Post: #26

If I'm going to cheat on my diet and go out to eat, the food better be really fucking good. That disqualifies every one of these places. There simply is not a compelling reason to go to a single one of these restaurants, unless if they have a great beer special and I'm meeting a girl from Tinder who I suspect may be a catfish.

Post: #27

Another one that needs to go is Olive Garden. Man that place is disgusting. Unfortunately, fat boomers and ghetto folks seem to love it so I don't see it going away anytime soon.

Post: #28

(06-04-2017 08:48 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Another one that needs to go is Olive Garden. Man that place is disgusting. Unfortunately, fat boomers and ghetto folks seem to love it so I don't see it going away anytime soon.

God I'd forgotten about that shithole. Worse than Applebees, and barely qualifies as food.

Post: #29

Ah, I know this one. BW3 stands for Wild Wings and Weck. Weck being a kaiser roll like bread for sandwiches. They left off the Weck on letterhead after they hit the big time.

Post: #30

The real question is why was OP browsing AOL? They still exist?

Post: #31

(06-04-2017 07:45 PM)Bluto Wrote:  

(06-04-2017 05:57 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  2. The fixed costs that restaurants have to pass on to customers has gone up a lot. When I go to other places in the US that cost much less than DC, restaurants aren't that much cheaper. I'm guessing that a lot of it has to do with insurance related to the serving of alcohol as opposed to food costs. My reasoning why food costs are not the issue is as follows: When I went to the McDonald's (fast food w/no alcohol) in Charlotte, NC across the street from what I assume is its high end mall (it had a Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom's), the cost of 2 egg mcmuffins plus a small orange juice was nearly $4 less than in DC near the White House, hence my theory about alcohol insurance being the issue.

Let me guess, South Park? I would agree with you that things are cheaper down here, but it is not likely just alcohol insurance. As there is most likely more regulations for serving alcohol due to the ABC laws being more stringent, I tend to think that would even out a bit. In general things tend to be cheaper compared to DC even in the more affluent areas of the state. At least that has been my experience when I have visited DC land.

Yes! I remember now. Thanks for reminding me. I was looking into moving down to Charlotte.

Don't worry. I may be a Yankee but I am no carpetbagger. I fully intend to embrace the laws and culture of the South, but I'll probably never speak the language without a thick accent .

I deliberately went to McDonald's because:
1. I was in the mood for an Egg McMuffin.
2. I wanted to use "Big Mac Economics" to try to gauge the difference in the cost of living.

" As there is most likely more regulations for serving alcohol due to the ABC laws being more stringent, I tend to think that would even out a bit. "

The thing is that I've observed casual restaurants serving booze not really being much cheaper than DC in:
Dallas
Atlanta
Tampa Bay
Nashville
New Orleans
Kansas City
Chicago (though it oddly seemed the cheapest of the bunch)

I go in hoping for things being 20% or 30% cheaper. It's usually about 10%, %15 at best. Lots of other things are much cheaper. Just not casual restaurants serving booze.

It's also worth noting just how much insurance for bars, clubs, and restaurants is because of booze. I went to undergrad in Kingston, Ontario, Canada. Now Canada has no where near the lawsuit culture that the USA has. Still, there were 3 nightclubs there (AJ's, Stages, and The Grizzly Grill) which probably had a combined capacity of 1,750 people. I once heard through the grape vine that the combined MONTHLY insurance for those 3 clubs was C$180,000. Would those bars realistically serve 180,000 drinks in a month? Over 30 days, that means that they would have to server 2000 drinks every day just to only add $1 to the price of a drink -
including Sunday through Wednesday.

Imagine what it would be for a US equivalent.

Post: #32

(06-04-2017 06:24 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

(06-04-2017 05:34 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Is that why they taste so bad? They're using partially frozen crap?

I can't speak for every restaurant out there but it is a common trend amongst fast-food chains.

The food often tastes worse because the product is typically lower quality and isn't made soup to nuts... or rather, from start to finish in-house. When you purchase / bring in ready-to-eat or partially prepared products they've lost nutrients and the customer suffers. Not having to produce it themselves lowers labor costs, which means less jobs.

Burger patties, french fries, breaded chicken, all those breaded appetizers... high fat, low nutrient content and all often delivered through the back of the building... frozen, in a large percentage of the fast-food chain industry. Most desserts come in frozen. Thaw and serve. Less than half this stuff is getting produced in the kitchen, it's just being finished.

I co-sign what Gmac is saying here.
In university i was assistant manager of a fast food chain location (you've probably eaten there if you live in North America)
EVERY THING we sold was brought in by truck and "ready to serve".
The burger buns came on big racks, the fries, the burger patties *fish and chicken as well* came in frozen and basically everything else came in refrigerated.
The ice cream based products came from a large bag of milky white dairy product that you pour into a machine, wait 20 minutes and you can start serving milkshakes or soft serve cones.

The only thing we ever handled/prepared was cutting tomatoes and onions. Lettuce and pickles came in big bags pre-cut and ready to go.
The apples pies were frozen and only needed to be put in the deep fryer for a few minutes.

I get why fast food places do it this way, simple for the efficiency and all that.
I think it a terrible sign of the times when sit down/slow food restaurants are using the exact supply chain as McDonald's and Wendy's.

Post: #33

When I want to eat out, I always go to places like Chick Fil A, Chipotle, Publix Deli, Firehouse, etc. Cheaper than "casual dining" crap, better quality, and way faster.

I'm always trying to explain to my Brazilian GF (who's lived here for about seven years) why Applebee's sucks, but having not grown up here she doesn't really get it.

Post: #34

(06-04-2017 09:54 PM)HermeticAlly Wrote:  When I want to eat out, I always go to places like Chick Fil A, Chipotle, Publix Deli, Firehouse, etc. Cheaper than "casual dining" crap, better quality, and way faster.

I'm always trying to explain to my Brazilian GF (who's lived here for about seven years) why Applebee's sucks, but having not grown up here she doesn't really get it.

Well, from her perspective, it is exotic food from a foreign culture.

Just sayin.

And yeah, Applebee's sucks. But it doesn't swallow like TGI Friday's.

Post: #35

So, the assumption of the typist is that chain restaurants are wonderful institutions that must be preserved, while actual people who are voting with their wallets are the problem. The sooner that this whole boomer globalist culture dies, the better. Good news is that it's happening.

Post: #36

These guys deserve to fail as they haven't adapted to the most obvious consumer preference trends. People want to know their food came from a clean place. They want it to remain a whole food until it is prepared to serve. These guys just keep pushing $10 endless popcorn shrimp type promos. People know it's processed, and they know the cheap beef is coming from slaughterhouses where blood and shit are flowing a couple inches deep on the floor. You can't thrive as a restaurant these days unless you make the quality of your ingredients a selling point.

Post: #37

The funny thing is, these places typically offer a handful of menu items that are decent quality food and not terribly unhealthy, yet all I ever see there are gigantic lardasses consuming 800% of the daily recommended intake of saturated fat on some deep fried appetizer while waiting for their grease soaked double bacon cheeseburger to arrive.

The lesson is that once you're perceived as the place where unattractive/lower class people dine, no amount of "healthy options" will win back the yuppie crowd.

Post: #38

It is tough to shake off that unfortunate brand image but it can be done. It takes time and usually involves an aesthetic overhaul.

Post: #39

The healthy food the serve is completely flavorless. Anyone who cooks at home should be appalled at the flavor of their "healthy" options, and thats exactly whats happening. Problem is cooking healthy food in a tasty way typically requires someone to actually cook it, and not a backroom microwave.

Post: #40

(06-04-2017 05:22 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  The price of eating at Applebees or BW3s is insane. I have a slow-cooker pot roast going right now, and it cost me something like 20% of what I'd pay for a full meal at Applebees. In fact, for the price of a meal for 3 at Applebees, you could buy all the ingredients for the recipe AND THE SLOW COOKER ITSELF, and have change left over.

I'm not surprised by the 20% cost. Most restaurants limit their food ingredient cost to 25%, so if a meal cost them $2.50 to make they charge $10 for it.

Another example of this is Veloce's thread on cooking a steak. If I go to a restaurant here a basic steak is going to be at least $15. I bought a whole pack of steaks and cooked them like Veloce recommended and they tasted better and were 4 times cheaper than a restaurant.

(06-04-2017 05:22 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  I'm thinking that at least one of these chains (Chili's, Applebees, BW3s, TGIF) is going bankrupt in the next 5 years. And I for one can't wait.

Hopefully. I use to like to go to Chili's but now it is complete shit. The food taste worse now, the portions keep shrinking, and the price keeps going up. I never could stand Applebee's or TGIF for the same reasons.

(06-04-2017 05:34 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Is that why they taste so bad? They're using partially frozen crap?

I don't know about the chains but probably so. For small restaurants many of them rely on food suppliers like Sysco that deliver to their door tons of frozen food that take just a few minutes to prepare. The restaurants love it because it is quick and easy and saves a ton of labor. Often Sysco supplies many of the same restaurants so in one area a few restaurants might all serve the same chicken strips, cheesecakes, fries, etc.. the only difference being which restaurant is serving it.

Post: #41

(06-04-2017 09:10 PM)Repo Wrote:  The real question is why was OP browsing AOL? They still exist?

I found the story on the incomparable "Boomer Nationalism" twitter, which I recommend to anyone interested in US politics...

Post: #42

I remember a day when capitalism meant taking a risk, and the reason you got a return, was for taking that risk, otherwise why are you getting a return.

An enterprise failing to keep with with what a client wants? Its like pampering business with too-low wages has pampered them and robbed them of their competitive spirit.

Post: #43

I wonder how much of this is down to the fact that younger people simply don't have the money to spend on account of sky high rents, which earn them the privilege of living in a house share?

Post: #44

It is all about disposable is tanking. Add to it the few jobs out there, the fact that under 30 women make more money than men (which is a very bad thing), see also the increase in debt and stupid high college costs - then you have an explanation for the problem.



Being in a restaurant is a social thing. Most people if they made a lot more, had more disposable income, then they would go to restaurants more often.

This does not have much to do with Tinder. The majority of restaurant guests are not first and second dates.

The middle class is shrinking. And the working poor cannot afford middle class chain restaurants.

The top tier places are doing fine and the budget shacks and fast foods are doing ok. The society is becoming Dickensian. You cannot offshore constantly all jobs and expect the same expenditures going on.

Post: #45

These chain restaurants should introduce "street tacos" featuring a radish. Millenialls will show up.

Post: #46

It's all money and cost. I used to go to Buffalo Wild Wings every Tuesday with the wife for the first couple years to give her a break and so she could eat Blazing wings. After a while she figured out how to cook those wings herself, so I would just go buy the sauce bottles at the restaurant, and she would just cook them. Saved us lots of money, even though I did not care about it at the time, but you know how Chinese women are...

Took her, the kids, and my in laws to one before we all went back to China, and the bill was around 85 bucks... For that money I could have gone to a steakhouse in a way. I also noticed that the place was half full when usually it's jam packed. The ToGo section was full (Who wants to tip garbage service?). An average family with 2 or 3 kids would not be doing themselves any favors eating out at those prices. Same thing with taking kids out to baseball and football games. If the ticket prices aren't bad enough 6-9 dollar beers, hotdogs, burgers, etc. can easily cost you 400 bucks if you let everyone order whatever they like.

The middle class is going to shift hard and either pick out one thing to not give up, or let most of it go entirely. The average salary has not changed in over 20 years.

Young dudes with no families eat out of food trucks and other cheaper hipster places all the time and you cannot blame them at all. Some of these hipster places have fresher food in the ingredients! In Houston, you could go to the best Mexican restaurants in either Southeast area or Long Point road (Both areas are like Little Mexico) and spend maybe a third on a meal for a few people that no one can finish, and nothing was frozen. Food trucks in those areas have smoked chicken, beef, pork, etc. where you could get two whole smoked chickens for under 20 dollars with sides and real tortillas. I see white and black people coming to these places to eat all the time because word spreads. They aren't scared the area looks rough either.

There are even Brazilian Steak food trucks now, and restaurants serving that have to be pretty mad because that allows people to get a much cheaper version of their product.

Very interesting thread. I noticed some of these same things myself, but did not think too much of it at the time. The only time I see a Chili's full is during the work week at lunch if they are near alot of corporate businesses. Even then, managers and senior folks are typically in there. Salata is always full of managers and directors/executives usually. Afterall, who else is going to eat a 20+ dollar salad?

Look at Cheddars. I think that is the only place I see young people white and black going to and the parking lot is always full. Their food is barely better than Applebees or Chili's in a way (Some of you might resent me saying that) but they have a much better price point than those other places.

As for Olive Garden, Red Lobster, etc., all those Darden Restaurants, have been hurting in the past year or so. Only Longhorn is doing very well and that is only because those steaks are well seasoned and very decent for the cheap price compared to mid level and high end steakhouses. Last time I checked, Longhorns are the only reason why their stocks haven't nosedived.

Post: #47

(06-05-2017 04:56 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  It is all about disposable is tanking. Add to it the few jobs out there, the fact that under 30 women make more money than men (which is a very bad thing), see also the increase in debt and stupid high college costs - then you have an explanation for the problem.

You beat me to it. The fact that insane college debt can't be discharged in bankruptcy has turned 20 and 30 somethings into near permanent debt slaves.

The rule of thumb is you need at least 3% (inflation adjusted) growth in GDP for a steady increase in the standard of living. We haven't had 3%+ (on an annual basis) for over a decade now. Plus, add in massive levels of immigration suppressing wages and you have a reduction in the standard of living for the younger people in the workforce.

I am Gen X, which is one of the fewest in number compared to other generations. Why? because when our parents were at the age of family formation, the economy was in shambles (high inflation, deep recessions, Nixon defaulted on backing the dollar in gold, etc.). You don't have kids in bad times. The debt situation with the millennials might just well lead to another 'baby crash'.

Post: #48

American style restaurants have to die because they have a very unhealthy and bizarre business structure. They employ an army of staff who are all equally underpaid, are expected to make up their wage in tips and thus the food items have a nominally lower price but everyone knows and expects it to be higher because of the tips. This all breeds this weird mentality that the restaurant is basically a scumbag as an employer because it underpays its staff, but somehow the staff is then pissed at customers for not tipping them enough, as if it's the customer's job to pay someone's wages.

I also never really got this whole differentiation into busser / waiter / main waiter or whatever they have going on. In Europe the waiters somehow manager to take your order, bring you your food, check up on you now and then, take the dishes away and prepare a table. What's the point of having (oftentimes illegal Mexican) bussers who get paid jack shit?

Just behave like a normal, responsible business: price in the wage of your workers into the prices of the food, raise those food prices and destroy the weird entitlement mentality where the waiters EXPECT tips and customers EXPECT unusually low food prices. And if the "b-b-but tips incentivize a friendlier and better service!" argument gets brought up, stop kidding yourselves, it's a really dishonest argument. Underpaying people stresses them and the "friendliness" that you get is this over-the-top brand of American customer-focus that feels really fake. Also what exactly do you need or expect from your waiter? They take your order once, do 1-2 check-ups on you during your meal and maybe bring you another bottle, that's about it. Waitering is not some magical activity.

Post: #49

I don't think it's the issue of disposable income, but more to the issue of who the hell wants to eat there?

The experience is nothing to write home about, and near shameful socially, whereas if I really wanted to spend money on food I'd probably go to the local brewery/taphouse, get good beers and decent food.

Or happy hour at a nice steakhouse for way better appetizers and cheap drinks that are actually nice, and a far more unique ambience.

Price, food, experience are all bad. They have no redeeming qualities

Post: #50

I assume fast casual places like Shake Shack, Five Guys, Potbelly, etc are drawing away a lot of customers from Applebees and the like. You can get better food at those places for cheaper, especially since you don't have to tip. Red Robin seems to be doing well, however, and its model is somewhat similar to Applebees and TGIF, but I guess you can't go wrong specializing in hamburgers.