Post: #1

I've been writing women on EE marriage sites, because at 50+ i hate chasing chicks and want to get married-- but definitely not in the USA. I like EE chix and can get ones ridiculously young and hot, at least 10-15 years younger than i can easily get in the USA.

I have a small but reliable independent income that would instantly get mostly confiscated should I have a child in America, followed by the lizard leaving me-- that's a non-option. I'm not too financially smart and it took me 20 years to get that pension, there's no way I can hide it from her and the courts, and since something like 80% of women get custody, I'd be back to square zero, and I'm too old to want to work hard for 10-15 years again. If I do kids-then-divorce in Ukraine, I'm willing to pay child support, but I believe it will be a lesser amount and I can manage it.

The issue of whether to have kids or not (especially at my age) is a deep philosophical issue I don't want to get into here, don't want or need opinions on that, thanks.

This is my problem:

When I'm writing them, I let them know I'm coming there ( Ukraine in this case) to live, and that I am not coming back to the USA.

The idea behind this was to weed out chicks whose main motivation is to get to the USA.

I know you could say "just don't mention it" but if you're going to be married to someone and you do it without removing the assumption, you're in for a lot of possible nagging and (again I'm over 50) wasted time when she splits in search of her Visa Buffalo.

I'm hoping the fact her kids will have USA ( and EU) citizenship will be enough of a carrot for a long-term thinker.

Also, when the kids are 8-10, I would be more willing to bring them here, because if she ditches me then, I would only have child support until they're 18 so it's not an endless nightmare.

Several women I've written have straight out asked: "Why do you want to live in the Ukraine?" I told one straight-- "It's too easy to leave a man in the USA and take his money." ( Which is the case if you have kids and not a lot of money.) But this sounds weak and beta-- If you're the great big shot why would she leave? But of course predicting accurately what a woman will do, especially a young hot woman, is completely impossible.

She responded with a lot of promises about how "Ukraine women are really dedicated to keeping the family together" etc, which I'm sure she believes at this point in time, but I've got friends who were blind-sided in divorces from women they knew 20+ years, so I can't trust someone I'll have known for a year.

How can I diplomatically sell myself as a Beta provider while avoiding the total Beta submission move of bringing her to the USA and totally handing over control of my future to someone I've only known 6 months or a year?

Some possible ideas--
-- 1. Break it to them later, after I've charmed them?
-- 2. Don't meet women on these marriage sites, where they already have the fantasy of moving to the USA in mind?

Help with ideas? Thanks.

Post: #2

Based on your specific criteria of being 50, been there done that, want a serious wife; I vote for option 2, and NEVER consider bringing her to America even for a vacation! Even if 10 years of marriage go by and you are happy, don't bring her here. You'd be surprised how fast she'll be contaminated by American bitchiness and entitlement.

Option 2 gets my vote

Although I did not meet the girl I was engaged to on a marriage site or agency, but social circle, I speak from experience bringing them to America even when all seems perfect.

Mixx

Post: #3

I don't even understand why you are writing to women on marriage sites.

If you want to move to Ukraine, just do it. Once you are there, pick and choose the one that want to marry. If you are already in the country, she will not have the expectation that you will be taking her back to the USA right away. This will quickly weed out the ones that are looking to get out of the country. If that's her intention she will move on to a more suitable target. If she she sticks around then it will give you some degree of assurance that she is not out for a passport.

Post: #4

(08-29-2011 01:36 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  ... If you are already in the country, she will not have the expectation that you will be taking her back to the USA right away. This will quickly weed out the ones that are looking to get out of the country. ...

You've got a good point there. If she meets you there, SHE has to bring up " When are we going to America?"

One can simply play dumb and say "Why would I want to do that?"

But what if she just mentions SHE wants to go.

I did something with one that might work, told her it's easy to get to the USA as an au pair. Dump it back on her and show her you don't care what she does.

Post: #5

"But what if she just mentions SHE wants to go."

Just say you can't, and be firm.

It is simply not part of the deal.

No hemming and hawing (so to speak). Maybe imply that you can't for "political reasons" or something.

Tell her you will take her to the beach in Bulgaria instead.

I am also guessing that you will be able to find some with no interest of going to America.

Post: #6

Also,

(08-29-2011 12:57 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I've been writing women on EE marriage sites, because at 50+ i hate chasing chicks and want to get married-- but definitely not in the USA. I like EE chix and can get ones ridiculously young and hot, at least 10-15 years younger than i can easily get in the USA.

What exactly do you mean when you say you can easily get them?

If you were getting them so easily, why would you be writing to them on marriage sites?

Marriage agencies put all kinds of ridiculous age ranges to get guys to sign up and message the girls. Just because a marriage agency says that a 25 year old is open to messages from guys from 30 to 60, it doesn't mean it is so. Even if she(I doubt it's even her - probably a marriage agency rep) responds to your messages, it doesn't mean anything. You are not "easily getting them". It's a fantasy.

If you can go up to a 20 something year old EU chick anywhere, in a club, bar, restaurant or what ever and get her to date you, then you are "easily get them". But, if you could do that, you wouldn't be corresponding to them on marriage sites. If you had a stable of EU chicks wanting to be with you, then you could just pick the one that is most compatible.

I am not saying this to put you down, but just to give you a dose of reality. You are not the first, and you definitely won't be the last American guy going to Ukraine in the hopes of "easily getting" a ridiculous young thing. But, 90% of the time it's just a fantasy and doomed to failure.

Post: #7

My 47 year old Ukrainian friend moved back to Ukraine. He didn't do no dating sites.

Women want him because he has his own place and has an American passport. Just the fact that you have an American passport will give them the delusion that you'll take them to America. Let them live with that delusion for the next 20 years while having your kids and cooking your meals.

I can't remember the last time that being completely truthful got me laid.

Post: #8

iknowexactly, have you been to Ukraine before?

Is this marriage agency websites or dating sites you are using? Marriage agency sites are a huge scam. Well, most of them... the woman don't normally correspond with the men. The emails are normally written by an agency member. You also got a lot of Pro daters on that site that wait to milk their prey.

I was also wondering how you plan on dealing with visa issues. As a tourist, you can only stay there 90 days in a 180 day period.

If you speak Russian then I would just meet women when I got there. If not, then you will have to pipeline English speakers until you learn Russian.

Post: #9

(08-29-2011 01:55 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  What exactly do you mean when you say you can easily get them?

If you were getting them so easily, why would you be writing to them on marriage sites?

About what I mean, please see photo below: "Winning 45 to 18," ha ha.
Just trying to set things up so they're easier when I get there.

I'm not speculating EE women like me,I'm just telling you what's actually happened, to my amazement more than yours I'm sure!

The 5 times* I've gone (with my doctorate, my good middle class manners and my willingness to work on serious relationships) within a week of getting there, a chick at least 20 years younger than me has latched on in the most delightful way. And they were all from families with an engineer or a doctor in the family. The fast talk , the DHV, the calculated indifference, all the things I stink at seem to count less there. (Of course the truth is I'm shy but also convinced I'm brilliant-- except with money and women!-so maybe that throws some Alpha weight around?)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]

Above is me at 45 with the 18 year old who insisted... ( I've religiously used sunscreen since I was about 20, rarely boozed heavily and no cigs)

I'm not saying I understand it, I'm just saying in EE, I put on the sensitive puppy dog intellectual artiste act -- it's not really an act--and it works about 300 times better than a DUI and a cowboy hat in BushWorld.

Thank. Fucking. G*d.


==========

* To Kiev, St. Pete. Moscow, Crimea (2x)

Post: #10

(08-29-2011 01:55 PM)wolf Wrote:  I can't remember the last time that being completely truthful got me laid.

The useful, brutal truth-- thanks for the refill of it!!!

Post: #11

(08-29-2011 07:16 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I'm not speculating EE women like me,I'm just telling you what's actually happened, to my amazement more than yours I'm sure!

If that's the case, then fine. It's just that the whole Mail Order Bride arena is littered with tales of guys who thought their girl was different. Guys under the delusion that their hot little 20 year old really loved them, despite their fat bellies, walmart pants with elastic waistbands and crappy little apartments in some shitty town in the middle of nowhere, USA.

Btw, instead of moving to Ukraine why not move to Turkey? It's pretty easy to get a one year visa to stay there as long as you are not working. The cost of living is low, from what I have heard a $1000 dollars a month is sufficient for a decent lifestyle, the weather is much nicer, and the Russians and Ukrainians don't need visas to come over.

Post: #12

Why does everyone assume these girls all want come to the USA. Yes I am sure they want to come to LA, NYC or Miami but those are only three cities and expensive ones at that. They don't want to live in Buffalo or Flint Michigan, they want to live the american "dream" which it is becoming these days.

I say don't worry about anything, just move there and enjoy yourself. I am looking at moving to a particular country there and I would not consider online dating. If it is that bad then I will travel to a nearby country and try my luck there.

Post: #13

There is a typical stereotype of a broad from a developing country marrying a guy from a developed country who keeps on nagging him to move back closer to her family and her country. Thais, Indians, Philippinas, etc, etc. I know of one middle aged couple like that. That kind of girl wont be on marriage with westerners websites, you have to go to eastern europe for that.

Post: #14

(08-29-2011 08:07 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  Btw, instead of moving to Ukraine why not move to Turkey? It's pretty easy to get a one year visa to stay there as long as you are not working. The cost of living is low, from what I have heard a $1000 dollars a month is sufficient for a decent lifestyle, the weather is much nicer, and the Russians and Ukrainians don't need visas to come over.

Wow, this is an outside-the-box idea I did not think of at all.

If she's really a good girl maybe visit her first in Ukraine or Russia (UOR) to get some trust going, then invite her down.

Meanwhile you can be slamming all the drunk UOR tourists in Turkey ( UORIT ha ha ) so you don't get one-itis.

This is delightfully insidious yet practical, and thus has a high likelihood of working!!

Post: #15

I dated a girl that worked for a marriage site in Tver, Russia. She was 24 with a masters from in international affairs or some shit, I met her when she was interning in the US. She claims she would write all the responses and then when a guy would travel she would escort him from date to date with all the girls she had responded for. She says its a money scheme and very few women are in it for anything other than the passport.

That being said, I say go there and assimilate, you'll not have to marry and if you do you will actually know the girl. Not just what a "professional translator" feeds you.

Post: #16

(08-30-2011 11:51 AM)Pilate Wrote:  She says its a money scheme and very few women are in it for anything other than the passport.

Russian marriage sites are targeted at the dead enders. 50+ year old guys who who want to marry a 25 year old but don't have the looks, game or life achievements to pull it off on their own. These marriage sites give them hope while sucking them dry of money.

Russian and/or Ukrainian girls are not that desperate to leave their country anymore. Sure, many of them still dream of living in the US, but they want to do it on their own terms. Not with some broke, fat, old ugly guy.

Post: #17

@Manabout

Can you break down this 1 year Visa to Turkey that you mention is easy to obtain? Is this applicable to US/EU citizens?

Mixx

Post: #18

(08-30-2011 01:50 PM)MiXX Wrote:  @Manabout

Can you break down this 1 year Visa to Turkey that you mention is easy to obtain? Is this applicable to US/EU citizens?

Mixx

This guy lays it out:

http://knol.google.com/k/jonathan-levin/...cpcg5ay/2#

In Turkey, you can simply apply at the police station for a residence permit (although you will not be able to work legally).

How to do it?
1) You need to get a Tax number - this is an easily obtained paper that means you registered with the local Tax office. There is one in Sultanahmet, Istanbul which not so far away from the Grand Bazar.
2) You need to open a bank account and put in it 300 dollars for every month you intend to register in Turkey. So for example, if you want a 3 month permit, you need 900 dollars in your account. Not everyone can open bank accounts in Turkey and some nationalities are not permitted. Also, not all the banks are very helpful, so try a few till you get one to open an account for you. Dont forget to get a copy of your bank statement which you will need to show later.
3) Take 5 passport photos of yourself.

etc....

Post: #19

This information seems more up to date:

http://www.turkishliving.com/forums/turk...011-a.html

It looks like they have increased the money you need to show to $500 for each month you plan to stay in Turkey.

Post: #20

Moving to Turkey to land a Russian bride? Now that's a bit... outlandish.
I have long recommended the Turkish resorts in order to bang Russians on vacation, but moving there?
First of all, tourist season is May to September, and peak season is even shorter, July-August. Most Europeans have to take their vacations then, as business kind of shuts down anyway. September is back-to-work, back-to-school month so resorts empty out drastically and what will you do until next season?
Second, the Turkish vacation concept mostly means a large closed-in resort with all-inclusive meals and alcohol. Great if you are in there, as you mix with the crazy girls downing their 10th free vodka-tonic, not so great if you are outside the gates. If you live in a residential area of the resort towns (Antalya for example) it's dead. There are some clubs downtown, but girls get shuttled there from their hotels and the shuttle waits to take them back at 3-4am. She'd be crazy to miss it and leave with some foreign guy in a foreign country just to hook up.

So keep it simple, go to Turkey for what it's good for, and don't get these crazy ideas.

Post: #21

(08-31-2011 03:12 AM)K-man Wrote:  Moving to Turkey to land a Russian bride? Now that's a bit... outlandish.
I have long recommended the Turkish resorts in order to bang Russians on vacation, but moving there?So keep it simple, go to Turkey for what it's good for, and don't get these crazy ideas.

Actually I was recommending Turkey as an alternative to moving to Ukraine. He already has a steady income, so he won't need to work. It's a lot nicer in the winter than Ukraine. And the Russian and Ukrainian girls can travel there without a visa. If he is communicating with one that he would like to meet, it would be pretty easy to invite her over.

Besides what does he have to lose? He can try it for 6 months or a year and see how it goes.

Post: #22

(08-29-2011 01:55 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  Also,

(08-29-2011 12:57 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I've been writing women on EE marriage sites, because at 50+ i hate chasing chicks and want to get married-- but definitely not in the USA. I like EE chix and can get ones ridiculously young and hot, at least 10-15 years younger than i can easily get in the USA.

What exactly do you mean when you say you can easily get them?

If you were getting them so easily, why would you be writing to them on marriage sites?

Marriage agencies put all kinds of ridiculous age ranges to get guys to sign up and message the girls. Just because a marriage agency says that a 25 year old is open to messages from guys from 30 to 60, it doesn't mean it is so. Even if she(I doubt it's even her - probably a marriage agency rep) responds to your messages, it doesn't mean anything. You are not "easily getting them". It's a fantasy.

If you can go up to a 20 something year old EU chick anywhere, in a club, bar, restaurant or what ever and get her to date you, then you are "easily get them". But, if you could do that, you wouldn't be corresponding to them on marriage sites. If you had a stable of EU chicks wanting to be with you, then you could just pick the one that is most compatible.

I am not saying this to put you down, but just to give you a dose of reality. You are not the first, and you definitely won't be the last American guy going to Ukraine in the hopes of "easily getting" a ridiculous young thing. But, 90% of the time it's just a fantasy and doomed to failure.

I'll second that!
Too many deluded Westerners.
Really,how many "hot young things" do you think are waiting to be rescued by a 20-30 years plus older,just getting by, Knight in plaid and cargo shorts".

It's rare,very rare these days..it's not the 80's or 90's.

Wake up!

Post: #23

(08-31-2011 09:55 AM)Pilgrim37 Wrote:  I'll second that!
Too many deluded Westerners.
....
Wake up!

Interesting apparent attempt to discourage?

Gee, I have the real-world memory of the adorable, 27-years-younger chick I boffed on one side (see pic I referred to)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]


...and your decisive, derisive assertion on the other--bravely typed on the internet .

Which evidence should I place more weight on?

Do you live in Ukraine/Russia? Maybe from there? Ever been there? Maybe a hating 27-year old from Amerika?