Post: #1

So, this is just my personal opinion. I find that cold approaches are way easier than online dating and swiping. Plus, they're more fun. You basically just go out to a bar and start talking to women. For all intents and purposes, you're already on the date once you're having drinks with her, instead of exchanging all kinds of boring messages hoping she doesn't flake. If she's uninterested, you simply move on to the next one or play on your phone and read ROK.

Candidly, I have not gotten much on Bumble or Tinder (though I used to do well on OkCupid). Although it seems easy just to swipe while sitting in your office or on your couch, it also ends up with a of messages that go nowhere and dates that end up in failure.

I find cold approaches to be more efficient and enjoyable. There is something more fun about approaching a woman in person than swiping and sending messages.

Caveat: I live in a big city, and live within walking distance to many decent hipster bars. (other caveat: you can blow through a lot of money doing cold approaches).

That being said, I was having a fun discussion in PMs about approaches. I've sort of narrowed down my "greatest hits of" over the last five years, and now it comes pretty naturally.

These are my thoughts...

1. Eye contact and posture is the most important part. Grin, squint, use hand gestures, spread out, and laugh loudly. Own the room. You're king. Added points for style, fitness, etc. But you can get away with most things just by using hand gestures, telling stories, using good posture, making eye contact, and being engaging.

2. Keep everything light. Ask questions that aren't "interview" questions. No one enjoys talking about their job, finances, school obligations, taxes, etc. Questions I like to ask: "Where did you grow up?" "What did you like about it?" "What's the best vacation you ever took?" "Have you ever tried [xyz beer]?" "What do you think my buddy here does for a living?" "What's the best thing on this menu that won't make me fat?" "What is the difference between Splenda and Equal?" "What is Crossfit all about?"

Keep it really fun and light. Get her talking, and keep her talking. People like to talk about themselves and random stuff.

3. Never talk about these subjects: your job, your finances, politics, cryptocurrency, game, or pretty much anything of substance. I think it was Roosh who said this, but watch old episodes of Seinfeld. Talk about random dumb shit. The color of sugar packets, the size of ice cubes, your favorite class at the gym. Whatever. This is an easy way of building comfort. You can easily fuckup a set by being too arrogant, stating your love of Trump, or trying too hard to express how cool you are. It's virtually impossible to fuckup a set by talking about really benign shit.

4. Confidence. Confidence, confidence, confidence. If she starts playing with her phone, just walk away and go talk to someone else. Don't be rude about it. Sometimes you'll also approach a set, get blown out, and then 20 minutes later the girls feel like talking. As long as you're not being creepy, they're not going to freak out because you asked what's good on the menu and whether they've ever had the Imperial Stout. Keep everything very light until you've escalated, and it's hard to get blown out.

5. Have a "spot" where you know the bartenders, the servers, and the staff. You can always go out alone and use them as your wings. Bring them into your conversations, like you're all in on an inside joke. Preferably close to your house. Logistics are half the battle. (GI JOE!)

6. Don't talk about yourself, even if you have a "high value" profession. A huge mistake I see guys make is trying to turn the whole conversation into them, their job, their money, their house, their band, whatever. When it comes to cold approaches, just ask fun softball questions about topics that are enjoyable to talk about. The less you talk about yourself, the better. Let them figure it out.

7. Just do it. Approach. You can say almost any random shit and just start up a conversation. In about 90% of instances, the very worst thing that happens is you end up having a conversation. Then they're like "it was nice meeting you, but I have to go." You can't win the game if you don't play the game.

8. If you sing decently, this is a surprisingly good way to approach women. If a song comes on and you know the lyrics, just walk up and start singing to her. ("People talk about me baby, say I been doin' you wroooong, but don't you worry baby, don't you worry momma, cuz I'm right here at hooome...") This takes a high level of confidence and very good vibe. Insanely effective.

9. I keep it simple and only approach either girls who are out by themselves, or groups of girls only. It's easier. They're single about 60% of the time. I've found that the sweet spot is usually two girls out together. You can also volley easier. Plus, you can just be like "I don't mean to butt into your conversation, but blah blah blah... you girls look like you could use a shot."

10. Don't go for kino right away. You've got to build comfort first. If you start groping her 10 seconds into the conversation, she's going to label you as "creepy." It's imperative to build comfort before going for kino. Maybe if you're really good looking you can get away with this, but I'd say about 70% of my game is built in comfort. We talk, we hang out, we have some mutual friends, we do shots, we laugh, and then I go fairly subtle. Comfort is built more quickly if you have mutual friends.

I'd like to hear all your thoughts on this.

Post: #2

I need another On thread like I need air. But seriously, good post.

Post: #3

Quote:3. Never talk about these subjects: your job, your finances, politics, cryptocurrency, game, or pretty much anything of substance. I think it was Roosh who said this, but watch old episodes of Seinfeld. Talk about random dumb shit. The color of sugar packets, the size of ice cubes, your favorite class at the gym. Whatever. This is an easy way of building comfort. You can easily fuckup a set by being too arrogant, stating your love of Trump, or trying too hard to express how cool you are. It's virtually impossible to fuckup a set by talking about really benign shit.

Tangential, but at my bartending job(s) I've seen some hilarious pick up attempts by dudes who try way too hard by bringing up random stuff about themselves. Up to and including the above. I saw a guy try and pick up a MILF by talking about how many Harleys he had, how he takes shit from no one, and how he's not afraid to throw down. She was not impressed. That being said, if I had to choose talking about harley's or your job...I'd pick harleys. But still, they know who's trying hard and who isn't, subject matter notwithstanding.

Being a badass is cool...telling people you're a badass isn't.

Post: #4

These are all great tips and I agree on your philosophy on approaching being more fun than online. However, I think it is really hard to have a discussion on "approaching". There's so many different types of approaches that it is difficult to come with even general guidelines.

As an example, when you say "don't go for kino right away", for me that's not always true. At a high energy nightclub, I usually "kino" within 10 seconds, and often kiss her within 30 seconds; meanwhile, if I'm talking to a girl at a coffee shop, I'll probably try to grab her number without touching her at all. It really depends on the situation.

That being said, a few basic tips:
- Some girls are clearly interested in you to where once you open them, they can basically beg you to fuck them. Some girls are not interested and it doesn't matter how confident/cool you come across or how clever your opener is. The majority are somewhere in the middle ("maybe" girls), which is where game comes into play. You'll never know if you don't try.

- Situational openers work by far the best in my experience. Observations about somebody else in the venue, about the neighborhood, etc. In the absence of a situational opener, go with something that you're comfortable saying. "How are you doing?" said confidently with a smile will do just fine. In reality, what you say doesn't matter too much... its how you say it and how you present yourself.

- To really make a cold approach stick with a "maybe" girl, you have to find a hook, and you have to find it reasonably quickly before the energy dies out. This can come down to luck, but when you frequent specific venues/neighborhoods, you eventually understand what type of girls you're likely to see, so you can lead the conversation in that direction.

Post: #5

Zoom, I chuckled out loud, but it's true -- this is a great use of "On X".

Hank: great "On X", and I agree with your points (and have described some of my own in scattered other threads), so will leave that discussion to others.

Instead, I'd like to dive into your contextual preface to the points:

Quote: So, this is just my personal opinion. I find that cold approaches are way easier than online dating and swiping. Plus, they're more fun. You basically just go out to a bar and start talking to women. For all intents and purposes, you're already on the date once you're having drinks with her, instead of exchanging all kinds of boring messages hoping she doesn't flake. If she's uninterested, you simply move on to the next one or play on your phone and read ROK.

100% agreed, though sometimes staying present with eyes open (and avoiding the TV or phone) can help keep me open to opps. Other times, reading mode is fine, as long as it doesn't tire me or get me thinking about negative topics.

Quote: Candidly, I have not gotten much on Bumble or Tinder (though I used to do well on OkCupid). Although it seems easy just to swipe while sitting in your office or on your couch, it also ends up with a of messages that go nowhere and dates that end up in failure.

Theory time: I think if you look at the general internet usage, there was an interesting golden era of online dating:

Decade ... demographic 'chart' incoming:

1990s: nerds / geeks, very male ... desktop computers ... doing nerdy stuff: [online dating for trolls and fuglies, occasional chatroom success]

2000s: most people, skewed to male ... mostly desktop/laptop ... doing many things: [classic era OKCupid, "writing well counts", could be legit cute girls if shy or bookish, fewer prime hotties and thus fewer chads, more guy losers. so a smooth, good-verbals guy can clean up on shy cute ones and then they tell their friends they met at the bar.]

2010s: everyone .... mostly mobile and waning desktop/laptop ... doing EVERYTHING: [from sourcing a fuck, to signing an auto lease or finding a mortgage, it's no longer a nerds or male thing, online dating stigma is minimal. from "dating website" to "hookup mobile app". less arbitrage as now this represents normal "meatspace", top competitors in both sexes. "writing a great profile" doesn't matter.]

I swore off online dating in around '08 (end of golden era) -- online had helped me get my date+escalation+closing game down, but I knew I was atrophying on approach, so I went cold turkey.

Then in maybe '13 I tried some swiping, but because my cold approach and everything else already strong, I found meh returns and honestly refused to get down with pics / social media / swiping during my free time.

I doubled down on cold approach ever since, and quality has risen. Quantity has been as good as the effort I put in, and I get way more efficient over time (i.e. natural sniping on better filter, zero outcome dependence, combine with stuff I do anyway).

It's all about finding YOUR method that fits your lifestyle, and you have to have some game and lifestyle already in order to solely rely on it (or not! do you!).

Quote: I find cold approaches to be more efficient and enjoyable. There is something more fun about approaching a woman in person than swiping and sending messages.

Agreed.

Quote: Caveat: I live in a big city, and live within walking distance to many decent hipster bars. (other caveat: you can blow through a lot of money doing cold approaches).

Agreed, and the BIGGEST reason people argue -- it's one thing to visit a big city, it's another to have some roots there so you have the confidence and aura to sniper your stomping grounds. You should know where to go that's free or cheap, and let the city be your wing.

Obviously looks and other attributes matter, but I've had some buddies who used the "lock down venue, be gregarious and HAND MOTIONS" to secure many a cute young thang who never would have swiped them otherwise. They were the situational bad-ass.

Post: #6

Good post as always.
If I can add one small thing is the more you approach, the more natural this will come. As Hank says above confidence is key. I think this is the most important point above. Women love confidence. There will be 100 messages on her tinder/okc/etc... but few guys with balls to go talk to her directly!
I hope the goal of everyone doing approaches, direct or indirect, is to make this part of your life, to make this a natural thing like grabbing a coffee at this nice place you saw across the street. In that moment you would not need to remember your openers, your scripted lines and everything you've read before, it will be a muscle memory to adjust your posture, the eye contact, the conversation topics etc...

Post: #7

Great post!

Too many times, I stop in my tracks and don't approach because I am too concerned with others overhearing me and watching me.

Post: #8

Well instead of opening girls when you approach you can automatically friend zone all girls within eye shot. At this point anything goes. I talk about whatever the fuck I feel like talking about.

I don't really approach girls as though they are females and I'm a male. I approach people and just carry on about whatever random shit I'm thinking about. Not too long ago I carried on to some girl about my ball sack sticking to the inside of my leg as I was adjusting myself. She started carrying on about her tit sweat that day. At any rate we ended up debating over whats worse - having balls or tits.

Never hesitate to be inappropriate with all people. You'd be surprised how many people are refreshed to have a inappropriate conversation without feeling like they are going to be judged for what they say.

Humans think about some really fucked up shit all day long.

Best way to approach anyone including girls is be a shit talker. Not shit talking in the sense of starting a fight. Just basic talking shit to people. Call them out for doing or saying something stupid in a playful and humorous manner. If they try to get weird on you just hold your ground and stand by everything that comes out of your mouth. Never apologize if they get offended, just double down.

A lot of guys I meet out will say something completely fucking logical to me and rope me into a logical level headed conversation. Talking to males sucks for this reason alone. Girls are really good at saying and doing stupid illogical shit. Should not be hard to engage a girl based on this alone. A girls words are like the fish in the barrel. It requires very little brain power as all I need to do is start shooting from the hip while touching hers.

Post: #9

About the "On ..." thing.

I was a philosophy major in college.

It's a subtle reference to Plutarch, who wrote stuff like "On Sparta", "On Isis and Osiris", "On the Malice of Herodotus", etc.

Figured you guys would get it.

Post: #10

I focus more on pre-socratic philosophy, it's more interesting to learn how to create an asshole than how to be one.

"Enter" I was a Physics major in college.

Post: #11

Also, these are all really good points.

I'll add a few things...

- Nightclub game isn't my scene. Maybe kino works differently there. It's not something I'd be qualified to write about. I just pick up girls at places in my neighborhood. It's usually a restaurant, bar, the pool, gym, etc. Unless it's in my house, loud music annoys me. There might be different approaches to different venues. I don't really go to concerts, nightclubs, etc. I'm sure you can pull a lot of women from there, it's just not something I find particularly enjoyable.

- I love situational openers. I think they're the most effective. "Did you see that new coffee shop going in across the street?" "Who did your tattoos?" I don't treat approaches like "approaches." I sit down, play on my phone, maybe take a call, and then turn to the girl next to me and ask her what she's drinking. Then I'll go back to my phone. Then I'll make more conversation; probably bring the bartender in on it. I tend to stick to places where I know the staff.

Caveat: I am not big into negs. "Did you see that dude's man bun?" "Are you really drinking Miller Lite?" "Do you think that girl's boobs are real?" Personally, I keep everything real positive. "Wow, that dude has the coolest dog, do you think it would be weird if I ask him to pet it? Let's go pet his dog." "This bartender is so fun; she knows all the best whiskeys."

- My approaches are never outcome oriented. I'll just start talking to a girl and let the conversation go where it goes. Even if we don't hookup, she might be cool to talk to or introduce me to a friend down the road. The bigger your social network, the more girls you'll meet. She might be a bartender at some trendy place or something. Needless to say, build your social network. A lot of the girls I've met over the last year have been through other female friends. Also, sometimes a "no" today is a "yes" next week if you can keep it casual.

- Have fun with it. Walk up, talk to girls and just enjoy yourself. Don't treat them as "approaches", just treat it as you're talking to people and to have a good time. If they don't want to talk, who cares? Usually they will, though, if your game is good. Whether it leads to a bang is an entirely different subject.

- Always tip well. Over 20%. When the staff knows you're going to leave a nice tip, they'll treat you like a local celebrity when you're talking to women. They'll call you by first name, know what you're drinking, etc. This is incredibly helpful. "Hi Hank! How's your sister? Your usual?"

- Personally, I like going out with a wing. I treat this shit like sport. If I get rejected, who cares? I literally have exactly what I walked in the door with, except a few less dollars that I'll just make during the week anyway. Wings are like having a buddy at the gym - you both push each other.

Caveat: negging your wing is totally lame. Absolutely totally fucking lame. You want to talk to girls and introduce your wing as God's gift to womankind. If you neg your wing, you kill both your chances. You two should be feeding off each other, not trying to bring each other down.

Post: #12

Out of the hundreds, maybe thousands of night approaches I've done only a handful (maybe 3-4) have been bad. And by bad I mean they have just been the chick(s) ignoring my opener.

I usually say something else and louder after that but if I'm still being cold shouldered I just tell them to have a goodnight and walk away.

I've met some gems online but for the most part I've been disappointed when actually meeting these women in real life. It's much better to go out in real life and at least know what the chick looks like and her mannerisms before you commit to talking to her

Post: #13

(05-30-2018 01:04 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  I've found that the sweet spot is usually two girls out together. You can also volley easier. Plus, you can just be like "I don't mean to butt into your conversation, but blah blah blah... you girls look like you could use a shot."

A solid list of tips but I was curious what you meant by the word volley. Are you simply saying you can play one girl against the other (like who is the leader and who is the follower type stuff)or switch over to talk to the other girl when the conversation has a lull?

Since you are talking about pickup in bars, I would add the following:

1. Tip the bartender well to reduce cockblocking.
2. Use the layout of the bar to your advantage. Choke points, shape of the bar itself, and so on.
3. Prioritize the bar in terms of areas and where your skills are best. For example, I have more success meeting girls that are standing or right at the bar, then those seated at tables and the other places. But someone else may do great meeting girls who are out for a smoke or on the dance floor.
4. Ignore the occassional guy who invades conversations and keep focus on the girls.
5. Ask questions to filter girls and check for compliance. If the yes signs aren't there, it is ok to abort the set and move on to the next. As you said, sometimes these same girls can be revisited later in the night as the girls are in a different state of mind.
6. A discussion on when and how to escalate seems appropriate too but maybe you are just keying here on the first part of the approach.

(05-30-2018 01:41 PM)RDF Wrote:  There's so many different types of approaches that it is difficult to come with even general guidelines.

As an example, when you say "don't go for kino right away", for me that's not always true. At a high energy nightclub, I usually "kino" within 10 seconds, and often kiss her within 30 seconds; meanwhile, if I'm talking to a girl at a coffee shop, I'll probably try to grab her number without touching her at all. It really depends on the situation.

You're right and yet, he is really talking about bar approaches. As you say, each venue will have a different vibe and thus require different calibration. The less sexual the environment, the less kino. Of course, if the girl is into you, you will be able to do more regardless.

Post: #14

Or you just say the first thing that comes to mind. Statistics have proven many times your first answer to a test question is usually the right one by a fairly large margin. Doesn't matter if the answer is negative, positive or neutral.

If there was applied thought behind anything that comes out of your mouth it's going to come across as forced or dis-indigenous to your average human.

If your dick hurts and some girl ask you if you're okay just say your dick hurts. If she says okay I didn't need to know that, say you asked me what's up.

If you are standing next to a girl and she says something retarded to you just ask her why she would say something like that.

This is not negging it's just being blunt. Girls really appreciate it in my experience. Actually I find most people appreciate it. They don't have to wonder much about where I stand.

Also this does not mean do this in a Autistic way. Inlay a good solid disarming tonality. Be open and humorous about your thoughts. Don't take yourself too seriously. But also never take anyone you're talking to seriously. Unless the person I'm talking to has a gun pointed at my chest they are nothing more than another animal trying to communicate with me using their vocal/verbal abilities.

Post: #15

(05-30-2018 04:41 PM)TIOT12 Wrote:  

(05-30-2018 01:04 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  I've found that the sweet spot is usually two girls out together. You can also volley easier. Plus, you can just be like "I don't mean to butt into your conversation, but blah blah blah... you girls look like you could use a shot."

A solid list of tips but I was curious what you meant by the word volley. Are you simply saying you can play one girl against the other (like who is the leader and who is the follower type stuff)or switch over to talk to the other girl when the conversation has a lull?

Since you are talking about pickup in bars, I would add the following:

1. Tip the bartender well to reduce cockblocking.
2. Use the layout of the bar to your advantage. Choke points, shape of the bar itself, and so on.
3. Prioritize the bar in terms of areas and where your skills are best. For example, I have more success meeting girls that are standing or right at the bar, then those seated at tables and the other places. But someone else may do great meeting girls who are out for a smoke or on the dance floor.
4. Ignore the occassional guy who invades conversations and keep focus on the girls.
5. Ask questions to filter girls and check for compliance. If the yes signs aren't there, it is ok to abort the set and move on to the next. As you said, sometimes these same girls can be revisited later in the night as the girls are in a different state of mind.
6. A discussion on when and how to escalate seems appropriate too but maybe you are just keying here on the first part of the approach.

(05-30-2018 01:41 PM)RDF Wrote:  There's so many different types of approaches that it is difficult to come with even general guidelines.

As an example, when you say "don't go for kino right away", for me that's not always true. At a high energy nightclub, I usually "kino" within 10 seconds, and often kiss her within 30 seconds; meanwhile, if I'm talking to a girl at a coffee shop, I'll probably try to grab her number without touching her at all. It really depends on the situation.

You're right and yet, he is really talking about bar approaches. As you say, each venue will have a different vibe and thus require different calibration. The less sexual the environment, the less kino. Of course, if the girl is into you, you will be able to do more regardless.

I've just found that it's easier to keep a conversation going when there are two women, and you can go back and forth.

I don't play them off each other, more like there is a big inside joke and we're all in on it.

When you're one on one and the conversation goes dead, it's hard to pick it back up. When you're with two girls, you simply start talking to the other girl about random shit and the other one will usually chime in.

"Did you know your friend is from Kansas City?"
"Yeah, we've lived together for 3 years!"
"Do you think she's ever met Andy Reid?" (coach of the Chiefs)
"Who?"
"He's the mayor of Kansas City, and is on the front of those hot sauce bottles. He also makes fried chicken but you can only get it out there. Weird city, right?"
[other girl] "Oh shut up, Hank! Andy Reid is the coach of the Chiefs!"
"Alright, maybe I'm wrong, but I bet he likes hot sauce. He should be on the front of one."
[conversation now reinitiated]

And yes, this thread only applies to restaurants / bars.

Post: #16

I don't do much night game. However, on the DGAF front as far as saying what you want or not caring what the girl thinks, I've had success lately with playful arrogant humor during the day time.

Examples:

Today I picked up a girl at the library. At first, I walked up and asked her where the reference section was. When she said she didn't know I said "but you're standing here in front of the dewey decimal computer. don't you work here? are you impersonating a librarian?"

Later she was telling me about all the books she's reading this summer. I replied "I don't need to read books, I pretty much know all there is to know. I just like to hold books sometimes to look smart." she laughed and said "must be nice" I said "yeah it's great" while smiling letting her know it was BS. I'll often follow up with "just kidding, I like to read" (or whatever the activity is)


The other day at the gym while picking up another girl: A few minutes into the conversation, she was talking about how often she comes to the gym. I said " my doctor told me I'm in perfect health and have the perfect male physique. I don't even need to exercise. I just like to come here to look at myself in the mirror."

This humor usually gets laughs which is always good in approaches.

Post: #17

Really solid OP by Hank.

I think we're sort of in a weird place culturally with cold approaching. People in general are more isolated and socially atomized than ever before. And women under 30 are glued to their phones constantly. When it comes to dating, they're comfortable with two things: 1) dating/hookup apps and, 2) men they meet through social circle that they can subsequently vet through social media. They're basically accustomed to dating as if they're ordering off a menu. By routing all their dating through hookup apps and social media vetting, they maintain almost total control of the process. Everything happens at their pace, according to their mood and on their schedule. They've essentially put themselves in a dating bubble. Men outside of that bubble might as well not even exist. They are completely off the radar. This is why nightlife has taken such a huge hit over the past decade: women don't really go out to meet men anymore. They just don't have to.

Anyway, in regards to cold approaching, this current state of affairs has both pros and cons. On the positive side, you've got a lot less competition these days who are comfortable with making cold approaches. It's also more novel than it used to be for a woman to be approached by a confident, charming guy. On the other hand, women are more suspicious about "randoms" these days and less open to meeting strangers (stranger danger!). They will also (at least subconsciously) assume you are kind of weird for having to hit on women in real life instead of just ordering your pussy through an app like all the cool guys do with zero effort.

So it's more important than ever to approach with the right vibe. And Hank's advice is spot on for getting that vibe across. I think the most important thing of all these days is to come across as completely non-needy. Total outcome independence. She has to feel deep down right away that you literally could not give less of a shit if you never saw her again. You're just doing you. Why are you talking to her? Because you're just a fun, social guy who talks to whoever the hell you want to, and she happened to be standing there. It needs to come across as completely natural and effortless. If you look like you are actually hitting on her (unless you're very good looking and have some killer direct game) she's likely to get spooked and run. Remember, women these days are accustomed to having total control over the dating process. She's used to dating being a slow paced affair conducted on her phone. It's like she's used to playing correspondence chess where she has all the time in the world to think about her options, but when you hit on her directly in her face with a cold approach you're suddenly forcing her to play speed chess. Being blatantly hit on makes them uncomfortable - it's a loss of control she isn't used to and is too fast-paced for her. So you've got to be more indirect. Make her wonder if you're actually hitting on her at all. You're just having fun, after all. Make your close and get her contact info almost as an afterthought. That's the vibe. You're just a cool, carefree guy living life and you happened to cross paths with her.

Few random related thoughts:

- What you say when you make the approach is practically meaningless. 99% of her reaction will be determined not by the line itself, but by your look, body language, tone, charisma, etc... If your conversation goes more than a few minutes, she will almost certainly forget how you initiated it to begin with. Just put yourself out there are say SOMETHING. Even if it's just, "Hey". Situational openers are your bread and butter but really, they don't matter. It's all about portraying the right vibe.

- The old Roosh Seinfeld advice is absolute gold. If you've got the right vibe going you can literally just ramble about nothing of substance and still build comfort with her. Keep the topics light and the conversation fast-moving. Don't get bogged down. Jump from one subject to another quickly, almost frenetically. This helps to keep her attention and not get bored (attention spans are shorter than ever these days). When in doubt, just ramble like you're Seinfeld or Larry David. This sounds completely ridiculous but works amazingly well. (example: you're at a bar. You're holding a drink with a bar napkin on the bottom. Start to ramble: "What's the deal with these bar napkins anyway? They're everywhere. Do you think they sell them by the ton? Is there some bar napkin kingpin behind all of the bar napkins in the world? I'm telling you, it's probably one guy who's behind every bar napkin in every bar in the world! I need to get into a racket like that. What do you think, what's the next great hustle like these bar napkins? Come on, we have to think of it before someone else does.") This is an objectively stupid and meaningless conversation, but she sort of gets washed along in the current because of your energy and the speed at which you're changing topics. It's just sort of a weird hack that inexplicably works way better than logic would dictate.

- I also find sets of two to be the sweet spot (at least for nightgame - daygame obviously you'll mostly find girls by themselves). Three is doable as well, since the other two can pair off while you focus on your target girl. Groups of four or more are usually a waste of time. Girls out in big groups are much more likely to be in relationships already, and even if they are single they aren't as likely to be receptive to your approach in front of all their friends. That being said, there are exceptions to this rule. If the gathering feels "loose", is larger than 8-10 and the women are broken into smaller sub-groups, you can sometimes worm your way in by opening one particularly receptive sub-group and gaining their social approval, which you can then leverage for introductions to the rest of the group. If you're particularly charming, one of the married/relationship girls will even specifically try to set you up with one of her single friends there.

- You cannot over-emphasize the importance of keeping the conversation light and completely meaningless. This builds comfort because it keeps her from feeling boxed in and makes her feel like she could walk away from the conversation at any time. But of course, every minute she talks to you she's building comfort. At the same time, keeping things light lets you retain some mystery about you and allows her to fill in the blanks herself. It also keeps you from bragging and coming across as a try-hard. And remember, these days more than ever, it needs to look effortless. Because in her mind she's subconsciously comparing you to every alpha male she follows on social media, who she assumes have to put in zero effort to get laid (projecting her experiences). In the ideal cold approach the girl learns nothing of substance about you (i.e. your job, your family, your ambitions, your serious hobbies). Instead, she simply has a fun, fast-paced interaction with a guy who she got a really good vibe from. She feels refreshed and interested in knowing more about you. She comes away almost confused, like, "Wait, what just happened? Who was that guy? He was really cool but I know nothing about him!" Which of course makes her want to see you again, if only to figure you out.

- Some guys swear by closing with an angle to have a built-in next date, (i.e. "I'm checking out this band playing next week, you should come along.") I think generally this is a pretty good tactic, especially as you gain comfort with approaching and trying to find the right vibe. But as you get more comfortable and experienced, I think it's a crutch you no longer need. You know you're at the right level when you're able to tease an end to the interaction and the girl says something like, "Well wait, you're going to take my number right?" That never happens all the time, but if you hear that a few times you will know that your approach game is on point and you're communicating the right vibe to these women.

Post: #18

Excellent advice will have to study it quite a bit since its a sticking point. What do you do when a girl insists on asking a question, one that you don't want to answer for whatever reason. How do you break the line of conversation?

And lets say your made up job in the conversation is an ice cream truck driver or something equally stupid. How do you keep up the charade that you are this fake job? They always seem to hammer you with more questions regarding this job.

Post: #19

Incoming long dissection of what I generally do.

Superb advice in this thread and I co-sign all of it; I would like to build a bit further on the details. The macros are covered excellently by Hank and Scorpion.

Overview

I view it as a supply and demand concept and you have less guys approaching in real life so when you make a memorable impression, it stands out much more. Girls know if they want to fuck you within 30 seconds so make your presence noteworthy and run ‘don’t fuck it up’ game from there. Ramp their interest up and channel that into the end product, while being ‘unconvinced’ by them.

For what it’s worth, I have great success with cold approaches and ONS is usually the result (depending on venue, logistics and time). I am averse to numbers (time wasting) unless the girl is memorable.

Girls remain open to cold approaches but time is also wisely spent building social circles. Thus, I won't fuck every girl I approach, I will keep them around for any future meet ups and to go out with me.

If you go out with women, cold approaches are supremely easy as it mitigates the 'why is this guy approaching me' that women have.

As for approaching in person, girls don’t have time to calculate their responses as well, discuss with their girlfriends and generally frame their responses so tight game sets you apart.

This is a crucial point to be made; let’s not overestimate how many guys have game. They might be confident to approach, sure, but their game is weak and they’re not making an impression.

Disclaimers: My looks help me but my game sets me apart. A lot of my trust, comfort and sexual escalation, I learned myself by taking MDMA many, many times. I am a smoker and lot of the girls I pick up in the smoking area are pre-isolated. I am 5'9 too, for any guys feeling insecure about their height (it doesn't matter!).

I met a 9 and her boyfriend last week, through a social circle. She was checking me out when I was sitting at another table before we merged tables. I told her, when her boyfriend went to the bathroom, “I noticed you checking me out earlier”.
She responds, “You have a mysterious look to you. You look like you don’t fit in you do, seamlessly.” I respond with a "no shit". She topped this off with a “I dunno, it's your presence. You don’t look like a fuckboy and that’s kinda hot”. I pretended like I understood and nodded.

This is ideally what you want to aim for. Presence. Ask women, post-coitus, in bed, what it was about you at the start. Get feedback.

A presence that does the talking beforehand, to want them to want you to approach and it mitigates weakness in your approach. It gives you more ‘lives’ to fuck up (and learn).

Such a presence is the long-term result of exercise and being healthy, looking like you can fuck. Game is communicating that you can fuck well (physically and mentally). It’s the pareto principle, 20% of your effort will be 80% of your results, hence what you say doesn’t matter too much. It just has to fit your projected image.


On to the actual approaches and mindset:

Mindset #1 – It’s my birthday party and I haven’t met all of my guests yet.

Mindset #2 – Women just want to be taken.

Mindset #3– I will take her on an unpredictable emotional rollercoaster while I enjoy myself.


Key points as covered above:

- Before ANYTHING, please fucking smile. Smile, smile, smile. Bonus points if you communicate a bad boy vibe, have a sexy smirk, and smile via eyes.

- You’re in a good mood -> sets the frame for a fun aura

- Outcome independence -> result of abundance life and mentality

- Able to talk shit, have fun and be sexual

- Able to apply compliance tests (feedback for you + psychological effect of them doing this is positive)

- Speak womanese and generally about them; people’s favourite topic is themselves -> I do this with cold reading (outrageous statements generally) to get them riled up and wanting to correct me.

- Transition womanese and talking about her into talking about 'us' -> seed planting and adventure projection

- Break rapport early on and bring her back in (vocal tonality or challenging) -> push/pull

- With some girls, it’s beneficial to exit early (on a high note) and return later on

- The first 5-10 minutes are all about plausible deniability. You both know the drill but mystery remains. I wrote about this recently with indirect verbals, direct non-verbals

- I will ignore the obvious shit – she is in to fitness? I am not talking fitness like every other guy. She is a lawyer? Boooooring.

You will find that certain environments, such as smoking areas facilitate some points above (time constraints, isolated girls, easy openers (have you got a lighter?) etc.)

Find which environments provide the best ratio of effort to fun.


What works for me (point 1 usually combined with either 2 or 3):

1. Be unattached

2. Be inquisitive and curious (early or later on)

3. Be silly and self-entertaining (early or later on)

Situational openers are my MO but as scorpion emphasizes, it doesn’t matter what you say BUT the opener needs to set you up to showcase your non-verbals.

You learn to think 2-3 moments ahead of time and to steer the conversation but set it up to make it seem natural.

I have my own ‘openers’ to start the night and work the crowd, discarding them as the night goes along.

By now you should know what girls like to talk about so you can hone in on that and chirp them about it.

Break rapport and do so on high points.

Sometimes, it will be necessary such as if they bring out their phone. I take mine out and take a picture of them, this always breaks them out of their little zone as they are usually narcissistic enough to want to see the pic. Bonus if you take a shitty pic as they will want you to take another one. Then you set up compliance tests and tease.

Otherwise, I will get my phone and ‘answer’ it while proceeding to have a conversation about her, saying silly shit.

“Yes, she is on her phone. No she hasn’t noticed yet. What? No way. Does she know? Oh ok.”

It’s entertaining however it’s reserved for certain girls; it’s their privilege to be around you so if they’re on their phone, decide if it’s worth sticking around. The decent girls will apologize and say “I just need to respond to this, sorry” or something like that.

A bit later, I throw out trust building when I isolate or take them to smoke/bar.

“Between you and I…”

“Can you keep a secret?”

“Would you believe me if I told you…”

Sometimes it’s direct (I have been imagining you naked for the past minute) or just inside joke (I am actually a spy here on x y z and looking for a partner in crime) etc.

Even here, if I haven’t fucked around with them, I will motion them to lean it and give them a playful smack on the side of the head while I laugh. Of course, don’t over do it and pull them in immediately and give them a kiss on the head. It's the old player adage of 'treat them like a younger sister'.

I include these in the approach thread because this will happen in the first 5 minutes. I am a fucking tornado coming in, having fun and sucking them into this stupid, crazy, sexy mindfuck of escalation. Never over the top and my vocal tonality is breaking/neutral rapport (not trying for rapport).

Never have a pitch in your voice, like an insurance salesman.

I am notorious for silly shit. I will touch her chest and say, “you spilled something” and as she looks down I will drag my finger up to her nose and hold it there.

Stupid, playful shit yet always sexual.

Playful: finger drag
Sexual: holding it there or over her lips and looking into her eyes (gotcha!)

Girls want adventure. Figure out how you communicate this. Decide from the start, how will you project this as you approach them.

You don’t have to wear Steve Irwin khakis and speak in an accent to communicate adventure.

Figure out your strengths. What works for you and when can you bust it out?


My approaches are standardized:

- you look like a '-something outlandish-'
- "omg how did you guess" or "no, I am actually a x/y/z"
- "Ah man, that's the worst" blabla
- Followed by them realizing I am not from here, that I have an accent
- "Where are you from?" -> guess
- I have a unique name
- They try to pronounce it and cannot
- I pronounce it in a foreign language
- Oh wow, you speak a foreign language -> speak to me in it
- -Noir speaks foreign language-
- 100% success rate of “wow that’s fucking hot”


This is in the first 2 minutes and opens the conversation for:

- Escalation, saying shit like "wait till I start talking to you dirty"

- Playfulness, "slow down, you gotta buy me a drink first"

- Comfort building, teaching each other another language

- Discussion about travel and what languages are sexy and which are disgusting (looking at you, German)

- Fantasy projection, "we are planning a trip next week, lets go on a skiing trip to the alps, island hopping in Polynesia; no phones" -> you should know via cold reads or her telling you, what she is into so build on it.

- Sexual bubble, it’s a fantasy and a secret, we are eloping as we have that connection. Us vs them.

The list goes on and on.

So, what sets you apart?

Are you able to combine that with your game and make it seem natural?

I generally go solo but with a wing, we always ‘audition’ the girls.

In front of them, “she’s kinda weird/hot/silly, isn’t she?” and point at her. "Nah she's alright, we can still be friends" and pull her in.

It’s a team game with your wing and you’re tag teaming duos of women.

Sometimes you realize, half this shit is just acting.

As for negs, I don’t usually say any but I will give them weird looks or check them out from head to toe when they say something stupid.

The only ‘neg’ I keep around is “those shoes look mighty comfy” (stolen from someone on RVF).

The esteemed posters of RVF have collectively written a blueprint in this thread but it’s your responsibility to personalize it and add character to it.

That’s all that it is. Legitimacy, congruence and being sexy, playful and challenging.


To summarize:

- Look good (both for her and your confidence)
- Smile
- Be playful in your approach (or inquisitive) – cold reads
- Be inquisitive in your follow up (or playful) - build comfort and relate but also push away/challenge, depending on vibe
- Work the crowd, get them laughing or engrossed in a story/ramble/anything
- Pick your girl
- Sexualize body language
- Create a inside joke/fantasy role play
- Break rapport
- Pull back in, physically
- Isolate and joke her friends that you are taking her

You can eject at any high point and come back or just hijack her night, depending on the time, logistics and environment.

When you approach, she has an idea of what you are about and whether she wants to fuck you. You got to at least meet that projection and ideally, smash it out of the park.

With certain girls, you don't even need to game. They are already into you or want to fuck you from the start so just run 'don't fuck it up game'.

I joke with my mates that the best opener is actually “pssssst!” and a quick motion over while frantically nodding your head. And yes, this has worked in certain circumstances.

Work on your vibe and control of interaction and the opener is irrelevant.

Post: #20

May I ask how old are you ?

Post: #21

Great stuff, Hank.

The only caveat I'd throw in is if the girl seems truly interested in what you do for a living - don't be afraid to talk about it, it's an IOI. Keep it brief and non-arrogant. If she's really into whatever you do, demonstrate your value by talking about your career if you like what you do, but if she was only slightly curious than go back to asking questions about her.

Post: #22

(05-30-2018 05:15 PM)robreke Wrote:  I don't do much night game. However, on the DGAF front as far as saying what you want or not caring what the girl thinks, I've had success lately with playful arrogant humor during the day time.

Examples:

Today I picked up a girl at the library. At first, I walked up and asked her where the reference section was. When she said she didn't know I said "but you're standing here in front of the dewey decimal computer. don't you work here? are you impersonating a librarian?"

Later she was telling me about all the books she's reading this summer. I replied "I don't need to read books, I pretty much know all there is to know. I just like to hold books sometimes to look smart." she laughed and said "must be nice" I said "yeah it's great" while smiling letting her know it was BS. I'll often follow up with "just kidding, I like to read" (or whatever the activity is)


The other day at the gym while picking up another girl: A few minutes into the conversation, she was talking about how often she comes to the gym. I said " my doctor told me I'm in perfect health and have the perfect male physique. I don't even need to exercise. I just like to come here to look at myself in the mirror."

This humor usually gets laughs which is always good in approaches.

Or "I used to jog, but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass"

Post: #23

I used to play water polo, but my horses kept drowning underneath me.