Post: #26

(07-05-2018 04:37 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  Saweep I believe the study/thread said lower class men like big butts and tits "thick" (not obese woman) and rich men like skinny broads with minimal curves.

I am working class and I take big butt tits and a little baby fat over skinny (so the study applies in my case.)

You're right, hence my use of the term "fatter".

Nobody likes obese women!

Post: #27

Generally fat and pasty was a sign of wealth and wealth was the most desirable trait in a female in that era. It was also seen as more likely to be fertile for an added bonus because more kids means more arranged marriages to acquire titles.

Basically if you were fat it meant two things, you ate well and you didn't have to exercise regularly (ie work in a field) so you were well off. Pasty was also related to the not working in a field.

Having said that, it's still not what was considered "hot" if that makes sense, when people talk about the most attractive people from those eras it was still the slim and busty combination that won out.

Mostly though people married for status and wealth not for a hot piece of ass, that's what mistresses were for.

On top of that the majority of the pieces of art are commissioned by the wealthy and they generally want the subject to look like them even if the painting is of some other historical figure so you have the wealthy women getting paintings done for them, often of them, and those women tended to be the overweight sort as that was one way of showing your status and wealth.

Post: #28

Fatties are always trying some new justification for being pigs. Yawn.

In reality, men have always found women with "good habits" to be attractive.

200 years ago a women with a little extra on her ass was a successful women. A skinny woman with leathery brown skin was a loser.

In today's world, fat women are the losers who can't control themselves and have no self-esteem. So they aren't sexy.

Post: #29

I am aware that this thread is about western civilization, but I thought I'd share an Indian statue:

Didarganj Yakshi 2nd century BC



WYB?

Post: #30

(07-05-2018 05:03 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

I'm just going to throw a blanket WB at this one, excluding the dude, of course.

Post: #31

(07-05-2018 04:07 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  We've had this topic before. Cannot even be bothered to find the articles. But the gist is this:

When there is rampant malnourishment, high mortality of mothers and children like during those times, then you find the ideal suddenly go more "fat" and well-nourished. That used to be the case during the times those paintings were done in Europe. Most women were way too thin. The age 30-35 argument is overblown by the way since that was already rising in that time and they calculated the age 35 in the previous middle ages by adding all the 50% child deaths and the deaths due to the plague and war. The ones who did not get the plague or die during childhood lived to be 70-90.

Still - before the potato came from the Americas and saved Europe, then the medieval mini-ice age caused massive difficulties. Men began to want women who were well-fed to survive childbirth and give them healthy heirs.

As soon as the extreme food poverty ended, then so did their infatuation with the fatties.

This has by the way been replicated a few decades ago in a study done on that very topic in an African country that experienced massive food shortages. The very same thing was observed - the fat Nubian women were suddenly highly valued as slim women were often dead women or produced dead offspring. But then shortly after food was plenty again the men returned to preferring slim athletic young women just as nature had intended.

So the paradox is - the biggest fat-acceptance happens only when 90% of women are starving and dying.

I am sure you can find some articles to the studies if you keep on looking.

We don't know how many sexy-bodied women there were at the time and how likely they were to have been portrayed in art like this. If half the women were malnurished-thin and the other half were slightly pudgy, but soft and girlish-- that might have influenced what artists would portray. It doesn't mean that in the right circumstances, men wouldn't choose the tightest, curviest ass they could manage when the chips were down.

Also, we don't even know for sure what this painting is supposed to portray. Even today, you have a significant difference between fashion models and glamour models. Fashion models tend to be tall and thin with boyish features that appeal to gay clothing designers, while glamour models tend to have feminine sexual features that appeal to straight male dicks. Movie characters aimed at women tend to be "pretty-but-not-too-pretty" like Bella Swan from Twilight or Rey from Star Wars. Or you'll see an older, used-to-be-hot actress like Jennifer Love Hewitt in a lifetime movie. When the goal is sex appeal for men, you see very beautiful female characters like Megan Fox's character in Transformers or Giselle Itié's character in The Expendables.

Post: #32

We know well enough what body types were most common. Europe was extremely malnourished in certain areas and times -right before the potato came over.

These were the times those fatties were put up in many paintings. In addition with the example from Africa we as Red Pill men can estimate well enough why this was taking place. 50% malnourished is too low. Most people don't have any idea how malnourished Europe truly was between 1000-1500. Historians in those times who knew India and Europe commented that the average lower-class Indian was better nourished than the slightly more well-off European. Of course this was not prevalent in all countries, but I don't think that the fat-vs-malnourishment assumption is wrong.

Post: #33

(07-06-2018 10:42 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  We know well enough what body types were most common. Europe was extremely malnourished in certain areas and times -right before the potato came over.

These were the times those fatties were put up in many paintings. In addition with the example from Africa we as Red Pill men can estimate well enough why this was taking place. 50% malnourished is too low. Most people don't have any idea how malnourished Europe truly was between 1000-1500. Historians in those times who knew India and Europe commented that the average lower-class Indian was better nourished than the slightly more well-off European. Of course this was not prevalent in all countries, but I don't think that the fat-vs-malnourishment assumption is wrong.

All I'm saying is that it doesn't necessarily mean that chubby was the ideal body, just that an artist at the time may have had no motive or inspiration to portray anything else.

Post: #34

(07-06-2018 02:08 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

(07-06-2018 10:42 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  We know well enough what body types were most common. Europe was extremely malnourished in certain areas and times -right before the potato came over.

These were the times those fatties were put up in many paintings. In addition with the example from Africa we as Red Pill men can estimate well enough why this was taking place. 50% malnourished is too low. Most people don't have any idea how malnourished Europe truly was between 1000-1500. Historians in those times who knew India and Europe commented that the average lower-class Indian was better nourished than the slightly more well-off European. Of course this was not prevalent in all countries, but I don't think that the fat-vs-malnourishment assumption is wrong.

All I'm saying is that it doesn't necessarily mean that chubby was the ideal body, just that an artist at the time may have had no motive or inspiration to portray anything else.

Art back then was idealistic - actually up until the late 19th century that was the case.

We can also assume that our internal instinctual perceptions of beauty don't change.

So what motivated some Europeans to shift their ideal that much?

The plague, malnourishment, poverty, little ice age, bad harvests for decades, 50%+ child mortality with well-fed women birthing more living offspring. Art was for the privileged classes, but I think that the overall circumstances colored their perceptions.

Of course we cannot say for sure that this was the case, but it's a good educated Red Pill guess. I don't need to be married to that, but I think that it's the most logical explanation.

Certainly it's not the feminist ones which claims that times change and men can be indoctrinated to love fatties!

Post: #35

(07-05-2018 05:03 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

WB nymphs

(07-06-2018 12:28 AM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

Obvious bolt-ons, missing an arm.

2/10, WNB Yakshni

Post: #36

(07-04-2018 07:54 PM)bluemarvel Wrote:  If you look at a lot of classical art, a lot of the women were drawn to be overweight. Can someone more knowledgeable than me elaborate on this?
Did fat chicks used to be the most desirable type of women in old western societies or something?

No. These paintings depict 11 level of Dante's Inferno wherein inveterate players were forced to live forever in a land of fat chicks.

Fat ugly white chicks like my sister struggled with getting sex for several millennia until the invention of black dudes in... I think 1960 or something. Don't they teach this stuff in history class anymore? Our school system has really gone downhill.

Post: #37

(07-07-2018 02:15 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  Fat ugly white chicks like my sister struggled with getting sex.....

Until I got ahold of her.



Aloha!

Post: #38

I watched the movie Black Sheep the other day with Chris Farley, who I remember being an obese fat fuck, but by today's standards he hardly moves the needle.

Post: #39

Another point for my assumption that malnourishment creates and idealized version of fatties:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science...finds.html

Quote:Hungry men crave bigger women, study finds

European men have been very hungry in those times. The painting above was such an extreme rarity back then that it's tantamount to a 200 18 year old 10s in a night club in Toronto with no men in sight.

You too would be dumbfounded standing before that sight.

Post: #40

Also what is popular in art might be different than what is popular with the typical man.

Like the ideal body type of fashion models is different than the ideal body type of maxim magazine models if you know what I mean.