Post: #51

Question for OP:

Did you try and increase your levels naturally at all before deciding to do TRT? I know many have tried and failed but I do know guys personally that have near doubled their count just through sleep, diet, supps and lifting (mid 400s to about 800). If you were older the chance would be thin but as you're in your 20s I would have thought you had a good chance.

Curious as to whether you tried and if you did, what your regime was exactly.

Post: #52

For the guys on TRT, how much does the test and supplies cost per month or year (ballpark)?

Is it the test or Dbol or both that causes the drastic facial aging that has been mentioned?

Post: #53

In the US cash price(legal through Walgreens)is $300 a year or less, includes syringes and needles. No insurance needed. This is for test cyp.

Post: #54

(05-23-2017 10:10 PM)Clint Barton Wrote:  In the US cash price(legal through Walgreens)is $300 a year or less, includes syringes and needles. No insurance needed. This is for test cyp.

Clint is correct, I spent that much last year and I only recently re-upped on needles and such. You want to be careful if you're doing this under the table, though. If your house is raided for whatever reason and the cops find too many vials of test, they can pin you with intent to distribute and such. This will vary depending on where you live, but be careful.

Also, make sure you that buy enough syringes and PCT. I would keep PCT on hand at all times in case something goes awry. I was really pissed off a few months ago when this guy I've never met before in my life approaches me asking me about PCT. Turns out a friend of mine told him that I did TRT so the guy comes out of nowhere asking me about this shit in front of other people. It was very poor form on my friend's end and his end.

Turns out this moron had super High E starting out and started using test and tren without doing the proper bloodwork and got itchy nipples. It was embarassing as hell. A grown-ass man begging me to share my stash of Anti-E with him. I also had a talk with my friend about telling people about TRT when they're clearly too stupid to do it properly.



So also make sure you do your bloods before you start this stuff.

Don't make us all look bad.

Post: #55

(05-23-2017 06:09 PM)Gas Wrote:  Question for OP:

Did you try and increase your levels naturally at all before deciding to do TRT? I know many have tried and failed but I do know guys personally that have near doubled their count just through sleep, diet, supps and lifting (mid 400s to about 800). If you were older the chance would be thin but as you're in your 20s I would have thought you had a good chance.

Curious as to whether you tried and if you did, what your regime was exactly.

Hey Gas,

so I started lifting a few years back, but I had never gotten blood work at that time, so I don't know what my testosterone levels were. I did strong lifts and all that other stuff and for a while my sex drive, energy and motivation were through the roof. Eventually, when I moved to China, everything just sorta went down. I wasn't hungry anymore, no sex drive, low energy, high irritability, depression and the other issues that come with low testosterone.

The thing to remember about china is that it is currently undergoing its own form of testosterone/sperm collapse due to pollution, so I suspect this might be the culprit in my case. Millions of chinese dudes have mega low sperm count due to stress, long hours with no breaks and pollution.

I did bloodwork and came back low after a year here. I started changing up my diet and lifting more consistently and everything but it did not help me. all that much. I did the basics: eating more, sleeping more, getting laid more, but I think I simply hit a weird part of the curve after so many years (almost 25) of just fucking around with diet, exercise and rest.

To be fair, I think I had already done enough damage to my test levels from years of video gaming all night, lack of sleep, lack of sex, poor eating habits, and heavy drinking.

Post: #56

(05-24-2017 01:55 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 06:09 PM)Gas Wrote:  Question for OP:

Did you try and increase your levels naturally at all before deciding to do TRT? I know many have tried and failed but I do know guys personally that have near doubled their count just through sleep, diet, supps and lifting (mid 400s to about 800). If you were older the chance would be thin but as you're in your 20s I would have thought you had a good chance.

Curious as to whether you tried and if you did, what your regime was exactly.

Hey Gas,

so I started lifting a few years back, but I had never gotten blood work at that time, so I don't know what my testosterone levels were. I did strong lifts and all that other stuff and for a while my sex drive, energy and motivation were through the roof. Eventually, when I moved to China, everything just sorta went down. I wasn't hungry anymore, no sex drive, low energy, high irritability, depression and the other issues that come with low testosterone.

The thing to remember about china is that it is currently undergoing its own form of testosterone/sperm collapse due to pollution, so I suspect this might be the culprit in my case. Millions of chinese dudes have mega low sperm count due to stress, long hours with no breaks and pollution.

I did bloodwork and came back low after a year here. I started changing up my diet and lifting more consistently and everything but it did not help me. all that much. I did the basics: eating more, sleeping more, getting laid more, but I think I simply hit a weird part of the curve after so many years (almost 25) of just fucking around with diet, exercise and rest.

To be fair, I think I had already done enough damage to my test levels from years of video gaming all night, lack of sleep, lack of sex, poor eating habits, and heavy drinking.

Cool. I am wondering how stable testosterone levels really are. I guess we don't know because people don't test every day. But there's a few situations where guys will be on 300 and do nothing and suddenly they're on 700 (and vice versa). I tested mine twice after an abnormally low reading and showed a 40% change just within a couple of days.

I presume I will be on the juice sooner or later but I'm hoping it can wait until my later years when I'm more settled with a family etc. You're starting younger than most so good to know the first year went well.

Post: #57

(05-24-2017 05:13 AM)Gas Wrote:  

(05-24-2017 01:55 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 06:09 PM)Gas Wrote:  Question for OP:

Did you try and increase your levels naturally at all before deciding to do TRT? I know many have tried and failed but I do know guys personally that have near doubled their count just through sleep, diet, supps and lifting (mid 400s to about 800). If you were older the chance would be thin but as you're in your 20s I would have thought you had a good chance.

Curious as to whether you tried and if you did, what your regime was exactly.

Hey Gas,

so I started lifting a few years back, but I had never gotten blood work at that time, so I don't know what my testosterone levels were. I did strong lifts and all that other stuff and for a while my sex drive, energy and motivation were through the roof. Eventually, when I moved to China, everything just sorta went down. I wasn't hungry anymore, no sex drive, low energy, high irritability, depression and the other issues that come with low testosterone.

The thing to remember about china is that it is currently undergoing its own form of testosterone/sperm collapse due to pollution, so I suspect this might be the culprit in my case. Millions of chinese dudes have mega low sperm count due to stress, long hours with no breaks and pollution.

I did bloodwork and came back low after a year here. I started changing up my diet and lifting more consistently and everything but it did not help me. all that much. I did the basics: eating more, sleeping more, getting laid more, but I think I simply hit a weird part of the curve after so many years (almost 25) of just fucking around with diet, exercise and rest.

To be fair, I think I had already done enough damage to my test levels from years of video gaming all night, lack of sleep, lack of sex, poor eating habits, and heavy drinking.

Cool. I am wondering how stable testosterone levels really are. I guess we don't know because people don't test every day. But there's a few situations where guys will be on 300 and do nothing and suddenly they're on 700 (and vice versa). I tested mine twice after an abnormally low reading and showed a 40% change just within a couple of days.

I presume I will be on the juice sooner or later but I'm hoping it can wait until my later years when I'm more settled with a family etc. You're starting younger than most so good to know the first year went well.

Ultimately, I think waiting until later is the best move since medical and anti-aging tech will probably come up with a less invasive way of rebuilding testosterone. It was my last ditch effort.

I've read somewhere that testosterone can vary by as much as 30%, though.

Post: #58

If I were lifting and doing everything right and still hovering at 300, I would definitely be on the juice. Think it could be an environmental thing too if you're living in China, depending on diet etc. I lived there for a while and the food quality and air can be a drain (depending on your budget and whereabouts, obviously).

Post: #59

(05-23-2017 10:10 PM)Clint Barton Wrote:  In the US cash price(legal through Walgreens)is $300 a year or less, includes syringes and needles. No insurance needed. This is for test cyp.

Seriously? In which state?
In Maryland I have to have a prescription from my doc to get Cyp and I always run out of it about a week prior to refill date (and the pharmacy won't refill until that date hits so I miss a dose here and there).

Post: #60

NY. Goodrx.com no insurance involved. Need doc to write 3-month supply.

If through defy, price is 480 a year for 4 200ml vials. http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Cost_Tes...dical.aspx

(06-05-2017 01:08 PM)Grenblin Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 10:10 PM)Clint Barton Wrote:  In the US cash price(legal through Walgreens)is $300 a year or less, includes syringes and needles. No insurance needed. This is for test cyp.

Seriously? In which state?
In Maryland I have to have a prescription from my doc to get Cyp and I always run out of it about a week prior to refill date (and the pharmacy won't refill until that date hits so I miss a dose here and there).

Post: #61

I will chime in.....I have been on TRT the past 2 years. I visited an anti-aging clinic in Ft. Lauderdale in 2015....did everything by the book. Very costly, but wanted to go through a professional doctor first to learn all the levels and proper procedures.

I am 42 years old and will likely remain on TRT the rest of my life it's a game changer for a middle age man. I will preface this with the fact I do not want or foresee children in my life. I luckily have a very good job in Colombia and all the products; Test, B12, amirex, and all bloodwork are here at a fraction of the cost in the USA.

Another close friend here (also a RVF poster) just visited an anti-aging doctor here in Bogota. His TRT program was very similar to mine, so I plan on using him when and if I leave to update my prescription for those Countries with stricter laws on TRT.

I really don't have many negatives to report about TRT. I do sometimes start to feel a bit sluggish later in the week as I only inject once a week (1 amp/200mg.) I have discussed doing twice a week half/half injection to level out the inevitable "coming down" feeling. Besides my estradiol coming back a little high all my blood work results have been in target.

The positives are way better motivation, clarity of thought, and strong workouts with quicker recovery time. Luckily I live in Colombia so I have access to lots of younger available women and have outlets for my increased sex drive....this continues to be very strong and I have noticed a big change in my libido.

All in all in my situation and at my age I can not find a reason not to be on TRT.

Post: #62

I guess I misunderstood you.
I will still need a prescription from my doc with goodrx (but what I pay now through ins. is cheaper though). I'll see if I can get him to prescribe an extra vial.

HCG, however, is much cheaper. My insurance won't cover it and cvs quoted me $660 for a month supply!
On goodrx it's a bit over $100.

Thanks for the info!

(06-08-2017 04:53 AM)Clint Barton Wrote:  NY. Goodrx.com no insurance involved. Need doc to write 3-month supply.

If through defy, price is 480 a year for 4 200ml vials. http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Cost_Tes...dical.aspx

(06-05-2017 01:08 PM)Grenblin Wrote:  

(05-23-2017 10:10 PM)Clint Barton Wrote:  In the US cash price(legal through Walgreens)is $300 a year or less, includes syringes and needles. No insurance needed. This is for test cyp.

Seriously? In which state?
In Maryland I have to have a prescription from my doc to get Cyp and I always run out of it about a week prior to refill date (and the pharmacy won't refill until that date hits so I miss a dose here and there).

Post: #63

I'm 23 y/o.

Total Test =663 ng/dL
Free Test = 116 pg/mL or 404 pmol/L or 11.6 ng/dL
E2 = 21 pg/mL
LH is lower end
All else is good

Illimtable men on twitter did free T calculation and my Free T works out to 1.75% which is on the lower end and can explain some of my low T symptoms.

Is there a proven way to increase Free T?

In terms of a lifestyle that promotes increase in test, I do what I can which means that there isnt much else I can do.

Post: #64

(06-08-2017 01:48 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  I'm 23 y/o.

Total Test =663 ng/dL
Free Test = 116 pg/mL or 404 pmol/L or 11.6 ng/dL
E2 = 21 pg/mL
LH is lower end
All else is good

Illimtable men on twitter did free T calculation and my Free T works out to 1.75% which is on the lower end and can explain some of my low T symptoms.

Is there a proven way to increase Free T?

In terms of a lifestyle that promotes increase in test, I do what I can which means that there isnt much else I can do.

Proviron, also known as mesterolone.

Yes it's an anabolic but it wont shut your natural production and it will increase your free T. Provenly.

Do your research on it, if you can afford it, i definitely recommend it.

Post: #65

nice suggestion! ill look into it. it seems to be DHT derived so if someone is already DHT sensitive ( hair loss, body hair) they should take DHT reducing drug ( finasteride/ dutasteride) with proviron?

or is the rise in DHT not great enough to cause DHT side effects?

Post: #66

(06-08-2017 05:25 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  nice suggestion! ill look into it. it seems to be DHT derived so if someone is already DHT sensitive ( hair loss, body hair) they should take DHT reducing drug ( finasteride/ dutasteride) with proviron?

or is the rise in DHT not great enough to cause DHT side effects?

If I were you, I would do a little research into natural methods for increasing Free T. You're too young and your Total T level too high to be messing with AAS. Not only that, but some of that stuff can potentially have nasty side effects if you happen to be part of the minority that are sensitive to such things. Fin can royally fuck you up.

Post: #67

Why does a 23 year old need to even think about TRT?

Your body is still producing loads of natural Test.

Clean up your diet, lift like a mofo, stop drinking, get good sleep and I hear no fap does amazing things.

I am twice your age, please realize this is your golden years and you want your dick to work a lifetime.

Post: #68

I understand your perspective however if 650 Total T with 1.75 % Free T is what I can achieve naturally at my "prime" that is effed.

I sleep 9 hours/day ( or else ill be too tired ), eat lots of healthy fats/ enough protein, drink like 3 times a year, frequently work out and have done a few nofap cycles of upto 90 days.

If this is the prime of my life, Id rather die, and that is not an exaggeration.

Im not dead set on injecting test just yet, but instead of TRT might just do a low dose cycle with proper PCT or whatever, if only to feel what it my "prime" might feel like.

My theory: Ive taken dutasteride, which is stronger than finasteride. The sides that people get from these drugs are all due to low DHT, obviously, due to it over prescription. Taking dutasteride everyday for example, reduces DHT levels by upto 90%. Now if you took it every 2-3 days, it would reduce DHT to a low enough level so as to prevent hair loss without side effects.

Post: #69

Dude.

1.75 Free test is fine. Within range atleast. What was the pg/ml??

Your total test is fine too. Not raging high, but it's ok.

Post: #70

116 pg/mL

Post: #71

1.75% is slightly low, but t and total t fluctuate frequently.

My 2nd to last test was a one month before my most recent, and my total t was 495. My most recent one one month later was 639.

You need to have 1-2 more draws taken to really get an accurate picture. At 1.75%, I doubt any HRT doctor is going to put you on TRT at 23.

Did you get your SHBG tested? That will give you a better picture of your free t levels.

You should go post your labs at ExcelMale.com forum.

(06-08-2017 01:48 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  I'm 23 y/o.

Total Test =663 ng/dL
Free Test = 116 pg/mL or 404 pmol/L or 11.6 ng/dL
E2 = 21 pg/mL
LH is lower end
All else is good

Illimtable men on twitter did free T calculation and my Free T works out to 1.75% which is on the lower end and can explain some of my low T symptoms.

Is there a proven way to increase Free T?

In terms of a lifestyle that promotes increase in test, I do what I can which means that there isnt much else I can do.

Post: #72

Also, thyroid and adrenals can cause low t like symptoms.

Did you have your TSH, T3, T4, etc. tested?

Post: #73

ive had 3 tests in the past 3 years, so I have a good reference point.
TSH was 1.24 mu/L. The lower the better I think?

No to anything else. The doctors office wouldnt even let me properly view my results this time, since everything is normal. I had to quickly copy the main items onto my phone.

Yea in terms of TRT, unfortunately the numbers are high enough that its not worth it. I was seriously hoping for low numbers.

Post: #74

It could be your SHBG bringing down your free t. You should have that tested.

If that's the case there are some supplements people have success with.

I'd recommend getting more labs done through DefyMedical.com and setting up an appointment.

Or go to ExcelMale.com, post your current labs, and some guys will probably give you guidance on what additional labs you should get done and what, if any, supplements may help.

Post: #75

What is "enough" good protein/fats? How much exercise is "often"? The fact that you're not being precise with your wording tells me that you are likely not very precise in practice.

Again, I would highly suggest getting your diet nailed squarely on the head. So much so to the point that you know the weight/macro content of what your eating, as well as the micronutrient content. Protein/fats are only one part of the equation.

Likewise, how are you working out. Running, biking, lifting for hypertrophy, powerlifting? Are you doing isolated lifts, heavy compound lifts? Are you pushing yourself properly? Is enough is truly enough, are you over training? If so, have you taken a break for a few weeks to see how you feel? Do you study or work in a high stress field or environment? What are your cortisol levels?

All of these things must be considered before you start playing around with AAS, whether for therapy, or on cycles. It's not a quick fix, and if done wrong could potentially stunt your natural production later in life.

I suggest hitting up a lab site, such as defymedical, and getting all the tests you can afford to have done. Then take that data and see where you can improve/tweak your diet and exercise regimen. All of these things should be considered before you jump into any kind of hormone therapy or AAS cycles, especially at your age.