Post: #51

(11-05-2017 01:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Agastya:

Quote:Before the civil rights period (and for a little bit after) blacks enjoyed better family structures, but they were also slaughtered on the basis of their race, and utterly precluded from doing anything other than menial work. The "making a living" that Samseau talks about involved working as someone's sharecropper, being denied the right to vote, and living in fear of getting lynched or tortured if you looked at a white woman the wrong way.

"slaughtered" How about providing some numbers instead of imaging things? I see Blacks getting slaughtered today, no joke, actual war zones levels of homicide, nothing like that has ever existed in America's past. Nothing even came remotely close.

Well, let's see...

The NAACP reports that 3,446 black people were lynched between 1882 and 1962. They acknowledge that over a thousand white people were also lynched during this period, and that many states lynched far more whites than they did blacks.

Proof is here: http://www.naacp.org/history-of-lynchings/

Now, one could use this factoid to claim that lynching wasn't a serious problem in society -- after all, 3,446 black people lynched over an eighty-year period equals only 43 black people lynched per year, which is significantly less than the number of homicides in Chicago alone.

762 people were killed in Chicago in 2016, 75% of whom are black. So it is legitimate to say that the death toll from lynching was significantly less than the death toll from gang violence in the states -- with one city's crime statistics dwarfing the lynching statistics of the entire U.S on a yearly basis.

The difference is, however, that this violence is largely relegated to the ghetto, and doesn't affect black people at every level of society. In 2017, a black person can expect to meet a violent end if he lives in the worst ghettos of the most violent cities in the country and engages in gang activity.

Before the civil rights movement, however, a black person could expect to meet a violent end (or at least experience violence) if they did the following:

- Talked to a white woman and triggered her (sound familiar?), creating cases like the torture and murder of Emmett Till. This was a kid who basically got killed for daygaming a white woman in the South.

-- Fucked a white woman and was falsely accused of rape after she got regrets (the cause of one third of all black lynchings in the south)

-- Attained any economic prosperity whatsoever, which would lead to jealous whites burning down their downtown areas and running them out of town (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot). This, by the way, led to the complete destruction of one of the most prosperous and tightly-knit black communities in the country.

-- Tried to attend predominantly white institutions, where, no matter how qualified they were, they could expect to receive a significant level of racial animosity at the very least, and abject violence at the worst.

-- Tried to travel the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_...reen_Book_) This was a book of safety guidelines written for the few middle class blacks who owned cars and wanted to travel the country. It detailed exactly which places they should avoid -- places where whites would refuse them service, refuse them car repairs, or even assault them for showing their faces after sunset.

So while modern gang violence probably kills more blacks than white supremacists did in terms of absolute numbers, the climate for blacks pre-Civil Rights was significantly worse. Sure, they may have had better family structures back then, but that meant jack shit in terms of their actual prosperity or economic growth. I will agree that their culture was overall stronger prior to the Civil Rights movement, their living conditions were undeniably worse.

(11-05-2017 01:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  If we could somehow bring some Blacks out of the past from 1890 and into this modern world where they could watch their great-granddaughters get banged out by dozens of men and father 5 kids from 4 different fathers, I'd be willing to bet that those Blacks would choose to go back to 1890.

Poverty and promiscuity are bad, but at least they can be surmounted. There ARE blacks who have made it to the middle class and beyond, millions of them in fact. This is a direct result of the Civil Rights movement. Prior to that, black intellectuals and entertainers were a tiny minority, and popular black athletes were basically unheard of, let alone black politicians.

Legitimate institutional racism, segregation, and racist terror may not have destroyed the black family structure, but they crippled it in terms of economic potential and actual performance. This is a pretty obvious point, but being completely barred from anything but menial work made it impossible for most blacks to get anywhere pre-Civil Rights. I doubt any of the family oriented-blacks from the 1890's would have wanted to see their descendant become an obese single mother of 8 children, but they also would be happy she doesn't run the risk of this:

:

or this:

Quote:Turner was still alive when a member of the mob split her abdomen open with a knife and her unborn child fell on the ground. The baby was was stomped and crushed as it fell to the ground. Turner’s body was riddled with hundreds of bullets.

Which happened after a black woman was accused of killing an abusive plantation owner.

Conditions in the inner city are bad, but at least blacks there have the basic ability to get out, the system isn't completely stacked against them. Blacks prior to the civil rights era did not have that luxury.

Post: #52

(11-05-2017 02:17 AM)fenetre Wrote:  It’s the same thing as in my last post. People are more concerned with social ostracism (i.e. loss of popularity) than getting at the truth.

And I get that. It’s a real, genuine fear. But it should have no place in a so-called red-pill forum.

I think I’m going to unplug from the forum for a while. Feeling jaded of late. And my posts increasingly reflect a sense of anger rather than anything constructive. It’s a cool day for once here in Bangkok.

For what it's worth, I don't think that most members of the forum are necessarily coming at these arguments from an emotional standpoint. I made those arguments in the Marc Faber thread because history backed them up, and I'm sure Samseau is making these arguments because they are what he genuinely believes. To his point, some of his arguments are not incorrect, which I tried to acknowledge in my last post.

No one is making these points out of a fear of social ostracism. This is an anonymous forum. I think when most people here argue, they are doing so to argue for the truth as they best see it.

The ancestors of any of our black members would have been subject to an incredibly oppressive system, and that is just historical fact. Maybe they do or don't agree with me. But an apartheid system is an apartheid system, whether it occurred in America, South Africa, Israel, or India.

And to both you and Leonard, I think it was the FBI -- the FBI launched initiatives like COINTELPRO which targeted the Black Panthers and other Civil Rights leaders.

I recommend you take a break from this place if you feel like it's stressing you out. I can tell that it is based on your post.

Post: #53

^^Great comment with which I agree completely.

(11-05-2017 01:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  If we could somehow bring some Blacks out of the past from 1890 and into this modern world where they could watch their great-granddaughters get banged out by dozens of men and father 5 kids from 4 different fathers, I'd be willing to bet that those Blacks would choose to go back to 1890.

I have a ton of respect for Samseau's contribution to this forum...but as a black man I can definitely say without hesitation that I prefer to live in our current time as black man even with all our problems as black people (self-inflicted and otherwise) and that I very strongly suspect my predecessors would concur.

Post: #54

(11-04-2017 06:35 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 02:12 PM)Fisto Wrote:  All men are flawed and hypocrites.

Dr. King was, I believe, a good man who struggled with his desires just like anyone else would be in his position.

Dr. King said a lot of very valuable and true things and I'll add that if blacks applied his teachings accurately they wouldn't be running around today claiming victim status in masse while also exercising some of the most hateful and virulent racism the country has seen since they were emancipated.

I also used to think MLK was a conservative's friend. Sadly I was mistaken.

"Judge a man by the content of his character," and yet MLK advocated for affirmative action and handouts. MLK wanted the gibs and was the man who lead the Black caucus onto the Dem welfare plantation.

That's why I say MLK was a false prophet. Man of God turns out to be a huge whoremonger who turns most of his race into broken degenerates. Black family destroyed, rampant drugs and crime.

Atlanta Man:

Quote:I can vote, live where I want, have equal access to courts, and bang white chicks with no fear of legal repercussions. Life is not perfect, but I have seen tangible benefits from the civil rights act.

Everything you've listed are empty material gains. What good is it to gain the world but lose one's soul? Most Blacks forfeited their soul for stuff.

These things are great if you're an alpha. If you're part of the 80% of Blacks with a broken family, then these things mean nothing compared to having a loving community.

If Black women were so broken, the overwhelming majority of Black man would never give a shit about banging White chicks. A feminine Black girl is sweet and gentle. Why would the men need to go elsewhere?

And you know what the worst part is? Everything the Blacks have today is predicated upon Whites giving it to them. If America were to fall into Civil War or Bankruptcy, the Blacks would be looking at mass starvation and genocide. They have no backup plan.

Blacks have their house built on sand, and not on the rock of God.

Quote: King's greatest legacy was preventing violence as a means of change, he was able to look politicians in the eye and say "it is my way or deal with the black militants."

I agree the nonviolence was admirable. But the man who lead this nonviolence movement ended up saddling them with vices almost as bad.

Although in King's defense, the degeneracy may have come onto the Black community regardless of whatever King himself did. The 60's were a rotten time and Whites degenerated immensely as well, but nowhere near the same levels as Blacks did.

MLK's true legacy was to start the Black grievance industry, which has been an albatross around the Black family's neck for decades. Rather than improving themselves they just attach themselves to the White welfare tit. It leaves them more and more vulnerable with every generation.

Quote:Also, he got laid-If you are looking for a man who lived as he spoke to the letter try Malcolm X.

Malcolm X had integrity, but his ideas of violent resistance could have never succeeded. He was also a false prophet, worse than MLK. Most, if not all, of the leaders of the 60's were horrible sinners, and MLK was the least bad of a terrible lot. So I guess that's the best assessment I can think of.

You're rambling like an idiot, there is no god

Post: #55

(11-05-2017 03:10 AM)Buck Wild Wrote:  ^^Great comment with which I agree completely.

(11-05-2017 01:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  If we could somehow bring some Blacks out of the past from 1890 and into this modern world where they could watch their great-granddaughters get banged out by dozens of men and father 5 kids from 4 different fathers, I'd be willing to bet that those Blacks would choose to go back to 1890.

I have a ton of respect for Samseau's contribution to this forum...but as a black man I can definitely say without hesitation that I prefer to live in our current time as black man even with all our problems as black people (self-inflicted and otherwise) and that I very strongly suspect my predecessors would concur.

Your response kind of embodies the whole point he was making. Not the fact that they would go back to being willing to tolerate discrimination. But rather the reason why black communities have made no progress in wake of the civil rights movement is because collectively and maybe culturally they don't value a traditional nuclear family and a strong community as much as white ones do. The individualistic attitude toward the community is why they fall into disrepair and are rife with violence, drugs, gangs, single parents, etc. Point is, if black people collectively took ownership and put intact families and development of children above all else, conditions would improve quite significantly, and in a generation or two the quality of the people living in these communities would be far higher. I expect you would see the standard of living go up and be on par with most white communities.

I don't know if you have ever lived in a predominantly white community, but the entire lives of the parents outside of work revolve around the children's schooling, activities, home life, and development. The parents literally don't live for themselves at all. They sacrifice all of their own needs, wants, and free time for their kids. This is pretty much across the board. And in families where the parents were absent, the kids got into drugs, were poor students, or built up a criminal record. Really no different than you'd see with young black men who grew up with no family support system right? It's just in the white community its not as common, which prevents it from dragging down the standard of living significantly like you'd see in black communities.

Post: #56

After learning that Nelson Mandela was a lying scumbag, racist and hypocrite who ruined South Africa instead of the angel he is portrayed as I've had suspicions regarding just about any one person who the media tries to sell as completely moral or completely amoral. The reality tends to typically fall somewhere in the middle.

I agree with Samseau on Black America and I'm black.

Bunch of children in this thread talking about the right to bang white girls and being able to piss in the same urinal. How is that even remotely useful metric for quality of life? Black America is broken and if segregation means stronger black families, non-abrasive black women, economic opportunities and spiritual fitness -then why not?

Post: #57

(11-05-2017 03:32 AM)Grizwald1400 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 06:35 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 02:12 PM)Fisto Wrote:  All men are flawed and hypocrites.

Dr. King was, I believe, a good man who struggled with his desires just like anyone else would be in his position.

Dr. King said a lot of very valuable and true things and I'll add that if blacks applied his teachings accurately they wouldn't be running around today claiming victim status in masse while also exercising some of the most hateful and virulent racism the country has seen since they were emancipated.

I also used to think MLK was a conservative's friend. Sadly I was mistaken.

"Judge a man by the content of his character," and yet MLK advocated for affirmative action and handouts. MLK wanted the gibs and was the man who lead the Black caucus onto the Dem welfare plantation.

That's why I say MLK was a false prophet. Man of God turns out to be a huge whoremonger who turns most of his race into broken degenerates. Black family destroyed, rampant drugs and crime.

Atlanta Man:

Quote:I can vote, live where I want, have equal access to courts, and bang white chicks with no fear of legal repercussions. Life is not perfect, but I have seen tangible benefits from the civil rights act.

Everything you've listed are empty material gains. What good is it to gain the world but lose one's soul? Most Blacks forfeited their soul for stuff.

These things are great if you're an alpha. If you're part of the 80% of Blacks with a broken family, then these things mean nothing compared to having a loving community.

If Black women were so broken, the overwhelming majority of Black man would never give a shit about banging White chicks. A feminine Black girl is sweet and gentle. Why would the men need to go elsewhere?

And you know what the worst part is? Everything the Blacks have today is predicated upon Whites giving it to them. If America were to fall into Civil War or Bankruptcy, the Blacks would be looking at mass starvation and genocide. They have no backup plan.

Blacks have their house built on sand, and not on the rock of God.

Quote: King's greatest legacy was preventing violence as a means of change, he was able to look politicians in the eye and say "it is my way or deal with the black militants."

I agree the nonviolence was admirable. But the man who lead this nonviolence movement ended up saddling them with vices almost as bad.

Although in King's defense, the degeneracy may have come onto the Black community regardless of whatever King himself did. The 60's were a rotten time and Whites degenerated immensely as well, but nowhere near the same levels as Blacks did.

MLK's true legacy was to start the Black grievance industry, which has been an albatross around the Black family's neck for decades. Rather than improving themselves they just attach themselves to the White welfare tit. It leaves them more and more vulnerable with every generation.

Quote:Also, he got laid-If you are looking for a man who lived as he spoke to the letter try Malcolm X.

Malcolm X had integrity, but his ideas of violent resistance could have never succeeded. He was also a false prophet, worse than MLK. Most, if not all, of the leaders of the 60's were horrible sinners, and MLK was the least bad of a terrible lot. So I guess that's the best assessment I can think of.

You're rambling like an idiot, there is no god

Wait a minute Grizwald. The person that you are referring to is a well respected member on this forum while you come in here with a zero rep. You need to think about your words before you post.

Post: #58

(11-04-2017 12:19 PM)Samseau Wrote:  .......
I've always heard rumors about MLK being a major hypocrite and devient, but I never had any proof to support such accusations. These FBI files are extremely damaging to the man's reputation. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the FBI's allegations are true, in fact, there is no real reason to doubt them considering MLK's early life had plenty of girlfriends. Dude was a player, and once he hit max fame the idea he indulged in all kinds of pussy does not seem unrealistic in the slightest.

Kinda hard to take any of his sermons seriously ever again, though. False prophet recognized.

If true, then MLK is no different than the buck dancing ministers of today like the late Eddie Long, Creflo "I need a private jet" Dollar or Joel Osteen. An honest Pastor once said that the truth doesn't pay well. The real genuine men of God that I know are living happy middle class lifestyles. One drives a Kia and the other one had a Hyundai. Anytime I see a Pastor that made a fortune from the church, it sends up a red flag.

I am not doubting that MLK was a horrible person behind closed doors but we have to consider the source. The FBI has a long history of telling lies and covering up the truth when it fits their narrative. If MLK was who they say he was, then I agree that it changes the way that he should be looked at.

Post: #59

As a black man , I'd say that I'm siding with Samseau on this , black people wanna act like whites nowadays when we not even there yet , shit like black lives matter , why black lives matter when white cops kill us and not when we killing ourselves for stupid shit , these people living the gangster that we idolize , negroes don't even speak English properly anymore , black people hate black people more than anyone else , fucking white women don't do you any good , voting for politician when you left out at the end of the day anyways .
If you hate yourself , how do you expect others to love you ??
Black people have to grow up , love themselves before expecting anyone else respect.
We celebrate MLK today , but how exactly was he impactful , I didn't know having sex with white women showed how evolved we have become .
Hahaha of all the things we can show our improvement with pussy

Post: #60

Unnatural sex acts = anal sex.

Post: #61

@ Razor Beast

Saying I'd rather be alive in 2017 as opposed to 1890 as a black man is not proof that "collectively and maybe culturally they don't value a traditional nuclear family and a strong community as much as white [people] do".

The point is that black people's problems in 2017 can--and I believe will--be overcome by us eventually. Black people's problems in 1890 could not be overcome by us because the deck was entirely stacked against us.

But I'm guessing you probably already understand this--I think you just got a little carried away with your post. Perhaps you typed a reply in advance of really digesting what I had said?

This is, without question, the best time to be alive as a black American male. My grandparents definitely thought so---and they absolutely valued the nuclear family (lifelong marriages until death parted them) and their grandparents were slaves in this country.

Just so you know.

Post: #62

Samseau,

Thank you for this terrible, awful, no good thread. It's encouraging to see so many RVF men use logic and reason to destroy your ideas in a respectful manner.

I can't believe we're actually discussing whether or not the Civil Rights movement was a good thing just because one of its icon didn't fully live up to what he preached. As a black man, fuck if I'd ever live in pre-Civil Rights Act America. Just because I want our families and communities to be stronger doesn't mean I want to revert back to the past exactly as it was: there were a lot of bad old days. It would've been a lot harder to achieve the educational, professional, and financial success that I've reached if not for the CRM. Both King and X will always have my appreciation for their fight, even if I wish both had done things differently.

Quote:An America without the right to succeed or fail on your own merits is no America at all.

Quote of the thread right there.

Post: #63

I can't believe there's a three page thread discussing the merits of civil fucking rights. Amazing.

Post: #64

(11-05-2017 10:46 AM)Huey Wrote:  I can't believe there's a three page thread discussing the merits of civil fucking rights. Amazing.

This is almost as ridiculous as that Repeal the 13th amendment thread. Really shows how much the forums focus has dramatically shifted...

Post: #65

(11-05-2017 10:55 AM)Prince Machiavelli Wrote:  

(11-05-2017 10:46 AM)Huey Wrote:  I can't believe there's a three page thread discussing the merits of civil fucking rights. Amazing.

This is almost as ridiculous as that Repeal the 13th amendment thread. Really shows how much the forums focus has dramatically shifted...

Bullshit like this thread's OP is why Excelsior and others bailed. It's why so many black people on this forum only post in the Moma and Rudeboy thread. And it's why the Manosphere/Alt-Right/Whatever-the-fuck-it's-being-categorized-as-today will never truly take off.

Post: #66

I try to avoid OP's postings. He has a way of ruining fun/silly threads with his bullshit. But this thread just seals it for me... he's an ass clown.

Post: #67

It's a beautiful crisp autumn afternoon.

You could go out and play some football in the park.

Or do a colored pencil sketch of the evanescent colors of fall leaves.

Or curl up with your girl and some Irish coffee in front of a fire.

Or discredit Martin Luther King.

Post: #68

All you "black"(I doubt you really are black) posters who want to return to segregation are out of your goddamn mind-my mother and father lived through segregation and marched to end it. My parents had to endure that shit and fought to get a chance for me not to have to deal with that oppression.

For all you "black" posters who think black America is worse off, go talk to your grandparents and see how they feel about now verses then. If you do not like black neighborhoods-then fucking move to a white neighborhood it is legal to do so now,try that shit in 1958. Don't like your economic situation? Take your black ass to school, major in STEM and change your circumstance-you no longer have to travel to black only universities, go to the majority white school in your city-it is legal now. Black chicks giving you shit for "acting white" and will not fuck you? White women will fuck the shit out of you, have at them-no more lynch mobs, it is even legal to marry them.

Any "black" poster here who thinks segregation was a good thing is likely a troll and unworthy of having their opinion considered seriously. I have rights my Grandfather could not fathom, his grandfather was a slave-born into bondage. With my rights come responsibilities, and I shoulder those responsibilities as well as I can manage-sometimes I slip, fail and disappoint myself-but I get up and try to give this world more positives than negatives. Most men are like this , and MLK was likely like this-If you want to condemn him , go for it-but ask yourself what have you done with your short time on this planet? Probably not as much as MLK, probably did not get as much ass as he did either.

Post: #69

Saying that MLK's entire legacy is bullshit because he liked to bang hookers in the ass is a bit like saying don't use the autobahn because Hitler built it.

Post: #70

(11-05-2017 12:22 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  It's a beautiful crisp autumn afternoon.

You could go out and play some football in the park.

Or do a colored pencil sketch of the evanescent colors of fall leaves.

Or curl up with your girl and some Irish coffee in front of a fire.

Or discredit Martin Luther King.

Post: #71

MLK family sued the government and won.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/mlktrial.asp

https://www.globalresearch.ca/court-deci...on/5320024

Post: #72

OP shouldn't read believe everything he reads.

How the government lies to us?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVnuqmjL4A4

Post: #73

OP trying to discredit MLK

Post: #74

(11-05-2017 12:27 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  All you "black"(I doubt you really are black) posters who want to return to segregation are out of your goddamn mind-my mother and father lived through segregation and marched to end it. My parents had to endure that shit and fought to get a chance for me not to have to deal with that oppression.

snip

Any "black" poster here who thinks segregation was a good thing is likely a troll and unworthy of having their opinion considered seriously. I have rights my Grandfather could not fathom, his grandfather was a slave-born into bondage. With my rights come responsibilities, and I shoulder those responsibilities as well as I can manage-sometimes I slip, fail and disappoint myself-but I get up and try to give this world more positives than negatives. Most men are like this , and MLK was likely like this-If you want to condemn him , go for it-but ask yourself what have you done with your short time on this planet? Probably not as much as MLK, probably did not get as much ass as he did either.

Can't believe some had to actually type-out this very obvious point. Civil right gave Black self-determination. Some Blacks made good choices, some didn't. But at least they have agency and can change their life trajectory if they choose to.

(Samseau if at any point I misinterpreted you, please correct me and clarify):

Samseau's major points in this thread appear to be

1): MLK was married preacher, yet he had affairs. This discredits all this sermons and non-religious speeches and activities. Anything influenced by his speeches and other actives is therefore wrong as well.

2) Blacks need to choose strong, nuclear families or a civil rights and equal protection under the law because they can't have both simultaneously.

The Civil Right's movement didn't guarantee that every Black man will be a success but removed de jure obstacles that precluded earlier generation of Blacks from living, working, and doing whatever they wanted however they wanted.

How much social mobility and economic opportunity did Blacks, specifically Black men, have in pre-1960? I imagine it's hard to provide for that loving family when:

1) Bank won't mortgage loans regardless of credit history,
2) employers won't hire regardless of a work experience
3) The government gives out benefits only to Whites that helped them to build generational wealth (G.I. bill, homesteading laws).
4) (While it didn't always happen): A white person could do bodily harm to you or kill you with little cause/provocation and there you have little legal recourse (Black Wall Street, Emmit Till, Solomon Northrup).

Post: #75

I might have missed it but I didn't get the impression that Samseau was trying to say the civil rights movement in itself was bad but that King was a hypocrite for portraying himself as a holier than thou character when he was nothing of the sort.