Post: #1

In short, I got into a fight with a dude, after he got his nose bent out of shape when i hit on his beautiful female friend.

Ive only been doing cold approach (mainly daygame, with some nightgame) for a few months and this is the first time Ive experienced this. I want to know how people would have handled it and why it bothered this guy so much.

The approach

I approached a beautiful girl who was sitting at a bar (she was sitting at an outdoor 4 seater table). On her side of the table was just herself, and across from her was her female friend and her boyfirend (the wanker in question).

I wasnt at the bar, i was merely walking past and spotted her and then opened something along the lines of "hello, i know this is random, but wanted to say hi, i think you're cute bla bla. Is there a special someone coming back to this empty seat or is it just the three of you?" She smiled, I offered my name and she hers. Then she pointed to inside the bar and said that her boyfriend was in the bathroom. All in it was a good approach and it made both girls smiled.

The fight

It was at this point, I was about to bow out gracefully and say goodbye when the guy across from me, giving me this have smiling, half incredulous look starting saying "really mate, really, are you kidding me, are you being serious??" and he just kept harping on as if i had done something complete unorthodox and out of line.

My response was "what are you on about fella?", to which he kept replying "are you being serious?" and then i said "oh, im so sorry, i was a completely out of line, shame on me for seeing a beautiful girl and taking some courage to approach her to see if she was single or or not, you're right. Its so out of line, i should just go home and jump on tinder like real men.

A few more words were exchanged. I kept my cool and my sarcastic tone, he kept losing his shit. He then got up and tried to phyically make me keep walking (he grabbed of my shoulders and started pushing me away). At this point i took him down and it was on for young and old.

My questions

1. Short of walking away, how would you respond to people like this guy (assuming they question you in a non threating way)
2. Why do people like him get their noses so bent out of shape when you hit on their female friends (albeit tactfully and respectfully)
   

...

I dont use online dating. I dont go to clubs or loud bars. I only approach during the day and on rare occassions at night, in non noisy bars.

I noticed that its very frowned up when you speak to multple women, for example, in the same venue (ie. a restaurant), what are people's problems? Why does it bother them so much?

It would be nice to hear what people think about this, or if they encounter this sort of stuff from time to to time, and the mindset they have to overcome this.

The fight i got into really bothered me (havent fought in 15 years) because of how it started. It got me thinking about the picture, ie. society's perception on guys like me and why we cant be our true selves when we see beautiful women / our to conform etc.

Keen to hear people's 2c

Post: #2

I mean, if you're approaching multiple girls in the same room in rapid succession it just looks odd. You look like you're out for something or thirsty.

That guy, though, got up in his feelings about it out of insecurity I suspect. I think you handled it reasonably well up until he put his hands on you. He should have not touched you. I do think you probably shouldn't have "taken him down?" Are you talking about A jiujitsu takedown or what? Either way, that sorta fighting is usually not a good idea if you want to be welcome in this venue.

Post: #3

I don't know about the specifics of this situation, but I do know it's very characteristic of Anglo bogans/chavs to get into fights for almost no reason.

Post: #4

(04-25-2018 08:38 PM)Fortis Wrote:  I do think you probably shouldn't have "taken him down?" Are you talking about A jiujitsu takedown or what?

FYI. He grabbed me with a lot of force and tried to move me along, i resisted, he went in again, at this point i grabbed him around the neck and throw him to the ground. Bouncers came straight away. No punches were thrown. It lasted about 12 seconds. When it was broken up, one bouncer came along and said he saw the whole thing and explained to the other bouncers that it was the guys fault. Anyway, whatever. It was just a shit thing. No harm was done, it just got me thinking about society's perception and if i wouldve approached the girl any differently if i had my time again. And no i wouldnt have.

Post: #5

(04-25-2018 08:30 PM)joe8489 Wrote:  Short of walking away, how would you respond to people like this guy (assuming they question you in a non threating way)

Tell them to "go home".

Post: #6

Sounds to me like you didn't asses the situation.

You disrespected the guy by encroaching on his territory, totally not even acknowledging him which made him lose face, all while being arrogant about it. Perfectly normal reaction from an evolutionary perspective. AND you hung around plus escalated. The way to handle it would have been to shrug it off with "worth a shot, c ya" and gotten the fuck out of there. That would have let him be a hero in front of his hoes, kept it light hearted and would have elevated you as the dood who had balls to try, in case any other women were observing or you bumped into her later on...

Maybe in the future ask if BOTH of the ladies are his girlfriends and take him off guard while finding out what the situation is... bit more indirect with the approach.

You need to be careful and street-smarten up, the guy could have been someone who wouldn't think twice about knifing you in the car park later on. You don't know. That's the reality.

Post: #7

(04-25-2018 11:01 PM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  Sounds to me like you didn't asses the situation.

Post: #8

Speaking of donkeys and asses: This is how it plays out if you imagine baboons in a David Attenborough documentary:

"Three baboons... One male with two females."

"A new male sneaks in and attempts to take away one of the females..."

WHAT DO YOU THINK is going to happen next? lol

A baboon fight, that's what!

Humans are no different. You need to draw the female baboon away from the pack so the Alpha male doesn't get the teeth out. You're the baboon that tried to poach a female, got into a fight with the Alpha and lost and now you're tending to your wounds (ego wounds mainly).

Post: #9

Yeah i kinda dont blame the other guy for getting testy with you. But props for having the balls to approach in that scenario.

Post: #10

Interesting points Jack.

But i dont think i disrespected him by inquiring about the girl. How do you figure this? I acknowledged the group when i went over, and it was clear he was with his girlfriend on the other side of the table (she was on his lap). And there was a strong chance she was the 'third wheel' and was single. Turns out she wasnt, but the exchange was pleasant enough and that well recieved by both females.

The guy arked up straight away and my response was instant. Yes in hindsight i should have walked away, knowing that it resulted in a fight.

She was a beautiful girl, i couldnt not give it a go. If i didnt, i wouldnt have seen her again bla bla. I was on my way home and was about to drop a friend off and so i wasnt exactly going to go into the bar, loiter around and wait til she came out of the toilet to approach. I dont have that sort of time and its not my style. You're clearly more advanced at this than i am Jack, so tell me, how would you have approached it? Forget the part about the fight. I am just talking about how you would have 'opened the set'.

The undertone in some of the responses seems is a little surprising. Jack, yours in particular implies I was being heroic and arrogant. How is his behaviour justified mate? Have something similar happened to you that you're empathizing with him?

Does a situation, in a set like that, preclude me from approaching at all?

Post: #11

(04-25-2018 11:23 PM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  You're the baboon that tried to poach a female

i see what you did there

(04-25-2018 11:23 PM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  you lost.

I lost nothing.

I approached. Fine, she wasnt single. Nothing lost.

He got up, he got physical and i stood up for myself. He looked the fool for starting it and got him and his friends all kicked out. Not sure where i lost there fella. I was just responding to what was in front of me.

(04-25-2018 11:23 PM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  and now you're tending to your wounds (ego wounds mainly).

My ego isnt wounded in the slightest. Why would it be?

Re read my post mate.

I was just looking for some support and insight, there's no need for the passive aggressiveness. I understand your tone/angle Jack.

Post: #12

Joe8489, its normal behaviour. Basic psychology of the male in any species. Alpha males WILL defend their territory.

The fact that you say it was a pleasant interaction yet it ended like this worries me that you can't read or understand the (basic) workings of social situations. Re-read my post without taking it personal. I was blunt, but direct with the info nonetheless.

I'm not attacking your ego either, don't take it that way.

Post: #13

(04-26-2018 12:06 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  Joe8489, its normal behaviour. Basic psychology of the male in any species. Alpha males WILL defend their territory.

The fact that you say it was a pleasant interaction yet it ended like this worries me that you can't read or understand the (basic) workings of social situations. Re-read my post without taking it personal. I was blunt, but direct with the info nonetheless.

I'm not attacking your ego either, don't take it that way.

Ok, thanks for clarifying Jack. All good.

I say pleasant, as in, both girls were smiling and were clearly receptive. And the girl in question was great about it. I ackowledged the guy briefly, but short of that I dont see i owed him anything else. I was simply executing on my approach, i noticed both girls were pleased / entertained, I did see his face and it looked like a face of a guy who was annoyed and confused as to what was happening. IMO, its wasnt my job to ask his permission or walk him through the process of what was happening. Fuck him. Let him figure it out foir myself. I didnt show any arrogance until he started firing up.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback nonetheless.

Post: #14

The easiest way to avoid this would be to give the guy some face and de-escalate.

Just be chill and say something along the lines of 'ah sorry man, I didn't know she was taken, she's cute, you're a lucky guy', tell them to have a good one and leave, simple.

Even if you're technically correct in what you were saying to the guy that sarcastic tone isn't going to accomplish anything besides increasing the chances of pissing the boyfriend off, as ended up occurring. Even if you got annoyed by the guy being so insecure/aggressive, it's better to not take any chances and ensure you de-escalate accordingly, else you have the chance of white-knight behavior ensuing like the dude complaining about 'creepy behavior' or some other shit like that to the bouncers.

Next time just suck it up, say something that sounds vaguely conciliatory and move on.

Post: #15

Only thing that pisses me off worse than fat American women with their bad attitudes is white knights.

I hope you beat that guys fucking ass like a slave.

Post: #16

What you usually want to do is that you befriend these guys before hitting on their female friends. Give them a compliment and build rapport a bit by being polite and maybe ask a few questions (that way you can gain knowledge about the group and if the girls are single or what not).

That often makes guys put their guard down when you act like you just had the intention of being social and friendly on a night out and not steal "their" girls.

Post: #17

(04-25-2018 11:09 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-25-2018 11:01 PM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  Sounds to me like you didn't asses the situation.

So that's where the fallow fields come from.

Post: #18

Are you picking up guys? Why do you care?

Post: #19

Once the girl had rejected you why did you feel the need to engage with the guy at all? At that point what was there to be gained? Like JackinMelbourne said, you should have shrugged, said something similar to "worth a shot, see ya", and walked away.

Once you refused to move on, and started arguing with the guy it was only going to have a negative outcome. There were no positive results likely here:

- A shouting match that makes you look like a dickhead to everyone else in the bar, ruining your chances with every other girl in there
- The bouncers throwing you out of the bar
- The guy physically escalating things and being a good fighter. Or his mate coming back and being similar - either/both of these leading to you getting a beating

Without wanting to be insulting, I agree with JackinMelbourne that you might need to work on your social calibration. If you could neither see why the guy might be a bit flippant with you in this scenario, nor see why you had nothing to gain by engaging with him, its not good.

Post: #20

Classic old MM says to bring girls for the guys before you hit on their girls. Or at least befriend them. In any case, the guys above are right. It's your job as the guy who approaches to make sure you have all angles covered. You can't blame the guy who reacts even if he acts childish/stupid/douche-y.

Post: #21

OP, do you have any good mates, ones that you would do anything for?

This guy was merely protecting his mate’s honour (the guy in the bathroom) and doing what he’d hope his mate would do (fending off approachers) if something similar happened in his own absence.

Had nothing to do with the guy being Alpha and protecting his “women”. Obviously he’s not sexually involved with his friend’s girl.

Post: #22

(04-25-2018 11:01 PM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  Sounds to me like you didn't asses the situation.

You disrespected the guy by encroaching on his territory, totally not even acknowledging him which made him lose face, all while being arrogant about it. Perfectly normal reaction from an evolutionary perspective. AND you hung around plus escalated. The way to handle it would have been to shrug it off with "worth a shot, c ya" and gotten the fuck out of there. That would have let him be a hero in front of his hoes, kept it light hearted and would have elevated you as the dood who had balls to try, in case any other women were observing or you bumped into her later on...

Maybe in the future ask if BOTH of the ladies are his girlfriends and take him off guard while finding out what the situation is... bit more indirect with the approach.

You need to be careful and street-smarten up, the guy could have been someone who wouldn't think twice about knifing you in the car park later on. You don't know. That's the reality.

Absolutely right, in a pick-up with other people at the table you simply have to include them and attempt to befriend them. Once she said she had a bf, make some joke about would have sat down and gotten to know them better, but there's no room so you're heading off.

Why give static back to some jackhole?

Post: #23

(04-26-2018 04:43 AM)thebassist Wrote:  The easiest way to avoid this would be to give the guy some face and de-escalate.

Just be chill and say something along the lines of 'ah sorry man, I didn't know she was taken, she's cute, you're a lucky guy', tell them to have a good one and leave, simple.

Even if you're technically correct in what you were saying to the guy that sarcastic tone isn't going to accomplish anything besides increasing the chances of pissing the boyfriend off, as ended up occurring. Even if you got annoyed by the guy being so insecure/aggressive, it's better to not take any chances and ensure you de-escalate accordingly, else you have the chance of white-knight behavior ensuing like the dude complaining about 'creepy behavior' or some other shit like that to the bouncers.

Next time just suck it up, say something that sounds vaguely conciliatory and move on.

This is great advice, thanks man. I probably should have acknowledged him more, and not been so sarcastic (just an alpha instinct).

fwiw, the boyfriend wasnt even present when all this happened, it was the other girl's bf that went all WK and lost his shit

Post: #24

(04-26-2018 01:16 PM)zatara Wrote:  Once the girl had rejected you why did you feel the need to engage with the guy at all? At that point what was there to be gained? Like JackinMelbourne said, you should have shrugged, said something similar to "worth a shot, see ya", and walked away.

Once you refused to move on, and started arguing with the guy it was only going to have a negative outcome. There were no positive results likely here:

- A shouting match that makes you look like a dickhead to everyone else in the bar, ruining your chances with every other girl in there
- The bouncers throwing you out of the bar
- The guy physically escalating things and being a good fighter. Or his mate coming back and being similar - either/both of these leading to you getting a beating

Without wanting to be insulting, I agree with JackinMelbourne that you might need to work on your social calibration. If you could neither see why the guy might be a bit flippant with you in this scenario, nor see why you had nothing to gain by engaging with him, its not good.

Having given it some thought, you guys are right. I should have shrugged it off and walked away.

Post: #25

(04-27-2018 11:39 PM)joe8489 Wrote:  This is great advice, thanks man. I probably should have acknowledged him more, and not been so sarcastic (just an alpha instinct).

"I probably should have acknowledged him more, and not been so sarcastic"

Probably? This is obvious to anyone who is not socially awkward. Alphas are not socially awkward. It's a gamma tendency to stick around and make a passive aggressive sarcastic comment here just because you think you're right and he's wrong. Why were you still there anyway?

Alphas and betas are socially aware and know what they do in that situation might cause a fight, so they're more likely to just make an aggressive comment/action rather than a passive aggressive one if they want to fight or walk away or just avoid the situation entirely.

Then you disagreed with melbournejack's advice and argued with him. In addition your pickup line makes you sound like a supplicating nice guy. All of this makes you sound more gamma than alpha.