Post: #126

Good luck running a nation with the right to bear arms where officer safety is the highest priority in the land.

Good luck running a nation where the police are acting under the same system as soldiers.

And good luck running a nation where your wars are so dirty that soldiers have to choose between their nation and their soul.

God does not hold the system accountable. He holds you accountable. End of story.

Post: #127

Delete.

Post: #128

(12-11-2017 05:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Good luck running a nation with the right to bear arms where officer safety is the highest priority in the land.

Good luck running a nation where the police are acting under the same system as soldiers.

And good luck running a nation where your wars are so dirty that soldiers have to choose between their nation and their soul.

God does not hold the system accountable. He holds you accountable. End of story.

Good luck having anything where people do not follow orders.

St Paul instructs us that governments are created by God's will for the benefit of all; good luck running a government where people disobey in the field.

American soldiers operated just fine at shooting each other during the first Civil War, even if they were drafted and disagreed with the war. There were also those who resisted the draft and rioted against it.

In WW2, there were conscientious objectors to the war who went to jail for refusing to serve the draft.

But in all these cases the principle remains the same. You disobey before you go into the field, not once you're already in the moment. Once you in are part of the machine you must obey, or else the machine cannot function. Hence why in virtually every army throughout history, the punishment for desertion or failure to obey was met with insane jail time or even death!

Only in our pussy, decadent America do men like Bergdahl get to desert the army, cause many good men to die, and get a slap on the wrist for it.

Post: #129

Then your boy Philip Mitchell Brailsford was guilty for not leaving the force when they gave him SOPs that required him to unreasonably execute confused citizens.

There are rules to war and an unlawful order may be refused.

There are laws in a nation and unlawful SOPs may be refused. The onus then falls on the superiors to fire the insubordinate and invite a lawsuit.

It's galling that you fop around this forum on a white horse attempting to gather priestly robes around yourself but when some harmless simp gets gunned down for no good reason by a cop you suddenly jump through hoops to defend the psychological tools the devil has used to murder tens of millions of human beings last century alone.

Go to God and talk about "submitting to the machine" for the greatness of your earthly kingdom, but don't expect the rest of us to sit here and suffer through your odious lectures about what a morally upright man you are when your stated morals are the kind that paved the way for every major genocide in human history.

Post: #130

(12-11-2017 09:08 AM)Samseau Wrote:  But in all these cases the principle remains the same. You disobey before you go into the field, not once you're already in the moment. Once you in are part of the machine you must obey, or else the machine cannot function. Hence why in virtually every army throughout history, the punishment for desertion or failure to obey was met with insane jail time or even death!

...which is precisely why soldiers are criminally liable, up to and including their own executions, for obeying unlawful orders. It's intended to stop the machine when it malfunctions, since the machine was built for the sole purpose of serving the laws promulgated by the government which, as you correctly note, St. Paul tells us was elevated only by God's will.

The issuance of an unlawful order is rebellion "against what God has instituted", as is willful obedience to that order, and that, too, is a plain matter long settled by those same laws. You're arguing a nonsensical position.

Post: #131

To get a proper gauge for where I sit on this argument, does anyone know whether this officer was in fact following correct procedure or whether he got off on some form of technicality? I find it hard to believe [And distressing if true] that the officer's training dictated that he act in such a feminine and frankly asinine way.

The notion that law enforcement have such a long winded, almost comically ridiculous procedure triggers my bullshit radar. Surely their training can't be that pathetic. There is no intelligence to any single order he gave. He also had about as much composure as a female college student holding a gun for the first time.

Post: #132

Well, the jury didn't see the video, so he got off because he followed "proper department procedures".
No idea if any flak went towards the officer actually giving the strange orders.

Post: #133

Samseau I'm really confused.

You realize cops are not soldiers right? You also realize average America citizens are not their enemies?

This cop was not on a battlefield, and he was dealing with an American with constitutional rights. All your moral and religious arguments are great, but in the USA the Constitution Trump's the Bible.

Aloha!

Post: #134

There's been a few people that I think are misunderstanding my posts, so I'll clarify further:

BOTH the below can be (and I believe are) true:

1. The police officer barking orders, the one who killed the suspect, and their superiors are let's say "a majority" liable for the suspect's death.

2. The suspect ALSO made poor decisions that contributed to his death. Did he deserve to die? Stupid question, but of course not.

Further, when others claim the officers should've ordered them to lay down and cuffed them, I think that's incorrect. I am no expert on standard operating procedures in instances such as this, but it would make more sense to have the suspects walk back wards with their hands up (or something to that effect) as Samseau suggested, until they are very clear of the hotel room they exited and so some of the officers can continue to cover the hallway as other officers move them deeper into the hallway where they can get around a corner or be in a safer position both for them as well as the officers and hotel guests.

That's all I'm saying. It's pretty unreasonable to suggest that the officers (or anyone) should walk up to and cuff suspects only a very short distance outside the hotel room which has been reported as having a rifle in it (and has the potential for more suspects inside).

Poor training, over-militarization of police, moving away from beat cops actually living/walking their own neighborhoods, etc... are all bad and this is a tragedy of poor approach to the situation (as far as I can tell the police never called the room to talk to the people in it prior to approaching the room) and horrible handling/orders to the suspects.

Also, back to one of the original responses to me. Atlanta Man, this certainly reads like you're saying the forum has a racist "slant" when it comes to law enforcement interactions (why else would the race of the parties be relevant in your statement). Since you think you were clear and I think your intent is different, I'll only repeat your words here. If you had stated that a subset of users were this way as opposed to "this forum" then I'd probably agree with you, but as you stated it, I think it's inaccurate and poorly stated as "this forum" has plenty of people that agree with you and plenty of people that don't:

(12-08-2017 03:28 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  Because this forum has a distinct pro law enforcement slant when it comes to police involved shootings when it is a black man shot by a white officer-but they seem to go the other way when it is a Muslim immigrant officer shooting a white woman. Here we have a innocent white man being murdered by a white cop, lets see how it plays out. I have made my position known, fuck this trigger happy piece of shit with a badge-thoughts?

Aloha to you as well.

Post: #135

[Mod: Merged thread]





I dont know what the solutions or answer are here, but How does someone avoid this?

Cops are quick on the trigger, part anxiety on their part, part knowing that theres tons of people with guns in the population..

If it was someone like my dad & mom who are prone to anxiety in high pressure life threatening situations they'd get shot too.. too many changing instructions..

Everyone who thinks they could be LOGICAL and CLEAR HEADED and FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS PERFECTLY.. Think about all your friends/ relatives/ acquaintances.. and think.. how many of them would succumb to the pressure and "make a small mistake"...

Quote:Graydon - I watched closely and his SHORTS were LOOSE, the FORK of his LOOSE Shorts was not cralw conducive and were IMPEDING his CRAWL.. and this was after the point he was CRYING & WHIMPERING in FEAR and ANXIETY. Ever try doing YOGA in CARGO SHORTS? Not going to happen. His hand did not INTENTIONALLY go to his BELT, but INSTINCTUALLY which happens to MOST OF US when our SHORTS/ PANTS SLIP DOWN. Weirdly LOOSE CARGO SHORTS is why that instinctual hand move happened in a Fear Anxiety Panic state.

Ever walked up to a hot girl in a bar, and then fumble what you do and say instead of what you think you would so or say? That's FEAR & ANXIETY.

The constant changing of instructions & screaming & threat of being SHOT AT just messed him up. What if it was some Hypochondriac/ Asthmatic person, they'd even have trouble breathing and forget following instructions they'd just hyper ventilate.
And its not easy to keep ones legs crossed and get up from the floor.
The whole thing about cross his hands behind his waist was a biological mirroring of crossing his legs behind..

Ever played the game as a kid where you try to orient/ disorient your right/ left and hands legs in different CIRCULAR and LINER MOTIONS and the limbs do not respond with perfect control?

Anyone with anxiety or someone especially diagnosed with Anxiety/ Asthma etc/ Cardiac issues would have major trouble in "the above" scenario.
You think you are speaking perfect LOGIC & FACTS, but put into such a CHARGED ENVIRONMENT and then lets see how well your Logical Mind fares.. Its easy to judge.

Yes there are plenty of cases where there are Morons who REBEL against INSTRUCTIONS. But REBELING against instructions and being DISORIENTED under ANXIETY & PRESSURE can happen. People FUMBLE at SPELLING BEES and in EXAMS that they have studied for an ENTIRE YEAR. They know the matter and its just about writing some answers, but when the ANXIETY & PRESSURE to "perform" as per "such & such" goes high, people get DISORIENTED and FUMBLE.
Even TRAINED SOLDIERS get PTSD...

And part of the issue is that even COPS are under lot of MENTAL PRESSURE in such scenarios. And they need to be taught to be more CALMER & SHARPER.. But even they live ANXIETY FILLED LIVES. They cant afford to get EMOTIONALLY WOUND UP to lose their SENSES especially when they have higher responsibility here.

While some cops like this one may be have a G I JOE complex as on his gun was ETCHED "You are Fucked"


I am personally not for guns,
But I also see why americans want their right to bear arms to fight oppressive police if ever Govt takes over..

But such above scenarios make me cringe.. and wonder how to solve this complex landscape..

Post: #136

This is one of those dumb ass fuck scenarios where the person did just about everything he could to get himself shot and the actually shooting still feels unnecessary.

The argument is always that the police followed their training. However, when you watch the video, you can't help but realize that if the police had simple told him not to move at all and remain on the ground, they would have been able to just walk up and handcuff the guy.

But that "isn't what they are trained to do."

Post: #137

Fucking cops, amirite guys?

Still should've followed the instructions to a T.

Post: #138

Search 'all lives matter' on the forum and you will see this is a dupe. As a black man this wounded me deeply- he begged for his life......

Post: #139

(01-29-2018 01:28 AM)Il Bersagliere Wrote:  Fucking cops, amirite guys?

Still should've followed the instructions to a T.

Bad choice. On the assumption that you're never drunk, you can still find yourself in a position with two moron cops yelling conflicting instructions, with the inevitability that one will shoot you for doing the wrong thing.

The cops cannot shoot you if your hands are visible and you're doing nothing at all.

Remain perfectly still and wait for them to come to you. They might bring a beatdown but it's better than getting shot.

Post: #140

It's near impossible for a jury to convict a cop. Happens but very rare.
Everyday people subconsciously want to trust & believe officers... highly inclined to give them even the slightest benefit of the doubt in these cases...

Post: #141

(01-29-2018 01:37 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  Search 'all lives matter' on the forum and you will see this is a dupe. As a black man this wounded me deeply- he begged for his life......

I don't mean to sound flippant but what's the significance here?

Post: #142

The Young Turks is garbage journalism. However, in this case, they're right.

Post: #143

delete

Post: #144

As a white man with a black penis, I agree with Leonard.

I won't be crawling to anyone. I will lay on the ground with my arms and legs spread out and not move an inch.

Post: #145

As a transgender, transracial African American white womyn with a micropenis, I also agree with Leonard. Those instructions were retarded and basically set the guy up to fail. This story makes my blood boil.

Post: #146

As a white quasi-woman with Sino-racial tendencies, brown hair and a penis too small to satisfy any woman and masturbate with, I feel like I would have acquitted the cop. I would have hated myself for doing it, but the cops were in a position of power to murder anyone who they viewed as a potential thread.

Unless the system is changed (from a system when anyone who is not the police is a second class citizen), these events will keep happening.

Post: #147

Is it the case that telling a perp to crawl towards you is standard procedure? I somehow doubt it is. It seems criminally stupid and negligent. It's obvious to me the defendant was on a power trip and killed him in cold blood. The system needs some overhaul, otherwise citizens are always at risk of being gunned down by swatting.

Post: #148

I wrote something in a self-defence thread a while back about why the most important thing you can do to deal with home invasions is to strengthen the entry points of your house so that you have time to arm yourself, call the police and get your head straight.

Well I should obviously have added "if the ones doing the home invasion are the cops themselves then adding to the time it takes them to make entry gives you a chance to positively identify them and "assume the position" rather than realising they're cops as you walk down your stairs with a flashlight in one hand and a gun in the other.

Post: #149

(01-29-2018 05:31 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Well I should obviously have added "if the ones doing the home invasion are the cops themselves then adding to the time it takes them to make entry gives you a chance to positively identify them and "assume the position" rather than realising they're cops as you walk down your stairs with a flashlight in one hand and a gun in the other.

I love how guys who constantly fantasize about "defending their home" from an invaders can't help but give themselves away on the Internet.

(01-29-2018 05:31 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Honestly, it's amazing that cops can bust into any drug haven in under 30 minutes. I've got $80 of 2-by-4's and some bars on the windows says that I can prevent law enforcement from entering any home in under an hour unless they are using dynamite.

Heck, even building a tall structure 3 feet to the exterior of all doors would prevent a full swing of any battering ram.

And how about a simply twenty foot tunnel in the basement that let's you sneak out the back while the cops are embarrassing themselves at the front entrance?

Post: #150

(01-29-2018 07:06 AM)Suits Wrote:  And how about a simply twenty foot tunnel in the basement that let's you sneak out the back while the cops are embarrassing themselves at the front entrance?

You should be optimising your escape route.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm