Post: #101

(08-09-2017 03:58 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  ...

It's a shame this thread turned into a witch hunt of AS instead of exploring this theme...

This just happened to be the straw (thread) that broke the camel's back, RITW.

I happen to quite like my country, despite it's flaws and faults of which there are far fewer than most other places in the world.

And, frankly, every time I see the words "Australia Sucks" on my screen I feel the urge to tell the ungrateful person that wrote it to fuck the hell off.

It's an affront to my delicate sensibilities. It's like someone took a shit in my office.

The truth of my message is this, and whether it's entirely on-thread or not is something I no longer give a shit about. If "Australia Sucks" hates Australia so much then he shouldn't even wait to save/invest enough to leave and live like a rich welfare bum in poor country. What he in fact should do is set himself up with the pittance someone of his age/skills would have in his country of choice and burn the rest of his money, lest someone get to thinking that he's just an ungrateful brat who's the equivalent of a 25 year old man living in his parent's basement while bitching about having to take out the garbage once in a while.

It's fucking pathetic, and I warned him that this wouldn't be sugar-coated forever. Australia, my beloved nation, was built from grit, spit and hardscrabble determination, apparently so that certain soyfags could bitch about having to "do their time" here as if they have the slightest inkling about what real suffering even looks like before jetting off to stick their dicks in foreign girls on the "easy" setting (not gonna work out the way you're hoping, buddy, let me guarantee you that).

And any arguments to the tune of "it was just an "extrospective" question and in no way related to how I personally feel" can fuck off too. That's frankly pathetic. If "Australia Sucks" wants to shit on the anglosphere than the least he can do is own it.

Post: #102

Witness, O.P., the multitudes of hard-done-by, white, men clamouring to flee their Anglo hellhole prisons, where they erstwhile quaked under the yoke of abundant misery! Where their sexless, first-world sentences of salaried drudgery made One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich seem like a weekend in Disneyland!

See them — leaving their oblivious, blue-pilled brothers behind in the Matrix, sucking The Man's™ dick — flee towards the promised land of the Hispanic New World of Colombia and the Phils, for an emancipated $2 per day existence of milk and honey, with a guaranteed curvaceous, docile Latina per man to attend to their every whim!

(08-09-2017 07:25 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  [...]before jetting off to stick their dicks in foreign girls on the "easy" setting (not gonna work out the way you're hoping, buddy, let me guarantee you that).
[...]

.......

Post: #103

As someone from a first world country who has been living in the 3rd and 2nd world for a long time: Those places are only good if you have a western level income (at least 2k USD a month after taxes). Locals live kinda shitty lives for the most part but they don't know any better.

Getting laid is easy if you have said western income, because few guys do.

Your buildings security guard, the street hustlers and the 7-11 worker may or may not marry down the road as there are plenty of country side girls, but don't think they'll get laid on the regular with anything but hookers.

Getting further education is usually not an option even if they're mentally capable of it.

Now they aren't getting worked to the bone like low level workers in western countries, but it's hardly paradise.

Post: #104

I'll just leave this here:

The West may have its faults (you can read about those in EE/P&W), but at the end of the day, it is relatively stable and safe. It's called the First World for a reason.

Post: #105

This is actually a valid question. I haven't read all of the comments yet but I don't see why OP is getting so much flak. Perhaps it's the tone in which he's framed it. It does sound ungrateful.

As someone born in a developing (now declining) country who grew up in a prosperous one, wealth and baseline quality of life differences aside, the main difference is opportunity.

In the West it's never lacking. It's really up to you to make the most of it.

Elsewhere, you can be really efficient and a go-getter and still fail by Western standards, because there's a ceiling that stops you from moving up.

No matter where you are you should make the most of your circumstances. This is the key difference between a lot of poorer countries and developed ones. Those in the former have had more hardships in life and are as a result, hardened. They're more likely to enjoy the simpler pleasures in life and be content with simply surviving and having a break from constant struggle. Those in developed countries meanwhile have generally never faced a single struggle relative to the others so they're more apathetic about life because they haven't had to work as hard to enjoy themselves and they take every treasure they have for granted.

Post: #106

(08-09-2017 09:13 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  As someone from a first world country who has been living in the 3rd and 2nd world for a long time: Those places are only good if you have a western level income (at least 2k USD a month after taxes). Locals live kinda shitty lives for the most part but they don't know any better.

Getting laid is easy if you have said western income, because few guys do.

I would expand that a bit and say that middle class men (according to their own country's gdp per capita) in developing asia do well in general.

They can afford many of the same "luxuries" which we take for granted due to the lower cost of living for the most part. They also have a larger pool of available and most importantly good women to pull from. I have many middle and upper-middle class friends in Thailand and Philippines. They do very well and don't live all that differently from how I do from a material standpoint. I guess I can afford to go on more vacations but that's mostly a function of owning a remote business.


I believe if you're even half-way smart you can do very well as a local in these countries. On the otherhand in the U.S. all you have to do is not be a fuckup in order to make a decent living. So of course a lot more effort is required in the developing world to make things work.

There's a big social and class barrier sometimes but i've seen many low class to wealth success stories in the past decade to discount the shift in opportunity. I believe asia as a whole has become a mini land of opportunity now. I don't think this is as true for latin America or most other developing regions though.

Post: #107

(08-10-2017 12:19 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(08-09-2017 09:13 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  As someone from a first world country who has been living in the 3rd and 2nd world for a long time: Those places are only good if you have a western level income (at least 2k USD a month after taxes). Locals live kinda shitty lives for the most part but they don't know any better.

Everything is easy if you have said western income, because few guys do.

I would expand that a bit and say that middle class men (according to their own country's gdp per capita) in developing asia do well in general.

They can afford many of the same "luxuries" which we take for granted due to the lower cost of living for the most part. They also have a larger pool of available and most importantly good women to pull from. I have many middle and upper-middle class friends in Thailand and Philippines. They do very well and don't live all that differently from how I do from a material standpoint. I guess I can afford to go on more vacations but that's mostly a function of owning a remote business.


I believe if you're even half-way smart you can do very well as a local in these countries. On the otherhand in the U.S. all you have to do is not be a fuckup in order to make a decent living. So of course a lot more effort is required in the developing world to make things work.

At 2k USD /month / person you are the top 10% in Vietnam, given the average salary is 300-500/month... which makes it a moot point because when you are 10% everywhere you live like a god, even in France or America.

In developing country the income distribution curve is way more curved than in Western, meaning the parity between the 10% vs 5% in China is much greater than in Western country.

About the middle class. I would say the main difference is that in Asia, services industry is based on low labor cost, while in Western countries is based on superb infrastructure yet high labor cost.

In France if you lose your key, tough luck, calling the locksmith would cost up to 300 euro min. In Vietnam? 2$ max. In France you have to be fiflthy rich to have a live-in maid, in Vietnam almost every middle-upper middle class family with a 2-bedroom have one, if not 2 live-in servants.

However, a lot of services that you take for granted here that required great infrastructure like Amazon, high speed internet etc. you can forget about it in developing countries. They do exist but the quality is really really subpar, and the concept of customer service doesn't exist. Going to cinema is relatively more costly in Vietnam.

Whenever I talk to my parents, they tell me grocery prices in France is not much more expensive than in Vietnam. Given the exchange rate this means that to eat well in Vietnam cost a fuckhuge sum.

Really it just comes down to taste. I can't live without good food, wine, and a rich culture, so Europe is better for me. Ironically enough, some Vietnamese martial arts are more taught in France than in Vietnam.

Conversely if you can find a job that pays Western salary but let you live in Thailand, get off the fucking net and get your ass on the plane!

A RVF member I know left France to settle in Hong Kong, still working for the same company with the same salary. His life completely changes and he would never ever go back.

Post: #108

(08-10-2017 03:34 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  At 2k USD /month / person you are the top 10% in Vietnam, given the average salary is 300-500/month... which makes it a moot point because when you are 10% everywhere you live like a god, even in France or America.

Yes but middle class is based on the local GDP per capita and cost of living index. I agree with you that a middle class person in vietnam wouldn't be making 2k usd a month but they would make at least 1k and still be able to live reasonably well based on cost of living.

Whereas 2k USD in the U.S. is more or less quite poor especially on the coasts where the costs skyrocket. The whole concept of middle class is based on relative income of the entire country.

Quote:However, a lot of services that you take for granted here that required great infrastructure like Amazon, high speed internet etc. you can forget about it in developing countries. They do exist but the quality is really really subpar, and the concept of customer service doesn't exist. Going to cinema is relatively more costly in Vietnam.

Internet has improved a lot in many southeast asian countries. I stayed in an airbnb house in HCMC and the internet was very good. In Thailand it's blazing fast these days too. In Philippines it sucks balls still but it's still better than 5 years ago and I see improvement.

It's true that customer service is non existant in most cases but I see it improving a lot when it comes to restaurant and hospitality sector. This is a pretty good indicator that eventually it will roll out to stuff like consumer goods (department stores) and other areas. Customer service is a good indicator of a burgeoning middle class with spending power.

Quote:Conversely if you can find a job that pays Western salary but let you live in Thailand, get off the fucking net and get your ass on the plane!

Pretty much what I do but I rotate between about 4 asian countries these days.

Post: #109

(08-10-2017 06:51 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  Pretty much what I do but I rotate between about 4 asian countries these days.

Which four countries and why that particular combination?

Post: #110

Gente, be ready for a long post.

I disagree with AS. I can't give an inside relate to Western Places, but something that i know is how is the real life for a local in my third world country(Peru).

One thing is to come for a short time, get a nice apartment in Miraflores, be an average white foreigner, open Tinder and bang 5's in an easy way, eat cheap, delicious world class food, visit some sightseeing and return to your country telling: Hey man, Peru is safe, girls are ugly, but easy, It is much better than the West.

In the previous paragraph, i am not judging, i just mention how many foreigners experience Peru. In the other hand, there is a whole different perspective from a local who have the luck to experience unique things in specific places that help me to understand and learn more about Life.

To continue,These are my experiences:

1)My lovely town: I was born and spent most of my life in a small, dangerous town that is some hours from Lima.

The average salary is between 100 to 300 dollars per month, working 8/10 hours per 6 days. After 7 pm, People start to go to their houses to spend a couple of hours with their family. Some streets are really dangerous, it is common that criminals kill you to steal your pocket or cellphone. Also the small businesses(tiendas, negocios) and taxi drivers should pay a monthly "Cupo"(money) to Criminal Organizations for avoiding attacks against their families.

Despite of that, Authorities do nothing. They even have connection with these illegal organizations.About girls, I can count with my fingers, the number of hot ones there. In my case, I still visit my town every weekend to see my closed family. I take the crowded metro and a colectivo (car) for 3 hours to arrive. After that, i walk 4 shady dangerous blocks to see my lovely grandmom with a big smile, waiting me with some delicious homemade food.

In my town, I can have a blast with 10 dollars, buying 6 beers and chatting with my friends or dancing for hours with one of my girlfriends in a local bar. I don't need more than 2 dollars to have a decent lunch. Saying this, even with the difficult situation there,I feel so good and happy in my town, also locals tend to be so polite, hardworking and nice.

2)Lima:I am in the capital from Monday to Friday. I wake up 5:30 am, two hours to my workplace, i work from 7:30 am to 5:30 pm, i return to home between 7:30 to 8:00 pm. Hopefully, i have a colleague who lives near me and he has car, if not, i would be as the average peruvian in the crowded metro and combis(small shitty buses) spending more time.

I can't see my friends because they live so far from me, they also work many hours as me. I can tell stories of many peruanos going to work at 4:30 am and returning home 10:00 pm to prepare their food for the next day, earning less than 300 dollars.

Now AS said that his peruvian girl earn $1400 and have time and enough money to travel, jajaja, She earns more than 2 or 4 times than other peruanos who can't afford a house/apartment in a nice place,instead of this, a dangerous place is their home.

3)Communities: Summarizing, i have been and lived for days with families in some second and third tier peruvian cities. No electricity, no Internet, no water or per hours, not many things to do, children should walk for an hour to be in a bad infrastructure basic school. Despite of this, People threat me as part of their family and was a good moment to share and learn from them.

I would like to know if someone from the West can live in this environment.

The last part:

I have lived the luxury, average and poor life that Peru has to offer. I would say that the reason why we show a smile or try to be happy is because we want to be optimistic and think that our life can be much better in a future. Plus, Our friends and family, we feel comfortable. Maybe that's why we love to dance, be talkative, show feelings, enjoy or smile to forget the hard reality we should face it. Surely, there are some great professional peruvians who make a decent money, but they are not average in any meaning.

To AS, Who said "poor westerners who have to fight for a chubby, ugly girl" jaja. Man, you have no idea about the arrogant, bitchy, racist behavior of many peruanas against the average peruano. Anyways, i won't denied that i much prefer and have great results with gringas over peruanas, but i learned some game and i am dealing quiet well in both sides.

I also have to admit that i am bored of my job, kills my time for bad payment, so i am running an online project( Thanks a lot Shimmy and Zoom for their support and idea) to travel and work at the same time.

To conclude, despite of the obstacles that my country has, i love it a big part of my life here. I think that you are a drone when you give up and don't look for the bright side and solutions. There are drones in Poor and Rich countries. Just my advice is that You shouldn't hate Australia or blame the Western just for the women or other issues, true that they affect, but At least you have first world infrastructure, services, safer and decent money. I would like to see the face of a latin when he hear that He can earn enough money until their middle 30's to stop working and enjoying life.

The day you change your mind, the world won't suck. At least, With your Money from Australia, you could visit some countries that many poor people in third countries won't visit. Think in that and TRY to be more positive and happy.

Saludos, Drix

Post: #111

Drix, thank you for that excellent and honest post. +1 from me.

Post: #112

(08-10-2017 11:52 AM)Drix Wrote:  Gente, be ready for a long post.

I disagree with AS. I can't give an inside relate to Western Places, but something that i know is how is the real life for a local in my third world country(Peru).

One thing is to come for a short time, get a nice apartment in Miraflores, be an average white foreigner, open Tinder and bang 5's in an easy way, eat cheap, delicious world class food, visit some sightseeing and return to your country telling: Hey man, Peru is safe, girls are ugly, but easy, It is much better than the West.

In the previous paragraph, i am not judging, i just mention how many foreigners experience Peru. In the other hand, there is a whole different perspective from a local who have the luck to experience unique things in specific places that help me to understand and learn more about Life.

To continue,These are my experiences:

1)My lovely town: I was born and spent most of my life in a small, dangerous town that is some hours from Lima.

The average salary is between 100 to 300 dollars per month, working 8/10 hours per 6 days. After 7 pm, People start to go to their houses to spend a couple of hours with their family. Some streets are really dangerous, it is common that criminals kill you to steal your pocket or cellphone. Also the small businesses(tiendas, negocios) and taxi drivers should pay a monthly "Cupo"(money) to Criminal Organizations for avoiding attacks against their families.

Despite of that, Authorities do nothing. They even have connection with these illegal organizations.About girls, I can count with my fingers, the number of hot ones there. In my case, I still visit my town every weekend to see my closed family. I take the crowded metro and a colectivo (car) for 3 hours to arrive. After that, i walk 4 shady dangerous blocks to see my lovely grandmom with a big smile, waiting me with some delicious homemade food.

In my town, I can have a blast with 10 dollars, buying 6 beers and chatting with my friends or dancing for hours with one of my girlfriends in a local bar. I don't need more than 2 dollars to have a decent lunch. Saying this, even with the difficult situation there,I feel so good and happy in my town, also locals tend to be so polite, hardworking and nice.

2)Lima:I am in the capital from Monday to Friday. I wake up 5:30 am, two hours to my workplace, i work from 7:30 am to 5:30 pm, i return to home between 7:30 to 8:00 pm. Hopefully, i have a colleague who lives near me and he has car, if not, i would be as the average peruvian in the crowded metro and combis(small shitty buses) spending more time.

I can't see my friends because they live so far from me, they also work many hours as me. I can tell stories of many peruanos going to work at 4:30 am and returning home 10:00 pm to prepare their food for the next day, earning less than 300 dollars.

Now AS said that his peruvian girl earn $1400 and have time and enough money to travel, jajaja, She earns more than 2 or 4 times than other peruanos who can't afford a house/apartment in a nice place,instead of this, a dangerous place is their home.

3)Communities: Summarizing, i have been and lived for days with families in some second and third tier peruvian cities. No electricity, no Internet, no water or per hours, not many things to do, children should walk for an hour to be in a bad infrastructure basic school. Despite of this, People threat me as part of their family and was a good moment to share and learn from them.

I would like to know if someone from the West can live in this environment.

The last part:

I have lived the luxury, average and poor life that Peru has to offer. I would say that the reason why we show a smile or try to be happy is because we want to be optimistic and think that our life can be much better in a future. Plus, Our friends and family, we feel comfortable. Maybe that's why we love to dance, be talkative, show feelings, enjoy or smile to forget the hard reality we should face it. Surely, there are some great professional peruvians who make a decent money, but they are not average in any meaning.

To AS, Who said "poor westerners who have to fight for a chubby, ugly girl" jaja. Man, you have no idea about the arrogant, bitchy, racist behavior of many peruanas against the average peruano. Anyways, i won't denied that i much prefer and have great results with gringas over peruanas, but i learned some game and i am dealing quiet well in both sides.

I also have to admit that i am bored of my job, kills my time for bad payment, so i am running an online project( Thanks a lot Shimmy and Zoom for their support and idea) to travel and work at the same time.

To conclude, despite of the obstacles that my country has, i love it a big part of my life here. I think that you are a drone when you give up and don't look for the bright side and solutions. There are drones in Poor and Rich countries. Just my advice is that You shouldn't hate Australia or blame the Western just for the women or other issues, true that they affect, but At least you have first world infrastructure, services, safer and decent money. I would like to see the face of a latin when he hear that He can earn enough money until their middle 30's to stop working and enjoying life.

The day you change your mind, the world won't suck. At least, With your Money from Australia, you could visit some countries that many poor people in third countries won't visit. Think in that and TRY to be more positive and happy.

Saludos, Drix

¡Great post! this is the true depiction of the latin american average "joe". I can relate to most of this.

Post: #113

Bottom Line....in the West, especially the U.S. you will make a lot of money, we are the World's ATM....but(news flash) most people in the West/U.S. don't live, they work and look at their bank accounts and then look into the mirror and find that they are too old to enjoy the money..so yes, IMO men in developing countries "Live" better...Remember you can buy almost anything on this earth...except youth...the West demands your most valuable asset.....your youth...that's Capitalism...isn't it great?

Post: #114

(08-11-2017 09:58 PM)dsutmdo Wrote:  Bottom Line....in the West, especially the U.S. you will make a lot of money, we are the World's ATM....but(news flash) most people in the West/U.S. don't live, they work and look at their bank accounts and then look into the mirror and find that they are too old to enjoy the money..so yes, IMO men in developing countries "Live" better...Remember you can buy almost anything on this earth...except youth...the West demands your most valuable asset.....your youth...that's Capitalism...isn't it great?

I agree that there are many people in the west who do live to work and not the other way around, however, there are plenty of people who do not and its up to each guy to figure what type of lifestyle he wants. I notice a common theme here on RVF of guys complaining about how bad life in Anglo countries is but then I see that they live in these rat race, competitive cities like Sydney, Toronto, etc and they NEVER write about going out into the country side and experiencing the great out doors, which in my opinion is the best thing that countries such as Canada, Oz and the US have to offer.

I just spent a few days visiting a friend in a small resort town in the Canadian Rockies, the guy rents a room in a house, has a beater truck and has been collecting unemployment benefits for the past two months (he works in the oil sands a few months each year) and the guy is getting more ass than a toilet seat and doing cool shit like hiking, mountain biking, kite surfing and fishing everyday. There are tons of foreign cuties working there (very international crowd) and you don't need much to impress these girls, an extra kayak or fishing rod and a bag of ganja will do.

I feel sorry for you guys who are trapped in concrete jungles and never take the time to drive out into the bush and breath some fresh air, shoot guns, have a bon fire, etc. You'll bitch about how rotten life in the west is but really, many of you have never fully experienced what your own countries have to offer. Then you'll fly across the world to another concrete jungle and swipe girls on Tinder all night from your hotel and still get flaked on haha, great life fellas.

Post: #115

(08-12-2017 12:18 PM)scotian Wrote:  I notice a common theme here on RVF of guys complaining about how bad life in Anglo countries is but then I see that they live in these rat race, competitive cities like Sydney, Toronto, etc and they NEVER write about going out into the country side and experiencing the great out doors, which in my opinion is the best thing that countries such as Canada, Oz and the US have to offer.

So true, I've traveled all three of these countries and concur that the abundance of natural wonder in these countries is breathtaking. Ok ok, so it may not be at an arms-reach for those living in a big city, but all it takes is a bit of preparation, some patience, some petrol money and a car to get out there amongst mother nature. Yes, every country has its own natural beauty, but let's be honest the natural beauty of Aus, Canada and US has gotta be in the top 50 out of ~200 countries, not to mention to affluence available to be able to enjoy said places.

But bringing it back to the topic at hand, which is birds.

Yes I agree that birds in anglosphere countries are generally rubbish....

BUT, I'd like to make a counter-argument, which is - All of these anglosphere countries have fairly comprehensive short-term visa and also long-term immigration policies, and these countries are very attractive to foreign birds for work, study, travel and immigration. Therein lies the silver lining.

Life is what we make of it.

And one thing I've noticed is - the key to doing well in anglosphere countries is having a "niche". Being in a neighbourhood where foreign birds stay in your city is absolutely going to offer you to access to that niche.

So, in summary, the Anglosphere possesses this unique opportunity because of its high standard of living to have foreigner enclaves that can be enjoyed if you put yourself in the right logistics.

I stayed several months in my Anglosphere city last summer and enjoyed 3 Brazilians, a Norwegian, a Swiss, 2 French, a German, a Swede, a Chilean and a Hong Kongnese... Yes, I was in Australia but did not bother with even one local girl

C'est la vie

Post: #116

(08-12-2017 12:18 PM)scotian Wrote:  I feel sorry for you guys who are trapped in concrete jungles and never take the time to drive out into the bush and breath some fresh air, shoot guns, have a bon fire, etc. You'll bitch about how rotten life in the west is but really, many of you have never fully experienced what your own countries have to offer. Then you'll fly across the world to another concrete jungle and swipe girls on Tinder all night from your hotel and still get flaked on haha, great life fellas.

Leonard Neubache put out a datasheet about country life a few months ago. /thread-63089...ral+living

Post: #117

I have to tread carefully. While the OP may need a bit of an attitude adjustment, I admit to being puzzled at the wrath that descended upon him. Is this site and ROK in general not filled with posts and essays hammering home in various ways the decline of W Europe and the Anglosphere? Are not the women of these nations savaged repeatedly? Aren't there numerous threads extolling the virtues of Latin American, Asian and Eastern European women? I've never been to Australia but due to my advanced age I have seen and experienced the precipitous decline of my own country (USA). I see life in the so called advanced West as being pretty much soul sapping. Yes I know many who have high incomes and on the surface anyway happy and satisfied lives. It doesn't change the fact that overall trends are downward.

If I knew the OP, who I assume is still young, I would tell him to enjoy the many positive aspects of his home country. Take solace in that and any network of family and friends he might have. All the while saving and preparing for the great adventure he seems to desire. That and have a backup plan if the dream doesn't match the reality. It's going to be a bumpy ride the next couple of decades. Now even monuments to Abraham Lincoln are not even safe in my country. The west is unraveling and I don't blame young men who have a desire for a freer more satisfying life.

Lastly, like I said I've never been to Australia but the Australian men I have met along the way have been great guys. Masculine, positive and friendly.

Post: #118

(08-08-2017 11:11 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:01 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  OP, if you think that you need poverty to be happy, or less choices/opportunities/potential distractions... maybe you just need to work on your mental strength?

My girlfriend sometimes makes statements like this. I call this the "authenticity fallacy". In our zeitgeist, we deem poor or low class or zero material possessions to be "authentic", and everything else is inauthentic (including, presumably, language and fitness and any kind of private property at all).

You will hear very dumb people saying very dumb things like "the people in Africa are so happy".

The better question, already stated here, is "why are Westerners so ungrateful?".

It's not poverty that makes them happier than Americans.

Average folks in some of these countries have stronger social bonds, on average, across all social classes, rich folks as well as poor folks.

We're social animals.

Your average American's way of life is not healthy. Many Americans don't even know their neighbors and spend hours every day online getting triggered or watching movies/tv instead of socializing...it's not healthy long term, and results in strain on the human animal.

Eventually you get the high divorce rates, the high use of antidepressants and recreational drugs, the workaholism, the over-eating, etc., all ways to lash out at, or cope with, a very mentally and physically unhealthy environment, on average.

It's like a parrot that tears its feathers out from various forms of stress. You see a lot less of these things in some countries.