Post: #26

(01-30-2018 02:12 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 01:01 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  Sucks no morning coffee before going on a run (unless you wanna eat dinner at 3 pm)... And no herbal teas at night (unless you don't want to eat breakfast for 15 hours).

Military people could never pull this off--at work by 7 am and don't get off work until 4 pm or later--There's 9 hours right there. You figure, your morning routine, commute both ways, depending on where you live, and this would be impossible unless your first meal was at lunch time, but damn that'd be hard after morning PT when you're starving to death.

Not trying to attack you here, but I just couldn't let this slip by. I think it's important to point out that there's always a "reason" why fasting is "too hard." Same goes for other things that seem difficult at the surface level. Military guys are not so different as other people in their ability to generate said excuses if it regards a practice not already ingrained in their unique culture.

General Stanley McChrystal, in contrast, is well-known for eating one meal a day over years and years and years to maintain his energy levels and a physique that his men will respect (see interviews of him by Ferriss). He's inspired other men in his ranks to do the same, and I'm sure plenty other military men at all levels and vocations have engaged in intermittent fasting, long fasts, and other generally difficult things regardless of their schedules. Many elite soldiers throughout history have pushed the boundaries of human performance and set the bar for the rest of us, as I'm sure doesn't need much saying.

Also, there are plenty of non-military guys who work all day, have morning routines and commutes and rigid schedules, etc, and do "PT" in the morning fasted and still don't eat until noon or later. I've been one of them. Hell, before I left the states this winter, I was essentially doing PT twice before eating my first meal around noon (though at the time time I knew nothing about coffee starting the digestive processes). It really wasn't that tough once I got in the swing, as with most things.

One thing that did really prove to be a bit too much for me was doing a 10-day full-on fast while continuing to hit the gym and also practicing with (helping coach) the local high school wrestling team. That sapped the energy more than I wanted and made it tough to be there a hundred percent in practice for the kids. In the end, I decided against my original goal of 20 days and cut it in half. But your body will adjust to IF (and likely time restricted eating) quick and a morning workout won't mess with you much - because you are still taking in plenty of energy to carry you through.

Sometimes certain ideas are just not up our alley, and there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes we just aren't interested.

But you have to be careful of the rationalizations you make to yourself about why you can't do things - or, more accurately, why you choose to not do things. I believe when you justify with reasons why you "can't" that don't really hold up to close scrutiny, you train your brain to more readily look for the easy passes in all areas of life when you come across challenging practices that could really benefit you. If there are others out there doing it under similar circumstances, chances are that with a little acclimation, so could you.

Man.... You stewed on that one for a long time before replying. I had forgotten about this thread.

No worries. I don't take any insult from that at all. I respect constructive criticism. All good, Brother.

All I would say is, regarding the military, there is no "lunch hour" and there is no, "when I get off." You're there and you are running drills/exercises until the work is done. Some days you don't get lunch. You're working. Some days you don't go home at the end of the day; you stay and work through the night, and that's just when you are "in town." When you are "out of town," it's even worse.

I guess I should've been more specific about to what I was inferring.

I agree that there are a million excuses why you can't do something. No doubt about it. I'm totally with you there.

But, when you don't have solid control on your schedule, you eat when they say eat. You don't have to, but you're to blame if this thing (whatever it is) goes on for another 48 hours and you don't eat.

That's all...

Post: #27

^ haha I didn't mean to give the impression I was stewing over it, buddy. I just happened to be rereading the thread and hadn't caught your post on the first go. I was compelled to reply because I thought it was a valid point for everyone to consider.

Points taken, though - thanks for not taking the criticism too personally. By design, I've lived a life devoid of oversight or structure for a long time now, which comes with its own challenges and pitfalls. Given that, though, I probably shouldn't preach on the topic much more than I already have. Carry on, and thank you for your service, by the way.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #28

Does this only work if your time window is during daylight hours? Dr. Patrick mentions that humans are diurnal so sort of the point of the time restricted eating is that you limit your body's digestive and metabolic functions to the daytime rhythm. If I set a 10 hours daily intake window of 12:00pm - 10:00pm does that defeat the purpose because I am eating well into nighttime hours?

Post: #29

(02-07-2018 03:39 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Does this only work if your time window is during daylight hours? Dr. Patrick mentions that humans are diurnal so sort of the point of the time restricted eating is that you limit your body's digestive and metabolic functions to the daytime rhythm. If I set a 10 hours daily intake window of 12:00pm - 10:00pm does that defeat the purpose because I am eating well into nighttime hours?

Anyone has an answer to that? It may be mentioned during the podcast?

Post: #30

Is green tea in the morning OK? I've recently managed to kick coffee, which has really helped with mood and alertness.

I always have more energy once I've woken up if I skip breakfast. My problem is that I like to have a decent lunch- I usually fry up a massive stir fry or an omelette, or maybe a joint of pork. If I'm working away from my unit then I skip lunch altogether and feel great until around three when I totally crash.

Post: #31

(02-07-2018 03:39 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Does this only work if your time window is during daylight hours? Dr. Patrick mentions that humans are diurnal so sort of the point of the time restricted eating is that you limit your body's digestive and metabolic functions to the daytime rhythm. If I set a 10 hours daily intake window of 12:00pm - 10:00pm does that defeat the purpose because I am eating well into nighttime hours?

I don't see why it would matter much.

Studies done on modern hunter-gatherer societies show that none of them sleep at sundown, they often ate late at night, and they usually sleep less than what people would guess. Their schedules look a lot like 6.5 hours of sleep a night total, sometimes less, not infrequently a brief period of wakefulness for smoking pipe tobacco and fucking.

Most anthropologists who viewed the relevant data acquired during their study of the San people *(different tribes across different areas) found that despite no communication and gentic differences, their sleep patterns were basically identical. They concluded that their sleeping patterns were almost completely regulated by the temperature shifts that occur at night and had nothing to do with the sunset/sunrise. So if you want your sleep to be more restful, open the window and turn off the climate control.

Post: #32

It might be different for you, but green tea on an empty stomach always makes me feel sick.

Post: #33

(05-21-2018 02:44 AM)roberto Wrote:  Is green tea in the morning OK? I've recently managed to kick coffee, which has really helped with mood and alertness.

I always have more energy once I've woken up if I skip breakfast. My problem is that I like to have a decent lunch- I usually fry up a massive stir fry or an omelette, or maybe a joint of pork. If I'm working away from my unit then I skip lunch altogether and feel great until around three when I totally crash.

From everything I have herd green-tea is fine as long as you don't add anything to it





I think there may be some solid info in this video.... however all I hear when this video plays is "Look at those arms"

Post: #34

In the original video, she states that anything that kicks off the digestive system will trigger the start of the eating window. Even black coffee needs to be broken down in the gut to use the good stuff it has. So basically anything other than water triggers it.

Post: #35

(02-07-2018 03:39 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Does this only work if your time window is during daylight hours? Dr. Patrick mentions that humans are diurnal so sort of the point of the time restricted eating is that you limit your body's digestive and metabolic functions to the daytime rhythm. If I set a 10 hours daily intake window of 12:00pm - 10:00pm does that defeat the purpose because I am eating well into nighttime hours?

Dr. Satchin Panda addresses this question, and the short answer is that we don't know yet, as it hasn't been specifically studied. Here's what he says we do know:

• You should stop eating 2-4 hours before bedtime, depending on your metabolism. Having food in the stomach diverts blood to aid in digestion, which raises your core body temperature. Core body temperature needs to drop in order to induce sleep.
• Similarly, melatonin rises in the body within 2-3 hours of bedtime. Melatonin reduces insulin production, which may lead to high glucose levels in the blood for a long period of time if you have food in your system.
• Insulin sensitivity has been shown to be highest early in the morning. But it is not clear if this phenomenon is relative to the beginning of the feeding window. In other words, if you regularly start eating later in the day, we don't know if you will experience similar insulin sensitivity from that first meal as if you ate it early in the morning.
• He believes that a time-restricted feeding window, even if not optimal according to the above points, is better than a random feeding window.
  

References:

Skip to 9m20s and 45m31s.

Post: #36

One important element that I haven`t seen anyone mention here is fasting, and it`s effect on mTor. mTor, or the mammalian target of rapamycin is a nutrient sensor, or an integrator of signals from the environment if you will. It evolved very early on in the history of life, as being able to sense nutrient availability would have been essential for early organisms. (That is still the case of course.) mTor basically decides whether the cells divide, based on nutrient availability, or whether the cells wait until there is a more nutritionally opportune time to divide. The cell cycle and the various processes involved require energy after all.

When Tor is not expresses much, in other words when there are little nutrients available, the cells will upregulate genes that are involved in repair and maintenance mechanisms. You might have heard of autophagy, which is a process of breaking down (using enzymes) damaged and denatured proteins that clog up the works so to speak. These proteins can then be recycled and reused by cells. The same process in mitochondria is called mitophagy. Also DNA repair, antioxidant function is increased when Tor is low. The cells prioritize survival instead of reproduction. The gene that is transcribed to a greater extent when mTor is decreased is called DAF-16/FOXO. This pathway has been studied extensively, and is pretty well understood. So taking mTor lower will extend life. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5572328/

   
Not shown here, but amino acids elevate IGF-1 directly and hence Tor.

But where this get`s interesting is when you realize that fat does not move the needle on mTor at all. Fat can only be metabolized with oxygen. So fat was not available as fuel for cells until after the symbiosis with the mitochondria and the formation of eukaryotic cells, roughly half way through the history of life on the planet. This happened billions of years after the mTor pathway was already evolved. So mTor and increased rate of cell division and growth is only effected by amino acids (protein) and carbohydrates.

   

Any type of fasting, intermittent fasting or caloric restriction, they all work by lowering mTor. That`s what gives you the effect of a slower rate of cell division and hence slower rate of ageing, and also the upregulation of cell repair and maintenance mentioned. So you can theoretically, with a high fat diet, get the same effect, without feeling much hunger. This just might be a better way of achieving your goals.


A few important caveats here;

-You must eat protein Everyone knows this of course, but just in case. The reason is what I explained above. If you take mTor too low, by not eating any protein or carbs, your cells will not divide enough. (So there is a sweet spot here basically.) This will effect bone density, immunity etc. Of course protein also has other essential functions. You don`t have to eat any carbs however, they are not essential. Tons of veggies and fruit yes, but either high fiber or high fat. Nothing that elevates blood glucose much. So, avocados, olives, spinach, but not bananas and potatoes. You get the point. As for protein I would aim for 100-150 grams on an average day for an adult male. This diet will in itself slow down ageing and improve health, compared to a grain based diet. (Should also be enough protein to see some gains in the gym.)

-The types of fat you consume matters a lot. I assume if you`ve read this far you already know this, and there are threads in the Life section with all the info you need.

   

-In the intermittent fasting periods, applying these principles, you can eat, as long as it`s nothing containing amino acids or carbs of any sort. So a cup of coffee or tea with butter/coconut oil etc. (bulletproof maybe) is fine. The way I see it, you want to dip into ketosis occasionally, but certainly not permanently. But it might be easier to do intermittent fasting or any equivalent concept knowing you can eat healthy fat during those periods.

Hope you got something from this geek-a-tron.

Post: #37

Post: #38

Just watched the video in the original post, fascinating stuff. I'll be trying this as of tomorrow.

Has anyone else tried time restricted eating over a period of time and noticed a difference in how they look and feel?

Post: #39

Man I used to look at people who talked about intermittent fasting/ time restricted eating like vegans. Just the general stereotype of holier then thou types...

But I tell you what.... after starting in on this time restricted eating I just wanna stand on the roof tops and shout to the masses about how time restricted eating or intermittent fasting is only way to be.

I definitely have noticed a difference in overall energy levels, alertness, fat burning, and overall well being.

Another benefit I realized was...... I no longer have gas. I didn't even realize it till I was playing Xbox online with a friend and he said something along the lines of "I farted and it smells horrible" and I realized... I haven't farted(expect that one good morning toot when I first wake up) since I started doing time restricted eating.

Post: #40

I decided to try this as of last Monday. First 2 or 3 days were hard as I´m used to eating a big breakfast at 7 each morning before work and also late night snack but it gets easier with each day. Also the added benefit is that I´m not snacking on chocolate or something else unhealthy in the evenings.

I do work out a few times a week and am using testosterone injections. I recently started with the injections and had been experiencing a lot of weight gain, both muscle gain and water retention? (hope its the right term).

After starting with the fasting I have been loosing weight fast. My friend who is a bodybuilder commented on my stomach fat and said it was really hard and I was clearly not in "fat burning" mode. I told him about time restricted eating I was doing, and he said it was rubbish because I am on these injections. His view is that I should be eating as much food as I can. I am not doing these injections to get big.

Anyways, I can clearly see a change. Never before have I tried something that seems so promising. I see I am losing fat quickly and my friend is clearly wrong. I feel good, have lots of energy and I´m gonna stick with this for a while.

I just got to say thank you to the OP for posting this. This is just one of a few things I´ve picked up on this forum that has improved my life. It´s like a gift that keeps on giving. It´s much appreciated.

Post: #41

(05-21-2018 12:07 PM)Lampwick Wrote:  

(02-07-2018 03:39 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Does this only work if your time window is during daylight hours? Dr. Patrick mentions that humans are diurnal so sort of the point of the time restricted eating is that you limit your body's digestive and metabolic functions to the daytime rhythm. If I set a 10 hours daily intake window of 12:00pm - 10:00pm does that defeat the purpose because I am eating well into nighttime hours?

Dr. Satchin Panda addresses this question, and the short answer is that we don't know yet, as it hasn't been specifically studied. Here's what he says we do know:

• You should stop eating 2-4 hours before bedtime, depending on your metabolism. Having food in the stomach diverts blood to aid in digestion, which raises your core body temperature. Core body temperature needs to drop in order to induce sleep.
• Similarly, melatonin rises in the body within 2-3 hours of bedtime. Melatonin reduces insulin production, which may lead to high glucose levels in the blood for a long period of time if you have food in your system.
• Insulin sensitivity has been shown to be highest early in the morning. But it is not clear if this phenomenon is relative to the beginning of the feeding window. In other words, if you regularly start eating later in the day, we don't know if you will experience similar insulin sensitivity from that first meal as if you ate it early in the morning.
• He believes that a time-restricted feeding window, even if not optimal according to the above points, is better than a random feeding window.
  

References:

Skip to 9m20s and 45m31s.

As a totally random aside - seeing Rhonda Patrick there pregnant as fuck and holding her belly gave me a weird sort of fuzzy feeling inside. I'm 50, don't have kids, and never wanted them, but for some reason seeing that image struck a primal nerve. Circle of life and all that shit.

As for removal of all nutrients aside from water during that 16+ hour window, I don't see how I could manage that, seeing as how I really need to take some sleep supplements due to medications I have to take. The powder has glycine, which sure as hell kicks off some liver/gut function.

Post: #42

From reading and watching and trying a lot of these over the years, the primary reason why they work is because overall you are consuming fewer calories. If you track your calories via something like MyFitnessPal, it'll be obvious. There are some other benefits but it's mostly to do with your lifestyle and ability to adhere to the diet. If you can only do big workouts in the morning, probably not gonna be able to skip breakfast and lunch. Some of the hardcore proponents of these diets are also on drugs / TRT which skew the results massively. If you're a regular guy with a regular job, your results "may vary".

By the way, never get your woman on any form of IF, including this one. They are built more for snacking on small meals over the whole day, unlike us.

Post: #43

(05-28-2018 02:23 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  From reading and watching and trying a lot of these over the years, the primary reason why they work is because overall you are consuming fewer calories. If you track your calories via something like MyFitnessPal, it'll be obvious. There are some other benefits but it's mostly to do with your lifestyle and ability to adhere to the diet. If you can only do big workouts in the morning, probably not gonna be able to skip breakfast and lunch. Some of the hardcore proponents of these diets are also on drugs / TRT which skew the results massively. If you're a regular guy with a regular job, your results "may vary".

By the way, never get your woman on any form of IF, including this one. They are built more for snacking on small meals over the whole day, unlike us.

If you watch the videos, there are more benefits than just reduced calories. They talk specifically about eating the same total calories in a restricted window and gaining a greater benefit vs normal extended windows. Other benefits include gut healing (tight junctions), lower inflammation etc.

For what it's worth, my ex did IF eating and loved it. My mom (71) also does it, and fasts for 72 hours every week. She also lifts weights and eats clean. Takes supplements and HRT. Has been doing this for years and years. She has the blood markers/bone density of a 40 year old woman and is very lean and has incredibly strong hands for a 71 year old woman (opens jars that would give soy boys trouble). The only thing that gives away her age is the skin of her hands (very transparent)

I realize she is an extreme outlier, but nevertheless women can certainly pull this shit off if they are motivated.

Post: #44

Fasting is very easy. You just have to find out your optimum discipline technique. For me, I like to rationalize things.

So, if I'm at work and I'm getting hungry and it's past my eating time, I will say to myself:

"This is just your brain sending funny hormone signals to your body. Wait 5 minutes and see what your body says."

I tend to find that hunger pangs subside once you make a conscious decision not to give in.

I know that's somewhat nerdy but the more you understand how the body works the better you can convince yourself to pull through.

I do this with reading and writing as well. Sometimes you just have to tell your body who is boss. I learned how to do this because I used to get into arguments with my parents and family and they would say I was always rationalizing things.



The beauty of fasting when you're hungry is that you build your ability to fight against impulses. It's an alpha trait that will always be useful.

Cr33pin, thanks for making this thread. I learned something new.

Post: #45

The key points I took away from the video is that time restricted eating has profound effects on muscle mass without any other factors being altered.

Your body metabolises food more efficiently, your gut gets to rest and there are a number of benefits which it appears are only recently being recognised and understood, such as reduced recurrence of cancer in sufferers and complete resolution of type 2 diabetes.

The logic behind it makes sense, human beings did not evolve to eat the way people do now. It's not surprising that modern eating habits have some negative effects on the body.

In the Joe Rogan interview GSP said he has never felt better since starting time restricted eating. Increased muscle mass, decreased body fat, sleeping better, feels better in general, symptoms disappeared - not sure if he was talking about diabetes or something else. Sounds like it's had a major impact on his life.

TLOZ thread on light boxes and how they can reset and sync the body's circadian clock is in a similar vein to time restricted eating, this is another string to the same bow. Sleep and eat the way we are evolved to.

Thanks for posting Cr33pin. Will report back.

Post: #46

(01-03-2018 10:41 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  I started eating during a 10 hour window after listeningto this podcast. I actually only eat meals in a 7 hour window. I don't eat anything after 7pm or anything before 9am. However at 9am I only have some bullet proof coffee and a banana, I don't eat my first meal of the day until 12. Then I usually have turkey sausage and eggs, sometime around 2-3 I will have a sandwich and then around 6 I have a decent dinner.

You will have better results cutting out the coffee and banana in the morning. just a sip of a coffee is enough calories for your body to start producing the digestive enzym which last on average 9h in effectiveness. So your last meal your not digesting sugars and fats optimally

Personally I find it hard to have the discipline to do it all the time

Post: #47

I don't know you guys but since starting the IF, I'm getting incredibly hard boners in the morning. Might be the deadlifts too.

Post: #48

I've been doing IF, eating between 12pm and 7pm. BP Coffee in the morning. Low carb, no sugar no grains. I find it makes a huge difference (I have problems with autoimmunity).

Post: #49

(05-29-2018 09:41 AM)Columbo Wrote:  I don't know you guys but since starting the IF, I'm getting incredibly hard boners in the morning. Might be the deadlifts too.

Post: #50

Please, no. Just tell us Double or Super.