dealing with everything you just outlined in the rest of your post.

I will offer an alternate perspective here as I personally know people who pull this off while doing 7/low 8 figure years...

It IS possible, and it all boils down to one thing: proper delegation of your systemised processes (and an incredibly sharp operations manager, usually with equity or some sort of vested interest). It is exceedingly rare that somebody achieves this, but they do exist and they are in the absolute upper echelon of online businesses - the 1% of the 1%, so to speak. I am still in the process of doing this and it is no easy feat.

It's crucial that the business model is pretty stable and has enough margin in it to sustain a payroll... and can eventually be performed without you. A lot of the ones I know run offices of 5+ in Bulgaria, Philippines etc where you can hire top talent for $2-5k/mo depending on task, when the same in the US/UK/AU might run you 10-15k.

If that's in place, check out "Work the System" by Sam Carpenter as a basic primer.
"Built to Sell" by John Warrilow is also worth a read.
On hiring, "Hire With Your Head" by Lou Adler is good for basics and has a lot of examples. Chet Holmes has great material on hiring "sales superstars" (i.e pains in the ass that make you bank),
On management, "First, Break All the Rules" by Marcus Buckingham, honourable mention "Tribes" by Seth Godin.

I suggest buying hard copies and highlighting/post-it noting them. Sometimes I like to listen to the audiobooks on 2x and trace the hard copy with my finger... just another input for the brain.

Post: #9

Very true OP.

It gets easier the second time, when you don't have to figure everything out for the first time. Then it's just a question of execution. It's the uncertainty and the required leap of faith while struggling, that can get most people down. The truth is that there's a method to self employed success. Actionable steps to take and execute, but you're on your own and fighting in the dark (or so it seems). In addition, you have a lot of scamsters trying to lead you astray.

I'll take being self employed over being an employee anytime, but it requires some harsh introspection and self discipline. There's a reason older entrepreneurs are more successful than young ones.

Post: #10

Op, thank your for this post. I resonated with a lot of what you said, especially living within your means. It’s not often you see posts that offer valuable advice without pushing a product. Very on point about the “make money online” guys only showing one side of the story. Again, thank you.

Post: #11

The years of isolation is the tough part that grinds you. Most people think persistence is like 6 months but when you're 3.5 years into a business with little to show for it, it's very difficult to keep trying. You need an extreme desire to be self employed to put up with the pain of that, watching yourself age 4 years chasing a dream.

Post: #12

(08-02-2018 12:25 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  The years of isolation is the tough part that grinds you. Most people think persistence is like 6 months but when you're 3.5 years into a business with little to show for it, it's very difficult to keep trying. You need an extreme desire to be self employed to put up with the pain of that, watching yourself age 4 years chasing a dream.

I concur. Also, forget about gaming while you are doing that. If you are already good with girls, going out once or twice a month is enough. But when you are starting out it is not and when you want to get good with girls and start your own business you can do both, sure, but probably not at the same time.

Post: #13

Great post. Would you mind talking about some specific examples of these? -

(08-02-2018 01:40 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  - learn about the realities of how business (lead gen, fulfillment etc), banks, taxes, fees, accountants, lawyers etc. Can be monotonous and depressing as heck to see how this part of the world really works. Once you've seen some of the things that go on, it can be hard to accept.

Post: #14

Nice thread, and I can relate to a lot of things said as a founder myself. When people ask me about the most surprising thing you learn after you start a business I always say the same thing: I did not expect it to be such a fucking emotional roller-coaster. The moments of doubt will be loooong and brutal (for many people it will never go away regardless how big your company gets). Too often my mood is directly related to my sales: sales suck one week I mentally start preparing to sleep under a bridge. Sales pick up, I start googling the best jet share programs.

I have finally reached a level now after 4 years of constant hustling where I make more than I would at a normal job. During this time it has been very rare that I work-work more than 8 hours a day but of course you are in some ways "always" working: If I am at the gym I listen to some industry podcast, and in the evenings you are always responding to some emails.

One big realization is that depending on what you are doing, aka "the idea", the resistance will wary a lot. Keep this in mind when you are starting out. The rewards will not be proportionate to the work put in. There are hard and there are really fucking hard ways to make money. In an ideal world follow the principles in Thiel's From Zero To One (or at least some of them). However never get TOO hung-up on "the idea" when starting out, doing is all that matters. I stopped listening to friends a long time ago who try and pitch me something after a few drinks if I know that they have no history of executing ideas.

So is it all worth it? For me at least there are just no options. Going back to selling my time for money at a corporate job? The idea honestly seems absurd to me now.

Post: #15

(08-02-2018 03:47 PM)scengja Wrote:  The moments of doubt will be loooong and brutal (for many people it will never go away regardless how big your company gets). Too often my mood is directly related to my sales: sales suck one week I mentally start preparing to sleep under a bridge. Sales pick up, I start googling the best jet share programs.

Preach!

Post: #16

Welcome to RVF. Great post - very inspiring.

(08-02-2018 01:40 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  - learn about the realities of how business (lead gen, fulfillment etc), banks, taxes, fees, accountants, lawyers etc. Can be monotonous and depressing as heck to see how this part of the world really works. Once you've seen some of the things that go on, it can be hard to accept.

It's always a shock when you start paying your own taxes. There's something about writing a cheque that is so much harder to accept than simply seeing a line printed on your payslip.

I don't have a lot of experience in Australia, but did visit once about a decade ago. Lifestyle-wise it's quite a nice place to be. I think you'd be hard pressed to find better beaches anywhere. On the other hand, comments here on RVF seem to indicate that the dating market leaves a lot to be desired. Have those realities that you wrote about made you consider relocating? It must be hard not to look at your taxes (30% corporate?) and the high cost of living now that you have a location-independent business... are you tempted by the possibility of opimizing those taxes to well under 10% and living well for half the cost?

Post: #17

I can relate to this. I've been struggling on an online product business for over 1 year now (my partner has wanted to quit 3 times already) and only now are we starting to see some solid growth ... One big difference between my partner and me is that I have saved up well over 6-figures over the last 4 years working online (services business), whereas my partner has <30K.

If you've got a big cash cushion, starting a business is pretty stress-free. In fact, since I fully trust my partner I have been paying him a cost-of-living wage to focus 100% on our business while I work part-time on it and part-time in my services business. Since starting that arrangement, we got a huge boost in momentum (as opposed to before when both of us were part-time) because now he can tackle the ambitious, needle-moving tasks that before were too intimidating as part-timers. And I'm still basically break-even financially paying for all that and my own living expenses.

Based on this I'd say:

1.) If the jump to a "product"-style business is too much (like the OPs affiliate marketing which has a long learning curve), start by freelancing online first. Then as soon as you can find 1 client, you are making money already

2.) As you go through your life and career, always keep a thought in your head about who you could potentially work with in the future. Having a *GOOD* business partner makes things 10x easier (whereas you only lose 2x of your equity)

Post: #18

(08-02-2018 03:41 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  Allow me to be the first to give you a +1 for such an honest first post. Thank you for sharing the bad sides of striking it out on your own, not many people have the courage to talk about this.

I can relate to a lot of these issues you're having -- the learning, trial and error, taxes and legal stuff that come when you finally succeed, the feelings of isolation, etc. One of the things I'm struggling with right now is to know WHEN to STOP working for the day. It's too easy for me to reply to "just one more email", only to have two hours pass before I'm finally done.

Gotta take a nap right now. I'll post more later.

Thank you - I appreciate it.

Everyone is different, but I learnt to approach business like a marathon.
I put in my 8 hours every day and that's it. Some months you just have to do more if you are starting a new project, taxes are due, something personal comes up, or whatever, but that's just part of it.


I would also say there's that period int he first 2 or 3 years (or can be more) where you are learning, probably working another part time job, and basically hustling your face off trying to set things up. That's basically unavoidable if you are new and don't have much help. Just embrace it and try to get to a point of covering living costs, have a breather and go from there and try to build.

Post: #19

(08-02-2018 04:28 AM)HustleNomad Wrote:  Great summary.

Fully agree that it's very difficult to manage business, social/dating/fitness/travel at the same time. It took me a long time to develop the discipline necessary to pull it off - having dates in the evenings can really throw things off in terms of your daily routine and body clock, particularly if you like to get the bulk of your work done during the morning/early afternoon.

I find that having employees really helps with keeping to routine. Even if they are remote, having other people expecting you to be available though certain times works wonders, especially when you've been up all night bumping uglies and need that extra kick to get moving.

I'm actually finding it more difficult now - in the beginning, all I was living for was business.. I had no money and needed to get out, so it was easy to throw all resources and time at it. Once you get into a comfortable position it becomes less about survival, and more about the bigger impact you can have on the world. I started as an affiliate myself, and that's the point where I honestly got sick of shilling crap.

Add that mindset shift and combine it with suddenly having resources to travel, your body crying out for balance in terms of health/fitness/women/friends, you now have a very different set of challenges.

It still amazes me how quickly you can go from struggle to abundance - if you are all in, it can be a matter of a few years and you suddenly have more money then you thought possible.

If anyone is reading this and still on the fence, the best thing to do is jump in. Focus on solving the next challenge, as particularly in the beginning it can be daunting looking any further. Beware of over-educating yourself too soon as it fuels inaction - get the bare minimum info you need and get the momentum flowing. Correct your course later.

Ignore family or friends who offer resistance. No matter how well meaning they are, it is absolute poison. I kept my business secret for the first two years because I knew that my friends and family would have reservations, and their personal limiting briefs had the very real potential to subtly sabotage my mindset - where I'm from making a living fully online is still considered well outside the realm of possibility.

GT, we may actually know each other already.

You're so right on all of this. Literally all of it.

I can relate to all of it - dates throwing you off, going from struggle to abundance quickly (and having to change your identity and mindset very quickly), getting the momentum going as being important, ignoring friends and family.

On that last point - you make a very good point. Once you start making money and you see what it takes to make money, you start seeing all the things that are holding other people back - both in their mindsets and their lifestyles. You basically keep moving further away from most people mentally, and you have to develop two identities - one for when you are working, and one that is basically a blank shell for your parents, siblings, blue pill friends, customer service people and so on where you learn to talk shit and listen to complaining, but don't emotionally register with any of it (you detach essentially).

I think that can be one of the hardest things to do - to learn to internalise everything and compartmentalise all the shit you see and deal with, and just accept 99.9% of people you meet will never know what you're talking about.

It does get better though, for sure.

You go from extreme frustration, to acceptance, to appreciation. It just takes time - you have to work on it.

RE employing people - I don't do that yet. I chose to stay a solopreneur and maximise profits in the beginning and minimise capital outlay. It's worked out well so far.

RE affiliate to moving away from it - I do have to say there is a lot of affiliate junk out there, but there are a lot of practical products that also work too. I can genuinely say that everything I've marketed has been a physical product actually works and has a practical need. I do agree with you though - if all you are doing is peddling products for the sake of money (regardless of how practical they are), you lose part of your soul over time if you are someone who wants to make some sort of difference in the world. I'm also moving away from the affiliate program model now that I have some cash and moving more towards creating a good solid diversified brand that has the ability to deeply help people. But, I think it was necessary I had to start where I did to learn everything.

Everyone is different - I know some people that just want money. They replicate the same business model over and over (and make lots of money) and wonder why they are never motivated or fulfilled.

I don't think we know each other - I know no one from New Zealand.

I'll drop you a PM at some point though - we probably have some things in common.

Post: #20

(08-02-2018 04:55 AM)Winston Wolfe Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 01:40 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  What I want to remind you guys of, and the young guys in particular, is not to get caught in the trap of thinking that someone making money online or someone making good money as their own boss 'has it made' or is living a dream life

This hit home.

People conveniently forget the negatives and only concentrate on the positives. Part of that is caused by the countless digital nomad blogs and websites out there with grand stories of "look at me making my money from a beach somewhere, sipping cocktails". And good on them, it's their selling point, they'd be fools to not try and sell that dream.

The reality is, when you actually visit that beach, the people you see chilling out there aren't the truly succesful ones. The succesful ones are at home grinding away 12 hours a day on their laptops, and dealing with everything you just outlined in the rest of your post.

Edit: just re-read your post and saw another sentence I resonate with:

(08-02-2018 01:40 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  - Money and freedom is great, but you have to learn to use it the right way and for the right things. Be very aware of when you are becoming another cog in the system. Don't forget why you started doing what you're doing in the first place. Don't let money control you.

I am by no means rich, but I get by well on my own, online.

What I have noticed is that on the one hand, I have never been more free than I am now, in the sense that I live life on my own terms and I can do whatever the hell I want, when I want. I am not employed by anyone.

On the other hand though, at times, that is not how it feels. I am always working, it's become part of my lifestyle and of who I am. Sure, I live in countries I choose to live in, and I'm very happy that I chose a path in life that gives me that ability. But I also do not remember the last time I took more than a couple days off.

Your post sure is food for thought; I actually don't think I'm using my freedom the right way sometimes.

Thanks man.

I understand a lot of what you are saying.

I rarely take days off either. But, I don't mind it so much - I can tolerate working all the time if I'm working on shit I own, and I have a clear finish line in terms of "OK I can earn 1 million dollars in this many years and then figure out my plan from there", as opposed to working for a company and them constantly changing the goalpoasts in terms of your salary, conditions, hours etc.

When you work for yourself, you also develop skills you wouldn't being an employee, and if you approach it the right way, you can eventually work on something you're passionate about down the road.

Post: #21

(08-02-2018 06:20 AM)HustleNomad Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 04:55 AM)Winston Wolfe Wrote:  The reality is, when you actually visit that beach, the people you see chilling out there aren't the truly succesful ones. The succesful ones are at home grinding away 12 hours a day on their laptops, and dealing with everything you just outlined in the rest of your post.

I will offer an alternate perspective here as I personally know people who pull this off while doing 7/low 8 figure years...

It IS possible, and it all boils down to one thing: proper delegation of your systemised processes (and an incredibly sharp operations manager, usually with equity or some sort of vested interest). It is exceedingly rare that somebody achieves this, but they do exist and they are in the absolute upper echelon of online businesses - the 1% of the 1%, so to speak. I am still in the process of doing this and it is no easy feat.

It's crucial that the business model is pretty stable and has enough margin in it to sustain a payroll... and can eventually be performed without you. A lot of the ones I know run offices of 5+ in Bulgaria, Philippines etc where you can hire top talent for $2-5k/mo depending on task, when the same in the US/UK/AU might run you 10-15k.

If that's in place, check out "Work the System" by Sam Carpenter as a basic primer.
"Built to Sell" by John Warrilow is also worth a read.
On hiring, "Hire With Your Head" by Lou Adler is good for basics and has a lot of examples. Chet Holmes has great material on hiring "sales superstars" (i.e pains in the ass that make you bank),
On management, "First, Break All the Rules" by Marcus Buckingham, honourable mention "Tribes" by Seth Godin.

I suggest buying hard copies and highlighting/post-it noting them. Sometimes I like to listen to the audiobooks on 2x and trace the hard copy with my finger... just another input for the brain.

You're 100% right on this hiring and outsourcing and systematising part.

Here is the thing I've learnt though from looking at things from a deeper level...

- Do some people completely systematise their business and have a great quality and value giving business? Yes. Absolutely.
- Do some people completely systematise their business and sacrifice accuracy, quality, results for their customer/client, and their employees' health and well being, and generally put crap out there? Yes. Absolutely.

This is where it can get down to a moral question for the owner themselves.

Do you just believe in understanding the system to the extent of making money and that's your only job? Or do you want to try do the right thing by your customers and clients and employees?

There's so many moral variables and factors that can go into business that you never consider until you get into it. It's never discussed either - people think you're a goody two shoes if you bring it up most times. You kind of have to observe what is going on and make up your own mind on what you think is the right way to conduct a business.

Post: #22

(08-02-2018 06:29 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  Very true OP.

It gets easier the second time, when you don't have to figure everything out for the first time. Then it's just a question of execution. It's the uncertainty and the required leap of faith while struggling, that can get most people down. The truth is that there's a method to self employed success. Actionable steps to take and execute, but you're on your own and fighting in the dark (or so it seems). In addition, you have a lot of scamsters trying to lead you astray.

I'll take being self employed over being an employee anytime, but it requires some harsh introspection and self discipline. There's a reason older entrepreneurs are more successful than young ones.

I agree with you.

I only had the emotional leverage to take on the responsibility and burden of working for myself after the age of 25, and experiencing some deep emotional trauma.

I wasn't ready before then.

It can be a genetic thing sometimes too. I think you have to have some level of dog in you - you have to want it no matter what and be ready for those harsh realities when they come.

Post: #23

(08-02-2018 12:25 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  The years of isolation is the tough part that grinds you. Most people think persistence is like 6 months but when you're 3.5 years into a business with little to show for it, it's very difficult to keep trying. You need an extreme desire to be self employed to put up with the pain of that, watching yourself age 4 years chasing a dream.

Haha dude that aging part is so spot on.
When you are sitting inside for 12 hours at a time, day on day on day, week on week on week, you can feel your hairs going grey with stress. You think about all the things you could be doing instead, it can drive you to the brink of insanity.
You have to remember the reason you are doing though is because employment is not an option and you want something more out of life

Post: #24

(08-02-2018 03:05 PM)Sherlock Holmes Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 12:25 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  The years of isolation is the tough part that grinds you. Most people think persistence is like 6 months but when you're 3.5 years into a business with little to show for it, it's very difficult to keep trying. You need an extreme desire to be self employed to put up with the pain of that, watching yourself age 4 years chasing a dream.

I concur. Also, forget about gaming while you are doing that. If you are already good with girls, going out once or twice a month is enough. But when you are starting out it is not and when you want to get good with girls and start your own business you can do both, sure, but probably not at the same time.

Yep.
When you have got to meet rent for the week and pay all your bills and you are suffering from low self esteem, lack of competence and uncertainty over your future - AND you're working 12 hours a day - it's enough to kill any boner.
I struggled with switching over from the logical/super serious mindset to going and talking absolute shit to girls in clubs and on dates.
I stopped dating for 2 years while I set everything up. I only lost momentum, picked up bad vibes from the girls, and made things harder for myself in business.

Post: #25

(08-02-2018 03:21 PM)the-dream Wrote:  Great post. Would you mind talking about some specific examples of these? -

(08-02-2018 01:40 AM)GT777733 Wrote:  - learn about the realities of how business (lead gen, fulfillment etc), banks, taxes, fees, accountants, lawyers etc. Can be monotonous and depressing as heck to see how this part of the world really works. Once you've seen some of the things that go on, it can be hard to accept.

Once you get to a certain income level - you have to start changing your financial and legal structures.
Otherwise, your personal assets are at risk, and you are losing a truckload of money on taxes and fees if you don't have everything set up from an money efficient perspective.
You also have to have a very good grasp on your personal and business finances otherwise things can become a nightmare to keep track of.
It's hard to give examples other than that explanation.
It depends on your own individual situation.