Post: #26

(10-27-2017 03:14 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  I think I would prefer to get a blonde haired dictionary to teach me a word after each bang.

I don't know about you, but I'd like to learn more than 7 words per year.

Post: #27

Bucky of course pimsleur gets you from point 0 to point x.

My point was that other ways with the same amount of time would get you from point 0 to point x+y

I did pimsleur and Michel Thomas and memrise and Anki and all.

Pimsleur is the worst for Russian. Even if you memorize it all you would not get further than first 2 mins of conversation unless you're discussing airplanes landing for an hour.

Post: #28

(10-26-2017 09:19 AM)TripleG Wrote:  One of the posters earlier mentioned that just because you've "immersed yourself in a language" by living in that country doesnt mean youll get very far if you dont step out and actually get into social circles. Online apps and memorizations will only go so far... Just wanted to share a short story of mine...(Not really related to Russian although i speak it well). I relocated from USA to Austria and been studying German for 3 months now almost every day.

I thought i had small talk mastered but low and behold today while walking on the street a chick asked me for directions and I froze. Then i rambled in broken German directions and realised I got the turns wrong...she realized i was not making sense and said something like "nevermind". I tried to stop her and switch to English but she walked away. Although i was upset with my lack of language skills i went home that night and continued memorizing words and directions. Moral of the story is that no matter what foreign language you pickup you need to learn mistakes from your daily interactions, write them down and as part of your "mental homework" correct them. Then rinse and repeat. Im pretty sure now next cute chick that asks me for directions will not only get them but will also get my number

Excellent point about memorizing your mistakes and learning not to repeat them. I used to write down common mistakes or just things that were technically correct but clunky that my students would say in Ukraine and incorporate them into drills that focused on getting them to not only make fewer mistakes but also sound more natural when speaking English. Trying to get them to stop using the word "situated" so often, for example (you'll know what I mean if you've been around Russian speakers who know English much).

Thing is, that goes to a point I made in my original post, you can also learn from the mistakes that native speakers of your target language make when speaking English. For example from the overuse of "situated" I mentioned above I learned that using "nazhoditsya" (находится) when describing where something large and immobile is is the most natural thing in Russian. Or here in Central America, I hear locals who know English say things like "I have two years working here" which reminds me that that's the most natural way to say it in Spanish ("Yo tengo dos años trabajando aqui" instead of "Yo he estado trabajando aqui dos años.").

Post: #29

I'm a native Russian speaker and I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to even begin learning Russian if I didn't know it . Kudos to you guys for attempting and succeeding.

Another thing that makes Russian probably even harder is the fact that the written/book version is nothing NOTHING like spoken Russian.

Post: #30

(10-27-2017 08:06 AM)bucky Wrote:  Or here in Central America, I hear locals who know English say things like "I have two years working here" which reminds me that that's the most natural way to say it in Spanish ("Yo tengo dos años trabajando aqui" instead of "Yo he estado trabajando aqui dos años.").

It might be a dialect thing, but "tengo dos años trabajando aqui" sounds wrong to me and Spanish is my native language.

"He estado trabajando aqui dos años" is good, but the more natural way to say that would be with the verb "llevar" (literally, "to take", "to carry"):

Llevo aquí dos años trabajando.

Llevar + the gerund + time expression (e.g. Llevo trabajando/viviendo/pensando 2 años/3 horas/5 minutos etc)

This is the equivalent of "To have been doing something" (e.g. I've been living here for 2 years) and is pretty universal across Spanish dialects.

Post: #31

(10-27-2017 11:25 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 08:06 AM)bucky Wrote:  Or here in Central America, I hear locals who know English say things like "I have two years working here" which reminds me that that's the most natural way to say it in Spanish ("Yo tengo dos años trabajando aqui" instead of "Yo he estado trabajando aqui dos años.").

It might be a dialect thing, but "tengo dos años trabajando aqui" sounds wrong to me and Spanish is my native language.

"He estado trabajando aqui dos años" is good, but the more natural way to say that would be with the verb "llevar" (literally, "to take", "to carry"):

Llevo aquí dos años trabajando.

Llevar + the gerund + time expression (e.g. Llevo trabajando/viviendo/pensando 2 años/3 horas/5 minutos etc)

This is the equivalent of "To have been doing something" (e.g. I've been living here for 2 years) and is pretty universal across Spanish dialects.

I'm a native (Castillian) speaker and "tengo dos años trabajando aqui" sounds horrible to me. I have plenty of South American friends and none of them would ever say this.

Maybe it's limited to a few Central American regions? I know some people use this structure in Mexico. But to others it just sounds low class and uneducated.

Spanish dialects are much trickier than native English speakers tend to assume.



Back to the original topic... if you find Russian hard, try Czech! at least you can find hundred of resources for Russian.

For Czech I could only find 3 different grammar books, and they are all horrible.

Post: #32

(10-28-2017 07:22 AM)Stallion Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 11:25 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 08:06 AM)bucky Wrote:  Or here in Central America, I hear locals who know English say things like "I have two years working here" which reminds me that that's the most natural way to say it in Spanish ("Yo tengo dos años trabajando aqui" instead of "Yo he estado trabajando aqui dos años.").

It might be a dialect thing, but "tengo dos años trabajando aqui" sounds wrong to me and Spanish is my native language.

"He estado trabajando aqui dos años" is good, but the more natural way to say that would be with the verb "llevar" (literally, "to take", "to carry"):

Llevo aquí dos años trabajando.

Llevar + the gerund + time expression (e.g. Llevo trabajando/viviendo/pensando 2 años/3 horas/5 minutos etc)

This is the equivalent of "To have been doing something" (e.g. I've been living here for 2 years) and is pretty universal across Spanish dialects.

I'm a native (Castillian) speaker and "tengo dos años trabajando aqui" sounds horrible to me. I have plenty of South American friends and none of them would ever say this.

Maybe it's limited to a few Central American regions? I know some people use this structure in Mexico. But to others it just sounds low class and uneducated.

Spanish dialects are much trickier than native English speakers tend to assume.



Back to the original topic... if you find Russian hard, try Czech! at least you can find hundred of resources for Russian.

For Czech I could only find 3 different grammar books, and they are all horrible.

It's probably a Mexican/Central American thing. I've never heard anyone say "llevo" in that sense. Like you said, Spanish differs wildly from country to country. They don't use the future perfect tense (I think that's what it's called) here either. Never "yo diré" only "yo voy a decir." People are pretty uneducated here for the most part, so that's probably why their dialect has that reputation. For what it's worth, European Spanish sounds kind of silly to me, with all the lisping you guys do.

And yes, like you said, one advantage of studying a language in the top-ten mostly widely spoken is availability of materials. I have little interest in learning an obscure language like Czech, unless maybe I were going to live in the Czech Republic for some reason. I was very worried that I'd be forced to learn Ukrainian instead of Russian when I lived in Ukraine.

Post: #33

(10-27-2017 06:00 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Bucky of course pimsleur gets you from point 0 to point x.

My point was that other ways with the same amount of time would get you from point 0 to point x+y

I did pimsleur and Michel Thomas and memrise and Anki and all.

Pimsleur is the worst for Russian. Even if you memorize it all you would not get further than first 2 mins of conversation unless you're discussing airplanes landing for an hour.

Maybe we did different versions of Pimsleur? I don't remember anything about airplanes. Granted this was over 15 years ago.

When I arrived in Ukraine I was conversational in Russian on a basic level. I could introduce myself in Russian, ask directions, order things in restaurants, ask what people did for a living, things like that, and I could understand a lot of what they said back. I could also communicate with one of the cute girls who worked at the hotel I was in at first well enough to...achieve my goals, let's say. This after hardly anything but three months of Pimsleur. No one else in my group who wasn't a native speaker or who hadn't studied for years and lived in a Russian-speaking country before was anywhere near my level and again, this was almost all due to Pimsleur.

I suppose it's possible that your other programs are better, although I doubt it, but still, please don't go around telling people that Pimsleur is "shit for Russian." It just isn't true, as long as you follow the directions and don't skip days.

Post: #34

Not sure if this is the right thread, but I'm trying to maintain my Russian. Anyone have recommendations for good sources for English movies dubbed into Russian (willing to pay) or quality Russian serials/movies/entertainment shows? I already listen to news broadcasts and can get over 50% of the content but want to supplement that with everyday type speech. In daily life I rarely encounter Russians so I just want to maintain my listening ability for now.

Post: #35

(10-29-2017 06:57 AM)Arado Wrote:  Not sure if this is the right thread, but I'm trying to maintain my Russian. Anyone have recommendations for good sources for English movies dubbed into Russian (willing to pay) or quality Russian serials/movies/entertainment shows? I already listen to news broadcasts and can get over 50% of the content but want to supplement that with everyday type speech. In daily life I rarely encounter Russians so I just want to maintain my listening ability for now.

I personally watch кухня on youtube (a russian comedy series). There's also готель элеон from the same producers and Бригада, which is a famous series about the mafia in the late 90s/early 2000s.

For movies, I'd reccommed брат (1 & 2), война and неадекватные люди. They are all on youtube as well. Операция ы is also good, probably the most famous movie of the Soviet era.

Вечерний Ургант is sort of like a late night talk show. At one point they had Floyd Mayweather as a guest.

Post: #36

(10-29-2017 07:33 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

(10-29-2017 06:57 AM)Arado Wrote:  Not sure if this is the right thread, but I'm trying to maintain my Russian. Anyone have recommendations for good sources for English movies dubbed into Russian (willing to pay) or quality Russian serials/movies/entertainment shows? I already listen to news broadcasts and can get over 50% of the content but want to supplement that with everyday type speech. In daily life I rarely encounter Russians so I just want to maintain my listening ability for now.

I personally watch кухня on youtube (a russian comedy series). There's also готель элеон from the same producers and Бригада, which is a famous series about the mafia in the late 90s/early 2000s.

For movies, I'd reccommed брат (1 & 2), война and неадекватные люди. They are all on youtube as well. Операция ы is also good, probably the most famous movie of the Soviet era.

Вечерний Ургант is sort of like a late night talk show. At one point they had Floyd Mayweather as a guest.

Great suggestions, having them on youtube makes it far more convenient.

I've found some U.S. movies on Yandex video but the dubbing is poor quality, so trying to find other sources.

Post: #37

(10-29-2017 07:33 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

(10-29-2017 06:57 AM)Arado Wrote:  Not sure if this is the right thread, but I'm trying to maintain my Russian. Anyone have recommendations for good sources for English movies dubbed into Russian (willing to pay) or quality Russian serials/movies/entertainment shows? I already listen to news broadcasts and can get over 50% of the content but want to supplement that with everyday type speech. In daily life I rarely encounter Russians so I just want to maintain my listening ability for now.

I personally watch кухня on youtube (a russian comedy series). There's also готель элеон from the same producers and Бригада, which is a famous series about the mafia in the late 90s/early 2000s.

For movies, I'd reccommed брат (1 & 2), война and неадекватные люди. They are all on youtube as well. Операция ы is also good, probably the most famous movie of the Soviet era.

Вечерний Ургант is sort of like a late night talk show. At one point they had Floyd Mayweather as a guest.

I can second those movie recommendations. I've also watched a lot of "Interny", a rip-off of Scrubs which is entertaining enough. The "tnt-online.ru" site has it there for free.

Also this site has transcripts for a couple of seasons of Interny. What I do is print the transcript out, read it, look up any words/phrases I don't understand, try to understand the plot, and then watch it, pausing and rewinding until I am sure I comprehended the conversations.

Another resource to check out is russian music. There is a lot of russian music on spotify and it can be a good way to keep those neural circuits active without expending a lot of effort.

Post: #38

Another thing my tutor who speaks 5 languages taught me is to do your reading practice out loud. Not only do you work on your reading but you have to practice pronunciation of new and unfamiliar forms of words and phrases at the same time.

Post: #39

(10-29-2017 07:33 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

(10-29-2017 06:57 AM)Arado Wrote:  Not sure if this is the right thread, but I'm trying to maintain my Russian. Anyone have recommendations for good sources for English movies dubbed into Russian (willing to pay) or quality Russian serials/movies/entertainment shows? I already listen to news broadcasts and can get over 50% of the content but want to supplement that with everyday type speech. In daily life I rarely encounter Russians so I just want to maintain my listening ability for now.

I personally watch кухня on youtube (a russian comedy series). There's also готель элеон from the same producers and Бригада, which is a famous series about the mafia in the late 90s/early 2000s.

For movies, I'd reccommed брат (1 & 2), война and неадекватные люди. They are all on youtube as well. Операция ы is also good, probably the most famous movie of the Soviet era.

Вечерний Ургант is sort of like a late night talk show. At one point they had Floyd Mayweather as a guest.

Started watching Кухня today and it's great entertainment.

Great advise!

Post: #40

Anyone got any thoughts on learning the cases? What importance do you attach to it? The reason I ask is that whenever I have a lesson, the whole thing often seems to be bogged down with minute details of the cases.

Russian teachers seem to have decided that the cases are the most important thing. But seeing as I only want Russian for social situations, I always feel like it's not that important at my stage of learning - I just want more useful phrases and vocabulary to help me make myself understood. If I say vrach or vrachom doesn't seem that vital at my early stage of learning.

Obviously I hope to master it, but it feels like the kind of thing that could be picked up and perfected further down the road.

On another note, I also started watching Кухня and definitely recommend it. I don't understand most of it, but it's very visual comedy so it makes for a good watch. I've also been watching a Russian Sherlock Holmes remake which has English subtitles.

Post: #41

Maybe not in the initial stages to make yourself understood but you will have to learn it very fast. Otherwise you will sound incredibly uncultured and remind people of Central Asian immigrants. And I don't mean the in-depth stuff like instrumental vs. nominative or genitive vs. accusative but getting it by and large right.

Post: #42

Icrus, thanks for this awesome guide to basic Russian slang. I knew most of these but a few were new to me. Anyway, anyone who memorizes these will be far ahead of most learners. Bonus, using them in conversation is guaranteed to get you a laugh from native speakers.

As far as the difficulty of Spanish, I like to say that no language is easy to learn but Spanish is about as easy as it gets, at least for a native English speaker. It might be slightly harder for you as a German native speaker because of all the Latin based words. Also, Russian is certainly much easier for you than for us since your native language has case structures. Anyway, I felt like getting conversational in Russian was almost 100x harder than Spanish.

Post: #43

(10-27-2017 06:00 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Bucky of course pimsleur gets you from point 0 to point x.

My point was that other ways with the same amount of time would get you from point 0 to point x+y

I did pimsleur and Michel Thomas and memrise and Anki and all.

Pimsleur is the worst for Russian. Even if you memorize it all you would not get further than first 2 mins of conversation unless you're discussing airplanes landing for an hour.

I concur with you entirely about Pimsleur.

I'm working through Russian Accelerator myself (which so far I don't think has been mentioned) - it's a paid online course using contextual learning via pictures and video, it's very slow and steady but actually gives you super literal translations of words and sentences. The guy is an American who taught himself Russian, lived in Sevastopol and has a Ukrainian wife. His teaching style is really easy to follow. IMO, this is the best course out there for beginners.

The problem with Pimsleur is it doesn't give you any super literal translation - it just gets you to parrot phrases ad nauseum - sure that's great, but you'll never understand why it's phrased in that way. It's literally just parroting directly from English - and obviously English doesn't translate directly from Russian. You don't say "I like guitar" in Russian - you literally say "To me is pleasing guitar" (mne nrahvitsa guitara). Pimsleur will never explain that to you.

Sure, it's not entirely "useless" - if you work at it every day for 3 months unquestionably you will progress and get value out of the program. I'm just saying that it doesn't give you grammatical context and / or explain anything to you at all really. There are just simply better uses of your time. For me, I don't want to just "learn phrases" (although that's huge), but I want to also understand from the ground up how and why sentences are structured the way they are.

Also, Michel Thomas is a solid course and undeniably better than Pimsleur. But it's not without its faults either. MT advocates this "no homework, no writing" policy .. which really is bullshit. You need to read and write ASAP, and cover all pathways in learning. I'm actually going back over the Advanced course now and taking notes and points that Natasha (the instructor) makes and writing out the translations again just to get more out of it. I'll do the same with Vocab course too.

Props to you bucky - that's an inspirational post man. I definitely like the look of preply.com - I think I'm not far off being ready to get something out of regular conversation with natives. I agree it sounds like the best way to get cheap practice in with actual teachers who are paid to listen to newbie Russian.

Post: #44

"
The problem with Pimsleur is it doesn't give you any super literal translation - it just gets you to parrot phrases ad nauseum - sure that's great, but you'll never understand why it's phrased in that way. It's literally just parroting directly from English - and obviously English doesn't translate directly from Russian. You don't say "I like guitar" in Russian - you literally say "To me is pleasing guitar" (mne nrahvitsa guitara). Pimsleur will never explain that to you. "

It really sounds like you didn't follow the instructions with Pimsleur, which seems to always be the case with people who say it's a bad course. Did you do it for three months straight without skipping days or trying to combine it with other materials (IIRC the instructions say using other materials is also a no no). Reading and being able to explain grammatical rules is nice but that should all take a backseat to actually speaking the language, which is what Pimsleur teaches, and it does it very quickly by mimicking how infants learn language through listening and repeating. Again, I used Pimsleur exclusively as a beginner and was able to communicate on a basic level in Russian on my first day in Ukraine. Few of my colleagues who used conventional methods ever reached the level I was at on day one.

I agree that Pimsleur is useless if you don't follow the instructions. I'm not saying it's the only method that will work, but I am unaware of anything else that will have you conversational on a basic level in three months if, again, you follow the instructions.

Post: #45

(11-02-2017 02:06 PM)Dirkus Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 06:00 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Bucky of course pimsleur gets you from point 0 to point x.

My point was that other ways with the same amount of time would get you from point 0 to point x+y

I did pimsleur and Michel Thomas and memrise and Anki and all.

Pimsleur is the worst for Russian. Even if you memorize it all you would not get further than first 2 mins of conversation unless you're discussing airplanes landing for an hour.

I concur with you entirely about Pimsleur.

I'm working through Russian Accelerator myself (which so far I don't think has been mentioned) - it's a paid online course using contextual learning via pictures and video, it's very slow and steady but actually gives you super literal translations of words and sentences. The guy is an American who taught himself Russian, lived in Sevastopol and has a Ukrainian wife. His teaching style is really easy to follow. IMO, this is the best course out there for beginners.

The problem with Pimsleur is it doesn't give you any super literal translation - it just gets you to parrot phrases ad nauseum - sure that's great, but you'll never understand why it's phrased in that way. It's literally just parroting directly from English - and obviously English doesn't translate directly from Russian. You don't say "I like guitar" in Russian - you literally say "To me is pleasing guitar" (mne nrahvitsa guitara). Pimsleur will never explain that to you.

Sure, it's not entirely "useless" - if you work at it every day for 3 months unquestionably you will progress and get value out of the program. I'm just saying that it doesn't give you grammatical context and / or explain anything to you at all really. There are just simply better uses of your time. For me, I don't want to just "learn phrases" (although that's huge), but I want to also understand from the ground up how and why sentences are structured the way they are.

Also, Michel Thomas is a solid course and undeniably better than Pimsleur. But it's not without its faults either. MT advocates this "no homework, no writing" policy .. which really is bullshit. You need to read and write ASAP, and cover all pathways in learning. I'm actually going back over the Advanced course now and taking notes and points that Natasha (the instructor) makes and writing out the translations again just to get more out of it. I'll do the same with Vocab course too.

Props to you bucky - that's an inspirational post man. I definitely like the look of preply.com - I think I'm not far off being ready to get something out of regular conversation with natives. I agree it sounds like the best way to get cheap practice in with actual teachers who are paid to listen to newbie Russian.

I totally agree. I only mentioned Michel Thomas as a better alternative in case someone wants that same format.

Neither would be my choice of how to spend my time learning if i had to do it over again. Theyre a waste of time and when compared to other tools, the opportunity cost of that time is too high.

Post: #46

(11-02-2017 07:31 PM)Beirut Wrote:  I totally agree. I only mentioned Michel Thomas as a better alternative in case someone wants that same format.

Neither would be my choice of how to spend my time learning if i had to do it over again. Theyre a waste of time and when compared to other tools, the opportunity cost of that time is too high.

Pimsleur can take you from zero to basic conversation in Russian in three months. That's what it did for me. Which other specific tools can do that? Also, did you begin studying Russian with Pimsleur and follow the instructions? That is, all three months with no skipping days and no using other materials?

Post: #47

^Russian Accelerator. It destroys Pimsleur. But hey .. this argument is mental masturbation for the most part. The fact is the deciding factor on whether you’ll learn the language or not won’t be whether you use one system or another - it will be your staying power and willingness to show up day after after day after day until such time it’s a part of you. You’ve clearly proven you’re in that category bucky - so no matter what avenue you took you’d still learn it simply cause you have that staying power.

Post: #48

(11-03-2017 03:37 AM)Dirkus Wrote:  ^Russian Accelerator. It destroys Pimsleur. But hey .. this argument is mental masturbation for the most part. The fact is the deciding factor on whether you’ll learn the language or not won’t be whether you use one system or another - it will be your staying power and willingness to show up day after after day after day until such time it’s a part of you. You’ve clearly proven you’re in that category bucky - so no matter what avenue you took you’d still learn it simply cause you have that staying power.

This I agree with. You could probably just use conventional grammar books and flashcards and eventually get there as long as you stick with it and aren't too shy to talk to native speakers. Persistence and the willingness to actually talk to people in Russian are definitely the most important thing.

Nevertheless, I remember how much effort it took just to memorize and pronounce the word пожалуйста when I first attempted to learn Russian. My point with Pimsleur is that it's not "shit for Russian" as some have claimed here and it works very well, again, IF YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS. Still no one who has claimed it's a bad program has replied that they actually followed the instructions, and I agree that it's useless if you don't (skipping days, combining it with other materials). Like I said, I had several colleagues who claimed Pimsleur was terrible, but they admitted to skipping days, and they never managed to learn the language well anyway.

How fast were you able to get to a basic conversational level with Russian Accelerator? By basic conversational I mean able to introduce yourself, ask directions, order things in restaurants, do a simple approach with a receptive girl, and understand most of what native speakers said to you in reply. I find that getting to that basic level in a foreign language is the hardest thing, and I still strongly doubt there's anything better for that than Pimsleur. Once you're at that basic level you just keep working at it every day and you get proficient in the language eventually (usually takes a year or so for me, depending on the difficultly of the language).

Post: #49

Bucky I did pimsleur. Every day. I didn't skip. I didn't use anything else. You're missing the point.

My point isn't that pimsleur was hard tonassimilate.

My point was that even if one was to perfectly memorize and learn everything in pimsleur, it's not a good program compared to it's length.

No past tense iirc no informal ti and an awkward selection of phrases to teach and learn already make it inferior to Michel Thomas for one.

Pimsleur gets you to a travel language phrasebook level. That's a poor return for 3 monthes imo.

For example, if you learn how to conjugate verbs, and are using Anki to memorize verbs, you now have access to thousands of words.
If you learn the very simple past construction, again you have access to thousands of words. And that's if you read one page of grammar.

Tools like memrize and Anki are better for vocabulary too because seeing how word is written is very helpful. So many words and phrases turned out to be different than what I thought. Although I guess transcripts are available

Yes infants learn by picking up the language around them. But that's not a logical argument because it doesn't mean it's the most efficient way. Infants are exposed to this all day for years and end up picking it up, yes.
But whennsomeone actually actively learns a language in school for example he picks it up faster if you compare the time invested.

Anyway I'm simply hammering and repeating myself at thisnpoint.
My experience was different than yours, but I actually tried the other ways so wanted the beginners to avoid my waste of time.

Post: #50

(11-02-2017 02:06 PM)Dirkus Wrote:  You don't say "I like guitar" in Russian - you literally say "To me is pleasing guitar" (mne nrahvitsa guitara). Pimsleur will never explain that to you.

I think it's been said before, but knowing Spanish can help with Russian.

There's a lot of sentences that are translated differently between English and Russian but are easier to grasp if you use Spanish.

This is especially true for the many indirect constructions that take the dative case in Russian:

Мне нравится = Me gusta = "It pleases me" (I like)

Мне нужно = Me hace falta = "It is needed by me" (I need)

English speakers sometimes find these sentences tricky due to them being indirect instead of having a clear subject + verb + object:

Мне нравится Россия = "Россия" is the subject who does the "linking" on the object ("мне")

I like Russia = Here the subject is "I" and "Russia" is actually the object.

(10-30-2017 02:19 PM)potential1 Wrote:  Anyone got any thoughts on learning the cases? What importance do you attach to it? The reason I ask is that whenever I have a lesson, the whole thing often seems to be bogged down with minute details of the cases.

Russian teachers seem to have decided that the cases are the most important thing. But seeing as I only want Russian for social situations, I always feel like it's not that important at my stage of learning - I just want more useful phrases and vocabulary to help me make myself understood. If I say vrach or vrachom doesn't seem that vital at my early stage of learning.

Obviously I hope to master it, but it feels like the kind of thing that could be picked up and perfected further down the road.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible for non-slavs to just "pick up" the case endings naturally over time without individual study of the grammar.

The reason why teachers emphasize case endings is because they are "unavoidable" - they are used to convey meaning due to the lack of articles in Russian. In most grammar tables you'll see how each case is meant to "answer" certain questions:

e.g. Родительный падеж (genitive case) = (кого?, чего?)

Everynow and then, native speakers will doubt about the use of a noun in a certain context and recite the appropiate questions to know what case to use. If you think about it, it's also normal that teachers want their students to learn how to speak properly instead of "broken" Russian.

Also if you boil it down, there's only 2 ways of making progress in a language:

1) Learning new words
2) Making less mistakes (using correctly what you already know)

You can always learn new vocab through grammar exercises but you can't really learn much grammar through vocab alone.