Post: #51

(08-12-2017 01:36 PM)zigZag Wrote:  One of these things created a world war that killed 10s of millions of people and forever changed the world. BLM isn't good but its a far stretch to compare it to nazism.

Anyways if all you guys thinking joining Neonazis is a way to advance your cause then fair enough. Just know that for the overwhelming majority of americans of all races.. Nazism is a non starter.

Oh sweet Jesus, this is the straw man of straw mans. We're "joining" Nazis now because we disagree with you?

My position is similar to Roosh's: http://www.rooshv.com/i-do-not-disavow-richard-spencer

I'm not going to flagellate myself for every person on the right with whom I don't fully agree.

63 million people voted for Trump. There are presently only two senior boogeymen in the media - Spencer and Nathan Damigo - who even come close to the white nationalist categorization.

The idea that we can assume collective responsibility for a minority of Trump's supporters (and Spencer seems to have very reluctantly supported Trump) is laughable.

Post: #52

Post: #53

Brazillian conservative intellectual Olavo de Carvalho (living in the US) has commented that he believes these "alt-right" people were indirectly paid by Soros to demonstrate.

Post: #54

(08-12-2017 01:44 PM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 01:36 PM)zigZag Wrote:  One of these things created a world war that killed 10s of millions of people and forever changed the world. BLM isn't good but its a far stretch to compare it to nazism.

Anyways if all you guys thinking joining Neonazis is a way to advance your cause then fair enough. Just know that for the overwhelming majority of americans of all races.. Nazism is a non starter.

Oh sweet Jesus, this is the straw man of straw mans. We're "joining" Nazis now because we disagree with you?

My position is similar to Roosh's: http://www.rooshv.com/i-do-not-disavow-richard-spencer

I'm not going to flagellate myself for every person on the right with whom I don't fully agree.

63 million people voted for Trump. There are presently only two senior boogeymen in the media - Spencer and Nathan Damigo - who even come close to the white nationalist categorization.

The idea that we can assume collective responsibility for a minority of Trump's supporters (and Spencer seems to have very reluctantly supported Trump) is laughable.

No. This rally was organized from what i'm saying by richard spencer. Features hitler speeches and nazi imagery.

yes 63 million and they will be distancing themselves from anyone who was even close to this rally. Even trump was quick to distance himself. What you don't understand is that you don't win by putting yourself on an island.

Post: #55

Does all of this make passing the RAISE act easier or harder?

Does it make building the wall easier or harder?

Does it make our campaign against censorship from the tech monopolies easier or harder?

Does it make pinning violence on the left easier or harder?

I shouldn't have to answer those questions. In almost every way it makes the stuff that we actually want harder to get.

I hope Richard Spencer and his merry band had fun cosplaying.

Post: #56

Quote:You're not trying to appease your enemies. You're trying to have more people join your side. If you don't care about optics then you'll end up on an island with only enemies surrounding you. Then you have nothing.

Which side, ZigZag?

As of right now, the only two sides are Progressives and Anti-Progressives?

Explain how Richard Spencer's march is going to convince a bunch of normies to say, "You know what? I'm with the blue-haired Progressives now!"

Post: #57

Quote:Now Trump had to disavow again. Predictable. Even Fox News is calling this a "White Nationalist"

You can stymie anyone who complains about White Nationalism by asking them whether they've spent at least two years living in a country whose population is less than 10% White.

Then tell them to live in such a country, and see whether their political views have changed.

White Nationalism is such an ill-understood term that you can easily turn it around.

I also like turning White Supremacist into "anyone who absolutely never wants to live under the political rules of Muslims, Latinos, or Blacks". Under this definition, Tariq Nasheed becomes a White Supremacist (which is funny as hell), and you can legitimately say things like, "As a White Supremacist, I welcome White Supremacists of all races into America, but I feel sorry for the White Supremacists who constantly pretend not to be White Supremacists."

Post: #58

(08-12-2017 01:48 PM)zigZag Wrote:  No. This rally was organized from what i'm saying by richard spencer. Features hitler speeches and nazi imagery.

yes 63 million and they will be distancing themselves from anyone who was even close to this rally. Even trump was quick to distance himself. What you don't understand is that you don't win by putting yourself on an island.

You still can't explain how those of us disagreeing with you are "joining" Nazis and neo-Nazis.

Last time I checked, I'm sitting in a hotel in southern Slovakia, waiting for my phones to charge so I can go out on the town and drink.

I don't recall being in Charlottesville today, or yesterday, or the day before.

Post: #59

(08-12-2017 01:51 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Quote:You're not trying to appease your enemies. You're trying to have more people join your side. If you don't care about optics then you'll end up on an island with only enemies surrounding you. Then you have nothing.

Which side, ZigZag?

As of right now, the only two sides are Progressives and Anti-Progressives?

Explain how Richard Spencer's march is going to convince a bunch of normies to say, "You know what? I'm with the blue-haired Progressives now!"

No as of right now there is a small minority on the extreme right and on the extreme left. The majority of people are "moderates" for a better term or normies if you will.

Richard spencers march won't make them say they are blue-haired progressives but they will say that the alt-right is filled with racist, bigoted, toxic individuals who have no place in a civil society and then your little group will be relegated to a fringe minority. Then when voting time comes.. candidates whom don't distance themselves from you will get burned because anything even remotely close to nazism is once again a nonstarter.

Post: #60

Zigzag Wrote:Nazism is a non starter.

Dear God.

The Richard Spencer crowd chanted "Blood and Soil", which is the English translation of an old Nazi slogan. You've never heard of it, so you don't know what it means. So you'll either look it up, or ask someone who knows, and you'll be told, "Blood and Soil means that the people who have shed the most amount of blood, for the greatest number of years, have the most legitimate claims to a particular nation. So, in America, if you trace your ancestry to George Washington (or his peers), then you have the strongest claim to America. And, in Mexico, it you trace your ancestry to Pancho Villa, then you have the strongest claim to Mexico. Do you think White people should conquer Mexico, simply because White people produce more social good than Mexico does?"

(Wait for them to say no.)

"That's funny. Before this conversation started, I didn't think you were a Nazi. Should you be viewed as a Nazi, simply because you agree with one Nazi form of reasoning?"

ZigZag, you seriously need to learn how to fight bullshit, rather than surrendering to it.

Post: #61

(08-12-2017 01:58 PM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 01:48 PM)zigZag Wrote:  No. This rally was organized from what i'm saying by richard spencer. Features hitler speeches and nazi imagery.

yes 63 million and they will be distancing themselves from anyone who was even close to this rally. Even trump was quick to distance himself. What you don't understand is that you don't win by putting yourself on an island.

You still can't explain how those of us disagreeing with you are "joining" Nazis and neo-Nazis.

Last time I checked, I'm sitting in a hotel in southern Slovakia, waiting for my phones to charge so I can go out on the town and drink.

I don't recall being in Charlottesville today, or yesterday, or the day before.

I never once said that if you disagree with me you're joining nazis. If you think of yourself as part of the alt-right. You'll now be thrown in with neonazis. Which means everyone will distance themselves from the movement.

Post: #62

Post: #63

Zigzag Wrote:Richard spencers march won't make them say they are blue-haired progressives but they will say that the alt-right is filled with racist, bigoted, toxic individuals who have no place in a civil society and then your little group will be relegated to a fringe minority.

And then either (1) You will say that, for all the negative names people have called them, Richard Spencer's crowd burned no buildings like ANTIFA, and killed no police officers like Black Lives Matter activist Micah X Johnson or (2) You'll shirk the opportunity like your True Conservative political ancestors, while wondering (in three years time) where the people went three years ago who could have fought the Progressive takeover all of definitions and frames.

Post: #64

Whatever the predicament it is we are in, I must highlight that the possibility that it will be solved with civility is highly unlikely. Parasitic ideologies like socialism and communism are like weeds, if you leave them unattended they will grow. If you expect these "people" to simply roll over and accept a new ideological zeitgeist then you are sorely mistaken. They will fight harder than before, they will do the same thing but they will do it more often and more desperately. You must crush them and their ideology. There is no other way.

"Whoever has overthrown an existing law of custom has always first been accounted a bad man: but when, as did happen, the law could not afterwards be reinstated and this fact was accepted, the predicate gradually changed; - history treats almost exclusively of these bad men who subsequently became good men!"

Nietzsche

Post: #65

Libertas Wrote:Does all of this make passing the RAISE act easier or harder?

Does it make building the wall easier or harder?

Does it make our campaign against censorship from the tech monopolies easier or harder?

The RAISE ACT is more easily passed, because the same people who condemn the RAISE Act also condemn the Richard Spencer march but not BLM violence, nor the destruction in Berkeley.

Building the wall is made easier, because the same people who condemn the wall also condemn the Richard Spencer march but not the pro-active deportation of illegal immigrants, resulting in a less safe country.

Fighting against tech-censorship is made easier, because the same people who want tech-censorship also condemn the Richard Spencer march but not Keith Ellison's praise of Kim Jong Un as "acting more responsibly than Trump".

Post: #66

Still, that said we need to be aggressive in rooting any actual fascist/nazi shit that creeps into our ranks. Not only is this NOT what we're fighting for, but it's a losing proposition. It does an enormous amount to swing public opinion in favor of globalists so we should not be giving this vocal minority of assholes a problem.

Again, it's a dangerous road. The left is imploding largely because they failed to reign in their own side's crazies. If the right also fails it won't be good for anyone.

Post: #67

This is the future:



Guess what?

Compare to this:



There's a flood coming.

And most of us here are too old to understand the ramifications. Yes, even the millenials.

The people who are triggered by Nazi larping as becoming ever more useless and old. The Gen Z has seen Schlomo online since they could barely read.

Post: #68

(08-12-2017 02:12 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Zigzag Wrote:Richard spencers march won't make them say they are blue-haired progressives but they will say that the alt-right is filled with racist, bigoted, toxic individuals who have no place in a civil society and then your little group will be relegated to a fringe minority.

And then either (1) You will say that, for all the negative names people have called them, Richard Spencer's crowd burned no buildings like ANTIFA, and killed no police officers like Black Lives Matter activist Micah X Johnson or (2) You'll shirk the opportunity like your True Conservative political ancestors, while wondering (in three years time) where the people went three years ago who could have fought the Progressive takeover all of definitions and frames.

Neither ANTIFA or BLM caused an ENTIRE WORLD WAR that killed 10s of millions of people. There is no comparison. Neither BLM or ANTIFA or associated with concentration camps and the mass extermination of a race of people. No matter how you try to spin it... nazism is a non-starter.

Post: #69

CNN stoking violence.

CNN has gone full "punch a Nazi" and we all know Nazi is anyone who disagrees with Jake Tapper, and of course all Trump voters.

Post: #70

No one here is joining a defunct German political party, for fuck's sake.

This is 0/10 shitposting.

Post: #71

(08-12-2017 02:12 PM)Traktor Wrote:  

A five second Google search of "demographics of Moscow Russia" led me to a Wikipedia page that indicates there are no Blacks in Russia.

If I felt like it, I could spend twenty more seconds tweeting Mark Sleboda with that Wikipedia link, and then asking him if he's even seen a Black person before.

You can learn to do this, too. It's funny, and Progressives insta-surrender to it.

Post: #72

Zigzag Wrote:No matter how you try to spin it... nazism is a non-starter.

Evidence suggests that ZigZag is a non-starter.

Would ZigZag even say something as simple as, "The Nazis died out in 1945. Learn your history."?

Post: #73

(08-12-2017 02:21 PM)zigZag Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:12 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Zigzag Wrote:Richard spencers march won't make them say they are blue-haired progressives but they will say that the alt-right is filled with racist, bigoted, toxic individuals who have no place in a civil society and then your little group will be relegated to a fringe minority.

And then either (1) You will say that, for all the negative names people have called them, Richard Spencer's crowd burned no buildings like ANTIFA, and killed no police officers like Black Lives Matter activist Micah X Johnson or (2) You'll shirk the opportunity like your True Conservative political ancestors, while wondering (in three years time) where the people went three years ago who could have fought the Progressive takeover all of definitions and frames.

Neither ANTIFA or BLM caused an ENTIRE WORLD WAR that killed 10s of millions of people. There is no comparison. Neither BLM or ANTIFA or associated with concentration camps and the mass extermination of a race of people. No matter how you try to spin it... nazism is a non-starter.

Give it a rest, dude. Nobody here is saying "gosh, we should dress up like the SS!" We're saying it doesn't matter if some other people did.

And you say BLM and Antifa aren't associated with concentrations camps and genocide, yes? Well, you're right, for now. I'd prefer we stop them from getting there, which we're not going to do by playing nice and listening to tone police like you.

Post: #74

Quote:White Nationalism is such an ill-understood term that you can easily turn it around.

I also like turning White Supremacist into "anyone who absolutely never wants to live under the political rules of Muslims, Latinos, or Blacks". Under this definition, Tariq Nasheed becomes a White Supremacist (which is funny as hell), and you can legitimately say things like, "As a White Supremacist, I welcome White Supremacists of all races into America, but I feel sorry for the White Supremacists who constantly pretend not to be White Supremacists."

That's well and good, but recall that the symbolism that goes with those words doesn't just go away with a clever reframe. And remember Bosch's "degenerate triad" of how they operate - irrationalism, emotionalism, and symbolism.

Quote:The RAISE ACT is more easily passed, because the same people who condemn the RAISE Act also condemn the Richard Spencer march but not BLM violence, nor the destruction in Berkeley.

While there will be a strong overlap with this, it's not necessarily so. And now you have a visual symbol where the media gets to go "see - these are the people who want the RAISE act passed!"

Quote:Building the wall is made easier, because the same people who condemn the wall also condemn the Richard Spencer march but not the pro-active deportation of illegal immigrants, resulting in a less safe country.

Facts are of only secondary importance. It rather all ties into the narrative that's always been prominent which is that they get to say "see - THESE are the people who want the wall built!" The subject now isn't about protecting your country and borders, which this would have been if these idiots wore MAGA hats and carried Gadsden flags. Now the attention is drawn only to race.

Quote:Fighting against tech-censorship is made easier, because the same people who want tech-censorship also condemn the Richard Spencer march but not Keith Ellison's praise of Kim Jong Un as "acting more responsibly than Trump".

Or more likely it will serve as confirmation bias that the "Alt-Right" (now a poisoned term that can mean anything they don't like, unlike last year) needs to be censored so that stuff like this becomes harder for them to do.

That's more than likely how it's going to go.

And for what? What did this do? All this over some fucking statue?

If real damage was to be done to our enemies, there would be a massive march on Google (which will still happen) carrying "Goolag" signs and that sort, which was brilliant memeing. Now it's all subsumed.

Reasonable people here will disagree with me. That's fine. But I can almost guarantee that this advances the ball not one inch down the field. Quite the reverse.

(08-12-2017 02:23 PM)Dusty Wrote:  CNN stoking violence.

CNN has gone full "punch a Nazi" and we all know Nazi is anyone who disagrees with Jake Tapper, and of course all Trump voters.

And if this was like the rally that Lauren Southern and other people were in during May at Berkeley, this would be very profound.

Now there will be almost no objection to this that actually gains traction thanks to those torches.

Thanks again, cosplayers!

Post: #75

I'm on team "fuck optics," but DM is reporting that someone plowed a Dodge Charger into a crowd of antifas.

Car plows into crowd at white nationalist rally: Driver 'intentionally' accelerates into counter-protesters and hits up to 20 people as riot cops use tear gas to stop violent clashes and a state of emergency is declared

Quote:At least one person is dead after a driver intentionally plowed into a group of anti-fascist protesters hitting up to 20 people in Charlottesville, Virginia, after violent clashes erupted between white nationalists and activists on Saturday.

Video shows the Dodge Charger accelerating into the crowd throwing bodies into the air as people scream before reversing at high speed – it is not known how many people have been injured but one is reported dead.

It came after violent clashes erupted as hundreds of white supremacists including armed militias marched into Charlotesville sparking violent confrontations with the counter protesters. Police cleared the scene with tear gas but the violence continued.

Horrifying video from the scene of the car attack shows blood spattered on the vehicle’s windshield as victims desperately call out for medical help.
A counter protester had allegedly thrown a rock at the car, causing the driver to swivel around and ram into people and cars in its way, before driving off with someone's shoe attached to its bumper.
Local police reported there were at least 20 people hit and three vehicles were involved in the crash.

People are heard screaming and crying in the aftermath of the smash, as blood was splattered on a car's windshield and victims were desperately calling out for medical help.
In addition to the dozen of people hurt in the accident, at least eight people were being treated already for their injures during other destructive clashes between white nationalists and counter-protesters at Emancipation Park before the controversial Unite the Right rally.

President Trump admonished the day's outcome, tweeting: 'Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A. & all that we have done, and are doing, to make it better-but Charlottesville sad!'

There were several hundred protesters marching in a long line when the car drove into a group of them.
A witness claimed the act was intentional. He said: 'Yeah, it was intentional.About 40 miles an hour, hit about 15-20 people, crashed into the two cars in front of it, and then backed up and sped away while cops were standing on the side of the road and didn’t do anything.'
President Donald Trump is tweeting about the violence that has erupted amid a white supremacist march in Virginia.
Trump tweeted Saturday that 'we ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for.' He then wrote 'There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!'
The White House was silent for hours about the clashes except for a solitary tweet from First Lady Melania Trump. The president has received previous criticism for being slow to condemn acts of hate done in his name.
There were several hundred protesters marching in a long line when the car drove into a group of them
A witness claimed the act was intentional. He said : 'Yeah, it was intentional.About 40 miles an hour, hit about 15-20 people, crashed into the two cars in front of it, and then backed up and sped away while cops were standing on the side of the road and didn’t do anything'

Rescue personnel help injured people after a car ran into a large group of protesters after the white nationalist rally

The White House was silent for hours about the clashes except for a solitary tweet from First Lady Melania Trump. The president has received previous criticism for being slow to condemn acts of hate done in his name.

Hundreds were seen stomping through the city, wearing militia uniforms, waving flags and chanting 'Blood and Soil' as they made their way towards the event on Saturday morning.
Counter-protesters flocked to the march in retaliation against the white nationalists, neo-Confederates and alt-right activists, screaming: 'We're here, we're gay, we fight the KKK!'

First Lady Melania Trump tweeted: 'Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence.'
The protest hadn't officially started but social media videos showed the rally was escalating as people were seen throwing objects, breaking out into fights and people spraying mace into the crowd.
Arrests were made after police in riot gear attempted to clear the park and a group of protesters pushed back against them, while the battle between the two protester groups continued to rage on in the streets of the city.

Charlottesville Mayor Mike Signer had denounced the 'cowardly parade of hatred, bigotry, racism, and intolerance march down the lawns of the architect of our Bill of Rights' and warned for residents to stay away from the rally.

Seems antistrategic to me.