Post: #26

(05-30-2012 07:40 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  Yeah commercial airplanes are ridiculously easy to fly. Pilots rarely have to even touch the controls. Altitude and Headings are input into a computer, automated flight control systems make sure the it remains where it supposed to be, and GPS has full control authority.

Do you fly for a living?

Are you a private pilot or a flight instructor?

Post: #27

(05-30-2012 03:23 PM)CrackerJack Wrote:  Are you a private pilot or a flight instructor?

Not a private pilot, nor a flight instructor. But I did stay at a holiday inn express last night

Post: #28

(09-13-2011 08:45 AM)chefedemaquina Wrote:  you have a better chance of getting killed driving down the interstate then flying in a commercial airliner.

Truth spoken. I've been saying it for years - the most dangerous part of your flight is the drive to the airport.

Post: #29

(05-30-2012 07:40 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  Yeah commercial airplanes are ridiculously easy to fly. Pilots rarely have to even touch the controls. Altitude and Headings are input into a computer, automated flight control systems make sure the it remains where it supposed to be, and GPS has full control authority.

That's what I've heard, too. I've been working for an ex-pilot/now-entrepreneur a few years back and he said the same thing. A guy at my current company has a private pilot license and he also said something similar. He says that it's actually way easier for him to fly a real plane than a flight simulator at the computer.

Come to think of it, I could fancy of learning how to fly once I have enough spare cash and time..

Post: #30

(05-31-2012 02:30 AM)muc Wrote:  

(05-30-2012 07:40 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  Yeah commercial airplanes are ridiculously easy to fly. Pilots rarely have to even touch the controls. Altitude and Headings are input into a computer, automated flight control systems make sure the it remains where it supposed to be, and GPS has full control authority.

That's what I've heard, too. I've been working for an ex-pilot/now-entrepreneur a few years back and he said the same thing. A guy at my current company has a private pilot license and he also said something similar. He says that it's actually way easier for him to fly a real plane than a flight simulator at the computer.

Come to think of it, I could fancy of learning how to fly once I have enough spare cash and time..

I've thought about taking some Cessna lessons at some point in the future. Now that would be one hell of a DHV. Taking a girl flying with you at the controls. Not that that's the reason I would want to learn, but it would be a great benefit.

Post: #31

When you have your private pilots license you can rent small airplanes from most flight schools or airports.

Little cesnas cost around $120 an hour (an hour of flight time, you can take it the whole day or sometimes multiple days but you only pay for the time you log on the engine).

$200 will get you about about a 45 minute flight each way and lunch.

Once you get up to altitude you can have the girl take the controls, and coach her a bit. A fun thing to do is to "teach" them how to takeoff and land. You coach them through the entire process as they are on the controls. However, you "ride along" on your set of controls and are actually doing the flying, she just thinks she is because she is touching the controls.

I think a PPL (private pilot license) will set you back about 7k these days. When you visit a flight school website dont believe the quoted price there. They list the price for the minimum hours required by the FAA, most student pilots take longer. You can cut down on that by studying hard and flying a lot of flight simulators, they actually do help. It should be 40 hours minimum, count on about 150-160 per hour for plane rental + instruction.

Its an investment for sure. I would recommend the younger cats look into flying for a career. Baby boomers are all about to retire, and theres a shortage of younger pilots because the pay has been shitty and the entry costs so high over the last decade or so. So now would be a good time to be looking at it as a viable career option.

Post: #32

(05-31-2012 03:50 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  When you have your private pilots license you can rent small airplanes from most flight schools or airports.

Little cesnas cost around $120 an hour (an hour of flight time, you can take it the whole day or sometimes multiple days but you only pay for the time you log on the engine).

$200 will get you about about a 45 minute flight each way and lunch.

Once you get up to altitude you can have the girl take the controls, and coach her a bit. A fun thing to do is to "teach" them how to takeoff and land. You coach them through the entire process as they are on the controls. However, you "ride along" on your set of controls and are actually doing the flying, she just thinks she is because she is touching the controls.

I think a PPL (private pilot license) will set you back about 7k these days. When you visit a flight school website dont believe the quoted price there. They list the price for the minimum hours required by the FAA, most student pilots take longer. You can cut down on that by studying hard and flying a lot of flight simulators, they actually do help. It should be 40 hours minimum, count on about 150-160 per hour for plane rental + instruction.

Its an investment for sure. I would recommend the younger cats look into flying for a career. Baby boomers are all about to retire, and theres a shortage of younger pilots because the pay has been shitty and the entry costs so high over the last decade or so. So now would be a good time to be looking at it as a viable career option.

I wanted to be a pilot when I was kid, but an eye injury when I was a kid put an end to that ambition. What type of pilots are most needed? Commercial? Cargo? Corporate? And what class of aircraft will be most in demand? If you're talking airline pilots, don't you usually have to go into the airforce to get there? I know there's commercial airline schools, but I hear they cost a grip. What about pilots for small twin engine turboprops?

Post: #33

thats a tough question. If I had a choice I would fly cargo, don't have to deal with shitty passengers. The top cargo operators (UPS for example) are hard as hell to get into, you pretty much need to know someone.

No you dont need military service to get in with the major airlines, although it helps a lot.

And there will always be a demand smaller twin engine turbos in the form of flight instruction, charter services, or small regional airlines.

The simplified process:

1.Get PPL
2. Get Instrument rating (allowing you to operate in and near clouds)
3. Get Commercial Pilot License (allowing to work for hire)
4. Get Commerical flight instructor and commercial flight instructor instruments (allows you to teach)
5. Work at a flight school to build hours (500 hours or so for smaller regionals)
6. Work at regional airlines getting shit pay delivering pizza on your time off while building hours (about 3000 hours)
7. Work at a major airline for some-what shitty pay and get the shit routes for a couples years.
8. Become a captain and watch the pay increase and your choice of routes increase as your seniority increases

Its one of the those things where it pays off in the end. Im researching foreign airlines, can you imagine banking 100k while living in SE Asia?

Post: #34

Or it could be overweight.

The flight I took yesterday had to be delayed because it was 2000 pounds overweight, and the pilot told us that with the head wind coming at them directly after takeoff, it would have been difficult to climb. While they were emptying the plane, I guess they noticed something wrong with one of the landing brake things and had to replace it. That took more time. All in all we didn't end up getting out of the airport until 3 hours later. Can you imagine if they hadn't caught that we tried to takeoff against the wind 2000lbs overweight? Then tried to brake during landing and it didn't work? There are so many different factors and things that could bring a bird down or kill you on takeoff/landing. And like I said, it might be the safest way to travel, but it's the surest way to die. Once something goes wrong you're fucked. There is no soft landing from 33,000 feet, from a stall, etc. The Air France flight that went down in 2009 happened because the junior pilots didn't know how to properly get the plane out of a stall, didn't know that the computer still reads "STALL" even when the plane is gaining airspeed simply as a design mechinism and that you're actually not stalling, couldn't see that because it was pitch black over the Atlantic Ocean, some of their altimeter equipment froze, and as a result they went down. No survivors (of course). I mean how many good pilots out there can correct a situation like that? And will they be sleeping at the time, as was the case with the senior pilot on Air France?

I fucking hate flying. They need to give us a way out in the case of an emergency. I'll take my chances with a parachute. Something. Anything. Not dying in some cramped space like a rat or something.

Post: #35

(05-31-2012 04:34 PM)americanInEurope Wrote:  Or it could be overweight.

The flight I took yesterday had to be delayed because it was 2000 pounds overweight, and the pilot told us that with the head wind coming at them directly after takeoff, it would have been difficult to climb. While they were emptying the plane, I guess they noticed something wrong with one of the landing brake things and had to replace it. That took more time. All in all we didn't end up getting out of the airport until 3 hours later. Can you imagine if they hadn't caught that we tried to takeoff against the wind 2000lbs overweight? Then tried to brake during landing and it didn't work?

your pilot lied to you, simple as that.

Headwinds are your friend. Tailwinds are your enemy. Overweight or not. Think about how an airfoil produces lift and you will understand what I am talking about.

you ever seen a plane hover? ever seen a plane fly backwards? Ive seen both, due to headwinds. I know a pilot that spent half an hour taking off against a headwind, throttling back and letting the wind carry him backwards over the runway, then throttling up and landing, just to do it all over again.

regardless this thread has been hijacked. The OP was asking about how to overcome fear of flying. Enough has been said to justify that. Your more likely to die on your way to the airport.

Post: #36

(05-31-2012 04:34 PM)americanInEurope Wrote:  Or it could be overweight.

The flight I took yesterday had to be delayed because it was 2000 pounds overweight, and the pilot told us that with the head wind coming at them directly after takeoff, it would have been difficult to climb. While they were emptying the plane, I guess they noticed something wrong with one of the landing brake things and had to replace it. That took more time. All in all we didn't end up getting out of the airport until 3 hours later. Can you imagine if they hadn't caught that we tried to takeoff against the wind 2000lbs overweight? Then tried to brake during landing and it didn't work? There are so many different factors and things that could bring a bird down or kill you on takeoff/landing. And like I said, it might be the safest way to travel, but it's the surest way to die. Once something goes wrong you're fucked. There is no soft landing from 33,000 feet, from a stall, etc. The Air France flight that went down in 2009 happened because the junior pilots didn't know how to properly get the plane out of a stall, didn't know that the computer still reads "STALL" even when the plane is gaining airspeed simply as a design mechinism and that you're actually not stalling, couldn't see that because it was pitch black over the Atlantic Ocean, some of their altimeter equipment froze, and as a result they went down. No survivors (of course). I mean how many good pilots out there can correct a situation like that? And will they be sleeping at the time, as was the case with the senior pilot on Air France?

I fucking hate flying. They need to give us a way out in the case of an emergency. I'll take my chances with a parachute. Something. Anything. Not dying in some cramped space like a rat or something.

That's how I feel. There are so many small moving parts and electronic components on a modern aircraft that must all be functioning properly. If even one little thing goes wrong, you could be corkscrewing 5 miles to your death. That Air France Concorde that crashed in the 90s went down because it ran over a little strip of metal that blew out the tire on takeoff which then sent shrapnel flying into the engine which then caused a huge fire and a crash. An Alaska Airlines crashed off the coast of SoCal maybe a decade ago because someone failed to properly lubricate a jackscrew on the elevator. Next thing you know they're plunging into the Pacific. Shit is crazy man. They say nothing but a spark in the wiring brought down TWA800. Bird flies into the engine, down you go.

I know statistically it's safe, but it's crazy how even the most minute thing can bring down an airliner. That's why I'm never really relaxed when flying. No better feeling than that thump of the wheels on touchdown followed by the roar of the thrust reversers.

Post: #37

You have to ask yourself if it's worth refraining from living the life you want and staying in your own country (or the neighboring ones accessible by train/bus) just to avoid the small risk of flying. It's a slippery slope, once you decide to stop flying why shouldn't you also never travel by car, train, boat, bus etc? Why should you cross the street? Why should you even go out of the house, you might get killed or sick etc.

We're all going to die some day. Maybe it's better to do it while living the life we want rather than dying of old age regretting not doing the things we wanted to do.

Post: #38

Would it be possible to pack a parachute to carry on? Imagine the plane going down while you strap up and hop out.

Post: #39

(06-01-2012 04:03 AM)houston Wrote:  Would it be possible to pack a parachute to carry on? Imagine the plane going down while you strap up and hop out.

No.

First off you wouldn't be able to open the door because of the pressure differential. It's effectively sealed in place. Secondly even if you did manage to get it open, you wouldn't last long once you jumped out. At 35,000 it's about 70 degrees below zero and there's very little oxygen to speak of and you're be getting hit with a 600mph wind in your face. You'd be knocked out before you could even pull the cord. So you'd basically be plunging to your death anyway. Better to stay in your seat and take the chance that the pilot figures something out.

Jumping out might work at a much lower altitude and speed though. Like on final approach. But at cruising speed/altitude...forget about it.

Post: #40

The chances of a plane accident are extremely low.

If you're going to worry about your plane crashing, you might as well abstain from sex, alcohol, and walking out of your house because all those involve dangers too(however small they may be).

Post: #41

(06-01-2012 12:28 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(05-31-2012 04:34 PM)americanInEurope Wrote:  Or it could be overweight.

The flight I took yesterday had to be delayed because it was 2000 pounds overweight, and the pilot told us that with the head wind coming at them directly after takeoff, it would have been difficult to climb. While they were emptying the plane, I guess they noticed something wrong with one of the landing brake things and had to replace it. That took more time. All in all we didn't end up getting out of the airport until 3 hours later. Can you imagine if they hadn't caught that we tried to takeoff against the wind 2000lbs overweight? Then tried to brake during landing and it didn't work? There are so many different factors and things that could bring a bird down or kill you on takeoff/landing. And like I said, it might be the safest way to travel, but it's the surest way to die. Once something goes wrong you're fucked. There is no soft landing from 33,000 feet, from a stall, etc. The Air France flight that went down in 2009 happened because the junior pilots didn't know how to properly get the plane out of a stall, didn't know that the computer still reads "STALL" even when the plane is gaining airspeed simply as a design mechinism and that you're actually not stalling, couldn't see that because it was pitch black over the Atlantic Ocean, some of their altimeter equipment froze, and as a result they went down. No survivors (of course). I mean how many good pilots out there can correct a situation like that? And will they be sleeping at the time, as was the case with the senior pilot on Air France?

I fucking hate flying. They need to give us a way out in the case of an emergency. I'll take my chances with a parachute. Something. Anything. Not dying in some cramped space like a rat or something.

That's how I feel. There are so many small moving parts and electronic components on a modern aircraft that must all be functioning properly. If even one little thing goes wrong, you could be corkscrewing 5 miles to your death. That Air France Concorde that crashed in the 90s went down because it ran over a little strip of metal that blew out the tire on takeoff which then sent shrapnel flying into the engine which then caused a huge fire and a crash. An Alaska Airlines crashed off the coast of SoCal maybe a decade ago because someone failed to properly lubricate a jackscrew on the elevator. Next thing you know they're plunging into the Pacific. Shit is crazy man. They say nothing but a spark in the wiring brought down TWA800. Bird flies into the engine, down you go.

I know statistically it's safe, but it's crazy how even the most minute thing can bring down an airliner. That's why I'm never really relaxed when flying. No better feeling than that thump of the wheels on touchdown followed by the roar of the thrust reversers.

I'm talking about the Air France flight that went down coming from Brasil in 2009. The one where it took them like 8 months to find the black box because it was so deep underwater. I watched a documentary about that recently. They stalled all the way to their deaths. Right now I also happen to be watching a docu about the Air Arrow flight 1285 that killed 248 guys from the 101st Airborne in 1985. Also due to a stall after takeoff. They crashed and burned right outside the airport. The main report said it was because of ice on the wings, but other minority reports claim it was also due to the plane being 1200lbs overweight. They tried to takeoff against the wind, 1200lbs overweight, exactly the same thing we would have done in Atlanta had the pilot not been astute to the situation. We were actually 2000lbs overweight. I know @AntiTrace thinks it's ok for the plane, a huge 767 (the kind that does flights from the USA to Germany, not a little Cessna) to be overweight when it's taking off and trying to pick up airspeed against the wind, but I'm glad the pilot didn't think so.

I'm not so much afraid of a midair collision than I am of stalling and not being able to get out of it. That's why takeoff and landing are the most stressful times for me.

Post: #42

(06-01-2012 03:54 PM)torontokid Wrote:  The chances of a plane accident are extremely low.

If you're going to worry about your plane crashing, you might as well abstain from sex, alcohol, and walking out of your house because all those involve dangers too(however small they may be).

I know what you mean bro, but what I keep bringing up to people like you who like to point out that you can die from anything, I think it's possible to avoid death in almost all those other circumstances you've mentioned. Like I said before, I've been in 2 pretty bad car crashes in my life. One of them I had to go to hospital for, the other one I walked away from with just a lump on my dome. Statistically speaking, when shit goes tits up in a plane, the chances of you surviving are a LOT worse than surviving something else like a liver transplant or getting hit by a bus. You have some sort of control over the severity of your injuries (being able to move out of the way, stop drinking for a few years, etc). You don't have that option on a plane. That's where my fear comes from. I have no control over the severity of my being injured. I just sit there, in the tin can, looking out the window as the plane plummets to the ground, waiting to die. That bothers me.

Post: #43

(06-01-2012 04:03 AM)houston Wrote:  Would it be possible to pack a parachute to carry on? Imagine the plane going down while you strap up and hop out.

I was just thinking, I wonder how feasible it would be to have a giant parachute stored in the tail that would deploy if the plane was falling out of control. Something that might at least slow speed enough to allow for some survivors.

I know it sounds crazy but think about, when the space shuttle was around, the two rocket boosters had giant parachutes in them that would deploy on their freefall back to earth so that the boosters could be salvaged and reused again. And the old Apollo space capsules as well as the craft we send to Mars also had big parachutes used to break their fall and ensure the survivability of their payload.

I'm wondering if anything like that is possible for regular aircraft that are falling out of control.

Post: #44

Oddly enough, I went to college with 3 guys that already had pilots licenses in their late teens. They all used to occasionally fly up to school. Also, the school wasn't far from an airport in upstate NY, so one of the guys used to buzz the campus. Only one of them went on to fly for a living. I don't know about his family, but they probably had some money. Of the other two guys, one of them's dad owned a construction company, and the other kid also came from some money (his dad was a doctor, and along with other members of the extended family they shared the costs for the plane).

I've always been a comfortable passenger. I love getting on a plane and going somewhere. Even if the flight is a little rough, I'm cool. And on longer flights, I'm sleeping most of the trip anyway. I only have one friend that really doesn't like flying, and as luck would have it, she has to fly a lot for her job...HA HA! She sucks it up to fly for vacations also - she doesn't let it stop her. You shouldn't either.

Post: #45

Haha check this out

Post: #46

Im taking a 17 hour flight tomorrow.... Boooooooooooooooo

Post: #47

If you can't avoid flying, get your doctor to prescribe you some Valium.

Post: #48

If you want to develop a fear of flying, read about France Flight 447:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technolo...47-6611877

Its cockpit and analysis. Its pretty incredible that the plane basically crashed because one pilot was acting incredibly retarded. At one point I was smh. I'm not a pilot, but most people on this forum being reasonably intelligent will not be able to believe this.

Post: #49

(06-07-2012 12:02 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  If you want to develop a fear of flying, read about France Flight 447:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technolo...47-6611877

Its cockpit and analysis. Its pretty incredible that the plane basically crashed because one pilot was acting incredibly retarded. At one point I was smh. I'm not a pilot, but most people on this forum being reasonably intelligent will not be able to believe this.

That was a really good article. The comments below it from other pilots and trainers are enlightening too. That last few minutes must have been one hell of a terrifying ride for the passengers. What I don't understand is why the captain would get up to take a nap right before they entered the most dangerous part of the flight. Makes no sense to me.

Post: #50

Another thing you can do is fly when you are most tired. Take early morning flights, but stay up all night before. Or fly late at night when you'd naturally sleep anyway. I always do this, not because I'm afraid of flying, but because flying can be physically uncomfortable, and/or boring depending on how long the flight is. I want to be asleep through most of it.