Post: #26

In addition to everything already said, the key is to have a plan, and be prepared to implement it at a moment's notice.

- Know EXACTLY what to do, what to grab, where to go, and what route(s) you're going to take to get there.

- Guns & ammo.. not much to add to the above, what I would say is that if you don't own a weapon of any kind, get one. Shotguns and rifles are fairly easy to get, in many states you can walk in and walk out with one of the above (the salesman does a background check while you wait). When it comes to ammo, 12 gauge and .22 is cheap enough (still). I do recommend picking up a box or two every time you go to the local Walmart. Stock up. Pay cash for the ammo.

- Have a 'Bug Out Bag' (BOB) ready to go. Pack a few changes of clothes, some toiletries, etc.

When I was married, I used to have a pop up camper. Many times we would decide on a Friday afternoon to go camping at ____. The ex would grab the suitcase/BOB, the two Rubbermaid containers with the linens, and a handful of canned food while I hooked up the camper. Usually we were on the road within 15 minutes of deciding to go camping, and most of those 15 minutes were spent hooking up the trailer.
I've since gotten rid of the camper, but still implement the BOB today. Sometimes the kids and I go to the waterpark overnight, so that bag is always packed (and grabbing that bag is my son's job now).

- Rotate your canned stock, and have the cans with the date furthest out in your BOB (or an additional bag). Cycle the BOB cans back into regular stock when you go shopping again, and put the new cans with the latest date in the BOB.

- Have a medical bag on hand. Neosporin, Witch Hazel, baking soda, bandages, tweezers, needle and thread, magnifying glass, q-tips, hydrogen peroxide, isopropyl alcohol, calamine lotion, soothing gel (for burns), SUNSCREEN, ibuprofen, syringes.. some of these things will be used by you, other things can be traded or bartered for supplies or services that you may need.

- Keep at least a half tank of gas in your car/truck, the more the better. There will be a run on gas stations, a lot of people won't be prepared when the shit finally does hit the fan.

Once you've got all that stuff in place... practice it. This cannot be stated enough.

Sure, you've got your plan, but make sure it's doable, and actually do it a few times as sort of a 'dry run'. Have your technique down pat, so that when a conflict does break out, your brain switches to automatic, and you get it done. So practice.. time yourself how long it takes to load up and be ready to depart. If you've already got your BOB(s) ready to go (as you should), loading up the vehicle should take less than a couple of minutes.

Get in the car, and (assuming you have a remote location to go to), drive to it. Take some of the back roads. Learn the shortcuts. Learn the heavily populated areas. Learn where the supermarkets are, the gas stations, the pharmacies, etc.

And plan your route(s) to avoid them, as there will be masses of people at these places once things go down. You won't need to stop at any of those places, because you're already stocked up with what you need.

As far as how many different routes to your final destination, know ALL of them. Not one alternate route, not "Three should be enough". Every. Possible. Route. Sure, Ridge Road might get you to your safe house in the fastest and shortest time, but if Ridge is closed just past Green Street, where do you go from there ? Smith Street is blocked off, and they're doing construction to the bridge on West Avenue, so that's closed.. now what ?

Know every possible way there is to get to your safe house. And know it before you're in a position where you have to drive it. The multiple routes need to be ingrained to the point where you don't have to think about it.

Post: #27

I think I'd want a gang of hardened manlet assassins. At least 6. Each outfitted with his own combat pistol and black rifle. Transportation would be a pair of late 90s 4runners.

Post: #28

Having a .22 / .22 LR gun was a tip I picked up from a tactical survival book.

Also 100 deadly skills : Survival edition by Clint Emerson is a very good book.

Post: #29

I come from a large family that has a history of survivalist/prepper mentality. We were never fanatical about it, but it was treated as a primary hobby. This was all started by my father who was unnerved by the civil unrest of the 60s. This may be a bit random and some of it will be redundant to other members posts, but these are some things I've learned over the years.

The single most important thing is being with a group of men that you can trust absolutely. Those relationships must be forged ahead of time. After the shit hits the fan, anyone who comes along must be viewed with high suspicion. A strong group who obviously have their shit together will be highly attractive to both men and women. You can't trust them.

Know your enemy. Identify your enemy. Know his strengths, his weakness. What he believes in. Put yourself in his shoes and try to determine how he will react to any given situation, then adjust your plan accordingly.

Safe House If at all possible, have a safe house ahead of time and have a plan to get there. Have a back up plan. Have a back up to the back up plan. Pre-think contingencies. In the American west, cabins can be had pretty cheaply, if you have the right connections, even for free (which is how I acquired mine). When the shit is not hitting the fan, these can be used recreationally. Preposition anything and everything you can at this safe house, but when choosing a cabin like this, keep three things in mind-

1. Water and food supply. Ideally right next to some water either a lake or stream. This will also bring game (i.e. mobile food) nearby as everything needs water. Water is also needed to grow food.

2. Defensibility. My cabin is nestled in a narrow valley surrounded on three sides by high mountains, leaving only one, easily defensible way in. it also has an easy egress route, should that be necessary.

3. Remoteness. In my opinion the more remote, the better. It has it's drawbacks, but in this scenario, your fellow humans are by far the most dangerous thing you will encounter. Avoid them as much as possible.

Weapons A variety of weapons is desirable, because just like any other tool, they are designed for different tasks. Military style firearms are designed for going against other humans, but usually aren't great when hunting big game and can explode smaller game...such as rabbits...making them worthless for eating. Basic recommendations- AR-15, 12 ga, shotgun, .22 rifle. Those three will allow any basic situations that you need, defense and the hunting of small game and birds. In addition to stockpiling ammo, don't forget to stock spare parts and plenty of cleaning gear. Your life depends on these tools, treat them with the respect they deserve.

Other good options- A bolt action hunting rifle for hunting larger game. A large caliber handgun. A bow or crossbow(Crossbows are currently illegal for hunting in the USA)

Again different tools for different jobs. The bow or crossbow can be great for two reasons; silence and the ability to reuse the arrows/bolts (most of the time). That saves ammo and not only keeps you stealthy from humans, but also doesn't scare other game away.

One recommendation on all guns- keep all your rifles in caliber 7.62x54 or 5.56 NATO. These calibers will always be available in the USA. Sure, you may have a .300 WinMag and yes, it's an awesome round, but when your stock of ammo dries up...what then? Reloading is a good thing, but it is limited. Where do you get powder? Primers? Those will dry up instantly after the SHF.
If you already have stocks, great. However, powder has a limited shelf life if not stored exactly correctly and the equipment needed can be bulky and not highly portable. It has it's place for sure, but some real drawbacks.

Growing food You need heirloom seeds. Regular seeds you get from your local store are sterile and will only give you one year of crops. Make sure you are getting non sterilized seeds. Grow a variety of vegetables and fruits. Research your geographical location and find out what grows best there. No sense in planting watermelons in most locals. Plant fruit trees on your safe house property now. They take several years to develop and start producing fruit. Learn how to can and make sure you have all necessary tools and equipment.

[b]Livestock[/b] That fat juicy cow is just standing there and you and your tribe are hungry. DON'T SHOOT IT. That is a great way to make a quick and potentially very powerful enemy. Ranchers are rightly quick to protect their property. On the other hand, ranchers like everything else on their property killed. Every living thing on their ranch is competition for their cows. Rabbits dig burrows that cows break their legs in. Rattlesnakes bite cows, coyotes chase them down and even rip calves out of their mothers wombs. Antelope and deer compete for food and water. This gives you a legit opening to make an ally with a rancher. You kill every living thing that isn't a cow and he may let you have a cow or two to get you through the winter. Keep in mind, in this scenario, the law won't matter too much and these animals are also your competition and food.

Raising your own livestock Unless you have extensive experience at this, I don't recommend jumping right in. It can be grueling and extremely involved. Chicken are about the only exception. They are fairly low maintenance and have the additional benefit of laying eggs. Predators will be your number one concern with them (see above). Make sure that the dominant rooster is protected, he will not only ensure future generations, but will protect his hens, often quite successfully. Again, kill all predators, they are your competition.

Have something to barter with As mentioned already, women always have something to barter. Men have it a bit different. Trade goods can come in many forms. Food, drugs of all kinds, skills in a host of fields and much more. One of the best is alcohol. Not only do people still want to get a buzz when TSHT, but it is also an anesthetic and antiseptic. Stocking up on cheap vodka is a good route to go and you may want to learn how to make your own. Making alcohol is almost entirely illegal at the moment, so don't be dumb.

Vehicles Choose a 4x4 and something that is very common. A Porsche won't do you much good in this situation, excepting maybe as barter. A common truck won't draw as much attention and parts will be easier to find. Also have spares and know how to do proper maintenance.

Fuel Have a source. Choose your source ahead of time and know where to find more. This goes beyond vehicles. So you have a propane powered grill? Great! Where will you get more propane when that runs out? Depending on a lot of variables, you may be able to get some, but a back up plan is in order. Locate wood or in some areas of the world, coal. Have the tools and the know-how to cut and season wood. Have some propositioned. You have a chainsaw? Great! Where are you getting gasoline for it? Have multiple axes and saws handy. Be ready to work your ass off.

Much of this doesn't much apply to guys whose plan is to stay in the cities and sorry for that. This is based on me and my tribes plan, which I happen to believe is a pretty good one. I have more, but will save that for later, I've got some chores to catch up on.

Edit; More detail

Post: #30

I personally camped out in winter for 2 weeks, but we had provisions.

I also know an older man who fled from the communists in the 1980s. He trekked alone via the Eastern border which is relatively unguarded even then and then spent 6 months in the Finnish woods. He did not need much winter-gear since that ordeal. But he found some shack and other deserted buildings normally. You can survive long stretches without food if you have some fat reserves. He is a tough old geezer for sure, but many man have a similar constitution.

But frankly all this hunkering down and defensive maneuvers are only short-term. This is just a preliminary procedure and nothing more - certainly not something I would plan on doing for years or even more than 6 months.

You either join one side or you disappear from the problem area. Plenty of men who spent WWII fucking broads on luxury yachts - Jewish and German.

Post: #31

Remember that gas powered vehicles will be useless in a SHTF scenario.

Gas breaks down over three to five months in a sealed container. Diesel trucks and cars are far more functional as diesel is an oil and lasts a lot longer.

Try to avoid diesel vehicles that use urea for emissions. Obviously hard to come by if supply lines are cut and the stupid computer will leave you stranded even with a full tank.

I'd rather just set up a ranch with horses. Live like it's 1885. Canning, preserving meats, etc. My wife is very interested in learning how to do this. Worthwhile delegating tasks out like that.

Post: #32

(08-15-2017 12:58 PM)Roosh Wrote:  It won't be practical for us to go full-prepper, especially since most of us live in cities, so I think the best strategy is to (1) assemble trusted men, (2) develop their areas of expertise in peacetime, and (3) be ready to go full-prep when the writing is on the wall. I want to have a discussion with you guys here so I can publish a guide in the future for everyone to follow.

Community is survival. To see what works best you need to look to those who have done it successfully, I am talking about Army SF aka Green Berets. As in the thread title the most common unit is the "A-Team" led by an Army Captain. Their primary job is to go somewhere and basically set up a microcosm of civilization out of nothing to include: training a fighting force, establishing medical facilities, developing sanitary food and water sources etc. Most of how to do this is listed in many dry and boring Army FM's and technical publications. Here is a link to download them.

Let me get out of the way something, in order to have the best odds (will never be 100%) to successfully survive an event many preconceived notions will have to be dispensed with as Leonard and others succinctly pointed out. This will not be like a camping trip. If you are not living your plan when "it" goes down your odds for survival begin dropping precipitously. It is far better to live a modestly prudent life all the time, then try and execute a no expense spared contingency plan.

Also, obviously the best plan is to live remotely in a small town but that is not feasible for everyone. Those poor bastards who by hook or by crook have to stay near the city can and should still do things to increase their chances for survival, even only marginally. Don't fret if that is the case. Own it. Learn your soil and microclimate. Get to know your neighbors - which ones are veterans, nurses, mechanics or liberals. Only the most hardened brigands won't have second thoughts after receiving any type of incoming fire.

Quote:1. What is the minimum number of men your team should have to ensure survival? My guess is enough to cover shifts to watch any property you're holed up in while being able to deter larger gangs.

Bare Minimum: Yourself +2. Most of the military revolves around a 3 section watch rotation with 1 section for watch, resting, and working. This is going to depend on everyone's specific circumstance, but the best way is to start small. In the immediate term, have 2 friends to help guard your house/apt. Medium term, expand that out to your block/floor. Long term would be bringing your neighborhood/building into the fold. At worst this would take place in a city or suburb, at best in a close community in an unincorporated area far from a major city but the tenets don't really change. Secure your house first and extend your security influence bit by bit.

If you had a small house/farm of say 10-20 acres I would want a dozen men broken into 3 squads of 4 with an additional team of support or HQ personnel for the active squads to rotate into to get some downtime. So ideally 16-20. When you factor in these numbers you have to scale up your formulas for water, calories, sanitation, etc. The amount of food you will need to grow for 4-5 people is much different than 16-20 in the amount of land it will take up and the amount of labor it will consume.

Quote:2. What specialties should the team have? At the minimum, you'll need a "soldier" (weapons expert), "farmer" (able to procure water and food, and make it last), and a "medic" (about to heal wounds, treat infections and illness). These areas will overlap in a team, but each person should be the "go to man" for certain problems.

Every team member, as a matter of survival, must be proficient in both pistols and rifles, care of the 8 basic wounds/first aid, be able to communicate inter and intra team, and be fit enough to carry another member of the team to safety. After that, then there should be further specializations similar to the Army SF 18X MOS system.

-Weapons will take care of more intricate tasks like repair or assembly of weapons or reloading of ammunition.

-Medical will take care of more intensive tasks like sutures, serious wounds etc.

-Comms will take care of the radios and develop a comms plan with call signs, brevity words, etc.

-Logistics can take care of tracking inventory of food, water, and supplies.

-Engineer can take care of building projects and repairing things

Quote:3. How should each specialty train or prepare? What should the medic study or read? What is a basic arsenal for the soldier? What do men do in countries that don't allow weapons?

For weapons, my minimum is a rifle and handgun in a common caliber (9mm/5.56) +2 reloads, IFAK, flashlight, multi-tool, and radio. Weapons should be common among team. Once you have those, begin to work on 1st, 2nd and 3rd line gear. Marksmanship should be practiced with a "crawl, walk, run" approach beginning with square range practice and culminating with practice under time/environmental/physical stress with the team.

Bows and pellet rifles are extremely effective tools, with the benefit of being very quiet.

As mentioned, a 22LR is a vital part of a survival arsenal. Its small and light, cheap and easy to shoot.

Some medical books that have relevant info:
Where There Is No Doctor pdf
Survival and Austere Medicine pdf
Survival Medicine Handbook is a good one

You could sign on in your county as a volunteer FF/EMS which would net you quality training and expand your network of quality individuals.

HAM Radio for Dummies pdf
ARRL HAM Radio License Manual

Quote:4. What will be the trigger point for the team to activate? Exactly when should they start prepping for the crisis and get ready for war? What are the minimal prepping requirements to survive a crisis of 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, and 1 year?

It should be activated now. If you can not perform everyday activities (work, shopping, exercise) without disruption or safety concerns then it is time to either egress or move to a war footing if you plan to stay. Everyone should be able to shelter in place for 30 days. It is not hard to grab extra food/supplies from a place like Costco which is not only very easy but very opaque to your intended goals. If your neighbors see you with a Costco haul, you can pass that off as just buying in bulk to save money or something innocuous like that. But if you have UPS delivering pallets of freeze dried food and 55 gal drums of beans to your driveway, that type of shit will be remembered.

For anything longer than a few days several factors will quickly come into play and will get exponentially more difficult as time goes on.

1. Environmental protection (i.e. no heat in winter)
2. Security concerns
3. Water supply and purification
4. Sanitation
5. Food supply

Here Selco's experience is invaluable as he relates what became the most desired items and thus a currency in itself. Charles Martel covered alcohol as a prep and that is pure gold. A bottle of 95% grain alcohol is $15 and has many many uses in addition to barter.

Quote:5. How will you communicate in early stages of crisis? It must be assumed that all internet and telecommunications goes down. How will you maintain a connection with the outside world?

Cellular infrastructure will be quickly overwhelmed in any sort of crisis situation. The best way to maintain comms to the next AO is with HAM radio, which to operate legally requires a permit from the FCC. UHF/VHF/HF all have different operating parameters and ranges.

Non-lisenced options include MURS, GRMS, and CB. In my estimation the best device for short range (<1km) is probably the Motorola 900MHz DTR series which are weatherproof and fairly secure by use of frequency hopping algorithms. Motorola DTR 550

Quote:6. In prolonged crisis, how will you gather supplies? Will you conduct raids? Will you try to escape the country?

Make do or do without. Ideally you would grow a large portion of your food in the form of nutritionally dense regional crops and subsist that with hunting/fishing and bartering if safe to do so. Beware those who say you can plant a victory garden or some such BS, growing your own food is not something that comes easy. Tools, seeds, fertilizer, prepping the earth is hard work and you might fuck it up for a couple seasons. Thats one of the reasons for having 1 yr+ worth of food is to make sure if when your early plantings fail you have something to fall back on. For God's sake buy open pollinated seeds that work for your climate. Raising small animals can be done in even the most urban environments. Chickens, rabbits, and goats are all small and don't require a disproportionate amount of care as opposed to a cow.

Haven't been posting much lately, so apologies if this is a bit disjointed it's an absolutely massive topic to cover in a single post.

Post: #33

Some great info being posted in here. Just wanted to add on to this point:

(08-16-2017 04:18 PM)Adonis Wrote:  Chickens, rabbits, and goats are all small and don't require a disproportionate amount of care as opposed to a cow.

Rabbits are a seriously overlooked animal for survival scenarios. I'd go out on a limb and say that they may be the best animals to raise for such a situation. Yes, it's true that you can get rabbit starvation (protein poisoning) if you try to subsist on them and nothing else, but all you need to do is add some healthy fat to the mix and you'll be fine.

On the plus side, they're easy to raise, they breed like crazy, you don't need much space at all, they taste good if prepared right, and best of all...they're quiet. As much as I love chickens, goats, etc. those animals all make noise. The last thing you want is a rooster crowing or a goat bleating in your backyard. Might as well ring the dinner bell for the whole neighborhood. One could easily keep a bunny hutch in a walled backyard, or even in the house, and nobody would be the wiser.

Post: #34

Oh, and I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yet...you want to assemble the perfect A-team for when the SHTF? Two words...

Little Dark.

Hell, bring NTP into the mix and you'll have every conceivable angle covered. At the very least he'll be able to whisk you away to safety on his catamaran with a gaggle of bikini clad babes.

Post: #35

I've been meaning to do a datasheet in this direction for the longest time but the timing is just bad so I'll drop bits and peices on this thread as I go along.

Your absolute best case scenario to survive a long term societal disruption is to find a rural town surrounded by farmland that's ideally at least 2 hours drive from the edge of the nearest city. At least half of that drive should be on back roads, which is to say you don't want to choose a place that's 2 hours away but literally sitting next to an offramp for a major thoroughfare. Backroads mean bridges and bottlenecks the locals can seal off or defend.

You want to have a house inside the town. The ranch plan is suicide for the uninitiated. Guarding even 25 acres as Adonis mentioned is going to need a lot of guys and if women and children are in the mix then your ability to feed them all becomes extremely dicey at best.

If shit gets bad then farming towns are going to recreate themselves as tiny city states. The town will quickly be fortified, food production will become somewhat collectivised and the farm areas outside the township itself are going to be protected by what used to be called "regulators". In modern times you'll be looking at 50 young men in a half a dozen up-armoured vehicles looking something like a redneck army convoy. What they lack in professional training they make up for in extremely detailed area knowledge. And no, they're not going to be stupid, drunk hicks like you see in the movies. They will be led by local veterans and farm family patriarchs, and believe me when I say that by today's standards they are all as tough as nails.

If you live in the town all year around you'll simply be given a task to do like taking watch at the town perimeter or pulling up turnips with a work crew, and you're going to say "yes sir, thankyou sir" because having food in your stomach and a safe place to sleep makes you one of the luckiest people in the country.

If you own the place but you're not planing on living there exclusively then you need to spend enough time there and socialise with enough people that your face is well known to the community. That way when you arrive by car or foot the guys manning the barricade (and there will be barricades) will make a few checks on the two-way and wave you through.

You need to keep a lot of supplies stored at your house there, and when you arrive you're going to tell the town planner that if he needs something all he has to do is ask.

Nothing in a crisis like that, bar nothing, is more important than being part of an armed and fortified community. It may be hard to surrender yourself to become a small cog in a large machine but your odds of survival trying to go it alone are pitiful at best, and even if you survive your life becomes an utter misery.

p.s. Take note of those bottle-necks and barricades. If your plans involve trekking across rural America then think again. The locals are going to form protectorates that in a larger sense buffer against other protectorates. What you will be dealing with is not an absence of any law and order. It will be an extreme sharpening of law and order. The law for all outsiders will be "stay the fuck out" and the punishment will range from being marched back in the direction you arrived from to simply being shot from ambush without warning (wearing obvious local sports team paraphernalia could be the difference between life and death, and I wouldn't fault you for loudly singing the local football team anthem as you marched).

If you have to cross several protectorates to get to your final location then you need to carry proof of who you are, where your home is and who you know in that region (relatives are often scattered across different districts). Let the guys manning the barricades know that you have supplies in place at your home in Whereverville and that you want to advise the guys there about the situation in town (whatever that is). Having established that your life has some value they might actually give you lift through their area since they're not going to want a functional stranger wandering from one side of their territory to the other with a gun.

Oh, and when it comes to guns you might seriously want to consider arming yourself in a way that's not apparent to onlookers. If someone on watch sees some guy trekking along with a tactically slung AR15 he might not bother taking the chance to find out who this guy is, since he's a half a second away from a firefight if the guy decides to get froggy. He might just shoot that guy to be on the safe side, or at very least when he calls 'halt' his finger is going to be very heavy on the trigger-slack.

Keep your mall-ninja rifle at the location you intend to arrive at.

Post: #36

(08-16-2017 03:18 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Remember that gas powered vehicles will be useless in a SHTF scenario.

Gas breaks down over three to five months in a sealed container. Diesel trucks and cars are far more functional as diesel is an oil and lasts a lot longer.

Try to avoid diesel vehicles that use urea for emissions. Obviously hard to come by if supply lines are cut and the stupid computer will leave you stranded even with a full tank.

I'd rather just set up a ranch with horses. Live like it's 1885. Canning, preserving meats, etc. My wife is very interested in learning how to do this. Worthwhile delegating tasks out like that.

Depends how long the situation lasts. But if you need to store gas, get a 5-gallon metal gas can with good gaskets, and add some fuel stabilizer. Should be good for 8-12 months.

Post: #37

As badass as having guns and fantasizing about firefights, the most valuable members of your team are going to be the gardeners.

You can't eat 45ACP rounds for dinner.

Having this mindset will protect you both a complete failing of our current system and a partial failing where law and order still prevail to some degree.

During the last months of WWII, it was the city dwellers in Europe, not the farmers who really suffered.

Look into aquaponics. It's a robust system that requires few inputs (produces its own fertilizer/nutrients, minimizes the use of water) that will provide you with both garden produce and protein (fish).

The energy inputs can be supplied by solar panels or manually if necessary (and if a manual power system is created, it would be simple enough for even a child or possibly a woman to operate it).

In a social meltdown scenario, you'd need to stock a ton of fish food, though. More productive than stocking fertilizer or having the larger footprint that comes with having farm animals along with crops.

It's something a person can do now that requires a small amount of daily effort (mainly just feeding the fish, no weeding a serious maintenance required) that would continue to be very useful if society failed.

(08-15-2017 08:13 PM)SirTimothy Wrote:  

(08-15-2017 12:58 PM)Roosh Wrote:  3. How should each specialty train or prepare? What should the medic study or read? What is a basic arsenal for the soldier? What do men do in countries that don't allow weapons?

I'll just talk about the weapons part. Have enough ammo to completely reload your main firearm 25 times, and a sidearm 15 times, if you have it. Take a basic pistol or fighting rifle course, and then maybe more advanced courses. It also helps if the people in your group have firearms that use the same ammo/magazines.

This is a key point that most survivalist LARPers ignore. Weapon fetishism is more important to them than functionality.

Being able to share the same types of ammo means that you don't have a weapon that is functionally useless if you run out of ammo for that particular firearm.

You can stock just one (or three) types of ammo instead of trying to estimate the required ammo needed for each different type of firearm.

Compatible magazines is very helpful if you end up in a kill or be killed firefight scenario. If one of the member of your team exhausts the loaded magazines that he is currently carrying, it's obviously not great to have to reload mags mid-firefight. Being able to share could be life or death.

ideally, you should settle on one type of handgun, one type of assault rifle and one type of long range battle rifle or hunting rifle. It will be pretty useless to have a weapons expert in your group who is capable of repairing broken weapons if there are no spare parts.

If everyone is using different models of firearms, two broken guns is two broken guns. If everyone is using the same models, two broken guns is one working gun.

Another thing to consider is (should the zombie apocalypse go down), certain types of ammunition are going to be easier to scavenge or trade for depending on their commonality. There's no value in selecting a fire arm caliber that is technically optimal if you don't have an unlimited supply of the ammunition. 22 short and long and 9mm calibers are very common, so it would be smart to have you handguns that are in 9mm (even if you prefer the stopping power of a .45) and at least a few guns on hand that can take a .22.

If you are in a country that won't allow you to have weapons (even hunting rifles or shotguns), a crossbow (if legal) is about as good as it is going to get.

Post: #38

Leonard's tips are good, but they encompass some major crisis - akin to total collapse of civilization or civil war that is fought with conventional weaponry.

I will gladly join the mobile infantry division of the group that guards the perimeters.

Also as for frost-bite in tents - I personally had something similar to that in my tent:



All you need is wood that you procure while camping in the woods. But I did have some infantry training - was trained in the anti-tank mobile infantry units. Later I got some experience as a "peace-keeper" securing borders with night-vision goggles etc.

Even if you try to defend a well-secured place, then you need plenty of wide-ranging scouts and additional soldiers. It's only in the movies that you get surprised like morons by an approaching army.

Post: #39

^I advise you to do the maths.

Take the region you're planning on camping in and do an honest assessment of how many men (with or without families) are likely to take the option of the "extended camping trip".

Keep in mind that you will need to be near a water source, so optimistically divide the number of gun toting campers by the number of square kilometers adjacent to a river or lake. Unless you're already in a remote location the numbers will probably make you laugh and cry at the same time.

Consider furthermore what it implies to be "downriver" of someone without a sewage treatment plant on the books.

Consider futhermore how you're going to get your stove there, because all vehicle access points will be instantly swamped. The first ones down the road might simply get their chainsaws and fall a dozen ten ton trees across the access roads to slow down those behind them. The locals might do it the second the "bombs drop". You could easily find yourself at a series of dead-ends with a backlog of panicky gun-toting campers arriving behind you in an increasingly long line of cars.

Consider furthermore that even in the unlikely event that you were the first one off the blocks and ahead of the pack, the second you stop to make camp you're going to be leapfrogged. Maybe the guys passing you are friendly. Maybe not. They're going to smell your stove a mile away, which is now a priceless object. Your line of sight is the inside of your tent. I'm sure I don't need to explain further.

Post: #40

Highly recommended:



Highly recommended fiction depicting the issues that will be faced if the catastrophe short-circuits civilisation itself. (It's a bloody excellent book regardless)

Post: #41

One of the exercises you do in some infantry units is to have a small platoon of 30 men carry all necessary equipment for an extended stay in the woods.

I did not take any cars and roads into consideration at all. If you can have equipment and men driven somewhere, all the better, if not, then no problem. I have been to units who spent 3-4 weeks off civilization. There are always half a dozen men on the lookout 24/7. Anyone interested in our stove and food will have some difficulty doing it.

Actually one standard exercise was defending against such night-sneak attacks, planting grenade traps in advance - all fun and games of course so long as no one was using live ammo.

I even talked with older men who fled from the Russians as well as retreating German units in the latter part of the war. They too spent days in the woods and in some abandoned shacks, but it wasn't winter back then. You can even avoid the Russian rape army with my strategy.

But I think we are talking here about different things.

Post: #42

^If you've got 30 military men with their kit and their rifles then you're definitely going to be the baddest guys in the area.

At that point you're going to have to worry more about being swamped by the feckless, bedraggled beggars than being attacked by idiots.

p.s. but yeah, I think I mistook the point you were making.

Post: #43

(08-17-2017 03:10 AM)Suits Wrote:  As badass as having guns and fantasizing about firefights, the most valuable members of your team are going to be the gardeners.
...

Fall in with the farmers. Growing food is what they do and they're very good at it. If you get in on ground level then you're going to move to management when the fuel runs out and they start plucking up suitable refugees to work the fields.

Quote:This is a key point that most survivalist LARPers ignore. Weapon fetishism is more important to them than functionality.
...

Add up the sheer weight of most of the theoretical loadouts people come up with and it's immediately laughable. They couldn't carry their own arsenal over uneven ground for a day, much less their food and water as well.

Most have zero high stress training.

The fact is that the number of gunfights the average person is likely to survive is zero if you want to round down and one if you want to round up.

Gun guys are going to die because they attract the attention of other gun guys. They are the equivalent of a dog that can't stop baring it's teeth. If that dog finds itself around other dogs with the same problem then violence is inevitable, but the action hero mentality prohibits them from conceiving that they're the one that's going to catch a bullet in the gut and die over the course of a few agonising hours.

I say again. If you're travelling carry concealed or not at all. The FN P90 might be the best option if you absolutely MUST have a stock and a scope.

Post: #44

(08-17-2017 04:36 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  ...the action hero mentality prohibits them from conceiving that they're the one that's going to catch a bullet in the gut and die over the course of a few agonising hours.

That's the thing.

These guys are Internet keyboard jockeys.

Whether they legitimately expect civilization as they know it to collapse or not, whatever belief they have in its certainty is not enough to legitimately make strides to secure their survival.

If they really believed what they were typing, they'd be taking their efforts a whole lot further.

Post: #45

(08-16-2017 09:44 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  If shit gets bad then farming towns are going to recreate themselves as tiny city states. The town will quickly be fortified, food production will become somewhat collectivised and the farm areas outside the township itself are going to be protected by what used to be called "regulators". In modern times you'll be looking at 50 young men in a half a dozen up-armoured vehicles looking something like a redneck army convoy. What they lack in professional training they make up for in extremely detailed area knowledge. And no, they're not going to be stupid, drunk hicks like you see in the movies. They will be led by local veterans and farm family patriarchs, and believe me when I say that by today's standards they are all as tough as nails.

Leonard, you'll never know the effort you save me in keystrokes. I've just spent 2 days thinking up what you have explained much more clearly than I could have.
I'm one of the farmers a few miles from town.
To go back to one of Roosh's original questions, Because of my location I would expect a crew of around 5 - 7 men (mostly family) and a couple of partners and children, would make their way here without communication in a SHTF situation.
We would all be well known locally and well armed.
Nearest town, which as you say would be fortified, would be easily accessible, especially on foot, motorcycle, or on horseback. Other local family farm homes/fortresses also accesible through paddocks and back lanes.
Nearest (small) city an easy day's hike cross country if necessary.
As long as livestock could be contained and defended, food would be plentiful and useful for trade. Failing that, enough fish/game to survive on here.
First thing I would need to do is go and get as much diesel fuel as I possibly could. As long as I have diesel I have transport, power (lights/welding etc) earthmoving equipment, haulage.

...and ammo, I really should go buy some more ammo next time I'm in town. (.303, .22 and 12ga, common.)

Post: #46

After considering the points made by Suits and LDN it is evident that a full on aggressive defense is outside the capacities of most of us.
Would a fox den strategy be ideal for hybrid city /rural types?

Post: #47

My first thought on this very good idea from Roosh is that if you want to form local "A teams" for survival from forum members you would be very wise to get the organisation and structure of the group offline as soon as possible. Especially if the group is armed and holds a large amount of survival supplies, camouflage outdoor clothing and a large amount of ammunition.

Your local government will want to monitor any such organised groups as suspected potential terrorists / radical militia- associated with a so-called "hate speech" right wing philosophy (red pill) and you will be the first to be rounded up and sent to the concentration/FEMA camps when the shit hits the fan and martial law is declared.

They'll round you up before local youth gangs and before Islamic radical groups.

I would suggest any groups arrange to meet initially via RVF forum private message, with no mention that the purpose is to scout for potential suitable A team members. Then keep any organisation and contact in code and off the light web ( maybe a secure private dark web forum is possible) and certainly no RVF A team Facebook groups. The CIA will be watching you.

I can see a potential Islamic coup being staged to gain control of parts of the UK or Europe in the future and any groups that attempt to resist the Islamists could very well be branded "Islamophobic hate speech militia" and be rounded up, imprisoned without trial or even branded as "nazi terrorists" and immediately excecuted by the authorities.

Post: #48

The variables make it almost impossible to give specific advice.

Location:

• Inner city
• Suburbs
• Near-city farmland
• Distant farmland
• Other (swamp, mountains, etc)
  

Expected length of civil disorder:

• 1 week
• 1 month
• 3 months
• 6 months
• 1 year
• Longer
  

Crisis plan activation trigger:

• Political violence
• Massive loss of utilities for more than one week
• Foreign invasion
• Pandemic
• Nuclear attack
• Red-pill sites all go dark
  

Where you live:

• Residential highrise
• Downtown apartment
• Suburban house
• As above in gated community
• Rural town home
• Rural homestead
  

Class considerations:

• Upper class blue
• Upper class red
• Middle class blue
• Middle class red
• Lower class blue
• Lower class red
  

Intentions:

• Hide in place
• Fight in place
• Quiet exfiltration
• Violent exfiltration
  

Budget until crisis:

• $10 p/w
• $100 p/w
• $1000 p/w
• $10000 p/w
  

Every person reading this is going to have a different set of answers, and the people you want to put on your team are going to need to be giving virtually the same answers to most of those questions that you did.

Post: #49

Good book that covers some of the concepts here.

Skousen is rather odd in his political believe, but a lot of his tactica/prep analysis is great.



One thing I would advise is that if you seriously believe mass unrest/disruption is going to occur in the foreseeable future then you should be actively seeking to relocate to a more favorable area. You'll want somewhere that's culturally homogenous, resource self sufficient, and geographically isolated from the major coastal tension centers.

http://www.joelskousen.com/strategic.html

Post: #50

Also worth adding:

Given the US's extremely large land mass, most disruptions are likely to be regionalized. One should also consider and look historically in which areas most of this civil unrest has been occurring. It's typically got traction in areas that have large numbers of low-income minorities and/or huge presence from over-privileged college leftists. This has been most of the large West Coast and NorthEastern cities, large southern cities, and large rust belt cities like Chicago and Detroit.... a little bit less in red state liberal "islands" like Dallas. Also keep in mind that deliberately stirred up racial hatred makes places like Atlanta and Chicago a tinderbox. Special shoutout to St. Louis for having a lot of areas that are dangerous to enter while white during normal times.

The typical left-wing tactics haven't worked as well in some flyover country cities. In Columbus their protests got quickly shut down as 2nd amendment types organized open carry protests, and their attempts at disrupting civil society haven't gotten much traction to speak of in places like Wyoming or Kansas. Even places like Denver or Wichita are far from ideal but are likely to far much better than the Coastal cities or racially segregated southern cities.

If you assume that those areas will probably stay largely intact the logistics change: that entire heartland area is capable of being a self sufficient mini-state on its own: coal is mined in Wyoming and in many cases shipped a relatively short distance to fuel power in neighboring states like Colorado. All have a strong agricultural sector, and there is plenty of oil available from Colorado to North Dakota through Kansas.....and they are quite capable of producing their own industrial and farming equipment in that region.

It's not entirely unreasonable to assume that one could be protected from the vast majority of problems by relocating to somewhere like Casper Wyoming, Billings Montana, or Salt Lake City.