Post: #1

Brief background: been in the game for a decade, banged ~ 90 girls, but eventually got higher standards in my mid 20s, and found that I could rarely pass the high 6/low 7 ceiling (only slept with maybe 10, no more than 15 or so girls who were 7.5-8, no 9s). In the last spurt of gaming I was only approaching 7.5 and above and didnt get laid in 2000 approaches. I don't enjoy casual sex with girls below that (I think its natural after such a count) so when I did dip below that it felt unsatisfying and didn't help momentum or anything.

I met a girl who is in my league (high 6) and we ended up being very compatible and the sex is good, so when she ultimatumed for LTR I accepted, given the situation.

In general I'm a bit stuck in my league. At 31 I should be peak SMV but at this point I am a high 6 myself, despite a decade of fairly hard work.
1) my physique is at its peak (naturally, at least) I've spent a lot of time at the gym
2) I've done about 10000 approaches in my life, actively studied and worked on my game, spent about $4000 in total on coaching. I've hung out with plenty of naturals and guys good and game and had many mentors. The problem is I have aspergers, which means I have trouble reading subtle social cues and am very unexpressive with my voice and facial expressions, so essentially uncharismatic. Out of intelligence and lots of practice I am reasonably socially apt and hardly anyone can tell except people that know me well, and thus have a good social life and have banged lots of girls (occasionally even hot ones) but otherwise hot girls find that something is off or awkward, are typically bored by my presence as I have a hard time stimulating their emotions, and in general game is very advanced social skills. Perhaps with more coaching, say several bootcamps a year and regular skype coaching etc I can correct it with brute force, but I dont have the money for this, which is related to,
3) I'm in an awkward situation where I absolutely love my job but it is very competitive to even be able to do it indefinitely, and beyond that it is rare to make lots of money with it, and in any event will take many years to happen. And I would prefer a job I love vs high income at a soul crushing job (which I could get with my background). Thus I cannot really go the route of making lots of money to improve my status, and certainly not in the future (although I hate materialistic girls to begin with, anyway)

So I am a bit stuck as to being able to.improve my SMV. I have a gf who loves me and can be quite good to me. Now there are many problems, perhaps some of which are unrelated and still important, that result in constant stress and fighting, but I suspect one major issue is that I can't seem to fully appreciate and adore her as appropriate for an LTR. I feel rather bad about it, both morally from the perspective of being good to people good to me. But also from the perspective of I'm fairly stuck in terms of my ability to get girls that I could conceivably be passionate about, or at the least it appears I need to experience more 8s just to know what it is like before my body seems to be satisfied with settling down. At the same time it feels like I'd be throwing away someone who has a strong level of wanting to be with me for a highly improbable and possibly not even that important outcome, which would be at best immature and at worst deeply regretful.

Options of course include,
1) Stay with her try to cultivate a stronger appreciation for her. Big question is how, practically speaking? I do make an effort to do this, but somehow things come out inadvertantly that seems.to betray my not being in love.
2) Leave her go back to game and working on myself. Big question again is, how?
3) Cheat and work on myself and game while seeing her. A bit of best of both worlds here, but beyond the potential consequences, the biggest issue is I fear simply not having time to both go out and see her regularly enough
4) work on myself and my smv (again, how?) But without gaming while staying with her, but having an 'exit plan' if and once some aspect of my value comes to fruition. Negatives being a bit cruel to her, and also perhaps I wont work as hard subconsciously in this situation

Looking for fresh interesting perspectives on this one. Thanks!

Post: #2

Your relationship is doomed. You already resent her and she will accept that sooner or later. I would be concerned that she already knows you wont be happy with her but for whatever reason she's trying to get you on the hook regardless. Wimmens is crazy like that.

Is travel an option? Surely you could get your dick up for an exotic 6.

Post: #3

Well that's a rather bleak perspective. There is no way to successfully perform option 1?

I have travelled extensively, have 20 or 25 or whatever flags. Just like quantity in general, it's been there done that doesn't do anything for me anymore.

Post: #4

I can only speak from experience.

I was mental for my wife from day one and through all the shit we've had to grind through it's only that intense bond that got us through it together.

I never had to try to cultivate what we have. Never.

I have to ask, have you ever had those kind of feels, even when you were younger?

Post: #5

I see.

I wonder then if emotional numbness is part of my overall condition?

My last serious gf I was fairly nuts about, she was a 7.5 with incredible legs (so higher league than me, but without going into details I was in a fortunate situation of being in a position of status over her in a particular environment so was able to get her), but turned out to be borderline pd, it was rather traumatic. So maybe this contributes as well

With my current gf, when things were nice and pleasant I would strongly enjoy her company, but no it wasn't quite the same thing.

Post: #6

Option 2 sounds like your best option.

You are having constant arguing and drama in your life. It will bring down your life, hurt your growth, damage your finances, worsen your health, hurt your social prospects, etc etc.

I did option 2 in 2013. Its when I joined here. I was with a woman I knew I wouldn't create a life with. She was "my perfect catch" We had an intense very sexual 2 years together. Former model, earned well into six figures, amazing real tits, her family loved me, etc etc. I had to break up with her b/c it wasn't going to work out. I did Option 2. I've never doubted my decision.

When I did Option 2 in 2013, I only approached a little bit. I was shy and socially awkward after my divorce in 2011. I could barely talk to women. I joined here, started approaching, and have gotten to over 1000 approaches and banged over 70 women. I now pick a woman I want to go after, and I have a very high level of success when I pick the woman I want, via approach, social, online, etc. I too have spent over $2000 on game materials. I have traveled all over the world, doubled my income, have lost weight and built muscle, have a lot more friends and a good social life. I am having fun right now.

My only regret during Option 2; when I got the skills to date pretty much any woman I set my sights on, I picked one, fell for her hard, then got my heart crushed. I am just now over it. The forum, friends, etc, got me over it. Its a phenomenon lots of game writers talk about; you get good, get your 9, you cant stop approaching/gaming, she breaks up with you, you get super depressed and wrecks you. This happened to me, its very common in the game.

Option 2 - you will become the best version of yourself. You could get to the next level in the job you love(who can say that), you can develop into the best version of yourself. No one is worth that much to you, as a single man. The only time to reconsider shedding excess baggage is a wife and kids. Then you take years to make that decision. Option 2, let us know your progress.

Post: #7

Your diagnosed condition might be a contributing factor.

If the sad case were true that you're not capable of traditionally falling in love then I would suggest you need to arrange a future with a woman with more of a mind to arranging it like a business contract.

If you've ever cared for anyone on any level then you can at least extend that care to a woman even if it's not love in the old fashioned sense, but the relationship needs to be approached that way from the start.

If your current woman has any misgivings about your capacity to truly care for her then you need to make it abundantly clear to her that you're just not wired that way and never will be. If she can't accept that then you need to move on, because otherwise there will always be expectations of "progress" in the relationship that never materialise.

Post: #8

Vaun,
Yes, the drama is problematic, but perhaps if I can learn to appreciate the girl better it will end?

Thanks for sharing your journey. The problem is I am an entirely at a loss in terms of how to actually work on and improve myself, I've largely exhausted the options available for me. I've maxed my looks, my game, and my finances, for the most part. Possibly some low probability but high level success event will take place in years in the future that I can strive towards, but generally speaking there is no avenue I am.aware of that would raise my SMV from a high 6 to even a high 7 in a years time, or even a few years.

Why didnt it work out with the perfect match actually? Seemed like in your case you were very into her?

Post: #9

Leonard,
That makes sense. I have been in love and generally passionate about women before, but indeed only very rarely and with girls above my league.

I think there is also an underlying resentment towards women, and, unfortunately towards her, as a representative of the fact that I'm not able to sleep with 8s. That's of course unfair to her and childish.

In any event I do try to emphasize that I care but often things turn out that I slip in some inadvertant way and accidentally display this lack of passion.

But yes it is a good point I should emphasize me not loving her is due to my condition (in a sense both directly and indirectly, although she shouldn't know the latter) but does not reflect a negative opinion or anything.

Post: #10

(07-05-2017 06:54 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  Vaun,
Yes, the drama is problematic, but perhaps if I can learn to appreciate the girl better it will end?

There is nothing good that will come from this. This type of thinking above will only serve to hold you back in life. Its like continually hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, expecting it to one day feel good. It never will. Relationships only worsen over time.

Your entire perspective about yourself may change when you become independent again, and free. Your thoughts and imagination, and creativity, will likely open up again. Even though you currently can't think of another way to improve yourself, that will likely change, especially when you escape a bad relationship. Think of what having complete independence will do for your imagination and creativity.

(07-05-2017 06:54 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  Why didnt it work out with the perfect match actually? Seemed like in your case you were very into her?

Truthfully, I was not ready to get married and have babies again, so soon. Thats all she wanted in life. I was not the right man for that. 6 months later after we split for good she was engaged, a year later married to what looks like a nice guy who wants what she does. She tried for over two years to make me the one. I loved her and still do, and wanted her to get what she wanted in life.

Post: #11

This forum...

Quote:I was with a woman I knew I wouldn't create a life with. She was "my perfect catch" We had an intense very sexual 2 years together. Former model, earned well into six figures, amazing real tits, her family loved me, etc etc. I had to break up with her b/c it wasn't going to work out. I did Option 2. I've never doubted my decision.

(07-05-2017 07:01 AM)Vaun Wrote:  ...
Truthfully, I was not ready to get married and have babies again, so soon. Thats all she wanted in life. I was not the right man for that. 6 months later after we split for good she was engaged, a year later married to what looks like a nice guy who wants what she does. She tried for over two years to make me the one. I loved her and still do, and wanted her to get what she wanted in life.

And all the incels read this and say...

Post: #12

(07-05-2017 05:44 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  Now there are many problems, perhaps some of which are unrelated and still important, that result in constant stress and fighting, but I suspect one major issue is that I can't seem to fully appreciate and adore her as appropriate for an LTR....At the same time it feels like I'd be throwing away someone who has a strong level of wanting to be with me for a highly improbable and possibly not even that important outcome, which would be at best immature and at worst deeply regretful.

Constant stress and fighting, but you feel like it'd be immature and regretful to leave because she wants you to stay?

Listen to Vaun. He's right. You will not advance in this situation. It is weighing you down. Being committed to a woman creates a whole network of responsibilities which you must fulfill and this usually means that there are other opportunities you must sacrifice or compromise: to travel, to take night classes, to take a job in another city, to bang, whatever. You have articulated clearly that you are making decisions based on her needs and not yours, and this isn't going to work forever.

Post: #13

Vaun,
That seems like wishful impractical thinking, if I had as many resources (physical and psychological) to try to improve my smv before dating her as I do now, why would I be able to suddenly come up with a solution, when all avenues have already been exhausted anyway?

Post: #14

(07-05-2017 07:35 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  That seems like wishful impractical thinking, if I had as many resources (physical and psychological) to try to improve my smv before dating her as I do now, why would I be able to suddenly come up with a solution, when all avenues have already been exhausted anyway?

Re-read your own sentences:

"I feel rather bad about it, both morally from the perspective of being good to people good to me."

"constant stress and fighting"

She's not that good to you, bro.

I've seen no indication here that you believe this relationship makes your life better. You're simply in it, according to your own words, because you're worried about hurting her.

Don't be. If she's even remotely desirable, the day you leave her smartphone will light up like...



...meanwhile, all the stress and fighting stops.

If I'm wrong and misunderstanding you, if you truly want her in your life, then go with God. All I'm hearing, though, is "this bitch is a pain my ass, but I want to feel like the hero of this story so I'm going to endure all the suffering".

Post: #15

Jetset,
But I strongly suspect much of the drama will disappear if I were to be able to cultivate appreciation for her positive qualities, and if not necessarily fall in love her, enjoy her so much so as to do so. Of course if I am able to treat her 100% well and still there are constant conflicts, then certainly I should end things. But if the underlying problem is that I can only have passion for women above my league, there's no solution to that problem, either I have to change my inner blueprint for feeling passion for a girl, or I need to change my SMV. Both feel impossible, honestly, but I don't know which is more impossible.



I am not exactly sure what I would gain by dropping her. A bit more time I guess, but then it will be limited, do I spend that time approaching? What's the point if I won't get any result (I can get casual sex with many 6s but I dont derive pleasure from that, and I can't get girls hotter than that, or at least very rarely)? Do I spend my time working harder on things to improve my income as fast as possible? Then that will take years, at best, to come to fruition, and then I won't be spending any time pursuing women and hence be celibate, which is not good for anyone's mental and physical health.

Post: #16

(07-05-2017 07:50 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  But I strongly suspect much of the drama will disappear if I were to be able to cultivate appreciation for her positive qualities

Please describe this "drama", "stress", and "fighting".

Quote:I am not exactly sure what I would gain by dropping her.

It's about what you'll lose: drama, stress, and fighting.

Quote:Then that will take years, at best, to come to fruition, and then I won't be spending any time pursuing women and hence be celibate, which is not good for anyone's mental and physical health.

Neither is drama, stress, and fighting. My prediction here is that if you stay in this situation, you will spend years with nothing to show for it.

However, if you explain the nature of the drama, stress, and fighting, it might shed some light on where the problem is.

Post: #17

She's dramatic about several things. Problems in her life, and then my inability or unwillingness to take the time to help her with these problems. Partially true. Otherwise various things where she has to ask many times to spend more time with me, or go somewhere with her, or things of the sort. I tend to be resistant out of laziness or lack of interest, or discomfort having to be with her in another place and feeling a bit ashamed my league is a 6, or otherwise many of these problems seem to come from my not being as enthralled with her as I should.

Post: #18

Sweet fucking Jesus.

Eject for fuck's sake.

How can someone who's made 2000 approaches recently and spent thousands of dollars of game coaching not realise that he's in a co-dependant shit-show of a relationship?

No offence, mate. Step outside the situation and look at it objectively. The more you type about it the more you reveal it to be an unmitigated clusterfuck.

Post: #19

(07-05-2017 08:19 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  She's dramatic about several things. Problems in her life, and then my inability or unwillingness to take the time to help her with these problems. Partially true. Otherwise various things where she has to ask many times to spend more time with me, or go somewhere with her, or things of the sort. I tend to be resistant out of laziness or lack of interest, or discomfort having to be with her in another place and feeling a bit ashamed my league is a 6, or otherwise many of these problems seem to come from my not being as enthralled with her as I should.

I expected that you would say this. That's why I asked, to get it out in the open.

This is a remedial lesson and you should take it to heart:

She is not dramatic because you don't pay enough attention to her.

She is dramatic because she wants to control you.

Do you understand the difference?

If you reward her bad behavior by giving her the attention she craves, she will learn to become more dramatic to get more of your attention. If anything, it is your failure to give her attention that is causing her to need to be with you.

This cycle will not stop until she either feels that she has successfully taken control of you and becomes bored, or until her demands become so great that the stress has broken you. Men die from the stress of being with a dysfunctional woman every day.

You are not the problem. It doesn't matter how much she "wants to be with you". She is not being good to you. She is immature and manipulative. You are codependant. A good woman will try to make your life feel better, not worse. Full stop. You need to break your slave chains and go breath free air for a while.

Post: #20

Leonard,
I don't understand. In what sense is this co-dependant or unhealthy?

She's unhappy and dramatic. I suspect part of that is my bitterness with being a 6 in smv and thus not being passionate for her, despite being very compatible. I'd like to fix this, and be able to look past the looks. Obviously if I get past this and there is still drama, then I should leave.

Is it possible to make myself appreciate her good qualities and treat her with more passion? How can I do this?

Alternatively, if I cannot cultivate passion for her, is the inability of me being passionate about women due to my mental condition or due to my dating league?

If the former, I am not aware of any effective treatment for the disorder.

If the latter, I am not aware of any avenues of improving my smv that are available to me and that I have not tried.

I don't understand how this is not a rather complicated and difficult situation to navigate?

Post: #21

Jetset,
Oh I see. So you suspect she may have a personality disorder of some kind as well? One friend/wing suspected as much, and in my case I think she has undiagnosed depression. I am not sure.

That said I wouldn't say she is fundamentally a bad person by any means. And in this case she has done quite a bit for me, has essentially designed her job situation to be with me (complicated to give details), she regularly does nice things for me, she does anything I want sexually, and so on. And I can understand from a point of view that I don't tend to prioritize spending time with her as much as most guys, even alpha ones, spend time with their girlfriends. Part of that is that I don't have as strong a compulsion to be around her as much as I did, with, say, the few 8s I have dated, in a general sense, and I have at least a suspicion that if I had that she'd get a reasonable amount of time and affection from me. Of course if that even then wasn't enough then your hypothesis is entirely correct and she cannot be satisfied in any scenario.

Post: #22

(07-05-2017 08:38 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  Jetset,
Oh I see. So you suspect she may have a personality disorder of some kind as well? One friend/wing suspected as much, and in my case I think she has undiagnosed depression. I am not sure.

If you suspect she's mentally ill, I'm not understanding why you continue to believe that you are the one with the problem who needs to work harder to make her happy.

A person who suffers from true clinical depression literally lacks the mechanisms to experience happiness. It doesn't matter how hard you try.

What you're being told in this thread is that you are not the one who needs to change. She is. I understand that American Disney Culture teaches us that a good man will solve a woman's problems and she will reward him with eternal love, but that is not how things work in real life. Even if it were within your power to solve her problems, you would simply be elevating her at your own expense.

What happens when her life becomes wonderful at your hand, and you are a broken, battered shell of a man from fighting her battles for her? Most likely, she'll bounce away to get stuffed by happier cocks.

This isn't even a personality disorder. It doesn't make her a "bad person". It's just how things work with human beings sometimes. Her unhappiness isn't your job. It's her job. If she has a mental problem, she should see a psychologist, not take it out on you.

Post: #23

Sorry I edited my post while you were replying.

I am not so clear on these matters, identifying what is the problem. It is either a disorder on her part, a disorder on my part, or both. I am not sure which, and of course it could be any one of the options. At least I know I have a disorder and only suspect she could. But isn't it fair to, well not fix my disorder as it has no treatment, but at least figure out how to eliminate the unfortunate symptoms in the context of relationships? In which case then I can see for certain then that is her issues and not mine (or if they are mine the ltr would be fixed).

I certainly agree that if I treat her like I did, say, I would treat an 8 who would be dating me, and she'd still be unhappy, then certainly that is an unworkable situation and she will destroy me and I need to let her go.

Post: #24

In any event what would be my exit plan?

Continuing to approach 7.5+s seems senseless if they are above my league. 1 in 2000 seems like a rather poor investment of time.

I get no joy out of casual sex with 6s. Should I instead aim to make friends with lots of 6s and pick the one most mentally healthy and likes me the most?

Forego women for a few years and work on my career and other pursuits to improve smv?

I know it's tangential, but at least knowing what my future could look like is an important part of making the right decisions out of maturity and not senseless delusion on the one hand, and scarcity fears on the other.

Post: #25

(07-05-2017 08:58 AM)Tank_ Wrote:  At least I know I have a disorder and only suspect she could. But isn't it fair to, well not fix my disorder as it has no treatment, but at least figure out how to eliminate the unfortunate symptoms in the context of relationships?

There are, of course, things you can do to work on improving your social awareness, but what I keep hearing is that you simply don't feel passionate about this woman. If it's true that your condition is untreatable and is simply a part of who you are, then wouldn't it make more sense to find a woman who treats you with consideration and respect as you are and as you want to be, instead of berating you until you cave in and be the person she thinks you should be?

This is why Leonard told you this is codependent and unhealthy. Whether she realizes it or not, she is engaging in abusive control behavior - "give me what I want or I'll make your life hell" - and you are taking pride in your belief that you will be a good person and save her from her unhappiness if you make enough personal sacrifices for her.

Forget about "fairness". This is your life. She isn't coming to you from a position of love and respect, she's filling your life with drama, stress, and fighting. Those are your words. She can go make somebody else miserable. You will get old and die wasting time on this.