Post: #1

I would like to thank this site and this board. It is the place where I first learned about ayahuasca. Several posters here encouraged me to do it. Now I've done 37 ceremonies since my first on 12 September 2014. I also just got back from an actual retreat in Peru, which was an amazing experience.

Now I am inspired to open my own place. I certainly want to learn more about ayahuasca and how it works. But I am also asking myself: "Where should I do it?"

Ideally, I would like a country with a tropical climate, where I could possibly grow it on my own. I would also like a country that speaks either English or Spanish. I am looking for a good legal environment. I am also looking for a country where family values are still important (like South America).

Probably the majority of centers are in Peru, and most of those are in and around Iquitos. But there are others around Tarapoto and Pucallpa. Outside the Amazona, there are retreats around Cusco and Lima.

Ayahuasca retreats are also in Ecuador, Colombia, and Bolivia. You can also find it in Brazil, but I don't want to learn Portuguese. It is explicitly illegal in Chile, and I don't know about Argentina or Uruguay. Other countries are too remote to consider.

I would also consider any country in Central America or the Caribbean. Centers are also opening in Mexico.

The USA is out. Canada is out.

So, what do you think would be the best option? Thank you.

Post: #2

Turn on, Tune in and Drop out!

Post: #3

(06-18-2017 02:58 PM)puckerman Wrote:  I would like to thank this site and this board. It is the place where I first learned about ayahuasca. Several posters here encouraged me to do it. Now I've done 37 ceremonies since my first on 12 September 2014. I also just got back from an actual retreat in Peru, which was an amazing experience.

Now I am inspired to open my own place. I certainly want to learn more about ayahuasca and how it works. But I am also asking myself: "Where should I do it?"

Ideally, I would like a country with a tropical climate, where I could possibly grow it on my own. I would also like a country that speaks either English or Spanish. I am looking for a good legal environment. I am also looking for a country where family values are still important (like South America).

Probably the majority of centers are in Peru, and most of those are in and around Iquitos. But there are others around Tarapoto and Pucallpa. Outside the Amazona, there are retreats around Cusco and Lima.

Ayahuasca retreats are also in Ecuador, Colombia, and Bolivia. You can also find it in Brazil, but I don't want to learn Portuguese. It is explicitly illegal in Chile, and I don't know about Argentina or Uruguay. Other countries are too remote to consider.

I would also consider any country in Central America or the Caribbean. Centers are also opening in Mexico.

The USA is out. Canada is out.

So, what do you think would be the best option? Thank you.

Tijuana, Mexico. Where gringos go for cheap treatments.
San Miguel de Allende, Mexico. This is a gringo town full packed of retireees who got sick of fishing in Oregon, lots of Vietnam vets.
Playa del Cramen, Mexico. Check out my data sheet.
Havana, Cuba. No, wait. President Trump gives a shit about Cuba.

Post: #4

(06-18-2017 03:24 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  Tijuana, Mexico. Where gringos go for cheap treatments.
San Miguel de Allende, Mexico. This is a gringo town full packed of retireees who got sick of fishing in Oregon, lots of Vietnam vets.
Playa del Cramen, Mexico. Check out my data sheet.
Havana, Cuba. No, wait. President Trump gives a shit about Cuba.

Yes, Cuba is out.

Tijuana would be a good place for one-nighters and stuff like that. What kind of airport does it have? I want to draw more customers than just people from LA and southern California.

Playa del Carmen is a resort area, so it might be pretty good.

I don't know much about San Miguel de Allende. What kind of airport access does it have?

I should have mentioned that in my original post. I would need to have a good airport nearby. By a good airport, I mean either a major hub with international flights or one that has plenty of direct options to major hubs.

Post: #5

In your mind.

Post: #6

Costa Rica maybe?

Post: #7

Tijuana, TJ for the locals, has an international airport. But the most important thing is that the place is crowded of gringos buying in the local drugstores the medicine and treatments that, for whatever the reason are overpriced or prohibited in America.
San Miguel is 2 hr from León, a city with a huge international airport. 30 years ago, San Miguel was a sorry ass Mexican town where you could make a decent life with US$300 a month. The low prices combined with a gorgeous climate atracted many American retirees. They bought old houses for pennies. The houses were renovated, converted into hostels, restaurants, art galleries or just simply gorgeous restored houses. Today, this town is a major touristic attraction, where Americans triple Mexicans, and you can find many veterans healing from PTSD.
Playa del Carmen is full packed of drugs. There's a pusher every 30 yd. You can sell another drug.

Post: #8

edit:

Post: #9

Bocas Del Toro in Panama

http://www.bocasdeltoro.com/

Great beaches and wildlife, and it's in the Caribbean sea, but only a half hour's water taxi ride to the mainland. Costa Rica is only an hour away.
Panama has an excellent business climate as well. Surfers and ecotorists come here from all over the world.
Bocas town has about 50 restaurants and bars, but the real beauty is when you get out the the jungle areas, both on Isla Colon (where I live) and on some of the other islands. Land here is also not that expensive.
It's easy to get to, a 45 minute flight from Panama City, 3 times a day in low season and more flights are added in high season, and there's a flight from San Jose in Costa Rica about twice a week.

Post: #10

You say that you enjoy partaking in this activity, and that this has inspired you to open your own retreat. Can you explain further why you want to get into the business of operating a retreat, specifically?

I ask because there are millions of people out there who have thought "Well I like going to bars, I should open a bar!", or "I like restaurants and food, I should open a restaurant!"

Very often in these cases it would be much cheaper and in fact more enjoyable to just be a consumer of the things you like doing rather than try to turn those things into a (fairly complex) business. Many people imagine that turning their passion into a business will just allow them to enjoy more of that passion more frequently, but most often it does not work out that way.

What are the factors that make your proposed retreat different or better than those already available?

Do you have experience in operating a physical, employee based business? One which has potentially high liability factors?

Do you have experience operating such a business in Latin America?

Do you have access to an authentic Shaman, or at least an old Indio looking man who can speak unintelligibly at the appropriate moments?

What are the main personal desires that you hope will be fulfilled by operating this retreat?

Are there other ways these desires can be fulfilled- such as making your money in a more lucrative, less risky/capital intensive, location independent endeavor which allows you to enjoy this activity more frequently but without the hassle?

I do not say any of this in order to dissuade you, only to hopefully help you consider all the angles.

Post: #11

I know some which have sprung up in the Czech Republic and people make decent money off it.

Post: #12

(06-19-2017 01:08 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  You say that you enjoy partaking in this activity, and that this has inspired you to open your own retreat. Can you explain further why you want to get into the business of operating a retreat, specifically?

I ask because there are millions of people out there who have thought "Well I like going to bars, I should open a bar!", or "I like restaurants and food, I should open a restaurant!"

What are the factors that make your proposed retreat different or better than those already available?

Do you have experience in operating a physical, employee based business? One which has potentially high liability factors?

Do you have experience operating such a business in Latin America?

Do you have access to an authentic Shaman, or at least an old Indio looking man who can speak unintelligibly at the appropriate moments?

What are the main personal desires that you hope will be fulfilled by operating this retreat?

I think that these questions and concerned can addressed fairly accurately by reading through OP's past thread titles.

Phony Huggers (where OP documented his poor reading of social cues)

Libertarian Party discussion (OP will be in for a shock when he discovers how much corruption one has to deal with when operating a business in a third world country)

Would you approach a homeless woman? (where OP documented his willingness to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get laid)

Conclusion: I doubt there is going to be any legitimate follow through on this idea.

Post: #13

(06-19-2017 01:08 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  You say that you enjoy partaking in this activity, and that this has inspired you to open your own retreat. Can you explain further why you want to get into the business of operating a retreat, specifically?

It's a booming industry right now. I also have some ideas which might give me an edge over the competition. I have done 37 ceremonies and very much believe in this.

One place where I would like to this is in the area of learning disabilities. I wonder if I could take kids who are getting F's in math class and turn them into A students. I have actual had my vision improve because of ayahuasca.

I also want to get out of my career and out of the USA. This creates a chance to do both.

Quote:Do you have experience in operating a physical, employee based business? One which has potentially high liability factors?

I'm not doing it in America. The biggest liability of doing business in America is the possibility of a totally stupid lawsuit. Other countries do not have this problem. In America, you can sue McDonald's for putting a cup of coffee between your legs and then spilling. It's not like this in other countries.

Post: #14

(06-19-2017 10:47 PM)puckerman Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 01:08 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  You say that you enjoy partaking in this activity, and that this has inspired you to open your own retreat. Can you explain further why you want to get into the business of operating a retreat, specifically?

It's a booming industry right now. I also have some ideas which might give me an edge over the competition. I have done 37 ceremonies and very much believe in this.

All the successful bar owners I know don't drink in their own bars.

Create a business in an industry where the numbers for doing so make sense, not a business in an industry that you have an emotional attachment to.

Quote:One place where I would like to this is in the area of learning disabilities. I wonder if I could take kids who are getting F's in math class and turn them into A students. I have actual had my vision improve because of ayahuasca.

Is it just me or is a business based on giving kids hallucinogenics a really, really bad idea?

(06-19-2017 10:47 PM)puckerman Wrote:  I also want to get out of my career and out of the USA. This creates a chance to do both.

That's a good reason to change careers and/or leave the USA. It's not a good reason to invest time and money into a business that you may not have the skills/resources to run successful or for which a business plan (which accounts for all costs) hasn't been created.

Start a business where you stand a good chance of success. Do your hobbies in your free time.

(06-19-2017 10:47 PM)puckerman Wrote:  

Quote:Do you have experience in operating a physical, employee based business? One which has potentially high liability factors?

I'm not doing it in America. The biggest liability of doing business in America is the possibility of a totally stupid lawsuit. Other countries do not have this problem. In America, you can sue McDonald's for putting a cup of coffee between your legs and then spilling. It's not like this in other countries.

If you think that the risk of lawsuits is too big to justify starting a business in the US, then just wait till you discover how much corruption in a third world country is going to hinder your path to success.

Baby steps. Try living and working in a country where you may be interested in doing business in the future before you make big plans based primarily on emotions, rather than clear cut math.

Post: #15

It's a hell of a complicated business. Plenty of other liabilities like getting screwed over by your employees, the local government, competitors, etc. You are less likely to get sued over spilled coffee but more likely to get all your money stolen, kidnapped, or killed.

If you've done 37 ceremonies then you should have a lot of contacts. It's very big red flag that you're asking us instead of talking to those contacts.

I think the first step would be to work at one of those retreats for at least one year.

Post: #16

(06-19-2017 10:47 PM)puckerman Wrote:  The biggest liability of doing business in America is the possibility of a totally stupid lawsuit. Other countries do not have this problem.

I don't think you have much of any idea how other countries' legal systems work, nor their business environments, especially Ecuador, Colombia, Bolivia, Central America and the Caribbean.

Yes you have fewer frivolous lawsuits in those places. The trade off is you have very few protections for your business either, and that is combined with often being subjected to completely arbitrary and unpredictable rules and decisions that could end your business. And that is via the official legal and business regulations. There is a whole other world outside of that one which you will most likely have to deal with (varying by location), whether you want to or not.

Frivolous lawsuits are a minor problem compared to all the challenges and difficulties of running a physical, local business in most of Latin America, which will include real estate, banking, employees and more. Any one of those aspects can be a nightmare to navigate for a gringo, even for someone who has lived in South America for years.

You don't know which country, you don't know anything about business in any of those countries, you haven't even resided in S.A. as far as I know, but yet you are saying it's less risky to do business there.

What you want to do is possible. But it's not going to be possible for you to do as of right now, not until you get serious and real about this and do both of: 1) Listen to those of us who have lived in Latin America for years and done business there, and 2) Relocate to your desired location and live there for at least a year, living life as simply a resident and everything that entails ... then, after that, you will have at least sufficient experience to consider getting into business in in that location.

At least then you will know what you don't know. Right now, you don't know what you don't know.

And I say all of this even putting aside the fact that you want to give retarded kids ayahuasca, a hallucinogenic drug, with the hope of improving mathematical ability.

Right now this is just AustraliaSucks with Chile real estate round 2.

Post: #17

(06-19-2017 10:47 PM)puckerman Wrote:  I'm not doing it in America. The biggest liability of doing business in America is the possibility of a totally stupid lawsuit. Other countries do not have this problem. In America, you can sue McDonald's for putting a cup of coffee between your legs and then spilling. It's not like this in other countries.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

McDonald's was selling their coffee at almost 200 degrees Fahrenheit. The old lady in the case suffered third degree burns and only wanted them to pay for the skin grafts, which McDonald's refused to do. They sold the coffee insanely hot because they thought it would keep people in the restaurant longer and they would buy more food. Far from frivolous.

Anyone defending McDonald's in that case is clearly biased and a frequent partaker in Quarter Pounders and McFlurrys.

Post: #18

(06-20-2017 12:45 AM)wi30 Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 10:47 PM)puckerman Wrote:  I'm not doing it in America. The biggest liability of doing business in America is the possibility of a totally stupid lawsuit. Other countries do not have this problem. In America, you can sue McDonald's for putting a cup of coffee between your legs and then spilling. It's not like this in other countries.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

McDonald's was selling their coffee at almost 200 degrees Fahrenheit. The old lady in the case suffered third degree burns and only wanted them to pay for the skin grafts, which McDonald's refused to do. They sold the coffee insanely hot because they thought it would keep people in the restaurant longer and they would buy more food. Far from frivolous.

Anyone defending McDonald's in that case is clearly biased and a frequent partaker in Quarter Pounders and McFlurrys.

The documentary Hot Coffee talks about this case quite a bit. It's a shame that the majority of the public believes the propaganda put out by McDonalds and others in regards to that case.

These are the burns that happened to her:

[Mod: linked to NSFW images]

https://i1.wp.com/travis.pflanz.me/wp-co...C430&ssl=1

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-48...a7a77f23-c

Quote:Liebeck died on August 5, 2004, at age 91. According to her daughter, "the burns and court proceedings (had taken) their toll" and in the years following the settlement Liebeck had "no quality of life", and that the settlement had paid for a live-in nurse.

Post: #19

^^^Woah! Not safe for work.

Post: #20

Captain, a link would have sufficed man! Burnt grandma crotch needs a warning

Post: #21

I just learned something very interesting about Ecuador. They know use the US dollar as their currency. Does anyone have any idea why they do this?

Post: #22

(06-19-2017 11:16 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  If you've done 37 ceremonies then you should have a lot of contacts. It's very big red flag that you're asking us instead of talking to those contacts.

I think the first step would be to work at one of those retreats for at least one year.

Most of the people I've met in the ayahuasca community are dedicated socialists. While they know a lot about ayahuasca and other plant medicines, such beliefs show that they are also pretty much irrational when it comes to issues like law, politics, and economics. This is why I haven't asked more of them. I doubt they can predict where these countries will be in ten or twenty years.

I put it in the "Travel" section because I wanted opinions from the men who go to lots of different places.

I definitely agree with you about working with a more experienced person for a year. I learned a lot just from going to Peru.

I am also ruling out high-altitude cities. I do not think it is wise or responsible for people who have NEVER lived in places like Cuzco or Quito to go to these same places and drink ayahuasca. The altitude and the depleted oxygen are a major adjustments for the body and the brain. It's extra stress that a drinker doesn't need.

Post: #23

(06-26-2017 07:48 AM)puckerman Wrote:  Does anyone have any idea why they do this?

Yes, for the same reason El Salvador adopted it- because the USD is stable and useful for things.

Ecuador has been using the dollar for nearly 20 years, ever since their shitcoin took a massive nosedive.

Panama uses USD as well of course, but that's because of our history with them, not due to currency collapse.

Post: #24

Recently heard about Rythmia on the tangentially speaking podcast.

This is a huge operation and looks like it's going to be a huge success. I'd suggest working here to see how it operates.

Post: #25

puckerman - you've mentioned this in multiple threads so I know you are serious about it. I'll tell you one way that I would consider doing this even though it isn't the exact advice you are asking for.

I think you are underestimating the complexities of this business. I don't think you will be successful if you do this business soon but maybe you could be successful if you spent 3 to 5 years preparing.

The first step would be to setup a plan to live in the areas that have these retreats. Forget about where you want to open your retreat for now. That is like step 50 and you are on step 1. Do you even have an idea where you will find a shaman and get the ayahuasca plants if you aren't located near the jungle?

Reduce your expenses and begin saving as much money as possible. Begin minimizing your material possessions by selling things you don't need.

I think you work in IT. Figure out a way to make money location independently. Perhaps you could do IT work similar to your current work or maybe you could do something with internet marketing which will be a good skill-set to have when you start an ayahuasca business.

Move to an area that has these retreats. Get involved as much as possible and add value wherever you can. You are definitely underestimating the value of the information that the people in these communities can give you even if you think they are dedicated socialists. Many of them are business people much more than they are socialists. There is a guy that I PM'ed you about who runs one of the retreats you went to. He is one of the most highly respected people in the ayahuasca community. I can't believe that you think a game/manosphere forum can give you better information than him and you probably paid him over $2000 to go to his retreat for a couple weeks.

Be prepared for people to treat you like an oddball and not want to help you much. You and half of the other gringos in these locations wants to open their own ayahuasca retreat. Everyone seems to have that same "calling" even though it lacks any creativity. The people down there hear from people like you everyday and 99.9% of those people never follow through. You will have to come up with a creative way of explaining what you are trying to do so they don't dismiss you or see you as sucker that they can steal money from or get you to work for free.

Network as much as possible and with the right people. You aren't going to find a good opportunity but if you add enough value and network with the right people then a good opportunity will eventually find you.

You will need to learn the local language (spanish or portuguese) if you don't speak it already.

Finally, don't be so focused on opening a retreat. Consider other business opportunities that involve ayahuasca. For example, there is a guy who now owns a retreat but he used to own the hippie cafe where all the ayahuasca-heads meet each other to drink coffee, eat, and scam the latest recruits into giving up their money. He started his retreat after he had lived there for years, established himself, made contacts, sold a business, etc.