Post: #151

^Rossi, I live in the US and also lived in other countries long term (including Europe).

For working and making money, I prefer the US by far.

That 66 yo man you mentioned seems set in his ways and unwilling to retire even though he has millions. It happens to old people, but it's definitely not typical to work your ass off in your 60s if you have more than enough money to quit.

A 12 hour work day is not typical either even for those of us who are still wage slaves. A decent corporate job is 9am to 5-6pm with a lunch break, about 20 days of vacation per year plus public holidays, sick days, etc. Not easy to find, but not rare. The annual vacation is maybe a week or two less than what you get in Europe, but still not too bad given that the average salary here for corporate jobs is much higher.

Also, there is a big and growing internet community of people who try to save a significant percentage of their earnings and retire early. Check out Mr Money Mustache, for example. There are people who retire in their 40s or even 30s, and I don't mean trust fund kids or lucky entrepreneurs, just normal people who make US money and as frugally as, for example, typical French people do (more or less).

My point is that it is much easier to achieve your career and money goals in the US compared to the rest of the world including Europe. Whether this involves working 12 hours a day until you die or checking out while your are still relatively young is a matter of personal choice.

However, I agree that for the location/financially independent, the US is not the best place to enjoy life and have fun unless you have tons of money (and perhaps even if you do). The best strategy is to make money in the US and then either move abroad or do extended trips overseas and come back to the US from time to time.

Post: #152

(06-02-2017 07:35 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  I know NJ VERY well -- it is VERY walkable in Hudson County -- unbelievable public transportation, NJ Transit on Boulevard East runs 24 hours...you've got Hoboken as you yourself even admitted but then you have other areas that are just as walkable as any comparably sized euro city or town: Morristown -- you can survive without a car. Montclair, same...and plus you even get humongous mansions as a bonus...ten times the living space you would get in a comparable euro town. Englewood Cliffs is walkable. Several other towns have a nice well kept downtown or Main Street. NJ is most certainly walkable. Sure, of course you have suburbs that require a car...but that's the same EVERYWHERE. C'mon, be real: NJ is NOT Florida where, I admit, you would die without access to a car. But NJ? No way, at least...not in the right places.

I'm glad nothing happened to you in Paris...especially since you know, Islamic people they've let in with no controls whatsoever seem to really enjoy ramming trucks into people from time to time...just like in Germany...and when they're not doing that, the Moroccan youths are busy pickpocketing or mugging tourists. It's happened to many female friends who've gotten mugged in either Paris or Barcelona. And, I'm talking about hardcore guys and gals from cities in the US where one would think there is more violence or danger...but the level of street crime in Euro capital cities is out of control. There are dozens of no go areas in Paris alone and London!

You say Jersey City is like the Middle East. Oh, and Paris isn't? LOL. Ever visited Frankfurt? Loads and loads of Muslims walking around and what's worse. at least in the US they don't (at least not yet) run over people in crowded Christmas markets.
Then you've got beautiful Cape May just a few hours from NYC with Victorian mansions, a walkable area, conservative local politics. Newark and Jersey City are NOT the only walkable places in NJ. See above for others. And that's just NJ. Upstate New York also has lots of walkable towns with a nice Main Street area. I recommend you visit Goshen, to put an example...and other towns in Orange and Westchester County.

You say you want to walk 2-3 hours. Seriously? Who would want to walk hours and hours? What's the point of that? I love walking myself, but really, 2-3 hours? Manhattan, Boston, Chicago...heck, even Greenville, South Carolina is walkable downtown.

Making your OWN money at 66 and being a boss over others is the opposite of being a slave. What's so "free" about giving more than half your paycheck to the government in exchange for sitting in a plaza playing cards, sipping bad red wine that stains your teeth and doing what exactly for yourself and the world? Just laughing and "being nice"?

What's the purpose of making money if you don't have time to spend it? How about saving it? Why spend spend spend? That's a very female mentality. Responsible people in life SAVE SAVE SAVE. If it weren't for savings, there'd be no capital and most places would be shitholes. The reason why wealth is still semi present in the West is thanks to you know, those "boring Protestant party poopers who work work and don't expect Papa State to owe them a living. Man Europe is really messed up. Enjoy it! I'll just come back to visit occasionally and laugh at the decadence.

My definition of "walkable" is way different than yours. You said Montclair is walkable and that's where I lived actually. Where do you walk in Montclair? To bakery every morning?

I mean, you can also walk to bathroom from living room. That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking taking a walk, man. Not from Montclair State University to closest CVS. I'm talking about a walk, like Wall Street to Soho or even to Midtown, like 30 mins to 40 mins walk.

I mean, next thing you'll say every city in US is walkable. %99 of NJ is not walkable. Only Hoboken and Weehawken is. Boston is walkable, Chicago is walkable. LA is not but if you are refering "walkable" to next block, then yeah every city in the world is walkable.

Quote:What's the purpose of making money if you don't have time to spend it? How about saving it? Why spend spend spend? That's a very female mentality. Responsible people in life SAVE SAVE SAVE. If it weren't for savings, there'd be no capital and most places would be shitholes. The reason why wealth is still semi present in the West is thanks to you know, those "boring Protestant party poopers who work work and don't expect Papa State to owe them a living. Man Europe is really messed up. Enjoy it! I'll just come back to visit occasionally and laugh at the decadence.

Saving it? 66 year old is saving $20 millions to spend it in heaven or hell? Not a smart idea. I don't know if they accept cash there. He already swallows handful pills every morning, what is he exactly saving it for? You're here in this world to life, not to save money until you die. You're not a robot, you spend money and enjoy your limited time while you're here. This is not 1800's man, slavery is abolished.

Just give me a logical answer to this question.

Why would you work 12 hours, 6 days (Tuesday to Sunday) when you have roughly $20 millions in your bank account, 3 apartment's (2 in Manhattan, 1 Miami), 1 house (where you're living on Long Island) at the age of 66?

What's the purpose of making money when you don't have time to spend it? Considering this person didn't go to vacation for 7 years. He has only Monday's off because restaurant is closed.

Because his son was working with me at Credit Suisse and he'll be retiring the day his father dies and moving to Switzerland with his girlfriend.

Thanks workaholic dad.

Post: #153

(06-02-2017 08:01 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  ^Rossi, I live in the US and also lived in other countries long term (including Europe).

For working and making money, I prefer the US by far.

That 66 yo man you mentioned seems set in his ways and unwilling to retire even though he has millions. It happens to old people, but it's definitely not typical to work your ass off in your 60s if you have more than enough money to quit.

A 12 hour work day is not typical either even for those of us who are still wage slaves. A decent corporate job is 9am to 5-6pm with a lunch break, about 20 days of vacation per year plus public holidays, sick days, etc. Not easy to find, but not rare. The annual vacation is maybe a week or two less than what you get in Europe, but still not too bad given that the average salary here for corporate jobs is much higher.

Also, there is a big and growing internet community of people who try to save a significant percentage of their earnings and retire early. Check out Mr Money Mustache, for example. There are people who retire in their 40s or even 30s, and I don't mean trust fund kids or lucky entrepreneurs, just normal people who make US money and as frugally as, for example, typical French people do (more or less).

My point is that it is much easier to achieve your career and money goals in the US compared to the rest of the world including Europe. Whether this involves working 12 hours a day until you die or checking out while your are still relatively young is a matter of personal choice.

However, I agree that for the location/financially independent, the US is not the best place to enjoy life and have fun unless you have tons of money (and perhaps even if you do). The best strategy is to make money in the US and then either move abroad or do extended trips overseas and come back to the US from time to time.

That's just one example. There are tons of examples I've seen in US.

My cousin is another example. He owns 4 car dealership in NJ. He's 45. He has only Sunday off because state rules on dealership, if state allows, he would work that day too. He has been in 2 countries in his life, he's been working like a slave. He hasn't even been in West coast yet. He makes millions.

It's just weird, man. I will never understand why people make money when they don't enjoy spending it.

Manhattan is a great city for working. I slaved myself at Credit Suisse for 2,5 years. I remember working 15 hours a day, minimum 10 hours a day but I was 27 and dealt with it until I was 30. I was able to take only 14 days off in 2,5 years.

But I made great money. I bought 3 apartment's from Italy in 3 years. One from Rome and 2 from Milan, renting all of them. I make €4700 just from rents, I get a job at logistic company now. Pays half of what I was making at Credit Suisse but I work only 5 hours a day. I have 35 days of paid vacation.

Life is good.

I have no problem for people to overwork and make great money while they are young. That's totally fine. I have also done that but I don't understand people who work when they're already filthy rich.

A person who is 66 year old, who has $20 million cash and assets, why the hell would he work for more? What's the purpose of making your cash to $25 million when you're 69 year old?

You don't/can't spend it anyway. He has a steak restaurant and he can't even enjoy the steak he cooks due to his illness because he takes handful pills everyday. You should have ate all those steaks at Michelin Guide restaurants while you were young, buddy. Too late now.

Why is this dude working for? What happens, if he's 75 year old and he has $50 millions in his bank account? He doesn't spend it anyway. I'll tell you what happen. His son will waste it on girls and booze in Switzerland day after he dies. Well, I'll join him too.

Post: #154

I think a lot of you are missing the point about the 66 year old, still working, even though he's worth millions. For him, it's not work, and it probably keeps him going, mentally, if not physically. I can think of at least one person from my old school, who is/was a very senior figure in finance, and worked long after he needed to.

I recall watching a TV programme a few years back, where an entrepreneur actually came out and stated that he didn't consider his job as work, because he enjoyed it.

P.S. a perfect example is Bernie Ecclestone, although you could argue that he's got to keep going, to keep his daughters in handbags and shoes.

Post: #155

(06-02-2017 07:35 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Rossi Wrote:Yes, I walked in Paris at night, even midnight since I lived there 4 months last year. Nothing really happened. I also lived in New Jersey for around 7 months and my cousin still is living in New Jersey ever since he was born. New Jersey is not somewhere you can walk. What are you arguing over here?

I know NJ VERY well -- it is VERY walkable in Hudson County -- unbelievable public transportation, NJ Transit on Boulevard East runs 24 hours...you've got Hoboken as you yourself even admitted but then you have other areas that are just as walkable as any comparably sized euro city or town: Morristown -- you can survive without a car. Montclair, same...and plus you even get humongous mansions as a bonus...ten times the living space you would get in a comparable euro town. Englewood Cliffs is walkable. Several other towns have a nice well kept downtown or Main Street. NJ is most certainly walkable. Sure, of course you have suburbs that require a car...but that's the same EVERYWHERE. C'mon, be real: NJ is NOT Florida where, I admit, you would die without access to a car. But NJ? No way, at least...not in the right places.

I'm going to agree with Rossi here... I don't know those places, but a quick google maps streetview tells me they don't seem very fun to walk at all. Maybe it's possible to walk, but what's the point if there is nothing interesting to see?

Many Canada/US cities are like that... a main street area with nothing interesting to see (and all main street areas are like copy pastes of each other) and then sprawled houses. Why would I walk? To see trees and cars and roads?

I'm not saying Europe is not like that, many places in Europe are like this. That's why I have refused so many contracts in the UK/Germany/France/other places, I need a real city to live in.

Compare that to Prague. There are some places I go a few times per week from home. Well, for the past 5 months I haven't walked the same route once. I can always find parallel streets with new interesting things to see. I enjoy the exploring.

If I'm in a hurry, I can be anywhere I need to in 10 minutes of tram, and I don't even care about schedules because they come every 2 minutes.
But when I have 20 minutes to be somewhere, walking can be tons of fun, even if you are just going to the dentist or whatever.

If you think about it, people spend thousands of dollars and fly 15 hour flights just to have the luxury of walking around the city center of Prague (because that's basically what tourism is). How many people would pay a single cent to walk around NJ?

I guess it's hard to understand for US people.
But for some Europeans, when you grew up in a city where there is something new happening around every corner, and every time you leave home to walk it's like an adventure, walking around the US can be very boring.

Post: #156

Just a thing to consider. Europe is split culturally in 3 parts, which are all very different from each other:

Southern Europe - "mediterranean lifestyle", lazy and informal
Northern Europe - much closer to the anglo-saxon world, more formal and work is a central piece of life
Eastern Europe - poor, corrupt, kind of mafia vibe

So when we talk about "Final thoughts on Spain and Europe in general" we actually talk about the Southern European style.

Post: #157

Rossi Wrote:My definition of "walkable" is way different than yours. You said Montclair is walkable and that's where I lived actually. Where do you walk in Montclair? To bakery every morning?

I mean, you can also walk to bathroom from living room. That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking taking a walk, man. Not from Montclair State University to closest CVS. I'm talking about a walk, like Wall Street to Soho or even to Midtown, like 30 mins to 40 mins walk.

I mean, next thing you'll say every city in US is walkable. %99 of NJ is not walkable. Only Hoboken and Weehawken is. Boston is walkable, Chicago is walkable. LA is not but if you are refering "walkable" to next block, then yeah every city in the world is walkable.

And what's so "interesting" about living in a comparably sized town in Europe? I mean really, things get boring anywhere IF YOU are boring. 99% of NJ is not walkable? That's a huge stretch. I have already said that of course suburbs are NOT walkable...JUST LIKE in Madrid's suburbs or Barcelona's suburbs. Do you really think Torrelodones, just outside Madrid is "walkable"? Or many other "Sierra" towns? Now even you have admitted that not all of Europe is walkable so we got something of an agreement. You just don't find Montclair "interesting". Ok, fine. I also don't find most small towns interesting, be they in Europe or the US. But you were talking about walkable and for a similar sized town in Spain you'd get EXACTLY the same - you'd get 1 or 2 bakeries at most and a commercial area. Oh well, sure...it will smell like olive oil being fried at around 2 pm...maybe that's more "interesting", who knows...

Rossi Wrote:Saving it? 66 year old is saving $20 millions to spend it in heaven or hell? Not a smart idea. I don't know if they accept cash there. He already swallows handful pills every morning, what is he exactly saving it for? You're here in this world to life, not to save money until you die. You're not a robot, you spend money and enjoy your limited time while you're here. This is not 1800's man, slavery is abolished.

Just give me a logical answer to this question.

You say we are here to "live"...that's precisely why Southern Catholic Europe is POOR whilst the hard working saving NORTH is RICH. To me, sitting in a plaza bullshitting all day is NOT progress or "living". It is actually, rotting away slowly making no progress until you die and then after you die, what have you left in this world to show for? Nothing nothing. Your definition of living is not mine. To retire is to expire. Slavery? How can being in so much debt to a government that takes more than half your paycheck, as many Euro governments really do, not be slavery? How can not being allowed to have a gun to defend yourself be in any way compatible with freedom? What, so you can just sit in the pizzeria all day hanging out? Hanging out is for children. Believe me sir, I went through the phase you're going through and it gets to the point where you either accept mediocrity or you do something about it.

I like your idea about living from rents but NOT everyone can do that unless they've had the opportunities you've had. Do you really think most Euro people in Spain own several apartments and just live from that instead of working their long 10+ hour days in exchange for, IF LUCKY, 900 euro to 1000 euro NET pay a month? Oh right, they've got "free" lol healthcare. OK, fine. Keep it.

It was thanks to a rich country like the US where someone like you had the opportunity to work and make money. See? Thank to those mean party pooper protestants or "protestant culture".

We have very different worldviews.

Post: #158

Stallion Wrote:I'm going to agree with Rossi here... I don't know those places, but a quick google maps streetview tells me they don't seem very fun to walk at all. Maybe it's possible to walk, but what's the point if there is nothing interesting to see?

Many Canada/US cities are like that... a main street area with nothing interesting to see (and all main street areas are like copy pastes of each other) and then sprawled houses. Why would I walk? To see trees and cars and roads?

I'm not saying Europe is not like that, many places in Europe are like this. That's why I have refused so many contracts in the UK/Germany/France/other places, I need a real city to live in.

That's right -- I'm glad you recognize MANY places in Europe are the same. Small towns in general are not "interesting", be they in the US or Malaysia or Mars. But we were talking about "walkable" and you can most certainly survive without a car in those places I mentioned.

You say people spend thousands of dollars to walk around Prague vs NJ. Of course! Europe is a place to see and then get out...it's like a museum filled with old people and has-beens. Most of those people spending top dollar are of course Americans, not Europeans themselves though. You can turn your question around: How many people would pay thouands of dollars to walk around some small unknown town in Italy? Not many. People travel to cities everywhere. There are also Europeans who spend thousands just to see New York or LA.

And I still disagree about "interesting". I lived in Madrid and it wasn't so "interesting" at all after you get used to it. You make it sound as if though you magically find a show or spectacle on every street corner or find gold!

Post: #159

New Jerseyan reporting in.

You cannot make blanket statements about NJ in this regard.

Newark: you can sorta get around with a car, but if you need to commute to other cities you pretty much need a car given how expensive train tickets are.

Montclair: small enough to get around in without a car if you live there, but same deal as Newark if you commute inside of NJ.

Jersey City: Reasonable enough to get around in without a car if you're good with the bus.

Hoboken: pretty much NYC lite.

Trenton/Princeton: you can get around without a car reasonably well, but you're stuck in that area without one.

South Orange and Maplewood: pretty much exist as glorified suburban train stations, but you pretty much need a car for that area if you're gonna be buying groceries and shit considering how spread out it is.

Millburn & Livingston: same deal, but if you're living here you have serious money and should have no problem owning a car.

Morristown: Perhaps you could live around here without a car, but aside from being able to drink your face off with the guido crowd I'd rather die than live there full-time. It's bad for soul.

The same could be said for most NJ townships.

I love NJ but as a resident for nearly 30 years I don't really think it's a good spot for a young dude unless you're working in NYC and wanna save on rent. Otherwise, I'd just move to a better state and work within a city that you can afford.

Once you leave that central area of you NJ you pretty much need a car.

Post: #160

One thing that always annoyed me about my interactions with americans was how so many conversational subjects would eventually spin to how much money I or the person(s) I was talking to made and how something could be monetized.
I recall how most germans at home often speak about work even when they're off duty and specially when they are outside on vacation.
Is my judgment valid to categorize americans as grubby avaricious minded people and germans as socially awkward workaholic drones?
Hell no!I havent met enough of either and they have a lot of things going for them, and it seems that it works for them, or at least that they can live with it just fine, and even better than me.
By contrast, I rather enjoy the life of neighbourhoods and villages in Southern Europe, even with the bad,of which there is a lot as well.
But I did have a lot of fun (and bad things) in the states and in Germany as well, where I found my bird so I guess it's a matter of what rocks your boat ultimately...

Post: #161

(06-03-2017 05:54 AM)El_Gostro Wrote:  One thing that always annoyed me about my interactions with americans was how so many conversational subjects would eventually spin to how much money I or the person(s) I was talking to made and how something could be monetized.
I recall how most germans at home often speak about work even when they're off duty and specially when they are outside on vacation.
Is my judgment valid to categorize americans as grubby avaricious minded people and germans as socially awkward workaholic drones?
Hell no!I havent met enough of either and they have a lot of things going for them, and it seems that it works for them, or at least that they can live with it just fine, and even better than me.
By contrast, I rather enjoy the life of neighbourhoods and villages in Southern Europe, even with the bad,of which there is a lot as well.
But I did have a lot of fun (and bad things) in the states and in Germany as well, where I found my bird so I guess it's a matter of what rocks your boat ultimately...

That's weird. In NJ someone would find it VERY offensive if you asked abut their bankroll in some way. WE're very private about that stuff.

A californian might be more into talking about how much money they make and can spend.

Just to give you an idea, I used to tutor these kids in a wealthy NJ suburb. You'd name a price and the parent would agree. You'd drive up into the neighborhood and think you were dealing with a normal middle-class family only to see a house just shy of a mansion with elevators and shit. Meanwhile, these people are driving volvos and other very unassuming cars and don't even try and pretend like its a big deal.

These are probably multi-generationally wealthy families with old money and it's simply never a talking point. Dad's an "accountant" and mom is a "saleswoman" and you get nothing more than that.

Post: #162

(06-03-2017 05:45 AM)Fortis Wrote:  New Jerseyan reporting in.

You cannot make blanket statements about NJ in this regard.

Newark: you can sorta get around with a car, but if you need to commute to other cities you pretty much need a car given how expensive train tickets are.

Montclair: small enough to get around in without a car if you live there, but same deal as Newark if you commute inside of NJ.

Jersey City: Reasonable enough to get around in without a car if you're good with the bus.

Hoboken: pretty much NYC lite.

Trenton/Princeton: you can get around without a car reasonably well, but you're stuck in that area without one.

South Orange and Maplewood: pretty much exist as glorified suburban train stations, but you pretty much need a car for that area if you're gonna be buying groceries and shit considering how spread out it is.

Millburn & Livingston: same deal, but if you're living here you have serious money and should have no problem owning a car.

Morristown: Perhaps you could live around here without a car, but aside from being able to drink your face off with the guido crowd I'd rather die than live there full-time. It's bad for soul.

The same could be said for most NJ townships.

I love NJ but as a resident for nearly 30 years I don't really think it's a good spot for a young dude unless you're working in NYC and wanna save on rent. Otherwise, I'd just move to a better state and work within a city that you can afford.

Once you leave that central area of you NJ you pretty much need a car.

I don't think most towns are good places for young people...be they in Europe or the US.

Most of your criticisms of the towns you mention can be directly applied to many Euro towns as well. Take Valencia for example: I LOVE Valencia but it also has a reputation for having the "guido crowd" of Spain. Ever heard of Gandia shore? It is very real trust me. Lots of airheads and uneducated people depending on where you go. It's like everywhere.

I just don't get how so many people believe there are earthly paradises. I have never had to drive and lived in NJ and got along fine without a car...and of course you don't need a car in NYC or Boston. Now, I agree that there are also many many places in NJ where you most definitely need a car. No big deal. The same goes for Europe. Basically any rural or suburban area you will need a car.

@El Gostro:

With few exceptions (eg: that you have property or are working in something international) most Americans who LOVE Europe are losers or people who would seek to transform the American republic into some failed mediocre Euro socialist experiment. That's why in the US you see so many feminists and stupid hipsters rave on and on about France or Spain, etc. Now I mean, look you are able to observe Spaniards daily because of your job right? Do you really not see the mediocrity around you? We've talked about this before but Spanish people for the most part, like other Southern Euros, "settle" for what they have and make no complaints. They say things like "es lo que hay" or "qué será será". IT IS EXASPERATING to me how they just accept their lot in life and don't think of doing anything about it. Many Spanish people complain about the same and that's why they leave this country.

Post: #163

(06-03-2017 06:11 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

(06-03-2017 05:54 AM)El_Gostro Wrote:  One thing that always annoyed me about my interactions with americans was how so many conversational subjects would eventually spin to how much money I or the person(s) I was talking to made and how something could be monetized.
I recall how most germans at home often speak about work even when they're off duty and specially when they are outside on vacation.
Is my judgment valid to categorize americans as grubby avaricious minded people and germans as socially awkward workaholic drones?
Hell no!I havent met enough of either and they have a lot of things going for them, and it seems that it works for them, or at least that they can live with it just fine, and even better than me.
By contrast, I rather enjoy the life of neighbourhoods and villages in Southern Europe, even with the bad,of which there is a lot as well.
But I did have a lot of fun (and bad things) in the states and in Germany as well, where I found my bird so I guess it's a matter of what rocks your boat ultimately...

That's weird. In NJ someone would find it VERY offensive if you asked abut their bankroll in some way. WE're very private about that stuff.

A californian might be more into talking about how much money they make and can spend.

Just to give you an idea, I used to tutor these kids in a wealthy NJ suburb. You'd name a price and the parent would agree. You'd drive up into the neighborhood and think you were dealing with a normal middle-class family only to see a house just shy of a mansion with elevators and shit. Meanwhile, these people are driving volvos and other very unassuming cars and don't even try and pretend like its a big deal.

These are probably multi-generationally wealthy families with old money and it's simply never a talking point. Dad's an "accountant" and mom is a "saleswoman" and you get nothing more than that.

Exactly -- you know us "wasps" are very unassuming and play down things

Post: #164

Fortis, I didnt spend that much time in NJ (Despite being born there!) short of a month in Newark (bad period of my life) and had more
extended interactions with people in New York and in NOLA (of which I now suspect many must have been californians!).
Southerners were a different breed, the money aspect was a bit more discreet and my impression was that they respected resolve.

Post: #165

@Baldrich:
Before it used to bother me,but I mostly focus on myself and am fine with others being as they are, in the worst cases I try to find an individual way around it.
I don't even hang out at cafes and bars as I used to do when I was kid back in Bs As (but these days were fun, one day I'll post about all the wacky characters and stories I learned and lived those days) but since I'm a bit of a loner when I'm off work I sort of enjoy stopping by the corners or the shops and listening to some of the gossip between the townspeople. It is mostly mundane and irrelevant, but many times is spoken with such seriousness and I just find it amusing before I continue with my day. Or I have a laugh when my friend in the park tells me jokes about the funcionarios or the shopkeepers make snide comments about the passerbyes, or smiling and hailing the nighbours.
It's definitely not an ambitious culture in general to be sure, but I seem to get along with it at the moment at least despite some issues.
If things go right and I get my way, I feel it would be a place with nice weather and relatively lax rules on certain aspects to raise kids

Post: #166

(06-03-2017 06:30 AM)El_Gostro Wrote:  @Baldrich:
Before it used to bother me,but I mostly focus on myself and am fine with others being as they are, in the worst cases I try to find an individual way around it.
I don't even hang out at cafes and bars as I used to do when I was kid back in Bs As (but these days were fun, one day I'll post about all the wacky characters and stories I learned and lived those days) but since I'm a bit of a loner when I'm off work I sort of enjoy stopping by the corners or the shops and listening to some of the gossip between the townspeople. It is mostly mundane and irrelevant, but many times is spoken with such seriousness and I just find it amusing before I continue with my day. Or I have a laugh when my friend in the park tells me jokes about the funcionarios or the shopkeepers make snide comments about the passerbyes, or smiling and hailing the nighbours.
It's definitely not an ambitious culture in general to be sure, but I seem to get along with it at the moment at least despite some issues.
If things go right and I get my way, I feel it would be a place with nice weather and relatively lax rules on certain aspects to raise kids

Ugh! Don't even get me started about the Spanish kids! NASTY ASS RUDE MOFOS. I thought American kids were terrible...but Spanish kids make US kids look like Heidi on the Prairie in comparison. None of these kids even say "thank you"...I once had to cover for a female friend who teaches kids and I had to be really mean just to control the class...thanks to the LAX culture of NO rules and manners. Many of those kids should be smacked hard.

You like smiling and saying hi to the neighbors and that's another thing that me, being an individualist, don't like. I don't like the "greeting"culture of most of Europe. In my own building, I just ignore them when they say "hola" and see no reason to smile or make small talk (ironically many Americans love to smile and do small talk but at least not in NYC or the northeast in general). The good thing about Valencia though is that there are quite a few "odd" Spaniards here who also ignore you if you say hola so it's all good. Madrid was much worse in that regard. There you are most definitely expected to greet.

Post: #167

(06-03-2017 06:14 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(06-03-2017 06:11 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

(06-03-2017 05:54 AM)El_Gostro Wrote:  One thing that always annoyed me about my interactions with americans was how so many conversational subjects would eventually spin to how much money I or the person(s) I was talking to made and how something could be monetized.
I recall how most germans at home often speak about work even when they're off duty and specially when they are outside on vacation.
Is my judgment valid to categorize americans as grubby avaricious minded people and germans as socially awkward workaholic drones?
Hell no!I havent met enough of either and they have a lot of things going for them, and it seems that it works for them, or at least that they can live with it just fine, and even better than me.
By contrast, I rather enjoy the life of neighbourhoods and villages in Southern Europe, even with the bad,of which there is a lot as well.
But I did have a lot of fun (and bad things) in the states and in Germany as well, where I found my bird so I guess it's a matter of what rocks your boat ultimately...

That's weird. In NJ someone would find it VERY offensive if you asked abut their bankroll in some way. WE're very private about that stuff.

A californian might be more into talking about how much money they make and can spend.

Just to give you an idea, I used to tutor these kids in a wealthy NJ suburb. You'd name a price and the parent would agree. You'd drive up into the neighborhood and think you were dealing with a normal middle-class family only to see a house just shy of a mansion with elevators and shit. Meanwhile, these people are driving volvos and other very unassuming cars and don't even try and pretend like its a big deal.

These are probably multi-generationally wealthy families with old money and it's simply never a talking point. Dad's an "accountant" and mom is a "saleswoman" and you get nothing more than that.

Exactly -- you know us "wasps" are very unassuming and play down things

Sure, but you get my point, they would never discuss this with an outisder. I'm sure they have an ego about it, but they were gracious enough to not try and AMOG me with wealth haha.

And yeah, you aint missing much in Newark. I really don't wanna go back to Newark. I only go back there for my grandparents at this point. Otherwise, I'd forget I ever lived there.

Post: #168

(06-03-2017 06:42 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

(06-03-2017 06:14 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(06-03-2017 06:11 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

(06-03-2017 05:54 AM)El_Gostro Wrote:  One thing that always annoyed me about my interactions with americans was how so many conversational subjects would eventually spin to how much money I or the person(s) I was talking to made and how something could be monetized.
I recall how most germans at home often speak about work even when they're off duty and specially when they are outside on vacation.
Is my judgment valid to categorize americans as grubby avaricious minded people and germans as socially awkward workaholic drones?
Hell no!I havent met enough of either and they have a lot of things going for them, and it seems that it works for them, or at least that they can live with it just fine, and even better than me.
By contrast, I rather enjoy the life of neighbourhoods and villages in Southern Europe, even with the bad,of which there is a lot as well.
But I did have a lot of fun (and bad things) in the states and in Germany as well, where I found my bird so I guess it's a matter of what rocks your boat ultimately...

That's weird. In NJ someone would find it VERY offensive if you asked abut their bankroll in some way. WE're very private about that stuff.

A californian might be more into talking about how much money they make and can spend.

Just to give you an idea, I used to tutor these kids in a wealthy NJ suburb. You'd name a price and the parent would agree. You'd drive up into the neighborhood and think you were dealing with a normal middle-class family only to see a house just shy of a mansion with elevators and shit. Meanwhile, these people are driving volvos and other very unassuming cars and don't even try and pretend like its a big deal.

These are probably multi-generationally wealthy families with old money and it's simply never a talking point. Dad's an "accountant" and mom is a "saleswoman" and you get nothing more than that.

Exactly -- you know us "wasps" are very unassuming and play down things

Sure, but you get my point, they would never discuss this with an outisder. I'm sure they have an ego about it, but they were gracious enough to not try and AMOG me with wealth haha.

And yeah, you aint missing much in Newark. I really don't wanna go back to Newark. I only go back there for my grandparents at this point. Otherwise, I'd forget I ever lived there.

Exactly -- I don't anyone with lots of wealth in NJ who would discuss it openly. Heck, we even are careful sometimes about asking where someone is from or anything that is "personal" - - you know like the whole, "where are you from, IF YOU DON'T MIND ME asking"? Newark? Yep...I agree with you.

Post: #169

(06-03-2017 06:40 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  Ugh! Don't even get me started about the Spanish kids! NASTY ASS RUDE MOFOS. I thought American kids were terrible...but Spanish kids make US kids look like Heidi on the Prairie in comparison. None of these kids even say "thank you"...I once had to cover for a female friend who teaches kids and I had to be really mean just to control the class...thanks to the LAX culture of NO rules and manners. Many of those kids should be smacked hard.

But hey, one of those might be a diamond in the rough,and rise above all his spoilt unambitious brethern to become a maverick, then again, maybe not.

A lot have turned out to be persons more of your liking, however. Such as the young adult ones that that leave and say how stagnating spain is.
So after all, they aren't all bad even to your standards!

(06-03-2017 06:40 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  You like smiling and saying hi to the neighbors and that's another thing that me, being an individualist, don't like. I don't like the "greeting"culture of most of Europe. In my own building, I just ignore them when they say "hola" and see no reason to smile or make small talk (ironically many Americans love to smile and do small talk but at least not in NYC or the northeast in general). The good thing about Valencia though is that there are quite a few "odd" Spaniards here who also ignore you if you say hola so it's all good. Madrid was much worse in that regard. There you are most definitely expected to greet.

Well then, you are doing the right thing by leaving such a place.

Post: #170

(06-03-2017 05:15 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Stallion Wrote:I'm going to agree with Rossi here... I don't know those places, but a quick google maps streetview tells me they don't seem very fun to walk at all. Maybe it's possible to walk, but what's the point if there is nothing interesting to see?

Many Canada/US cities are like that... a main street area with nothing interesting to see (and all main street areas are like copy pastes of each other) and then sprawled houses. Why would I walk? To see trees and cars and roads?

I'm not saying Europe is not like that, many places in Europe are like this. That's why I have refused so many contracts in the UK/Germany/France/other places, I need a real city to live in.

That's right -- I'm glad you recognize MANY places in Europe are the same. Small towns in general are not "interesting", be they in the US or Malaysia or Mars. But we were talking about "walkable" and you can most certainly survive without a car in those places I mentioned.

You say people spend thousands of dollars to walk around Prague vs NJ. Of course! Europe is a place to see and then get out...it's like a museum filled with old people and has-beens. Most of those people spending top dollar are of course Americans, not Europeans themselves though. You can turn your question around: How many people would pay thousands of dollars to walk around some small unknown town in Italy? Not many. People travel to cities everywhere. There are also Europeans who spend thousands just to see New York or LA.

And I still disagree about "interesting". I lived in Madrid and it wasn't so "interesting" at all after you get used to it. You make it sound as if though you magically find a show or spectacle on every street corner or find gold!

We agree in one thing at least, Madrid is a very boring and uninteresting city. No city in Spain is very interesting to walk trough, maybe Barcelona but it also gets boring pretty quickly. The most boring city I've ever seen was Geneva, in Europe, so I don't totally disagree with your points.

And obviously small towns are boring everywhere. But middle sized European cities have a lot to offer (I mean the size of Kaunas or Wroclaw, like second or third biggest city of the country/state) while American cities of the same size are little more than a village.

And about big cities, sure. I don't care if its in Asia, US or Europe, a big city is always a big city.

But apart from LA, Vegas and NY... any other North American city an European would spend money to visit? To me those 3 cities also felt like a place to visit for a few weeks and then never come back. Most other big cities are so boring. I remember walking around Vancouver during summer and thinking... even a french banlieu is more interesting than this place. I haven't been everywhere in US/Canada, but after speaking with many Americans about their hometowns I have the impression most big cities are like this.


Anyways, we have different opinions, repeating them over and over doesn't really make much sense.

Post: #171

This topic is full of nonsense. Europe just like the US is full of all kinds of people, some more stupid than others. An idiot choosing to slave away for 1000 EUR net in Spain will not become rich in the US. In fact he will probably be worse off as he will most likely need a car to get anywhere and in case of medical issues he'll probably become homeless.
I know at least a dozen people working in Spain, France, Germany and even Poland who make good money and they would probably do the same in the US but they have zero interest in trading a comfortable European lifestyle for boring American suburbs.
Europe has the top tourist destinations worldwide, the main cities are miles ahead in terms of history, architecture or food and the countryside in each country is different with its own traditions and hidden gems. You simply cannot compare that with USA or Canada where you have miles and miles of highway and "mall" pit stop towns that look identical with zero things to do. For somebody who has traveled and lived considerable time on both continents I find it ignorant to put Europe on the same level as North America.
Of course I'm not saying that NA does not have some advantages. It's a better place to do business and a common language makes it much easier to integrate yourself into society. Some cultures or countries in Europe can be hard to crack into while the NA is more open for foreigners.

Post: #172

(06-03-2017 06:40 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  Ugh! Don't even get me started about the Spanish kids! NASTY ASS RUDE MOFOS. I thought American kids were terrible...but Spanish kids make US kids look like Heidi on the Prairie in comparison. None of these kids even say "thank you"...I once had to cover for a female friend who teaches kids and I had to be really mean just to control the class...thanks to the LAX culture of NO rules and manners. Many of those kids should be smacked hard.

Oh yeah, Spanish kids are rude as fuck.

You forgot the most rude creature to walk the European lands though... the Spanish grandma! Always skipping lines and looking at you like they deserve to do it.

Well, EE grandmas can also be cold and rude, but after all they have been through, I can understand it. The Spanish ones have no excuse.

Post: #173

Stallion Wrote:Oh yeah, Spanish kids are rude as fuck.

You forgot the most rude creature to walk the European lands though... the Spanish grandma! Always skipping lines and looking at you like they deserve to do it.

Well, EE grandmas can also be cold and rude, but after all they have been through, I can understand it. The Spanish ones have no excuse.

VERY TRUE. The grandmas here are OUT OF CONTROL.

Stallion Wrote:We agree in one thing at least, Madrid is a very boring and uninteresting city. No city in Spain is very interesting to walk trough, maybe Barcelona but it also gets boring pretty quickly.

Exactly. I've never been to a place in Spain where I can say "ohhh wow, how interesting!" They do have beautiful cities, of course and the country itself is stunning, but people wise or things to really do, not much. And out of all the Spanish cities, Madrid is the most unremarkable...very gray 1950s and 60s buildings once you get out of the main touristy center. Also, for a European capital, it doesn't even have that much history.

Pointer Wrote:This topic is full of nonsense. Europe just like the US is full of all kinds of people, some more stupid than others. An idiot choosing to slave away for 1000 EUR net in Spain will not become rich in the US. In fact he will probably be worse off as he will most likely need a car to get anywhere and in case of medical issues he'll probably become homeless.

Whoever said ANYTHING about a 1000 euro/month Spanish worker becoming "rich" in the US? You do realize also that healthcare is being privatized in Spain right and that there are LONG waiting lists for all sorts of surgical procedures, some which take years on a waiting list? You do realize that thousands of Spanish people are living off their grandparents pensions and have no future, right? What about all the Europeans who live in small towns where a car is a must? Don't idolize Europe.

Comfortable European lifestyle? If it was so comfortable, why aren't American billionaires flocking to live in Europe? They could always do that but no, most billionaires would much rather be in the US for obvious reasons...chief amongst them, a better tax regime (for now) and more things to choose from and do.
I had no idea European suburbs were these fascinating interesting places with loads of things to do! I must've missed something.

Food? It's a matter of taste...I don't find European food to be that great, sorry. It's ALRIGHT, but nothing spectacular. The countryside, at least in Spain, is getting empty since most people need to fight for the scraps of whatever little work is left in the cities. I agree many US suburbs are dull and surrounded by strip malls. Guess what? IKEA also exists in Spain as well as strip malls.

Europe is like one big amusement park though, I'll give you that. You don't have to live in a place all your life to see it and experience it.

Post: #174

(06-03-2017 08:31 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  Europe is like one big amusement park though, I'll give you that. You don't have to live in a place all your life to see it and experience it.

Baldrich, I will put the last euro for your plane ticket to US. If you need some help packing your stuff I am also free on weekends))
When are you going after all?

Post: #175

Yeah, wouldn't it be great if everywhere in the world was just like the US?