Post: #26

(10-27-2017 11:17 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 10:10 AM)heavy Wrote:  To my simple mind, I don't understand why Spain (Madrid) would fight a portion of their country from liberating themselves.

Ask Abraham Lincoln!

Spain has issued bonds. Spain has pensions to pay. Wishful thinking is not enough to pay the bills. Secession must be planned very carefully. Catalan freedom should not cause Andalusian misery, for example.

Ah, bonds. That makes sense.

Why can't countries work things through like businesses.

I'm guessing this is how it goes...
Spain: Catalan, we have bonds issued backing our currency blah blah blah. You represent 30% of our GDP and thus, our bond securities.
Catalan: Ok, we can work out a deal where we back your bonds for a time or pay whatever it takes over the next two years blah blah blah.
Spain: No, that's not cool.
Catalan: Well do you have a counter-offer?
Spain: No, fuck you, don't leave.

Based on what I've read, it appears Spain is the non-negotiating party, not Catalan.

Quote:The Catalan authorities went through with the vote, leading to violence inside and around polling stations as Spanish security forces seized ballot boxes and attempted to close down the vote. They said that 2.26 million votes had been counted, with 90 per cent in favour of independence.

Mr Puigdemont says the result is a mandate for a unilateral declaration of independence, although he says he would prefer to negotiate the terms of secession from Spain with the government in Madrid.

That would piss me off too, though we don't totally know how accurately the numbers represent the people. We do know Spain is afraid of what's happening there.

My takeaway thus far: It's interesting the people not showing up to vote are, presumably, the people opposing independence. At the very least, that's a shift in paradigm in the Western world. Imagine if in Texas, the citizens in favor of secession are the voices you hear, and the citizens in favor of staying with the U.S. didn't show up or vote.

Post: #27

Loyalists organized several large marches shortly after the sham referendum

Post: #28

(10-27-2017 11:37 AM)heavy Wrote:  Imagine if in Texas, the citizens in favor of secession are the voices you hear, and the citizens in favor of staying with the U.S. didn't show up or vote.

Easy... if Washington says the vote is "illegal" and patriots should stay away then only the secessionists show up

Post: #29

(10-27-2017 11:30 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 11:24 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Nothing will come of this because they don't have it in them to die for their independence. Tree of liberty, blood of patriots.

This has nothing to do with laziness. Catalans are famous for being entrepreneurial.

Catalans are very bourgeois. Bourgeois people are not good at sacrificing themselves. Especially so when birth rates are this low.

The bourgeoisie were instrumental in the success of the American and French revolutions by providing leadership and even, dying for what they believed in.

The Catalonian's lack of willingness to stand up for what they believe in is laziness pure and simple. Voting is pointless without a fist to back it up.

Let's not forget that the turn out for said vote was hilariously tiny and difficult. I bet if the loyalists had a fair chance at making their voice heard, we'd realize that this is just another loud vocal minority of socialists who are out of touch with the population at large.

What are these fools going to do next now that the Spanish government got some balls? Protest and throw silly flowers onto cops with riot gear? Not even the European media cares about the plight of these sissies.

What's the difference between the IRA, Cubans, the Americans, the French, Russians, and the Catalans?

Every one of them were willing to fight and potentially die for what they believe in.

Until that happens in Catalonia, they'll continue to lazily whine about their situation with lip service paid to the people who will eventually clam up and fall back in line.

Post: #30

(10-27-2017 11:37 AM)heavy Wrote:  Based on what I've read, it appears Spain is the non-negotiating party, not Catalan.

If I were to take a guess, I would say that nobody in a position of power in Madrid wants to go down in history as responsible for the collapse of Spain. If Catalunya breaks free, soon the Basque Country and Galicia may get bolder secessionist ideas, too. If those broke free, it would quickly become very clear that what would be left of Spain would be Gran Castilla + provinces.

Post: #31

(10-27-2017 11:46 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  The bourgeoisie were instrumental in the success of the American and French revolutions by providing leadership and even, dying for what they believed in. The Catalonian's lack of willingness to stand up for what they believe in is laziness pure and simple. Voting is pointless without a fist to back it up.

George Washington had 9 siblings. And he was part of the gentry, i.e., lower American Nobility. Not bourgeois in my book.

Spain is one of the most visited countries in the world. Does it make any sense to scare tourists away when unemployment is high? If Madrid killed a few hundred secessionists, Catalan secessionists would have their martyrs and their heroes. Madrid would perhaps win the battle, but the war would continue. For centuries, if necessary.

We are living in the 21st century. Everyone has a portable video camera now. You cannot kill people by the 1000s and expect no consequences. And Barcelona is not a Middle Eastern hellhole, it is arguably the best and most cosmopolitan city of the whole Mediterranean.

(10-27-2017 11:46 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  What's the difference between the IRA, Cubans, the Americans, the French, Russians, and the Catalans? Every one of them were willing to fight and potentially die for what they believe in.

Are you forgetting the Spanish Civil War? Or the Catalan Revolt of 1640?

Post: #32

Quote:Yesterday, the Catalonian president, Carles Puigdemont, seemed to relent to Spain’s pressure, calling for local elections and backing away from any immediate declaration of independence.

Space seemed to be open for talks.

All Puigdemont asked was for the Spanish government of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy to step back from the brink and remove the threat of a takeover by Madrid.


But Rajoy, who has taken the hardest of hard lines over any question of Catalan's quest for autonomy, refused. And so here we are.

The U.S. State Department issued a statement today in support of Spanish unity.

"The United States enjoys a great friendship and an enduring partnership with our NATO ally, Spain," State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said in a statement. "Catalonia is an integral part of Spain, and the United States supports the Spanish government's constitutional measures to keep Spain strong and united."

The world will be watching what happens over the next 48 hours on the streets of Barcelona.

"Uhhhh...I was just kidding "

Post: #33

(10-27-2017 10:14 AM)Repo Wrote:  You think the US would be cool if New York or California declared independence?

Catalans makes up a huge portion of Spain's GDP, of course they don't want them to leave.

I think a large part of the USA would offer to help them back their bags.

Post: #34

(10-27-2017 12:13 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 11:46 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  The bourgeoisie were instrumental in the success of the American and French revolutions by providing leadership and even, dying for what they believed in. The Catalonian's lack of willingness to stand up for what they believe in is laziness pure and simple. Voting is pointless without a fist to back it up.

George Washington had 9 siblings. And he was part of the gentry, i.e., lower American Nobility. Not bourgeois in my book.

Ah yes, because George Washington was the only person who had a hand in making the American Revolution happen.

I suggest you do some extra research into the lives of the other individuals who participated significantly to the revolutionary effort. Individuals like John Hancock are who come to mind, but there are many many more.

Let's not forget about the French, in fact many so-called "socialist" historians call the French Revolution a bourgeois one. But I digress.

(10-27-2017 12:13 PM)Icarus Wrote:  Spain is one of the most visited countries in the world. Does it make any sense to scare tourists away when unemployment is high? If Madrid killed a few hundred secessionists, Catalan secessionists would have their martyrs and their heroes. Madrid would perhaps win the battle, but the war would continue. For centuries, if necessary.

We are living in the 21st century. Everyone has a portable video camera now. You cannot kill people by the 1000s and expect no consequences. And Barcelona is not a Middle Eastern hellhole, it is arguably the best and most cosmopolitan city of the whole Mediterranean.

The Spainish government doesn't have to kill anyone. All they need to do is mobilize a bunch of cops in riot gear, shoot some tear gas into a crowd, and jail some agitators. If one or two people die because they got trampled so be it. They'll be remembered on a plaque somewhere for future people to ponder what they were fighting about.

There will be some outrage somewhere, but just like every other police and rioter beat down, no one will care once the news cycle resets.

The people who need to spill blood to stand up for what they believe in are the Catalonians, who quite bluntly don't have the guts, arms, or skills to do so.

(10-27-2017 12:13 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 11:46 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  What's the difference between the IRA, Cubans, the Americans, the French, Russians, and the Catalans? Every one of them were willing to fight and potentially die for what they believe in.

Are you forgetting the Spanish Civil War? Or the Catalan Revolt of 1640?

Are you forgetting some other historically irrelevant time period in Spain's history that has no bearing on what's going on today?

Let's compare the Spain of today with the Spain of the 1930s or even the 17th century.

Today it has zero weapons, cheap plentiful food on the table, heated and cooled homes, creature comfort gizmos, and entertainment galore.

Once the Spanish government shows some force against the agitators in the form of armed police, they'll back down and this will all be forgotten.

Post: #35

(10-27-2017 12:37 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 10:14 AM)Repo Wrote:  You think the US would be cool if New York or California declared independence?

Catalans makes up a huge portion of Spain's GDP, of course they don't want them to leave.

I think a large part of the USA would offer to help them back their bags.

Regular citizens maybe, but people in charge recognize that these two states subsidize many of the other states, especially many bible belt states.

California, New York, or Texas could all declare independence and if allowed would be just fine while the states left behind would suffer.

Anyway, that's a topic for another thread.

Post: #36

(10-27-2017 12:58 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Ah yes, because George Washington was the only person who had a hand in making the American Revolution happen.

Yet, he was the one who became the 1st President, not a bourgeois urbanite. Probably not an accident.

(10-27-2017 12:58 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Let's not forget about the French, in fact many so-called "socialist" historians call the French Revolution a bourgeois one. But I digress.

The French Revolution was for decades viewed more or less as the Holocaust is viewed today. Most people cheering for it (or against it) know nothing of history and just like to regurgitate platitudes.

(10-27-2017 12:58 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Spain doesn't have to kill anyone. All they need to do is mobilize a bunch of cops in riot gear, shoot some tear gas into a crowd, and jail some agitators. [...] There will be some outrage somewhere, but just like every other police and rioter beat down, no one will care once the news cycle resets. The people who need to spill blood to stand up for what they believe in are the Catalonians, who quite bluntly don't have the guts, arms, or skills to do so.

You have never met any Catalan secessionists, have you?

I have, and some of them still remember the 1640 Revolt like it was yesterday.

They used to be fringe fanatics that people did not take seriously, but things have changed.

Post: #37

Question is, will Russia recognize Catalunia - and then Catalans would in turn quickly recognize Crimea (as part of the RF)? I hope Vladimir Putin would not fall into this tempting, but deceptive, trap...

Will China recognize Catalunia, too, at some point (though China will certainly adopt a wait-and-see attitude, not wanting to openly defy the EU)? I mean, if China wanted, it could make Catalunia its puppet State in like, 2 years, like some economically-enslaved African country.

We already know that Venezuela (and Cuba? not sure about Cuba, considering that many Cuban tourist assets are in the hands of Spaniards) should soon recognize Catalunia... and people asked me why I insisted so much on the necessity of neutralizing Madero...

Don't doubt one second that Maduro's commie hand is all over this (like Chavez's was), dude has been financing the Spanish left for years...

Catalunia as "independent State" would therefore become a forward base for Venezuela (meaning, Iran, too) and assorted communist groups.

Post: #38

(10-27-2017 01:06 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 12:58 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Ah yes, because George Washington was the only person who had a hand in making the American Revolution happen.

Yet, he was the one who became the 1st President, not a bourgeois urbanite. Probably not an accident.

You need to do more research on the American Revolution and the formation of the government we know today. George didn't want to be president first and foremost. Secondly, he didn't become president until 1788 almost five years after the revolutionary war.

Thirdly, the office of the president as we know it didn't exist under the first form of government the United States devised immediately following the closing years revolutionary war (called the articles of confederation). That form of government had an equivalent presidential position held by a man that goes by the name of John Hanson who, wait for it, was a wealthy merchant.

(10-27-2017 01:06 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 12:58 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Let's not forget about the French, in fact many so-called "socialist" historians call the French Revolution a bourgeois one. But I digress.

The French Revolution was for decades viewed more or less as the Holocaust is viewed today. Most people cheering for it (or against it) know nothing of history and just like to regurgitate platitudes.

I'll choose to disagree with you on this one.

(10-27-2017 01:06 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 12:58 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Spain doesn't have to kill anyone. All they need to do is mobilize a bunch of cops in riot gear, shoot some tear gas into a crowd, and jail some agitators. [...] There will be some outrage somewhere, but just like every other police and rioter beat down, no one will care once the news cycle resets. The people who need to spill blood to stand up for what they believe in are the Catalonians, who quite bluntly don't have the guts, arms, or skills to do so.

You have never met any Catalan secessionists, have you?

I have, and some of them still remember the 1640 Revolt like it was yesterday.

And do those same secessionists today own any firearms and have military training?

Post: #39

Meanwhile, all of Europe's alt-Left, LGBT and "antifa" trash (plus foreign agitateurs), are rushing to their beloved Barcelona, "to fight Spanish State fascism" ... It will be ugly.

I wonder by the way if our dear Traktor will leave his Belarusian comfy, 100% White, anti-migrant nest, to fight and die for Communism-reborn in Catalunia? Traktor, the time is now to fight for your ideals! Lesbians, antifas, Venezuelan commies, are waiting for you on the Catalan barricades, tovarich! Davai Traktor, Red glory is awaiting you on the Ramblas!

In any case, I bet Rajoy will win this fight, and deal a crushing blow to the global Left.

Now, some of you might remember the Baldrich dude who used to make threads about Spain... well, I wrote to him many times that he did not fully understand Spanish soul and hidden toughness, and that, especially, mister Rajoy was far from being a "centrist cuck". We'll see if I was and am right, about this, soon.

My bet: Rajoy will prove himself to be a strong, real Conservative, real Rightwing leader, and bring the Catalunian army of smelly antifas, illegals and raging lesbians, to their torn-jeans clad knees.

Post: #40

(10-27-2017 01:14 PM)Going strong Wrote:  Catalunia as "independent State" would therefore become a forward base for Venezuela (meaning, Iran, too) and assorted communist groups.

No. Catalan secessionism is a rather strange mix of bourgeois snobs and ultra-left ideologues, but what led to this was the economic crisis of the past decade. That and Franco's suppression of the Catalan language, which created cohesion amongst bourgeois and commies, which is rather unlikely. Foreign influence almost certainly had negligible effects.

Post: #41

Quote:“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

Marcus Tullius Cicero

Post: #42

I don't know a ton about Catalan but from what I've heard, they're a left region of Spain that may be the richest region of the country with one of the two biggest cities. Is it fair to call this a mini version of California declaring independence from the rest of the US?

Post: #43

If it wasn't because of Spain happening, all "Catalans" would be speaking french right now. My statement is as idiotic as basing the idea of an Independent State on only a couple of historical facts.

I prefer to look at it with present and future eyes; and, in my myopic opinion, Catalonia's independence is a move stirred by the left, with who knows exactly what purpose and exactly backed by whom? Good points made by Going Strong about the involvement of the repulsive commies.

Post: #44

(10-27-2017 01:52 PM)yankeetravels Wrote:  I don't know a ton about Catalan but from what I've heard, they're a left region of Spain that may be the richest region of the country with one of the two biggest cities. Is it fair to call this a mini version of California declaring independence from the rest of the US?

Close. For perspective, on a percentage basis Catalan represents a larger portion of Spain's economy than California does to the US.

Post: #45

Absent all the stuff about antifa and the left and globalists, etc, does Catalan have some historical justification as an independent nation state?

Spain hasn't been willing to negotiate in good faith on the question of Catalan's subsidizing the Spanish federal budget - is this a reasonable cause to declare independence?

The historical record would argue that it is.

Many Russians wanted their separate ethnic state apart from the Soviet Union in 1991 because they didn't want to subsidize central asia. America split with the UK over taxation without representation. Northern Italy doesn't want to subsidize the lazy and corrupt Sicilians anymore, northern Europeans were reluctant to bailout the PIGS during the euro-crisis. Obviously I'm summarizing some complex situations above, but the feeling that citizens are paying taxes to an entity that will redistribute the money away from their interests has been a reason to cut them off for most of modern history. Countries will certainly subsidize a poorer region for military interests (like Russia and Crimea) but smaller regions are often resentful of large central governments grabbing a chunk of their tax payments and sending it to other regions.

Wealth transfer between regions already creates resentment, and now on top of that you add linguistic and some cultural differences between them - under those conditions it becomes hard to argue that Catalan's desire for independence is solely due to alt-left funding to destroy the nation state. This is merely human nature and selfish gene theory being played out at the geopolitical level.

If anything their unwillingness to subsidize a poorer region certainly has hints of conservative and not SJW logic.

And even our favorite anti-establishment commentator of the month Jullian Assange has been somewhat vocal criticizing the EU for its support for the Spanish government.

So, clearly, the (((globalists))) are far from united in their support for Catalan independence and the Spanish government is not the darling of the nationalists like some are trying to make him out to be in this thread.

Yes, I know the Catalan feminists want a feminist state, but do you think they are the larger force, or are they in fact outnumbered by the more traditional folks in the small towns and villages in rural Catalonia who are hardcore fans of independence? Barcelona is not Catalonia.

Post: #46

(10-27-2017 02:33 PM)Arado Wrote:  Spain hasn't been willing to negotiate in good faith on the question of Catalan's subsidizing the Spanish federal budget

People forgot the 1992 Summer Olympics. Who subsidized whom back then?

Post: #47

(10-27-2017 01:42 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 01:14 PM)Going strong Wrote:  Catalunia as "independent State" would therefore become a forward base for Venezuela (meaning, Iran, too) and assorted communist groups.

No. Catalan secessionism is a rather strange mix of bourgeois snobs and ultra-left ideologues, but what led to this was the economic crisis of the past decade. That and Franco's suppression of the Catalan language, which created cohesion amongst bourgeois and commies, which is rather unlikely. Foreign influence almost certainly had negligible effects.

You're right. GS, you're wrong in this case. The separatists are part of a trotskist, globalist agenda to break apart a great Catholic nation-state of Spain, and to balkanize other european nations. If you break down the nation-states, people will be run by bureaucrats from Brussels, who will decide for the micro-states their foreign policy, immigration and border policies.

I posted this on the European migrants mega-thread a few months ago, worth reposting here. It's a sharp analysis of the Catalonia separatist movement and the globalist angle by Irish journalist Geroid O'Colmain:

---------------------------------------------------------

The Jerusalem Post reported on the 24th of November, 2014 that ‘Israel and Germany may be the key to initially financing a Catalan state independent of Spain’. Barcelona’s High Court Judge Santiago Vidal told the Israeli newspaper:“ Another state (Israel) will serve as our temporary bank”. For those requiring further exegesis, Jewish money, that is to say international High Finance will ensure the survival of ‘independent’ Catalan.

No doubt, there are plenty hoodutionairy Catalans on the streets of Barcelona donning Palestinian scarves and chanting leftist songs from the Spanish Civil War. Former Greek Finance Minister Vanis Varoufakis has even turned up to assure everyone that the whole thing is ‘left-wing’ and ‘progressive’. He did the same during the Nuit Debout movement in Paris, before dashing off Che Guevara-like to meet… ahem… Emmanuel Macron!

What middle-class Palestinophile leftists have trouble understanding is that Zionism is only partially a project of occupying the Middle East. Zionism is in fact much more; it is a project of global domination. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has made their intentions crystal clear: “Israel must become a world power”.

Israel must become, as Sheihk Imran Hosein has put it, “the new ruling state in the world”. Open borders; mass immigration; the destruction of the nation-state, destruction of the family; in short, globalisation is the process whereby all the world’s states collapse into the institutions of the world-state presided over by the sacerdotal ‘chosen ones’. It’s not so difficult to achieve when you can boast, as Netanyahu has, that “ We have America”.

...

The Jews expel Spain!

Catholic Spain was never a happy place for Jews – except perhaps when they were opening the gates to the Islamic conquests of Andalusia in the 8th century AD!

During the Spanish Inquisition, Jewish fake converts(conversos or Maranos) to Christianity were corrupting the Catholic Church from within, threatening to bring down all of Christendom. In his book A History of the Maranos Jewish scholar Cecil Roth argues that the Catholic Church was justified in its suspicions of the conversos . The Spanish Inquisition, far from being a ‘reign of terror’, was in fact a genuine attempt by the Catholic Church to stamp out corruption and heresy.

In a similar way to the so-called ‘red terror’ in the Soviet Union, the Catholic Church and Spanish Kingdom had been infiltrated by inveterate enemies, operating at the highest levels of Church and State. Like the Soviet Government, the Catholic Church sought to limit executions of its enemies, not maximise them.

The Jews were eventually expelled from Spain in 1492 under the Alhambra Decree; first to Portugal and then to Holland. Powerful Jews such as international diplomat Joseph Nassi, the father of Zionism ( or perhaps Nass-ism!), were instrumental in provoking the Dutch Revolt of 1568 to 1648 which brought down the Spanish Empire.

When Marano (crypto) Jews in the Netherlands contributed to the development of modern banking with promissory notes promoting usury on a grand scale, the Spanish Empire’s gold and silver-based economy declined rapidly.

In his 1911 book Die Juden und das Wirtschaftsleben, translated as The Jews and Modern Capitalism, the German sociologist showed how Jews were the brains behind the modern capitalist mode of production.

Capitalism killed the Spanish Empire; it is now killing the Spanish people.

Post-Catholic, neoliberal Spain is a moribund entity. The Spanish government is beginning to look pathetic, blaming the Kremlin’s media outlets for its woes. To be sure, Wikileaks Julian Assange has been making extremely incendiary and irresponsible statements about civil war in Spain should the independence agenda fail and Russian media are giving him a platform.

Russian media, so truthful in many regards, has simply ignored the criminality pushing for Catalonian independence. Though, to their credit, their Spanish language reports have mentioned Mr. Soros and his colour revolutionaries.

Most people on the left have been, ONCE AGAIN, dupes of Zionist psychological warfare. Israeli observers (organisers) of the Catalan elections have said they are “shocked” by the brutality of the Spanish police. Israelis are, of course, extremely pacifist!

Jordi Pujol and los cabalistas!

Billionaire gangster politician Jordi Pujol is the father of the Catalan independence movement. He has been implicated in massive financial scandals with off-shore accounts and a litany of public service corruption. Pujol is a close collaborator of Catalonia’s powerful Jewish community. He apparently sent four of his children to an Israeli Kibbutz. He says he is Catholic, but only God knows!

In 1985 he founded the Assembly of European Regions (AER) with French historian and politician Edgar Faure, which advocated the breaking up of Europe’s nations into regions under the control of a federal European state. The policy of divide and conquer has already been carried out with ruthless determination in the Middle East, where Israel’s power and territory has continued to expand. Israeli agencies encourage mass immigration into Europe but call immigrants in Israel ‘infiltrators’.

In recent years Catalonia has become somewhat of an Eldorado for wealthy Jews, with synagogues and ancient Jewish quarters restored. It is certainly a positive thing to see Jewish culture being celebrated and respected, but the fanatical Zionism of Catalonia’s leaders is a matter of concern.

If Catalonia succeeds in breaking from Spain, more micro-states will emerge and they are all likely to be characterised by a zealous devotion to the Jewish State. One only has to read the separatist literature in France’s Brittany, where Israel is constantly invoked as a model society.

As the phony war on terrorism intensifies, with mass migration into Europe and Israeli operatives ‘securing’ our public spaces, we are witnessing the Gaza-fication of the world. Micro-states will become like prisons for European citizens under the pretext of ‘security’. The mobility of Europeans will continue to be restricted while armies of Jihadists cross into Europe playing the Jewish victim card.

An Assembly of European Regions would bring us one step further towards a European federal state dominated by Jewish money and its Middle Eastern empire. The Jews already have their own European parliament.

...

When we speak, however, of a souring of Spanish/Israeli relations, we do not mean that Spain refuses to submit to Jewish supremacy. On the contrary, since 2012, a Jew who can trace his ancestry to Medieval Spain may automatically become a Spanish citizen.

One should not be under the impression that the criticism of the reactionary, independence movement in Catalonia implies that the Spanish government is somehow ‘resisting imperialism’. The Rajoy regime is rotten to the core. In fact, many analysts suspect they may even be secretly collaborating with the Catalan separatists.

If Spain is to survive this century it will need to call for a new non-violent, political and ideological Inquisition and move towards a non-usurious economic Catholicism (in the Greek sense of that term) but at this late hour, we are all on Noah’s Arc heading for Eurotopia, drifting in an unholy sea of conversos.

http://www.gearoidocolmain.org/israel-will-bank/
--------------------------------------------

Colmain's article confirms a lot of my gut feeling about (1) the Spanish government, with its clearly counter-productive over-the-top violent crackdown, is encouraging the separatists, and (2) Catalan separatism is part and parcel of the globalist agenda.

Post: #48

(10-27-2017 02:33 PM)Arado Wrote:  So, clearly, the (((globalists))) are far from united in their support for Catalan independence and the Spanish government is not the darling of the nationalists like some are trying to make him out to be in this thread.

Yes, I know the Catalan feminists want a feminist state, but do you think they are the larger force, or are they in fact outnumbered by the more traditional folks in the small towns and villages in rural Catalonia who are hardcore fans of independence? Barcelona is not Catalonia.

From Wiki:

As of 2016, the official population of Catalonia was 7,448,332.[103] About 1,104,782 residents had non-Spanish nationalities representing about 15% of the population.[104]

The Urban Region of Barcelona includes 5,217,864 people and covers an area of 2,268 km2 (876 sq mi). The metropolitan area of the Urban Region includes cities such as L'Hospitalet de Llobregat, Sabadell, Terrassa, Badalona, Santa Coloma de Gramenet and Cornellà de Llobregat.

Post: #49

(10-27-2017 02:44 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 02:33 PM)Arado Wrote:  Spain hasn't been willing to negotiate in good faith on the question of Catalan's subsidizing the Spanish federal budget

People forgot the 1992 Summer Olympics. Who subsidized whom back then?

Not just the Olympics, but decades of the Spanish governement favoring the Barcelona region as an industrial center. This is not quite like in Italy, where the north has been an industrial and commercial powerhouse since the middle ages. Barcelona has been a footnote in Spanish history until last century. When you think of great historic Spanish cities, you think Madrid, Seville, Valencia, Cadiz etc...

(10-27-2017 11:07 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 11:04 AM)Elster Wrote:  If you want to get an idea of how the rest of the Spaniards feel about the situation, you need only take a stroll in non-catalonian town and look up to the windows and balconies...

Ill be back in Valencia on Tuesday..what will I see?

Post: #50

(10-27-2017 10:10 AM)heavy Wrote:  To my simple mind, I don't understand why Spain (Madrid) would fight a portion of their country from liberating themselves. I don't understand the idea that "we can't let these people leave"...or even more accurate and more befuddling, "we can't let people in this area develop their own autonomous rule of law independent of ours".

It's bizarre. I think it goes back to what Gavin McInnes says.

"There's two kinds of people: People who want to be left the fuck alone, and people who won't leave you the fuck alone."

I don't know what's so 'bizarre' about this. It's Spain's territory and they intend to keep it, that simple. There have been regional independence movements since the dawn of time and there is no 'right' or 'wrong' as both sides usually offer reasonable historic claims. In the end might is right, people. If Spain let's Cataluña go then the Basque region is next and then perhaps it's Sicily or Corsica. Make no mistake, this plays directly into the hands of globalists who are intent on destroying long established sovereign nations.