Post: #201

Sen. McCain Congratulates Obama: The Fact Is This Is Another Success For The Administration

On Thursday’s edition of John King USA on CNN, Senator John McCain graciously congratulated President Obama for the fall of Muammar Gaddafi. “The fact is this is another success for the Obama administration,” McCain acknowledged.

“I’d like to congratulate the Administration, they helped out enormously. I think they deserve great credit.” McCain said.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/john-mccain-c...istration/

Classy move by McCain.

Post: #202

Post: #203

Post: #204

(10-19-2011 05:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  When you see a black or hispanic in upper education, remember that they need to do around 35% less work than a white or asian guy does to get the same results in our "education system".

Hi there!

I'm Athlone. I'm one of those minorities in upper-education you're talking about. I currently attend an Ivy League school. I'm a little late to this one, but thought I'd jump in. I understand that you do not take my aforementioned academic credentials seriously and likely never will given my ethnicity, but I figured I could at the very least offer some perspective on this subject, which I like to call "privilege".

I will speak from experience when I say this: for every minority male here that you assume doesn't deserve an Ivy education, there are 2-3 white males who are here for reasons other than their academic merit.

I have several family members who are administrators at Ivy League schools and the elite prep schools in New England that feed students to them. They see the numbers.

The lowest scores in each incoming Ivy class are not the downtrodden affirmative action charity cases you portray. They are elite, upper-class whites (usually males) from elite prep schools with very strong pedigrees and sometimes (not always), legacy. These are kids who come in here with 22-24 ACT scores (average score at my school is about 32 out of 36) and coast right through admissions. Your low-stat, bottom-of-the-class admit is more than likely a WASP as opposed to a minority.

How do they get in? Golden handshakes and facetime. That is how this world works-facetime is their god, and a very generous one at that. It is a very small world up here, and they take full advantage of that.

These kids walk in here, dick around for four years, graduate with a 2.8-3.0, and within a year or two after graduation they're set to takeover dad's hedgefund (or walk into another nice position dad's friends have kept warm for him). That is the reality. They've had the road to the Ivies smoothed and laid out for them since childhood.

Have you ever wondered how Ivy League athletics work? They're interesting.

Football here is highly regulated. Recruits must come in with academic credentials tied to those of the regular student populace.
To do this, you have a band system, which categorizes recruits every year.

Band 1: These kids have to be close to the average for the student populace. On the new SAT, they'll usually score around 2000 and up. The school average is about 2100-2150, so these guys are pretty much on par with your normal student.

Band 2: This is where most kids in the class end up. Scores here come at around 1800-1900. This is good, though well below the school's average. Most of these kids, by their own admission(they joke about it often enough among themselves) would not have gotten into the school without football.

Band 3: The lowest band. Kids here score from 1600-1700 or so.

Coaches are required to limit Band 3 takes to only about 2-3 recruits per class(out of around 30-35). Band 2 might get around 16-18 guys, and the rest will be in Band 1.

I know who the "low band" recruits were on my team for several of the years before or after me.
Hint: Only one of them was black. None were Hispanic or Asian.
In fact, they were almost uniformly white (just like the team itself).
(for the record, I got a 2100 and walked onto the team after I was admitted).

This type of deal goes for other sports too. In fact, it has been argued that some sports at these elite schools (ex: sailing, equestrian, squash, etc) are mere affirmative action positions for the elite. Nobody else competes in them at a high enough level in prep school to actually go D1 (only the rich can afford them and elite private schools are usually the only ones that offer the activities to begin with), and the only D1 schools that compete seriously in these sports are elite (Ivies, NESCAC, and a couple of others).

So, if you're an upper class white american and you want to guarantee your kid a spot in the Ivies, what do you do? Aside from networking and handing out golden handshakes, you can also put them on a boat from age 10 and get them into competitive sailing at the prep school. Even if their scores are below average, you can bet they'll get in as a recruit.

Of course, if you stood any one of these beneficiaries next to me without knowing much else, you'd assume a fairly positive vision of them. They look like the all-american good-ole Ivy boys: white, clean cut, good-looking, athletic, fairly well-spoken in social gatherings, wealthy (and thus quite well dressed). Mom and Dad both look nice and all are super cordial and social. They come from the nicest towns and the nicest schools, have the nicest jobs and drive the nicest cars.

Me? Well, I'm black. I just look like your typical stereotype of the black athlete: dark skinned, high on muscle and testosterone. I certainly don't "look smart". My mother works for the government-I've never seen my father. We drive a relatively affordable Japanese import(a lesser known brand at that). I don't have a pedigree among the social elite, nor a father to give golden handshakes to people for me. Being not nearly as wealthy as these guys, I don't dress as nicely, which to the casual observer would just solidify the image: those kids MUST just be superior, right?
This negro clearly doesn't belong here. He doesn't dress right and his family has no real status or prestige.

Accordingly, most people expect nothing of me.

Of course, in reality, these "all-american" kids are cheating off of me in class and pulling quarterly GPAs almost a point below my own. For all of the praise these kids receive for their pedigree and for the sheer wealth they possess (much of which their families are spending filling university endowments and paying massive tuitions for exclusive private academies, often since the kids were in kindergarten), they still need to copy my homework.

I can say concretely that they are not anymore academically sound than the vast majority of the other blacks on my team either, having seen examples of both their work. They know this, btw. Most of them aren't too arrogant about their position, and will admit their lack of academic acumen, going as far as to say they have no business in the ivies and "might not graduate"(though they always do, of course).

But everyone else will assume they are great, because they think just like you: those white kids belong here. They look the part. These kids come from "good" families and just look all-american. Plus, whites always work harder to get here than minorities. Black, hispanic and native american kids are just here for charity-they don't really belong.

White is right...right? RIGHT???

You keep thinking that.

Post: #205

(10-22-2011 01:45 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(10-19-2011 05:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  When you see a black or hispanic in upper education, remember that they need to do around 35% less work than a white or asian guy does to get the same results in our "education system".

Hi there!

I'm Athlone. I'm one of those minorities in upper-education you're talking about. I currently attend an Ivy League school. I'm a little late to this one, but thought I'd jump in. I understand that you do not take my aforementioned academic credentials seriously and likely never will given my ethnicity, but I figured I could at the very least offer some perspective on this subject, which I like to call "privilege".

I will speak from experience when I say this: for every minority male here that you assume doesn't deserve an Ivy education, there are 2-3 white males who are here for reasons other than their academic merit.

I have several family members who are administrators at Ivy League schools and the elite prep schools in New England that feed students to them. They see the numbers.

The lowest scores in each incoming Ivy class are not the downtrodden affirmative action charity cases you portray. They are elite, upper-class whites (usually males) from elite prep schools with very strong pedigrees and sometimes (not always), legacy. These are kids who come in here with 22-24 ACT scores (average score at my school is about 32 out of 36) and coast right through admissions. Your low-stat, bottom-of-the-class admit is more than likely a WASP as opposed to a minority.

How do they get in? Golden handshakes and facetime. That is how this world works-facetime is their god, and a very generous one at that. It is a very small world up here, and they take full advantage of that.

These kids walk in here, dick around for four years, graduate with a 2.8-3.0, and within a year or two after graduation they're set to takeover dad's hedgefund (or walk into another nice position dad's friends have kept warm for him). That is the reality. They've had the road to the Ivies smoothed and laid out for them since childhood.

Have you ever wondered how Ivy League athletics work? They're interesting.

Football here is highly regulated. Recruits must come in with academic credentials tied to those of the regular student populace.
To do this, you have a band system, which categorizes recruits every year.

Band 1: These kids have to be close to the average for the student populace. On the new SAT, they'll usually score around 2000 and up. The school average is about 2100-2150, so these guys are pretty much on par with your normal student.

Band 2: This is where most kids in the class end up. Scores here come at around 1800-1900. This is good, though well below the school's average. Most of these kids, by their own admission(they joke about it often enough among themselves) would not have gotten into the school without football.

Band 3: The lowest band. Kids here score from 1600-1700 or so.

Coaches are required to limit Band 3 takes to only about 2-3 recruits per class(out of around 30-35). Band 2 might get around 16-18 guys, and the rest will be in Band 1.

I know who the "low band" recruits were on my team for several of the years before or after me.
Hint: Only one of them was black. None were Hispanic or Asian.
In fact, they were almost uniformly white (just like the team itself).
(for the record, I got a 2100 and walked onto the team after I was admitted).

This type of deal goes for other sports too. In fact, it has been argued that some sports at these elite schools (ex: sailing, equestrian, squash, etc) are mere affirmative action positions for the elite. Nobody else competes in them at a high enough level in prep school to actually go D1 (only the rich can afford them and elite private schools are usually the only ones that offer the activities to begin with), and the only D1 schools that compete seriously in these sports are elite (Ivies, NESCAC, and a couple of others).

So, if you're an upper class white american and you want to guarantee your kid a spot in the Ivies, what do you do? Aside from networking and handing out golden handshakes, you can also put them on a boat from age 10 and get them into competitive sailing at the prep school. Even if their scores are below average, you can bet they'll get in as a recruit.

Of course, if you stood any one of these beneficiaries next to me without knowing much else, you'd assume a fairly positive vision of them. They look like the all-american good-ole Ivy boys: white, clean cut, good-looking, athletic, fairly well-spoken in social gatherings, wealthy (and thus quite well dressed). Mom and Dad both look nice and all are super cordial and social. They come from the nicest towns and the nicest schools, have the nicest jobs and drive the nicest cars.

Me? Well, I'm black. I just look like your typical stereotype of the black athlete: dark skinned, high on muscle and testosterone. I certainly don't "look smart". My mother works for the government-I've never seen my father. We drive a relatively affordable Japanese import(a lesser known brand at that). I don't have a pedigree among the social elite, nor a father to give golden handshakes to people for me. Being not nearly as wealthy as these guys, I don't dress as nicely, which to the casual observer would just solidify the image: those kids MUST just be superior, right?
This negro clearly doesn't belong here. He doesn't dress right and his family has no real status or prestige.

Accordingly, most people expect nothing of me.

Of course, in reality, these "all-american" kids are cheating off of me in class and pulling quarterly GPAs almost a point below my own. For all of the praise these kids receive for their pedigree and for the sheer wealth they possess (much of which their families are spending filling university endowments and paying massive tuitions for exclusive private academies, often since the kids were in kindergarten), they still need to copy my homework.

I can say concretely that they are not anymore academically sound than the vast majority of the other blacks on my team either, having seen examples of both their work. They know this, btw. Most of them aren't too arrogant about their position, and will admit their lack of academic acumen, going as far as to say they have no business in the ivies and "might not graduate"(though they always do, of course).

But everyone else will assume they are great, because they think just like you: those white kids belong here. They look the part. These kids come from "good" families and just look all-american. Plus, whites always work harder to get here than minorities. Black, hispanic and native american kids are just here for charity-they don't really belong.

White is right...right? RIGHT???

You keep thinking that.

Dude give me a break. Typical black guy spouting off about whites(specifically white males) while simultaneously wanting to fuck/marry any white woman that looks his way. Van Jones, Julian Bond, MLK,etc....I swear the rhetoric never changes SMH.

Post: #206

(10-22-2011 02:02 AM)Jason Zee Wrote:  Dude give me a break. Typical black guy spouting off about whites(specifically white males) while simultaneously wanting to fuck/marry any white woman that looks his way. Van Jones, Julian Bond, MLK,etc....I swear the rhetoric never changes SMH.

You're right, because none of what I said above is valid (as you've so clearly shown in your rebuttal).

If conjectural ad-hominem makes you feel better, then by all means, continue.

Edit: One more thing I also found interesting.

The user I responded to above basically started off by implying that, when it comes to the highest levels of education in this society, whites generally work harder than minorities (35% more, in his estimation) to get the same results. He tacitly implies that minorities get to skate by on factors aside from their academic merit while also implying that whites do not do this. This is a statement that can be seen as basically an attempt to demerit any highly educated minority.

I responded by stating that this isn't the case, and plenty of whites also get in on merits that are less than academic, despite the perception that they do not benefit from affirmative action-like phenomena.

You take offense to this as some sort of attack on all white males.

So, if I'm hearing you correctly:
It is ok for one to attack the credibility/intellectual capacity of minorities and claim them to generally be sub-standard academically as compared to whites(35% below par, in fact). Yet when a minority responds and states that this isn't necessarily an accurate portrayal of our current academic environment, its just useless, "typical black guy" talk(never mind the fact that I quite specifically stated blacks were not the only minorities included in my discussion), and "smh" worthy rhetoric.
You get to play by one set of rules, and I get another.

Now THAT is telling.

Post: #207

I did a pre-freshman year program at Penn that was basically comprised of like 30-40 Black students, me, and one other Asian guy. All of us were incoming freshmen. The program was called the Africana studies program. I made a lot of friends through here that have lasted me up through today.

I can testify that the vast majority of these people were on par or smarter than the average Penn student. I know the sample size isn't that big but based on my experience I never felt that they were less qualified than the average Asian to be in the ivy league - and I'd argue that being an Asian trying to get into the ivy league is harder than being White and getting into the ivy league.

Having said that, it's not like I was tracking their academic performance or anything. This is all based on projects, assignments, and conversations I had with them during this program specifically.

My two cents. I don't want to get dragged into a race war.

Post: #208

It shouldnt matter about what skin color you are, or who your parents are / know to get into a university.

It should come down to simply grades and sports. Some people argue dumb sport athletes shouldnt be allowed into good schools but sports is a big business in college so something has to give, which im fine with.

Post: #209

Athlone McGinnis great post, but you are also wasting your time. His mind is made up, and is isnt a discussion, more of a lecture / rant....

Post: #210

(10-22-2011 04:26 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  It shouldnt matter about what skin color you are, or who your parents are / know to get into a university.

It should come down to simply grades and sports. Some people argue dumb sport athletes shouldnt be allowed into good schools but sports is a big business in college so something has to give, which im fine with.

Grades and SPORTS?


Damn Dash, I know you are a self proclaimed "social conservative", but you sure you never hit that crack pipe down in North Carolina?


Why the fuck should sports have anything to do with getting into a university, unless you're going to be a starting football player at Ohio State, or point guard for UNC.


Otherwise who gives a fuck about sports? It's not like Joe Schmo's football skills are going to do anything for him in the real world when he graduates from his Division III school.


Dash, you seem like a good bro, and I relate to you in your taste in women, but you seem like the talking piece for the mainstream, confused American.

Maybe you should apply for the next season of MTV's the "real world".

Post: #211

OGNor,

I dont wanna watch non athletically gifted kids play football and basketball.

Most of the D1 athletes for football and basketball would not be able to get accepted into these Universities.

I guess you dont watch or care about high level athletics in college?

I do. No way in hell 95% of the players on UNC's bball team would be able to get accepted into the University of North Carolina without getting that "sports curve".

So its either

A) You want the best athletes and talent on the field

B) You dont care about the talent on the field

If you pick A then sports must play a role in getting accepted into college aka there must be a sports curve.

Not saying one of the other is right. I simply am for option/theory A.

Cant knock you if you dont care about college athletics and want admission to be solely about grades.

To each his own.

Post: #212

(10-22-2011 09:23 AM)ea303 Wrote:  Athlone McGinnis great post, but you are also wasting your time. His mind is made up, and is isnt a discussion, more of a lecture / rant....

I concur, its a total waste of time having this type of discussion with people who will not even acknowledge White Privilege. Informative post by Atholone nevertheless. You see the same dynamic that Athlone explained in NYC with good paying entry level jobs that just until relatively recently have started to be opened to Blacks/Latinos like Construction trades, Firemen, Police, etc. White guys on those jobs love to bitch and moan about fairness and "lowering standards" yet turn a blind eye and are silent to the sizable number of White guys who got those jobs over a beer and an handshake.

Quote:How do they get in? Golden handshakes and facetime. That is how this world works-facetime is their god, and a very generous one at that. It is a very small world up here, and they take full advantage of that.

Post: #213

Really interesting post Athlone. Anyone who has seen that george bush went to a top school has to figure something fishy is going on. Also similar disadvantages will apply to your average middle class white guy with little money or connections.

Post: #214

All this bellyaching about white privilege is tiresome.

College admissions should be blind. You only have to look at the average SAT/ACT scores of different racial groups at the Ivy's or other selective schools to see that there is a lot of affirmative action going on. Ward Connerly had the right idea about this: get the government and educational institutions out of the race business.

Anyways, back to the original topic:

It looks like Romney and Perry are going to duke it out for the repub nomination. Any guess who will win? I think in the end Romney will be the one who gets it.

Post: #215

White Privilege

1) You are the default person. For example, if two people are having a conversation, one may recount how his day went and say,"Oh, I was at the gas station waiting in line, and this black dude in front of me was arguing with the Indian cashier over a stupid lottery ticket."

When having conversation, if you are not white, then people will specify your race, as if you are not American or are not normal while the opposite rarely ever happens (e.g., a two black people having a conversation saying a white man cut him off at the intersection, etc.)

2) If you are a missing pretty white woman, the media will go crazy for weeks if not months about you. It is as if the U.S. will send their CIA operatives to search after you.

Examples:

Laci Peterseon
Natalee Holloway
Jennifer Wilbanks
Elizabeth Smart
Taylor Behl
JonBenet Ramsey
Chandra Levy

You probably recognize a few of these names.

What about Romana Moore, a missing black woman? Ever heard of her? When her mother asked the police for help, they said,"Lady, why are you calling here? Your daughter is 21." Moore's mother got no help from the police, so she called the press, but the press were not interested. Moore's mother made flyers and passed them out. The police would not help until after 4 days after she went missing. The detective gave up on the case after spending less time on the case than the police. The next day, the day before Mother's Day, her body was found--not by the police--but under an old ice cream truck just a few blocks from her house.

Missing black women you've probably never about:

Marcie Crane
Tamika Hutson
Shirley Geanes
LaToyia Figuerora
Phylicia Moore
Stepha Henry
Nailah Franklin
Theresa Bunn
Latasha Norman

3) If you are white the police will not stop you for no good reason. Or shoot you unless you are clearly well armed. They will even keep your neighborhood safe.

4) If you are white, you are more likely to be given the benefit of the doubt strangeres, moreso if you are well-dresssed.

5) White history month is the longest month--it never seems to end.

6) News is told from the white point of view and reports on things that interest white people, like missing white women.

7) If you are a white woman, society's idea of beauty looks just like you. Black women's beauty is conformed to white women (e.g., relaxed hair, lighter skin, etc.)

Post: #216

(10-22-2011 05:57 PM)Easy E Wrote:  All this bellyaching about white privilege is tiresome.

It is also entirely legitimate, and you will not be able to show otherwise.

Quote:College admissions should be blind. You only have to look at the average SAT/ACT scores of different racial groups at the Ivy's or other selective schools to see that there is a lot of affirmative action going on. Ward Connerly had the right idea about this: get the government and educational institutions out of the race business.

Meanwhile, we'll let the many whites who already benefit from golden handshakes and unspoken agreements over beers (and always have) continue to toss their privilege around to the exclusion of minorities.

Because we all know that even when whites do this on a regular basis (again, often to the complete exclusion of minorities as playa_with_a_passport mentioned), they are not really benefiting from anything close to affirmative action and it can still safely be assumed that they "work harder" (35% harder, in fact) than minorities. There's no need for government or anyone else to do anything about that.

Nobody will complain about the golden handshake or the union making exclusionary hiring decisions over beers, but when one attempts to push back against such exclusionary things with legislation/regulation and thus try to give minorities some help, its suddenly unfair and unpatriotic. Such non-merit based practices are dangerous to "equality", "fairness" and the hard-working american way...unless whites engage in them, in which case they are nothing to be concerned about.

You guys were right up there, this probably is a waste of time.

I'll let it be. The good conservative "patriots" around here are free to think as they wish, so long as they are not surprised when folks (both "minorities" and many "majorities") manage to clearly see how blatantly transparent, prejudicial, ignorant and self-serving this kind of logic really is.

Post: #217

(10-22-2011 09:45 PM)blurb Wrote:  7) If you are a white woman, society's idea of beauty looks just like you. Black women's beauty is conformed to white women (e.g., relaxed hair, lighter skin, etc.)

People take this for granted, but it's hard to imagine what the world would be like if it was the opposite. If white women had to conform to black standards. So white women would be getting very dark tans, the only attractive white women would be the ones mixed with black, the ones that have long straight hair would have to get dreadlocks or perm it into an afro if they want a decent job and to be taken seriously in the workforce. They should have the thicker lips like Angelina Jolie. They should also have big asses. If they don't have the black woman's ass there's something wrong with them. That would be hard for people to even fathom, but the reverse is reality. I remember when the Obama daughters had their hair in these twists(I guess it was too "afrocentric" looking for some white people's comfort), they got criticized and people were saying their hair is not fit for a presidential family.

Post: #218

^^^

Thank god the above isnt reality. My pool for attractive women would be gashed by a tune of prob 80%!

Eh it might not be as bad as i thought. I dont think non black females would be able to get dark enough to were it would cause me not to be attracted to them anymore.

And even if they some did manage to get dark black it wouldnt change the contours of the face and body. Although when given the choice between a light skinned hb8 and a dark skinned hb8 im gonna take the light skinned one every time!

Post: #219

Dash, if you were born into a world where that was the reality, you would see it as normal and not even think about it. You're saying what you said above because you know nothing else but what you're already accustomed to.

Anyway folks...I think Obama is going to win by a slim margin. The Republican party is so disjointed, so polarizing, so dysfunctional and without any real message or tangible solutions. All they say is cut taxes but haven't demonstrated how cutting taxes will produce a single job.

Post: #220

(10-23-2011 12:33 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  Dash, if you were born into a world where that was the reality, you would see it as normal and not even think about it. You're saying what you said above because you know nothing else but what you're already accustomed to.

I think Dash would benefit from a psychedelic mushroom trip.

Post: #221

(10-23-2011 12:33 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  Dash, if you were born into a world where that was the reality, you would see it as normal and not even think about it. You're saying what you said above because you know nothing else but what you're already accustomed to.

This would imply that EVERYONE follows the social norms which is CLEARLY not the case.

So you nor I would know for sure how I would "see" it.

Post: #222

Athlone, your argument is:

Because rich white kids have unfair advantages, blacks deserve unfair advantages.

That's as bad an argument as feminists who claim that since male CEO's make 37% (or whatever) more money than female CEO's, women deserve to have paid maternity leave and other special advantages.

Most whites aren't rich, and never will be. You've heard about them - the 99%. Guess they deserve to be discriminated against because of affirmative action?

It's also a shitty argument because rich blacks exist in African countries and rich latino's exist in South American countries who get into the best schools due to connections. Why aren't you advocating affirmative action in those countries to level the playing field for poor whites?

By the way, I never said you or any other black couldn't get in to an Ivy without affirmative action, nor did I ever imply it. All I said was that unrepresented minorities currently need to do 35% less work as your average whitey/asian. That this is unfair is highlighted by your need to defend yourself from insinuations that you might not have gotten your ivy cred without affirmative action.

As to whether or not I believe you are an intelligent man or not - I do, but not because of your school. Intelligence isn't represented by things like a pedigree or grades. Your quality of writing and analysis is well above average, however, and is indictative of your reasoning powers.

Post: #223

(10-23-2011 01:49 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Athlone, your argument is:

Because rich white kids have unfair advantages, blacks deserve unfair advantages.

Incorrect.

(10-22-2011 10:05 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Because we all know that even when whites do this on a regular basis (again, often to the complete exclusion of minorities as playa_with_a_passport mentioned)...
...Nobody will complain about the golden handshake or the union making exclusionary hiring decisions over beers,

As playa noted above, it happens at all levels of this society. Rich white kids pull it off with golden handshakes, and poor blue collar unions do the same when they grandfather each into positions and deny minorities access to quality jobs (forcing legislation to correct this).

The problem is society wide, and it always has been. This is not a concern exclusive to the 1%.

Post: #224

So it's rich white kids AND unions. That makes the top 2%.

So because the top 2% of whites get it easy, all minorities deserve to have it easy. Still a terrible argument.

And of course anything you say about connected whites applies to connected blacks or connected latinos in their respective countries, but for some reason no one cares about any countries except the white ones.

The real reason affirmative action is in place is so the brainwashed blacks/latinos will continue to vote for democrats. Democrats are just doing what they do best: buying votes, and selling out their fellow whites.

Post: #225

(10-23-2011 09:33 AM)Samseau Wrote:  So because the top 2% of whites get it easy, all minorities deserve to have it easy. Still a terrible argument.

Well it's a straw man argument that you made up. "All minorities deserve to have it easy". No one said that but you.