Post: #126

(09-11-2011 02:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(09-11-2011 01:50 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  There has been no proven incidents of present/recent 1st world democratic countries planning and killing thousands of its own citizens.

Hitler did it in Germany. He killed German citizens. That was about 70 years ago. Historically speaking, this is very recent.

Milosovich did it in Yugoslavia. That was 15 years ago.

You can't say these are bad examples. This stuff happened in Europe very recently.

Germany under the rule of Hitler was a dictatorship communist country.....

Same with Yugoslavia if my memory serves me correct.

Post: #127

"I know, you want modern, 1st world examples. I gave you two, Germany and Yugoslavia."

I will add two more:

Spain
Italy

Dash -

"Germany under the rule of Hitler was a dictatorship communist country....."

Where did you study all this "history"?

North Carolina Tech Community College at Raleigh?

Case closed on Dash.

Post: #128

(09-11-2011 02:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  roosh,

history is about the only subject in school i liked.

Right, so what you do "know" about history has come from what you've learned from school textbooks, which means you don't really "know" anything.

Post: #129

(09-11-2011 02:31 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  Germany under the rule of Hitler was a dictatorship communist country.....

Same with Yugoslavia if my memory serves me correct.

Just because they were not "democracies" doesn't mean its not possible here. Some people question if the US is even a "democracy" anymore. The leaders who get "elected" are funded, supported and groomed by big business. A third party candidate cant even get on TV or participate in the debates. That is not very "democratic". Its not like "the people" are choosing who they want. Shit, 70% of "the people" don't even vote.

Democracy, Socialist, or Communist....they are all capable of killing innocent people to further their interests.

Post: #130

G,

dictatorship - A government controlled by one person, or a small group of people. In this form of government the power rests entirely on the person or group of people, and can be obtained by force or by inheritance. The dictator(s) may also take away much of its peoples' freedom.

so you are saying nazi germany was not a dictatorship?!?!

Post: #131

(09-11-2011 02:43 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(09-11-2011 02:31 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  Germany under the rule of Hitler was a dictatorship communist country.....

Same with Yugoslavia if my memory serves me correct.

Just because they were not "democracies" doesn't mean its not possible in a "democracy". Some people question if the US is even a "democracy" anymore. The leaders who get "elected" are funded, supported and groomed by big business. A third party candidate cant even get on TV or participate in the debates. That is not very "democratic". Its not like "the people" are choosing who they want. Shit, 70% of "the people" don't even vote.

Democracy, Socialist, or Communist....they are all capable of killing innocent people to further their interests.

Ovcourse they are capable. Anything is possible.

I said show me proven evidence (not conspiracy theories) of a present day 1st world democratic government killing thousands of its own innocent citizens.

Im still waiting...

Post: #132

(09-11-2011 02:46 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  G,

dictatorship - A government controlled by one person, or a small group of people. In this form of government the power rests entirely on the person or group of people, and can be obtained by force or by inheritance. The dictator(s) may also take away much of its peoples' freedom.

so you are saying nazi germany was not a dictatorship?!?!

Dash -

It is hilarious you still don't realize what is wrong with your statement:

"Germany under the rule of Hitler was a dictatorship communist country....."

It is probably not to late to crash some basic history courses at North Carolina ITT Comminity College at Fayetteville.

Let's continue the discussion after that.

Post: #133

(09-11-2011 02:46 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  dictatorship - A government controlled by one person, or a small group of people. In this form of government the power rests entirely on the person or group of people, and can be obtained by force or by inheritance. The dictator(s) may also take away much of its peoples' freedom.

so you are saying nazi germany was not a dictatorship?!?!

Obviously, Germany was a dictatorship.

But that doesn't prove anything. A democratic government can also use dirty tricks and espionage to advance its agenda. It will just happen behind the scenes or disguised as something else.

A dictator can just do whatever it wants.

A democracy has to be sneaky about it.

I think we probably knew about the 9/11 plan and we allowed it to happen.

Is that really that hard to believe?

Especially, since you are student of history and you know this kind of stuff has been going on for centuries..

Post: #134

Where in the Nine Hells did you dig out Yugoslavia from? I find it extremely hard to link anything about it with conspiracy theories (or governments killing their own people), and I have lived there since the time of the old country. We've never had the murderous stallinist system with gulags, stealthy executions and etc, and economically the country enjoyed very high growth rates for decades, also having high standing in the world diplomacy and having founded the Independent Bloc with India, Egypt and etc.

Then there was the breakup of Yugoslavia together with the rest of Communism, and war, of course, but none of those were conspiracy theories or plots either, just good old fashioned rabble let loose one upon another and series of bad decisions by ultra-nationalist leaders.

As for you guys insisting on 9/11 conspiracy theories, let me ask you this: If the US government had no problem orchestrating the murder of 3000 of its own innocent citizens, why are any of you "truthers" still alive? A government capable of planning such acts would certainly have no problem disposing of any dissenters quickly, as we can see from many detestable regimes around the world.

Post: #135

G,

What I said was in reference to a one person / one party rule. Which is true for both a dictatorship and a communist state. Which one someone believes is irrelevant as Germany was certainly not a democracy.

Giovanny,

Im still waiting on that proven evidence (not conspiracy theories) of a present day 1st world democratic government killing thousands of its own innocent citizens....

Post: #136

(09-11-2011 03:09 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  Im still waiting on that proven evidence (not conspiracy theories) of a present day 1st world democratic government killing thousands of its own innocent citizens....

The American Civil War. Democratically elected people trying to kill each other for power and control.

I have given you many examples. Some were socialist, some were communist, some fascist, some were dictators, some were tribal leaders, some were elected by the people.

No political system is immune from the evils of greed, power, and control.

If it happened in Europe, and it happened Asia, and it happened it Africa, and it happened in South America, how can you be surprised that it might happen in North America.

Post: #137

(09-11-2011 03:15 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(09-11-2011 02:55 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  I said show me proven evidence (not conspiracy theories) of a present day 1st world democratic government killing thousands of its own innocent citizens.

Im still waiting...

The American Civil War. Democratically elected people trying to kill each other.

I have given you many examples. Some were socialist, some were communist, some fascist, some were dictators, some were tribal leaders, some were elected by the people.

No political system is immune from the evils of greed, power, and control.

I think you missed the "present day" part.....

On top of that it was a WAR. not comparable.

All you have done is give me examples of EVERYTHING but what I asked for.

Post: #138

(09-11-2011 02:28 PM)jariel Wrote:  What you're saying contradicts the direct statement made by Hillary Clinton on national television last year.

No it does not. Clinton says that we supported at one time, the people we are fighting now. When we supported them, their enemies were the Soviets, not us. Their enemy now is no longer the Soviet Union since they don't exist, it's now us, Israel and moderate Muslim governments. Their focus changed. This isn't uncommon in history. We once allied with Stalin and then after Hitler was defeated, Stalin became our worst enemy. Alliances often shift, when has this NOT been routine throughout history?

Quote:The West (this includes the U.S. btw) just used Al-Qaeda to overthrow Gadahfi.

The fact is depending on the issue, Al-Qaeda is either an enemy or an asset.

You'll have to post a link on the Al-Queda/Libya thing. I'm not familiar with this or what our specific role is in what you claim here.

Post: #139

Dash, you've exhibited the least amount of knowledge of anybody that's entered into this discussion, so no one really has to prove anything to you, especially since everyone who's responded to you, you've found some bullshit way to refute whatever they've said.

Speak, I appreciate that you've at least had the integrity to say, hey I don't know about that, this other dude could have just admitted he didn't know shit, instead of trying to participate in a debate that's way above his pay grade.

Here's a few links:

http://nation.foxnews.com/libya-war/2011...aeda-libya

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-government-b...nside-u-s/

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa...33798.html

Post: #140

jariel,

Is that the excuse everyone uses when they cant / dont have an answer or rebuttle?

Ive only had two issues in this thread.

1) unless you have a mind reading machine there is no way for you to know for a fact why we went to war.
2) proven evidence (not conspiracy theories) of a present day 1st world democratic government killing thousands of its own innocent citizens.

Its ok, I knew no one would be able to provide me with proven evidence (not conspiracy theories) of a present day 1st world democratic government killing thousands of its own innocent citizens.

Ill keep an eye on the thread to see if anyone came come with the goods.

Im not gonna hold my breathe......

Post: #141

(09-11-2011 12:32 PM)haywire Wrote:  "Out of all other angles, reasons and perspectives, the one that I think stands out the most is that the towers would NEVER have fallen in the first place due to the planes colliding into the towers - the maximum heat generated in that process was no more than 800F while the melting point of steel is 2750F! And even if the towers were to collapse due to the melting steel, first the top part would have "fallen over" instead of the entire structure turning into dust within a few seconds"

You do know that steel gets weaker when it heats, even if it doesn't reach the melting point, right? Steel loses up to 50% of its strength at 1100F. The claim that the maximum heat was 800F simply isn't true--the strongest of the fires burned at 1800F. The fires burned for a prolonged period and weakened the steel to the point of structural failure. The steel doesn't need to melt for this to happen.

Most high-rises have a concrete inner core or concrete-encased outer columns. Sometimes both. WTC had neither. The foam fireproofing protecting the steel columns and trusses were blown off during the impact. Several perimeter and core columns were severed, and many damaged. The floor trusses weaken and start to sag and pull on the core and perimeter columns. The perimeter columns were weakened by the fire, and began to bow inward because of the sagging. The bowing continues until the perimeter columns snap. The upper part of the tower fell, striking the lower part. The lower part of the tower simply couldn't absorb all the energy falling onto it, causing the progressive "pancake collapse" that all truthers insist was a controlled demolition.

Giovanny Wrote:I think we probably knew about the 9/11 plan and we allowed it to happen.

Yeah, I could see this. Either they dropped the ball, didn't care, or used it as an excuse. The evidence doesn't point to a demolition, though. I don't know why people are still spreading it. There isn't even any sound or explosions from the supposed charges in all the 9/11 film.

Post: #142

(09-11-2011 03:16 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  All you have done is give me examples of EVERYTHING but what I asked for.

I have given you examples of people being slaughtered by their governments. The examples have come from all over the world. All races of people. All kinds of political systems. All within the last 100 years.

You say, they are not recent, or, they are not democratic, or they were not present day, 1st world governments...

Maybe it hasn't happened in a present day, democratic, 1st world government?

That doesn't mean that it can't happen. That doesn't mean that present day, democratic, 1st world, governments are immune to this stype of stuff.

Present day, 1st world, democratic governments certainly have no problem bankrupting their own people, feeding them food filled with cancer causing ingredients, then using pharmaceutical drugs to treat the health problems that this food causes. And the whole thing is set up rich people profit from this. Okay, maybe this is just the USA.

If you know anything about history or human nature. You know that if it happens in the north, and it happens in the south, and it happens in the east, don't be surprised when it happens in the west.

Maybe they just haven't been caught yet.

Shit, half the people in America believe that we had something to do with 9/11.

Maybe the answer to your question is....The USA.....but I won't say that because I can't prove it.

However, when you look at the evidence, its is definitely hard to say exactly what happened.

Post: #143

Giovanny

Im not saying it cant happen. Anything can happen.

All im saying is there is no proof of it happening in our present day 1st world democratic countries.

Post: #144

I can't prove that the government knew about 9/11

And, you can't prove that the government is innocent.

So, neither one of is can prove our point.

All we can do is look at the evidence. At this point the evidence is conflicting.

Post: #145

Here is some evidence for you.

The healthcare industry is heavily invested in fast food and tobacco industries. Of course, when they get sick, who do they go to? To the healthcare industry. They make money from peoples sickness and obesity.

You would think that the healthcare industry would be trying to improve peoples diets and get them to quit smoking. But, the exact opposite is true. They are giving people shitty food, encouraging them to smoke, making them sick, and profiting from it.

One could argue that this is basically killing people for profit.

And, yes this is happening in the USA today.

Read these articles:

From CNN

Healthcare+Tabacco+Fast food=$$$

Post: #146

Hitler was not a dictator, he was elected by the people.


Only afterwards did he seize control of Germany. That's some history for the D-man. The letter D, probably your grade in history class.


Also, D-man, just google "modern genocide" for some examples of 1st world countries slaughtering millions. Germany was a first world nation that butchered millions, by the way.



God, I can't even believe this debate is happening. Massacres of innocent people has been happening forever.

Post: #147

Giovanny,

Im not sure how someone else could prove an event didnt take place other than the simple fact that there is no evidence proving the said action occurred?

It seems to me the onus is on the people claiming it has happened to provide the proof. i could be wrong though....

Samsea,

Nice try but I never specified when Germany became a dictatorship aka Anyone that knows history knows Hilter was elected by the people then turned Germany into the Nazi Dictatorship that we all know.

So with that said im not sure what ur point is lol

I appreciate the effort though

Post: #148

Dash -

"Germany under the rule of Hitler was a dictatorship communist country....."

You think Hitler was communist.

Debating with you is like debating with the village idiot.

Post: #149

G,

You must have missed the post where I specified what I meant when I said "Germany under the rule of Hitler was a dictatorship communist country....."

Hilter being a communist certainly wasnt it.....

Unless you can quote where I specifically said Hitler was a communist.

If not then you must be able to read minds!

Post: #150

(09-11-2011 04:48 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Dash -

"Germany under the rule of Hitler was a dictatorship communist country....."

You think Hitler was communist.

Debating with you is like debating with the village idiot.

Ya, real students of history know that nazism means national socialism.

Dude has no credibility, it's not too difficult to see why dude is in South Korea teaching English.