RE: Kiev datasheet 2018
The Ukrainians I came across in Poland fell into two groups: instagram whores who were looking for sponsors, generally English speaking and in the tourist areas of the city; and, regular workers, who did not speak English but enough polish to work in a shop.
The instagram whores were just impossible to get out, and in any exchanges it quickly became apparent that they changed their pictures a LOT on WhatsApp/Viber etc. and that they were looking for (another) rich western sponsor. I definitely don't think these girls' vaginas have any cobwebs, but it's like the moment they knew I was going the "game" route they didn't want to know.
The regular workers tended to work long hours, and were still attractive enough to bang. Some girls working in a shop could actually have been instagram whore level if they chose to be "sexy" rather than humble, so putting on a lot of makeup, wearing very sexy clothes, huge high heels etc. (part of the image of the "instagram model") plus being able to speak English would have actually freed them from their shitty jobs (some of the girls really do work hard, have to send money home and are relatively isolated due to not being polish).
This is why I, too, am curious about what OP says is a legit "8", a rating I very rarely give a girl. Is the "8" a reflection of her natural beauty, or is it more a mixture of her natural beauty plus her makeup, dress, entire "image" of the "8" or "9" that guys typically talk about.
Like Roosh has said in the past, and something I have finally come to accept over the years, if you're looking for LTRs and maybe marriage and children, then a sweet, humble Ukrainian 6.5-7 who is not an instagram whore (on my "scale") is a far better bet than the "8" who only views men as walking ATMs, posts sexy pictures on instagram regularly, and travels all over the world thanks to various sponsors. Sure, the girl who "paints Easter eggs" may be boring but apart from good sex who cares about having intellectually stimulating conversation with a female. The instagram whores, being soft prostitutes, are more likely to be starfish in bed or if "freaky" fake porn star mode. With a relatively unspoilt girl, you can train her so that she becomes a genuine freak and the sex is genuine and gets better over time as she becomes more comfortable.
So, if in Kiev there are pretty girls ("7s") everywhere who are just not "sexy AF"/don't speak English/aren't addicted to instagram, and therefore not guys' typical description of an 8-9, then I will settle for the 7s all day. How is a moneygrabbing soft prostitute going to be good for any sort of LTR, apart from maybe the perverse enjoyment of banging a girl who looks like a porn star and is effectively paid like a porn star to do all that shit anyway? You know, the really horny, early 20s porn stars who for some reason need lube. No young woman I've ever banged has needed lube, they were all dripping and ready to go.
And that's what the OP is saying, that you can't get model looking women in a poor country where money is a big problem in the instagram era to not maximize her looks using clothes and makeup, and maximize her money and lifestyle by promoting her looks via social media in order to get her out of poverty? We all know instagram/social media is a global problem that even more than feminism has ruined a lot of places, but in Ukraine it is exaggerated by the mixture of abundance of these hot sluts and the economic situation. This is not much of a surprise.
What QAZ is saying however is also I feel correct. Even in Poland I felt disconnected. Apart from the westernized hipsters, the dating process had nuances that I had difficulty adjusting to. I can't help but feel that it will be a lot different even with Ukrainian girls who are not instagram whores. The Ukrainian workers in Poland could be charmingly feminine yet bizarrely emotional, and I always felt on edge, even if I was brought a small gift or she was in the kitchen "as a woman should be", I could never quite trust what the next moment would bring, or indeed what her "end-game" was. I didn't understand her culture or her mind enough to trust her at all. When she stayed over, we would bang until late and when she slept, I would watch films or write all night. I couldn't do the traditional "kiss and go to sleep together, wake up in the morning together".
I agree with what Rocha is saying about the money being so important because it is the "scarce thing" in Ukraine, but regardless of their current situation and cultural differences etc., they still have working bodies and a hindbrain, so while I know it is difficult to game them purely, do they all just have cold transactional nature to the point where they don't even enjoy sex? Let's say a guy has originally started banging some instagram whores on the basis of his money, passport and lifestyle, but then he starts to bang them like it was his last day on planet earth (dominance, passion etc.): would any of these girls genuinely respond or are they so transactional they feel even allowing him to take further liberties in trying to bang her like that means that she sees herself to be entitled to more money. I mean, it's one of the first thing we learn about women in this whole "red pill" sphere: that women enjoy sex and not only that, if it is extremely good sex, they can get addicted to it and the particular man giving that good sex. Everyone knows about virgins: they can make you wait a lot longer, but once you have sex with them, even mediocre sex to be honest, she will suddenly want to know everything about you, follow you around everywhere etc. Are these Ukrainian instagram whores so burnt out that they just starfish EVERYTHING? That would put them on the level of some of the most hardened hookers on the planet, who naturally see sex as a job, a task, a good that they give away and that the man in turn takes and must compensate her for, because she is essentially forced by cirumstances to take so many dicks that her hindbrain cannot respond to any man with anything other than, at best, placid indifference, or at worst, disgust.
There are as always exceptions to the worldwide traveller, English speaking, completely transactional instagram whore. The genuine relationships I saw between "hot" girls that were instagram whores and whom guys would likely label "8" or "9" were couples who met in high-school, and where the guy (dating way up) provides for her and her only, essentially working his ass off to keep her. I got the impression that the guy's "fashion budget" was almost 95% spent on his woman. Even though this is more traditional "provider game", by my US standards, it errs on the side of soft prostitution at times. These busted dudes would literally work any shitty construction job, while the woman's job is to cook and to look good, then a few times a month the guy can afford to show his hot piece off at some expensive restaurant. Some of the women who look like carousel riders, instagram whores are actually still fucking their highschool sweetheart due to the first dick effect and him having a constant presence in the country and providing fully for her, and that's enough, better than the task of learning English or learning any skill for that matter, even the skill of attracting sponsors vs the more stable monogamous life. So this is the other option for hot girls who want to look hot and may have social media but are more closed and tribal in their thinking, so they are not as motivated to travel to different countries and see themselves as too hot to bother learning English or accepting other cultures.
But like I said, everything needs a context and until OP posts what he sees as his typical "8+" it's difficult to know exactly what the situation is. It's obvious that smartphones and the social media thereon can render women incapable of love by frying dopamine pathways, just as in other ways sex with too many men can render women incapable of love with the resulting 1000 cock stare and antidepressant prescription/substance addiction, but I'm curious about quality women who are neither smartphone addicts nor carousel veterans. It seems that even FSU for all its money problems is going the way of every girl, even 4s, 5s and 6s, owning a smartphone and the place eventually becoming a total wasteland as far as finding a quality girl whose character and behaviors you could trust enough for marriage. The other option of going to Kiev to scoop instagram whores with "sponsorship" game is way too close to P4P for me. As per QAZ' post, I would be curious to know the "other" i.e. non-transactional option, including the struggles.
Just a side note, -- it's crazy to notice Armenians, christian, Indo-Europeans, as being seen to be equivalent to muslim, non-Indo-European nationalities such as Azeris, or other muslim autonomous regions of Russia, simply by virtue of their country being situated in or around the same mountain range. Turks and again originally Turkic, non-Indo-European Azeris and Armenians fucking hate each other, understatement. And ironic that "Caucasian" as we define to be "white" is looked down upon in Ukraine, as this is the area where the earliest "original" Indo-European language that all Europe bar Hungary, Finland and Estonia speaks. If you go back far enough, Ukrainians derive from christian people of the Caucus region, not any other way around. Someone should tell Ukrainians that darker, slightly tan people such as Armenians or Greeks have ancient languages closer to the original "European" that Ukrainian has. Turkic people have language and descent closer to Kazakhs and Mongolians than to the much closer Armenians or Greeks or even Italians. I wonder if this opinion is shared among educated Ukrainians, because it seems like something a Dinamo Kiev ultra skinhead would think, not your average university student. I can understand that due to the Turkish and Arab invasion disdain of Turks and Arabs might have developed over the years (I now hear they have invaded Belarus, which was quicker than I expected), but aren't the (Armenian) Kardashians not worshipped as the original social media attention whores and the queens of marketing their bodies for money? Aren't Greece and Italy admired for their ancient civilizations and their formation of what was once great western civilization? I also agree with Rocha that enough Europeans, whether Armenians, Georgians, or Bulgarians remain in Ukraine, yet they still cannot tell the difference? Well bang goes the typical advice of "look different from the natives". I understand not black or Turkish but I would have thought the Italian/Portuguese/Greek/Armenian look would be optimal.
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The following 1 user Likes Belarus1212's post:
Minsk might even have more Turks. Belarussian people are not racist by nature, at least the girls loved darker guys, like polish or Lithuanian , probably due to the fact that there are almost no Caucasian people there. However, arabs and Turks quickly found that out and they are completely bringing down the place at an incredible pace. It's sad really.
