Post: #1

Has anyone here ever used a job offer to negotiate a raise at one's current job? How does one go about doing that in the USA?

I really like my current job. I have great clients and incredible resources at my disposal. Unfortunately, I live in the DC area and I work for a government contractor that is less than stellar. I know that I am underpaid by almost 30% given my skill set. I would very much like to stay where I am but I would like to get paid what I'm worth.

I thought about looking for other work and then using any offers to negotiate a raise. I have obviously heard of people doing that but I don't know how exactly they did it.

How would having clients assigning me work while being employed by a contractor effect things? Who should I start negotiating with, my client or my employer?

I also realize that I may not be able to grab the full 30%. Is there a more realistic number?

I assume that this is a risky strategy, including the possibility that I may get called on my bluff and have to take the other job.

Post: #2

First get that offer, which has of now you don't have.
Then, speak to your superior in a calm and personable way explaining that you have an offer with better conditions in other company, though you really like the work, the company and the people you work with, but at this point in your life money is an important issue for you.

There can be three outcomes. Or he bites the bait and offers you a raise, or he does not bite, and all keeps in the same, meaning also that you are disposable to him, and he might dump you at anytime. Or you accept the better offer and move on with your life.

Post: #3

Quote:I know that I am underpaid by almost 30% given my skill set.

How do you know this?

Never hurts to explore the market, even if you're happy with your current job. Helps you keep the interviewing knives sharp and lets you know what your market value is.

Post: #4

(02-19-2018 02:47 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:I know that I am underpaid by almost 30% given my skill set.

How do you know this?
...

3 things:
1) I get about 3 emails a day from headhunters. Most of these are keyword searches by outsourced Indians that are not jobs that I am qualified to do, but I get about one or two a week that actually fit. When I got back to one of them, when he asked me what salary I wanted what I gave was so low he insisted on raising it to a point that was almost 30% higher than my current salary.

2) One of my fellow employees got screwed by my contractor on salary. He eventually got another job because he desperately needed more money. When his client found out that he was leaving and asked his salary, the client called my contractor and screamed at them for ripping them off and demanded his salary be raised.

3) There is a self-employed contactor with decades of experience who works at my office and we hang out. When he found out my salary he was quite certain that I was being underpaid.

All that being said, I don't think that I would be as aggressive to capture the full 30%.

Post: #5

(02-19-2018 06:38 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 02:47 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:I know that I am underpaid by almost 30% given my skill set.

How do you know this?
...

3 things:
1) I get about 3 emails a day from headhunters. Most of these are keyword searches by outsourced Indians that are not jobs that I am qualified to do, but I get about one or two a week that actually fit. When I got back to one of them, when he asked me what salary I wanted what I gave was so low he insisted on raising it to a point that was almost 30% higher than my current salary.

2) One of my fellow employees got screwed by my contractor on salary. He eventually got another job because he desperately needed more money. When his client found out that he was leaving and asked his salary, the client called my contractor and screamed at them for ripping them off and demanded his salary be raised.

3) There is a self-employed contactor with decades of experience who works at my office and we hang out. When he found out my salary he was quite certain that I was being underpaid.

All that being said, I don't think that I would be as aggressive to capture the full 30%.

Okay, you're probably underpaid. I'd go for the full 30% at the next job. I wouldn't bother at the current place. My guess is that their business model depends on underpaying people and replacing them with fresh faces when they leave for greener pastures.

Post: #6

They won't like if you do it as a power play without the intention of leaving. You really need to gauge how much they actually value you being there and what kind of pull you have. Get an offer first, then tell your boss about it and why you're planning on leaving. Tell them what the new position gives you that you don't get in your current role. If they want to keep you around they'll usually offer to match it, otherwise they'll let you go. It may take some days to work back to you about what they decide to do if you're at a large company. You should already have a feel for if its a place that turns over more inexperienced people a lot or is a place where people make long careers. A lot of turnover means they probably aren't making much effort to retain people who find better offers.

Post: #7

I would not mention another offer to your current employer. Two reasons:

1. Most bosses don't like it if you use leverage against them, and will interpret it as an ultimatum, regardless of how you present it.
2. Once you bring up the prospect of potentially leaving, your boss is likely to see you as already checked out, even if he agrees to give you a raise. From that point forward, it's a matter of time that you will leave any way, voluntarily or otherwise.

Here's what I would recommend instead:

- Do a lot of research on the market rate for your position. I highly, highly recommend that you install the Blind app. It has employees of major companies sharing recent comp packages anonymously. You can search chats without installing the app as well: https://www.teamblind.com/search. This is a total game changer, at least in the tech industry. Glassdoor, Google Jobs, and Linkedin are also good sources of salary information, but they are typically estimates. Angel List requires employers to list salaries for their job listings as well. Recruiters can be a good source of information too, but take what they say with a grain of salt.
- After your research, meet with your boss and present your case for your raise: lay out your accomplishments, your ambitions at the company, and ask for the raise in the context of the research you did on the market rate for your position. DO NOT mention the Blind app or any discussions with other employers or recruiters. You can cite the other sources I mentioned.
- Most important step, and this may sound harsh: don't be a pussy. It sounds like you have issues with handling conflict and frame control. For example, you're already weakening your negotiating position by saying you'll take a lower amount and you haven't even started negotiating yet. You should ask for an amount at the very top of the range if you are good at your job. Put your boss on the defensive to counter your offer, don't do it for him. You have to have a clear idea of your value, and firmly push for it. To borrow from Roosh: "If you don't feel like a creep, you're not pushing hard enough."
- You can interview at other companies in parallel with this process. No need to wait until you get another offer.

People have an exaggerated idea of the negative repercussions of asking for more money. I don't think most bosses will fault you for it, and they may even respect you more. But never challenge their power by presenting it as an ultimatum. And don't discuss any interactions you've had with other companies.

Post: #8

You can't be indecisive about that situation, because you could lose face. You have to make the decision to leave, and only then as a back up stay if they raise your salary. That puts you in the position of power.

I had two job offers and used one as bargaining power to increase my salary and they took the bait.

Post: #9

Understand that if you do this it shows your employer that you are shopping around for other opportunities so to them you become somewhat of a liability. They may give you something to keep you happy for the short term but then will start looking for your replacement. Something to keep in mind.

Your current employer will certainly not give you a 30% raise, or even a 20% raise, but you may very well make 20%-30% walking in the door of a new company. Having a stable job but being open to better opportunities is the best position to be in; you can be picky about where you work and how much you make.

Post: #10

Unless you are absolutely indispensable, this is not a good idea.

Post: #11

It's like dating. Be prepared to walk and always have better options lined up before you do so.

Post: #12

Hi I used to work as a contractor for a quasi governmental company in the DC area. I found myself in a similar situation where I felt that I was being underpaid. I had the manager of the client I was working at talk to the Rep of my contractor. It helped be get around a 20% raise. If you have a good relationship with your manager at the client site you could try something similar to what I did and see if it helps.

Post: #13

Thanks for all of the advice guys. I really appreciate it

(02-20-2018 05:52 AM)Lampwick Wrote:  ...

- Most important step, and this may sound harsh: don't be a pussy. It sounds like you have issues with handling conflict and frame control. For example, you're already weakening your negotiating position by saying you'll take a lower amount and you haven't even started negotiating yet.
...

Fair point. My only defense is that I went to graduate school over a decade ago which wrecked me professionally and financially. It took me 8 years to recover. When I took my current job, I simply was not in a position to negotiate. I had to take the salary offered. This is really the first time in my life where I could even consider negotiating.

Post: #14

(02-21-2018 07:51 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  Thanks for all of the advice guys. I really appreciate it

(02-20-2018 05:52 AM)Lampwick Wrote:  ...

- Most important step, and this may sound harsh: don't be a pussy. It sounds like you have issues with handling conflict and frame control. For example, you're already weakening your negotiating position by saying you'll take a lower amount and you haven't even started negotiating yet.
...

Fair point. My only defense is that I went to graduate school over a decade ago which wrecked me professionally and financially. It took me 8 years to recover. When I took my current job, I simply was not in a position to negotiate. I had to take the salary offered. This is really the first time in my life where I could even consider negotiating.

It's all good man. To be fair, General Stalin makes an excellent point, which is that it is much easier to get paid what you're worth by switching companies than by trying to get a raise at your current company.

The employment system in the U.S. is basically broken because companies optimize for acquisition of talent, but not retention of talent. In many cases, companies' compensation schemes make things less flexible with things like this, especially at big companies.

Some additional notes:

- Compensation ranges at companies may be tied to your level. In other words, you may have to get promoted to earn what you're worth. This happened at one company I worked, where "Senior" had to be added to my job title to get the compensation I was asking for. This was a formality because the job responsibilities were the same. You may want to consider this angle if there is a similar policy at your company.
- Compensation and promotion are often tied to a regular review process. When employees ask for a raise, a common tactic for bosses is to say, "The review process is at X time, let's discuss it then." Many bosses will try to kick the can down the road, which is the opposite of what you want. If you absolutely need to wait until the review, then you want to be really clear on what you want, and defining with your boss what it will take to get it. And then you will want to communicate with your boss regularly before the review process to ensure that his expectations are being met, so that there are no surprises at review time. Document everything in email if possible by summarizing your conversations and getting his confirmation that you are on the same page.
- Your Achilles' heel is that you really like your job. That's great, but companies will often exploit this to underpay you. My advice is geared towards the fact that you like your job, and that you ideally want to stay there and maintain good relations with your boss. Do your research, and negotiate confidently. But if someone continually mistreats you, be prepared to walk.

Good luck.

Post: #15

(02-21-2018 07:51 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  Thanks for all of the advice guys. I really appreciate it

(02-20-2018 05:52 AM)Lampwick Wrote:  

Fair point. My only defense is that I went to graduate school over a decade ago which wrecked me professionally and financially. It took me 8 years to recover. When I took my current job, I simply was not in a position to negotiate. I had to take the salary offered. This is really the first time in my life where I could even consider negotiating.

Since your employer and client are different. I would suggest contacting your employer to see if he is willing to give a raise. mention the fact the client is happy with your performance and the effort that has been put in by you. If you have an idea how much your hourly rates are that would give a better idea when asking for a raise. As your client is happy with your work the negotiation may not be that difficult .

Post: #16

The only person NOT being underpaid is usually the last hired.

IF you ROCK, you're good at your job, and you're growing faster than your coworkers you need to transition to a new company to reset salary to regional standards. Companies simply won't keep up with what you're worth via merit increases or even promotions.

Post: #17

(02-19-2018 12:13 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  Has anyone here ever used a job offer to negotiate a raise at one's current job? How does one go about doing that in the USA?

Yes, what you do is hand in your notice and state salary and reason for leaving. If you're a valuable asset they'll fight to keep you however, and I think this applies to you based on your post, if you're not a valuable asset to them, they'll let you go.

Either way you'll end up with more money, you shouldn't be loyal to a company though, they'll cut you without a second thought if need be so do the same to them.

Alternative is waiting until review time, bring up the salary differences between your job and the industry standard then see what happens.

Post: #18

I would talk to the person that has the power to give you a pay rise, gently.

Tell him you love working here, and would like to stay on, but you have become aware that your pay is well below "industry standards" and its affecting your quality of life.

Ask him if you can get a 20% pay rise to match "commercial conditions"

Don't mention the other job.

If he can't do it, then go for the other job, but don't make it a threat or ultimatum, just say you need to secure a fair remuneration package.

If they offer to match salary after you resign, DO NOT STAY - they had their chance.

Also remember, you go to work to earn money, so always work at the place that will pay you the most.

In life you usually have to change jobs to get a pay rise, just seems to be the way it is.

Post: #19

I did this and they never forgave me, of course i planned on exiting at some point all along so unless you only plan to stay temporarily at your current job- do not leverage another offer. If they match your offer or give you more, depending on how much they need you, they will then make certain you are no longer a liability by either hiring others with similar skill sets or asking you to transfer some key responsibilities. Its downhill from there...


You either:
a) formally ask for a raise and don't tell them you have another offer.
b) take the other offer and leave.

Post: #20

Buddy of mine did this recently:

1. Be an asset to the organization, be hard to replace. If you are not here, don't even bother trying.

2. Ask for letters of recommendations. Say you are considering applying to go back to school to get your MS/PhD. Or make up some reason that will take you far away and force you to leave your job.

3. When they ask why you want to do X, use the following conversation to casually bring up financial related reasons without specifically saying you want a raise. "It's a great program, it's very interesting, and the demand is high enough that I won't ever have to worry about supporting my family" for example.

4. Wait a week or two until you get the letters. Then a couple more weeks after that. In this time, bust your ass, be the 110% employee.

5. After about a month. Say you've been accepted to the program, have thought a lot about it, but really like it at your current job. Now start negotiating.

He did this, with zero intention of applying anywhere or using the letters of recommendations for either. But it made his bosses realize they might lose a valuable team member. Writing the letters of recommendations made them focus on all his positive achievements and contributions. They paid special attention to his efforts during that time, so he busted his ass. Then they had to spend a month thinking about losing the guy.

Finally when he went in with the intent to negotiate the raise, he was in a very powerful position at the negotiating table. He walked away with a pay raise, a promotion, and the company paying to send off him to get some new certifications.

Post: #21

(03-02-2018 11:50 AM)Atomic Wrote:  He did this, with zero intention of applying anywhere or using the letters of recommendations for either. But it made his bosses realize they might lose a valuable team member.

That very clever, bravo to your mate!

Post: #22

(03-02-2018 11:50 AM)Atomic Wrote:  Buddy of mine did this recently:

1. Be an asset to the organization, be hard to replace. If you are not here, don't even bother trying.

2. Ask for letters of recommendations. Say you are considering applying to go back to school to get your MS/PhD. Or make up some reason that will take you far away and force you to leave your job.

3. When they ask why you want to do X, use the following conversation to casually bring up financial related reasons without specifically saying you want a raise. "It's a great program, it's very interesting, and the demand is high enough that I won't ever have to worry about supporting my family" for example.

4. Wait a week or two until you get the letters. Then a couple more weeks after that. In this time, bust your ass, be the 110% employee.

5. After about a month. Say you've been accepted to the program, have thought a lot about it, but really like it at your current job. Now start negotiating.

He did this, with zero intention of applying anywhere or using the letters of recommendations for either. But it made his bosses realize they might lose a valuable team member. Writing the letters of recommendations made them focus on all his positive achievements and contributions. They paid special attention to his efforts during that time, so he busted his ass. Then they had to spend a month thinking about losing the guy.

Finally when he went in with the intent to negotiate the raise, he was in a very powerful position at the negotiating table. He walked away with a pay raise, a promotion, and the company paying to send off him to get some new certifications.

What does this friend of yours do? What field? I'm very curious.

I can't of any lines of work where number 1 would be applicable: 99% of employees are interchangeable cogs, not lynchpins, and that's surely by design(It's not necessarily insidious but to keep the business running smoothly for years its preferable).

I don't think this something that would work well for most people.

Post: #23

(03-02-2018 08:05 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(03-02-2018 11:50 AM)Atomic Wrote:  Buddy of mine did this recently:

1. Be an asset to the organization, be hard to replace. If you are not here, don't even bother trying.

2. Ask for letters of recommendations. Say you are considering applying to go back to school to get your MS/PhD. Or make up some reason that will take you far away and force you to leave your job.

3. When they ask why you want to do X, use the following conversation to casually bring up financial related reasons without specifically saying you want a raise. "It's a great program, it's very interesting, and the demand is high enough that I won't ever have to worry about supporting my family" for example.

4. Wait a week or two until you get the letters. Then a couple more weeks after that. In this time, bust your ass, be the 110% employee.

5. After about a month. Say you've been accepted to the program, have thought a lot about it, but really like it at your current job. Now start negotiating.

He did this, with zero intention of applying anywhere or using the letters of recommendations for either. But it made his bosses realize they might lose a valuable team member. Writing the letters of recommendations made them focus on all his positive achievements and contributions. They paid special attention to his efforts during that time, so he busted his ass. Then they had to spend a month thinking about losing the guy.

Finally when he went in with the intent to negotiate the raise, he was in a very powerful position at the negotiating table. He walked away with a pay raise, a promotion, and the company paying to send off him to get some new certifications.

What does this friend of yours do? What field? I'm very curious.

I can't of any lines of work where number 1 would be applicable: 99% of employees are interchangeable cogs, not lynchpins, and that's surely by design(It's not necessarily insidious but to keep the business running smoothly for years its preferable).

I don't think this something that would work well for most people.

I don't think your assumptions are correct. I know many people that considered valuable assets to the organization. We're not talking Wal-Mart greeters here, were talking people with skills that have been honed over their careers that combined with a positive attitude and a dedication to their jobs make them incredibly difficult to replace.

Post: #24

(03-02-2018 08:24 PM)Atomic Wrote:  snip for brevity

I don't think your assumptions are correct. I know many people that considered valuable assets to the organization. We're not talking Wal-Mart greeters here, were talking people with skills that have been honed over their careers that combined with a positive attitude and a dedication to their jobs make them incredibly difficult to replace.

I don't care if you hang out with CEO's or with hobos. That's not what I asked you.

Worthless, smart-ass bolded comment aside, why didn't you answer my question? What field/line of work is this? Not asking for a company name and address.

Not everyone is either working unskilled jobs, like wal-mart greeters, or highly specialized jobs(which is what I imagine this is...if you're telling the truth that is), like a mathematician, engineer, lawyer, etc. The likelihood of this working could be dependent on the type of work he does; the strategy outlined wouldn't work for you Wal-mart Greeter no matter how good he was.

Post: #25

He's in the Aviation industry. Probably classify him as a "mid career" pilot. The certifications I was referring to is new type ratings, and I think something about extended over water flying. Basically negotiated from a continental US route to an international gig.

So yeah I would called it a highly specialized job.