Post: #26

(09-05-2017 07:57 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  Cop is unequivocally in the wrong. She calmly explained why the cops request was illegal and she got arrested.

Why did he want the damn blood so badly? Based on what the (WNB) nurse said it would've likely been inadmissible in court anyway.

They were engaging in a high speed pursuit that resulted in a suspect dead, an 18 wheeler destroyed, and the driver horrifically injured. They can be sued for that (by the suspects family and the innocent driver he ran into). If they can find evidence the guy had joint last week, suddenly it's the truck driver's fault that he couldn't avoid the collision, not the cops.

Post: #27

(09-06-2017 02:55 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  They were engaging in a high speed pursuit that resulted in a suspect dead, an 18 wheeler destroyed, and the driver horrifically injured. They can be sued for that (by the suspects family and the innocent driver he ran into). If they can find evidence the guy had joint last week, suddenly it's the truck driver's fault that he couldn't avoid the collision, not the cops.

This is what is largely going unspoken, that they obviously wanted to sabotage an innocent accident victim's impending lawsuit against their department.

...and to do it, they got orders from a superior to illegally extract his blood without his consent in violation of federal statute and case law, even dragging a nurse away in handcuffs to make it happen.

If that ends up going before a judge, they're going to get screwed in holes they don't even know they have yet.

Post: #28

Mayor decries. Police chief denounces or calls for investigation. In severe cases cop is given paid vacation and often when he arrives back is quietly reinstated or even promoted.

The typical outcomes always seems to puzzle people, but not if you understand authoritarian democracy.

The higher-ups are all politicians in practice. They want their attack-dogs to have sharp teeth and ask no questions when it comes time to bite, but they also have to keep up appearances. That's why they will wail and gnash their teeth for the cameras yet quietly make sure that officer Ruffstuff gets no real punishment and maybe even gets rewarded.

Post: #29

(09-06-2017 03:13 PM)Jetset Wrote:  If that ends up going before a judge, they're going to get screwed in holes they don't even know they have yet.

Post: #30

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/...fired.html

Utah officer who handcuffed nurse is fired

Quote:Salt Lake City police chief made the decision after an internal investigation found evidence the police officer violated department policies when he arrested the nurse and dragged her out of the hospital as she screamed, a spokesperson said.

A Utah police officer was fired Tuesday after being seen on video roughly handcuffing a nurse because she refused to allow a blood draw in an incident that became a flashpoint in the national conversation about use of force.

Salt Lake City Police Chief Mike Brown made the decision to fire Detective Jeff Payne after an internal investigation found he violated department policies when he arrested nurse Alex Wubbels and dragged her screaming from the hospital, department spokesperson Sgt. Brandon Shearer said.

Brown said in a disciplinary letter that he was “deeply troubled” by Payne’s conduct, which he described as “inappropriate, unreasonable, unwarranted, discourteous, disrespectful” and said brought “significant disrepute” on the department.

“You demonstrated extremely poor professional judgment (especially for an officer with 27 years of experience), which calls into question your ability to effectively serve the public and the department,” Brown wrote.

Attorney Greg Skordas, who represents Payne, said his client plans to appeal a firing he considers unfair and over the top. Skordas said Payne would still be employed if the body camera footage hadn’t generated so much attention and blown the events out of proportion.

Payne’s supervisor, Lt. James Tracy, was demoted to officer. His lawyer, Ed Brass, couldn’t immediately be reached.

Tracy made an impulsive decision in ordering Payne to arrest Wubbels without first taking time to understand the facts of the situation and the law, Brown wrote in his disciplinary letter.

He said the order created chaos and unnecessarily escalated the situation.

“Your lack of judgment and leadership in this matter is unacceptable, and as a result, I no longer believe that you can retain a leadership position in the department,” Brown said.

The letter said Wubbels told investigators that Tracy minimized her concerns, intimidated and lectured her, and made her feel like she was to blame for the events.

The Associated Press obtained the disciplinary letters for Payne and Tracy through a public records request.

Wubbels’ attorney, Karra Porter, said they are pleased that Brown took action and recognized that the officers made crucial mistakes that have eroded public trust. Porter said she hopes the events are a catalyst to more public conversations about appropriate police behaviour.

The case shows the vital importance of officers wearing body cameras and making those videos available to the public, Porter said.

“Without the body camera footage, it would have been a she-said, they-said,” Porter said. “Alex feels very strongly that her story would have never been told if it weren’t for the body camera footage.”

Asked about a potential lawsuit, Porter said she expects to meet soon with city officials to discuss next steps that could include settlement talks.

The officers have five business days to appeal the decisions by the chief.

The case received widespread attention after police body-camera video was released by Wubbels and her lawyer in late August.

The video showed her explaining that hospital policy required a warrant or formal consent to draw blood from the patient who had been injured in a car crash.

The patient wasn’t suspected of wrongdoing. He was an off-duty reserve Idaho police officer driving a semi-trailer when he was hit by a man fleeing police in a pickup truck.

Payne nevertheless insisted on the blood draw, saying the evidence would protect the man.

Payne told Wubbels his supervisor said he should arrest her if she didn’t allow the draw. Wubbels was later freed from the handcuffs and has not been charged.

Both officers were investigated and placed on paid administrative leave after the video became public. Salt Lake City police apologized and changed their policies.

Prosecutors, meanwhile, opened a criminal investigation into the arrest and asked the FBI to determine if there were any civil rights violations.

Payne was also fired from a part-time job as a paramedic after he was caught on camera saying he’d take transient patients to the University of Utah hospital where Wubbels worked and transport “good patients” elsewhere.

Payne had previously been disciplined in 2013 after internal-affairs investigators confirmed that he sexually harassed a female co-worker in a “persistent and severe” way.

His tenure also brought commendations for solving burglary cases and being shot in the shoulder during a traffic stop in 1998.

Tracy, meanwhile, earned commendations for drug and burglary investigations.

Post: #31

(10-10-2017 10:25 PM)Suits Wrote:  

Quote:...
Attorney Greg Skordas, who represents Payne, said his client plans to appeal a firing he considers unfair and over the top. Skordas said Payne would still be employed if the body camera footage hadn’t generated so much attention and blown the events out of proportion.
...

Or in other words, "and we would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling cameras!"



Plot twist. They unmask the man and find *dramatic pause* a monster!

Post: #32

(10-10-2017 10:25 PM)Suits Wrote:  https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/...fired.html

Utah officer who handcuffed nurse is fired

Good, he was a liability and a hothead.

Post: #33

Shout out to RoastBeefCurtains, Goldin Boy, puckerman and Leonardo who all correctly predicted how this would end for the cop!

(09-05-2017 03:38 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Medateline='1504643929' Wrote:  The cop will get a note in his file, and will get a promotion as soon as the lawsuit and the settlement have blown over.

(09-05-2017 07:57 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  This detective is going to get a paid vacation, aka administrative leave, while this thing blows over.

(09-06-2017 01:02 AM)puckerman Wrote:  Nothing will happen to the police officers. They got paid vacations out of this. Why would they complain?

(09-07-2017 02:09 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Mayor decries. Police chief denounces or calls for investigation. In severe cases cop is given paid vacation and often when he arrives back is quietly reinstated or even promoted.

Post: #34

In many jurisdictions, this cop will be permitted to appeal his termination to a review board mostly comprised of cops or others closely associated with the police. They can still reinstate him and give him back pay.

Post: #35

I am pleasantly surprised that he was fired. I suspect it will be appealed though.

Every state should set up an independent committee with the absolute power to suspend and fire cops.

Post: #36

(10-11-2017 11:39 PM)puckerman Wrote:  I am pleasantly surprised that he was fired. I suspect it will be appealed though.

Every state should set up an independent committee with the absolute power to suspend and fire cops.

Once I saw the video, I hesitantly expected him to either resign or be fired. It's one of those tough cases, because he was technically "following orders," but the optics could hardly be worse if he'd shot the nurse.

It was perfectly reasonable to predict that he wouldn't be fired, because the police have proven time and time again that they have a culture of believing that they are above the law.

In this case, I see him of just another product of that culture, as there are no shortage of cops that routinely trample over people's legal rights and basic human decency. Most of those cops just haven't been caught on camera yet. And most probably lack the self-awareness to even know when they've mentally crossed the line into believing that any action they take is justified, because after all, they are the good guys.

It's his own damn fault, however, because when he swore an oath to uphold various constitutions and laws, it was his obligation to commit himself to not becoming one of the bad guys and give himself frequent ego checks.

However, most cops aren't philosophers with strongly developed self-assessment skills.

The police have very broad powers to detail people for many reasons and in many cases, those people are never actually charged with a crime or formally arrested.

A part of me wants to suggest that arresting or detaining someone with pressing charges that aren't immediately thrown out by a judge should automatically result in a charge of assault and/or false imprisonment, but obviously that would needlessly handcuff the police in their ability to protect us.

But there needs to be some sort of consequence when the police arrest someone without justification.

Post: #37

I want to know why he was so keen to get the crash victim's blood.
I wonder if he can threaten the management by saying it was they who demanded the blood to avoid litigation from the victim's family.

Post: #38

(10-11-2017 06:31 PM)Suits Wrote:  Shout out to ... Leonardo who all correctly predicted how this would end for the cop!

...

(09-07-2017 02:09 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Mayor decries. Police chief denounces or calls for investigation. In severe cases cop is given paid vacation and often when he arrives back is quietly reinstated or even promoted.

Playing the odds doesn't always mean winning.

Post: #39

(10-11-2017 06:31 PM)Suits Wrote:  Shout out to RoastBeefCurtains, Goldin Boy, puckerman and Leonardo who all correctly predicted how this would end for the cop!

I'd say the officer has an even chance of winning reinstatement on appeal, because it was his Lt who told him to do it. He was following orders.

Post: #40

(10-12-2017 09:00 AM)C-Note Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 06:31 PM)Suits Wrote:  Shout out to RoastBeefCurtains, Goldin Boy, puckerman and Leonardo who all correctly predicted how this would end for the cop!

I'd say the officer has an even chance of winning reinstatement on appeal, because it was his Lt who told him to do it. He was following orders.

Yes, this possibility remains on the table.

Of course, if it is determined that he acted criminally, that defense won't stand up.

Post: #41

(10-11-2017 11:39 PM)puckerman Wrote:  I am pleasantly surprised that he was fired. I suspect it will be appealed though.

Every state should set up an independent committee with the absolute power to suspend and fire cops.

Ultimately this is the main issue with cop brutality. Some states, cities, and counties have better procedures and checks and balances in place than others have.

There is a reason certain cities have not come up on the brutality scandal roulette table.

Another factor to consider is that some cities have diverse cops that police their own hometown neighborhoods and tend to handle the people there alot better than others that live across town or in other counties. It's no secrecy that black cops usually do better with black people or have better rapport.

But not all places in America has the demographics or the laws to support that model. It will continue to be an issue for the foreseeable future.

Post: #42

The nurse just got a $500K payday.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/...-500k.html

Post: #43

Cha-CHING!