Post: #26

(As usual, all that follows is my personal opinion, and is not meant to be any official position/dogma.)

I suppose I should address the controversial aspects of the Bahai faith brought up in this thread. (Please note: I'm not bringing anything up to start a debate. I'm not willing to engage in divisive religious debates - I'm just sharing my personal opinions and some information so that you can make your own opinions on some matters brought up in this thread.)

It is no secret that the current Bahai administration aspires to eventually be the ruling government of the whole planet, and with that to create one global currency, language and culture. Some Bahais also interpret this goal to mean the eventual creation of one race, although I have not yet come across this concept in the actual scriptures, so it seems to be more of a made-up thing by Bahais who don't actually read the texts of their own religion (every religion seems to have those kind of people). What the texts do imply is that God created many races because, like a gardener planting different coloured roses, it was pleasing to Him, so presumable a multitude of races will continue to exist the variety pleases Him).

To achieve this end of world domination, Bahais tend to work with organizations, such as the UN, that may be able to assist towards that ultimate goal.

The Bahai administration is somewhat opposed to current globalization trends, in so much as they are driven by secular interests rather than Bahai interests.

That said, a lot of Bahais believe that the world must undergo systemic massive collapse in the near future, and that the current globalisation trend is an unstoppable inertia to a general worldwide civilizational collapse. There is a lot of fatalism regarding this in my Bahai community.

Like the Catholic Church in the aftermath of the collapse of the Roman Empire, the Bahai administration is positioning itself to be the preserver of communication, administration skills, and knowledge in a post-collapse world. And like the Catholic Church in post-Roman Europe, the Bahai faith hopes to become a dominant force in the post-collapse world.

Therefore, globalism is seen as the fire that will destroy the world and prepare it for the Bahai government, and some Bahais seem to welcome it. Indeed, globalism is seen as fulfilling the prophecies of Revelations, that the world must be destroyed before the Heavenly Kingdom can be established on earth. (Bahaullah, by the way, is considered to be the returned form of Jesus Christ, effectively marking the end of the 'old world' and the centuries of tribulation preceding the new world).

So yes, the Bahais are interested in ruling the world, abolishing all borders and languages, and creating one world government, one world culture, one world language. This is not a secret, as I said, and I personally don't see anything wrong with it. I look forward to possibly being part of the ruling elite, although I doubt any substantial power is going to be amassed by the Bahai faith in my lifetime. There is also a lack of enthusiasm to opposing globalism, given the fatalistic streak running through Bahai thought.

With regards to the idea that 'religions are equal'...

Here the problem is that Bahai law makes it compulsory to be nice to people and not offend them, and as such there is an 'outer' face of Bahai propaganda and and 'inner' aspect of the Bahai faith that is shielded from outsiders (this is why some Bahai meetings are closed to non-Bahais).

The Bahai faith's stance is that religion is an individual's personal choice that cannot be interfered with. Therefore, all religions are equal in the sense that they are to be equally tolerated as an individual's choice.

In private, the stance is that there is only one religion that is allowed to be organized - and that is the Bahai faith. In a Bahai country, all priesthoods and monasteries would be forbidden. Basically, no religion outside of the Bahai faith is allowed to be formally organized, by Bahai law. So in a Bahai theocratic state, you could be allowed to be Catholic or Muslim as you personally wish, but you would not be allowed to practice as a priest or an imam.

So in public, the Bahai faith is hippy liberal; in private, the Bahai faith is as conservatively dogmatic in its assertion of truth as any other faith, and as dogmatic that all the other religions are currently wrong, although there are protections in place for individual freedom of belief. Even Bahais are somewhat free in their interpretation of the faith, although once a Bahai starts participating in administrative structures, there is a lot of pressure to follow official dogma.

Another way this public and private face can contradict itself is with regards to gender. Publically, the Bahai faith proclaims complete gender equality. Privately, the Bahai faith remains a patriarchy, albeit with some concessions to women that were introduced by Abdul Baha, Bahaullah's son - he allowed greater participation by women in the structures of the faith, reserving only the top echelons for men but otherwise allowing women to participate. The equality of the genders is more a spiritual equality, that male and female are equal important in the eyes of God and that neither role is more important than the other - men must lead, women must breed, and both are required for the continued existence of the human race. This does put men in position to create laws that amount to an abuse of power, and this the Bahai faith openly and publicly condemns. (If you want to be cynical, that basically means that only Bahai-inspired gender discrimination is to be allowed, and that all other forms of gender discrimination, most especially that based on non-Bahai religions or cultures, must be abolished).

As for the assertion that the Bahai faith is merely an offshoot of Sufism, I can easily also accuse of Christianity of merely being an offshoot of Judaism - does a religious movement become invalid merely because it is an 'offshoot'? It's up to you to decide. Bahaism is clearly inspired by many things, especially Sufism, but it is something very, very different, just as Christianity is very different from Judaism although the one clearly comes from the other. I personally don't feel that originality is a requirement for a religion, therefore the offshoot thing doesn't bother me.

As for the number of Manifestations - the Bahai faith teaches that there are innumerable worlds with innumerable Manifestations, and that the majority of Manifestations in the world have been lost to history; but there have been Manifestations and prophets since people have been capable of worship and prayer. Bahaullah did not create a definitive list of Manifestations, he merely mentioned a few of the big ones, so if your chosen religious founder is not in His list, that's okay, the list wasn't meant to be comprehensive, it was meant to just have some illustrative examples pertinent to the time.

The next Manifestation is due sometime after the year 2844 AD (or the year 1000 in the Bahai calendar), although whether the next Manifestation will arrive exactly at that time or will only arrive centuries or ages after that is not known. Any new religion founded between 1844 AD and 2844 AD (i.e between 1 - 1000 in the Bahai Era calendar) is to be considered a fraud.

I'm just sharing stuff, I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone and I'm not going to engage in any arguments or goal-orientated discussions, but I will share more of my opinions/information if requested.

Post: #27

So it seems validated by Thomas the Rymer that Bahai's main purpose is prosperity and influence of their organization rather then spiritual transformation and empowerment of the individual. Totalitarian undertones are also there.

It seems that joining this cult ( I belive at this point it is fair game to call it a cult because it is all about the organization and little about the human being and personal connection to the divine) is similar to joining Freemasons - you do it for networking, for connections and hope that the benefits outweigh the duties. You also have to abandon your national loyalty for loyalty to this organization and your culture and traditions for something artificial.

So how has this worked out for you this far? Has it been worth it? Have you milked more milk from the cow then you have spent feeding it? Or have you gradually been sucked in and transformed into a true believer running errands for the committees and organizations of events and hoping to see some big reward somewhen in the abstract later?

Post: #28

(05-01-2017 01:51 AM)Mage Wrote:  So how has this worked out for you this far? Has it been worth it? Have you milked more milk from the cow then you have spent feeding it? Or have you gradually been sucked in and transformed into a true believer running errands for the committees and organizations of events and hoping to see some big reward somewhen in the abstract later?

You're being mean.

Post: #29

(05-01-2017 12:49 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  It is no secret that the current Bahai administration aspires to eventually be the ruling government of the whole planet, and with that to create one global currency, language and culture. Some Bahais also interpret this goal to mean the eventual creation of one race, although I have not yet come across this concept in the actual scriptures, so it seems to be more of a made-up thing by Bahais who don't actually read the texts of their own religion (every religion seems to have those kind of people). What the texts do imply is that God created many races because, like a gardener planting different coloured roses, it was pleasing to Him, so presumable a multitude of races will continue to exist the variety pleases Him).

To achieve this end of world domination, Bahais tend to work with organizations, such as the UN, that may be able to assist towards that ultimate goal.

The Bahai administration is somewhat opposed to current globalization trends, in so much as they are driven by secular interests rather than Bahai interests.

That said, a lot of Bahais believe that the world must undergo systemic massive collapse in the near future, and that the current globalisation trend is an unstoppable inertia to a general worldwide civilizational collapse. There is a lot of fatalism regarding this in my Bahai community.

Like the Catholic Church in the aftermath of the collapse of the Roman Empire, the Bahai administration is positioning itself to be the preserver of communication, administration skills, and knowledge in a post-collapse world. And like the Catholic Church in post-Roman Europe, the Bahai faith hopes to become a dominant force in the post-collapse world.

Therefore, globalism is seen as the fire that will destroy the world and prepare it for the Bahai government, and some Bahais seem to welcome it. Indeed, globalism is seen as fulfilling the prophecies of Revelations, that the world must be destroyed before the Heavenly Kingdom can be established on earth. (Bahaullah, by the way, is considered to be the returned form of Jesus Christ, effectively marking the end of the 'old world' and the centuries of tribulation preceding the new world).

So yes, the Bahais are interested in ruling the world, abolishing all borders and languages, and creating one world government, one world culture, one world language. This is not a secret, as I said, and I personally don't see anything wrong with it. I look forward to possibly being part of the ruling elite, although I doubt any substantial power is going to be amassed by the Bahai faith in my lifetime. There is also a lack of enthusiasm to opposing globalism, given the fatalistic streak running through Bahai thought.

With regards to the idea that 'religions are equal'...

Here the problem is that Bahai law makes it compulsory to be nice to people and not offend them, and as such there is an 'outer' face of Bahai propaganda and and 'inner' aspect of the Bahai faith that is shielded from outsiders (this is why some Bahai meetings are closed to non-Bahais).

The Bahai faith's stance is that religion is an individual's personal choice that cannot be interfered with. Therefore, all religions are equal in the sense that they are to be equally tolerated as an individual's choice.

In private, the stance is that there is only one religion that is allowed to be organized - and that is the Bahai faith. In a Bahai country, all priesthoods and monasteries would be forbidden. Basically, no religion outside of the Bahai faith is allowed to be formally organized, by Bahai law. So in a Bahai theocratic state, you could be allowed to be Catholic or Muslim as you personally wish, but you would not be allowed to practice as a priest or an imam.

Fucking A - that is a lot worse than I thought. No wonder the Satanist-inspired globalists support that crap!

That is utter and complete evil. And you are following that path?

Amazing - want to be one of the ruling elite after the world collapses? Then rule with an iron hand where there are no borders, forced interracial breeding camps and no other religions or paths?

Yeah - sounds like a wonderful Gulag-utopia of the mind.

Of course they have zero chance of even reaching any prominent positions - not without arming themselves like crazy and spilling blood.

This path is a totalitarian shitshow clad in peaceful clothing. So it is a truly like the UN! Heheh - fantastic indeed.

Why not join ISIS or some other fascist totalitarian idealistic path that wants to create utopia on earth and rule it with an iron hand in an eternally peaceful way?

Thanks for the update Thomas - really informative.

Post: #30

(05-01-2017 06:18 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 01:51 AM)Mage Wrote:  So how has this worked out for you this far? Has it been worth it? Have you milked more milk from the cow then you have spent feeding it? Or have you gradually been sucked in and transformed into a true believer running errands for the committees and organizations of events and hoping to see some big reward somewhen in the abstract later?

You're being mean.

I am sorry, you just confessed belonging to a doomsday cult that wants to ban all religion and destroy all countries and rule the world and I am being the mean one? Your cult is straight up evil!

By suggesting that you might be in this just for personal benefit exploiting the organization I gave path for you to save face and portray yourself as a lesser of two evils - as a smug operator who uses dogmatic religious fanatics for easy ride towards money and possibly sex, but are you saying you actually support the endgame goals of this cult?

Post: #31

I don't agree with Thomas the Rymers PoV. From what I have seen of Baha'is IRL genuinely friendly people who want to make things better. The typical trappings of a cult (massive tithing and the male leadership getting to nail young girls) are non-existent.

There is quite a large body of writings, so I can't say for sure what a Baha'i government would look like. I have read passages that make it clear if the Baha'is administration is offered to rule a country that they are to refuse. A knowledgeable Baha'i I know figures that to achieve many of it's goals (such as new forms of democracy, taxation, social laws) likely never need to more than a third of the population.

I haven't read anything indicating that the Baha'i Faith would see itself to have the right to legislate how other religions could organize.

As for the doomsday but, again Baha'is believe the current affairs of the world are the "old world order" falling apart and that a new way of doing things needs to arise. This is something many people seem to realize whether Baha'i or not. (I.e. This forum, RoK, etc)

Post: #32

(05-01-2017 10:04 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  I don't agree with Thomas the Rymers PoV. From what I have seen of Baha'is IRL genuinely friendly people who want to make things better. The typical trappings of a cult (massive tithing and the male leadership getting to nail young girls) are non-existent.

These criteria are for small cults with leaders who only have small ambitions like getting a lot of money and having a lot of sex. Cults who's leaders want serious political power can organize in much more "virtuous" manner - just look at Mormonism or Scientology.

(05-01-2017 10:04 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  There is quite a large body of writings, so I can't say for sure what a Baha'i government would look like. I have read passages that make it clear if the Baha'is administration is offered to rule a country that they are to refuse. A knowledgeable Baha'i I know figures that to achieve many of it's goals (such as new forms of democracy, taxation, social laws) likely never need to more than a third of the population.

An organized minority of whatever ideology can direct and lead a disorganized majority. One third it more then enough you can achieve that with one fifth and even less. Muslims say they need only one fifth of population to switch from defensive Jihad to offensive Jihad and enforce Sharia.
Do the Bahai ideas about the new forms of government and taxation work? We will be able to judge in a two step process 1. Theoretical - if it resembles failed systems like Islam or Communism it won't work 2. Practical - When and if the first Bahai run societies emerge we will see how life is in these societies and economies. Anyway there needs to be a local test run before it becomes something global and bahai need to recognize this rather then accept their economic model with faith. Currently there is very little info on internet about bahai theory and there is no example of their practice.

(05-01-2017 10:04 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  As for the doomsday but, again Baha'is believe the current affairs of the world are the "old world order" falling apart and that a new way of doing things needs to arise. This is something many people seem to realize whether Baha'i or not. (I.e. This forum, RoK, etc)

There is probably a difference on how RoK and Bahai look at the fall of civilization. RoK looks at the demise of western civilization with sadness and some still have hope it would not happen, many fight to save what they can from this civilization so that the next has a better start. Rok readers and writers would probably like to preserve as much knowledge as possible - be it Christian writings or writings of antique or modern philospohers and scientists be they theists, atheists or pagans alike. Bahai probably look at the fall of civilization with expectation. I can bet Bahai as organization wouldn't move a finger to preserve works of Thomas Aquinas or Aristotle, as religious organization they don't care - they only care about their literature surviving. Maybe some individual Bahai believer would save non-Bahai knowledge, but the organization as a whole couldn't car less - the less knowledge survives after the fall the more their Bahai message would look like something unique and unparalleled.

Post: #33

(04-27-2017 11:35 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  2.) All religions & races equal in the eyes of God. ("better to worship God through a stone than not at all".) Recognize Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Bhuddism as Major World religions.

3.) Context of the religion is Sh'ite/Sufi Islam, however this leads to #4.

5.) Encourage inter-racial/creed/clain marriage as the solution to racism & tribalism.

(05-01-2017 12:49 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  It is no secret that the current Bahai administration aspires to eventually be the ruling government of the whole planet, and with that to create one global currency, language and culture. Some Bahais also interpret this goal to mean the eventual creation of one race, although I have not yet come across this concept in the actual scriptures, so it seems to be more of a made-up thing by Bahais who don't actually read the texts of their own religion (every religion seems to have those kind of people). What the texts do imply is that God created many races because, like a gardener planting different coloured roses, it was pleasing to Him, so presumable a multitude of races will continue to exist the variety pleases Him).

To achieve this end of world domination, Bahais tend to work with organizations, such as the UN, that may be able to assist towards that ultimate goal.

The Bahai administration is somewhat opposed to current globalization trends, in so much as they are driven by secular interests rather than Bahai interests.

That said, a lot of Bahais believe that the world must undergo systemic massive collapse in the near future, and that the current globalisation trend is an unstoppable inertia to a general worldwide civilizational collapse. There is a lot of fatalism regarding this in my Bahai community.

Like the Catholic Church in the aftermath of the collapse of the Roman Empire, the Bahai administration is positioning itself to be the preserver of communication, administration skills, and knowledge in a post-collapse world. And like the Catholic Church in post-Roman Europe, the Bahai faith hopes to become a dominant force in the post-collapse world.

Therefore, globalism is seen as the fire that will destroy the world and prepare it for the Bahai government, and some Bahais seem to welcome it. Indeed, globalism is seen as fulfilling the prophecies of Revelations, that the world must be destroyed before the Heavenly Kingdom can be established on earth. (Bahaullah, by the way, is considered to be the returned form of Jesus Christ, effectively marking the end of the 'old world' and the centuries of tribulation preceding the new world).

So yes, the Bahais are interested in ruling the world, abolishing all borders and languages, and creating one world government, one world culture, one world language. This is not a secret, as I said, and I personally don't see anything wrong with it. I look forward to possibly being part of the ruling elite, although I doubt any substantial power is going to be amassed by the Bahai faith in my lifetime. There is also a lack of enthusiasm to opposing globalism, given the fatalistic streak running through Bahai thought.

With regards to the idea that 'religions are equal'...

Here the problem is that Bahai law makes it compulsory to be nice to people and not offend them, and as such there is an 'outer' face of Bahai propaganda and and 'inner' aspect of the Bahai faith that is shielded from outsiders (this is why some Bahai meetings are closed to non-Bahais).

The Bahai faith's stance is that religion is an individual's personal choice that cannot be interfered with. Therefore, all religions are equal in the sense that they are to be equally tolerated as an individual's choice.

In private, the stance is that there is only one religion that is allowed to be organized - and that is the Bahai faith. In a Bahai country, all priesthoods and monasteries would be forbidden. Basically, no religion outside of the Bahai faith is allowed to be formally organized, by Bahai law. So in a Bahai theocratic state, you could be allowed to be Catholic or Muslim as you personally wish, but you would not be allowed to practice as a priest or an imam.

So in public, the Bahai faith is hippy liberal; in private, the Bahai faith is as conservatively dogmatic in its assertion of truth as any other faith, and as dogmatic that all the other religions are currently wrong, although there are protections in place for individual freedom of belief. Even Bahais are somewhat free in their interpretation of the faith, although once a Bahai starts participating in administrative structures, there is a lot of pressure to follow official dogma.

Sounds like a horrible nightmare.

Post: #34

Let me put this straight.

Since the Baha'i work so closely with the UN it is virtually impossible for at least the top tier of their leadership to be not aware of the long-range plans of the UN.

The UN actually wants to unite all religions into one, which essentially would obliterate most of them because you cannot put Islam and Buddhism in the same category and neither can you Christianity and Buddhism. They certainly cannot believe in this COEXIST nonsense.

Thus Thomas' take on the future abolition of all temples but their on religion makes perfect sense, because the UN is after that as well. The same goes for global warming which is supposedly going to be set up a Gaia green earth worship.

I don't see Thomas' support for the Baha'i as anything bad honestly. Judaism has at it's core the idea that the Chosen People are going to rule the earth completely - the Talmud being more specific with the Goym being enslaved under Jewish leadership. Islam is an even worse shitshow of total domination under Islam with most of the non-Muslims either dead, enslaved or paying high taxes - while living in a medieval sharia system.

The political activism of the Baha'i even at their current level - coupled with a strong support of the UN to their cause - that is more concerning. But even then - it is certainly a legion better than Islam. There are way more logical reasons to be part of that path.

Post: #35

It seems to me that one of the reasons for the promotion of the Baha'i by the UN is the fact that the globalists want to merge all major religions into one incorporating various elements so that everyone will feel sort of welcome while in reality the religions would be banned.

They would simply abolish the old and replace it with elements of Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age etc - so that most people would accept it, since it looks sort of similar. Of course some paths like Islam would be drastically changed, but others like Buddhism would not be affected by it that much.

Here an old talk by a likely insider from 1969:

https://100777.com/nwo/barbarians#22

Quote:BLENDING ALL RELIGIONS...THE OLD RELIGIONS WILL HAVE TO GO

Another area of discussion was Religion. This is an avowed atheist speaking. And he said, "Religion is not necessarily bad. A lot of people seem to need religion, with it's mysteries and rituals - so they will have religion. But the major religions of today have to be changed because they are not compatible with the changes to come. The old religions will have to go. Especially Christianity. Once the Roman Catholic Church is brought down, the rest of Christianity will follow easily. Then a new religion can be accepted for use all over the world. It will incorporate something from all of the old ones to make it more easy for people to accept it, and feel at home in it. Most people won't be too concerned with religion. They will realize that they don't need it.

Something like the Baha'I would be very useful to them. Of course no one from that religion would rule at anything at all, but being religious figureheads is worth something as well I guess. And if you look at the likes of church leaders in the US, the Catholic Pope or the Dalai Lama - they all seem to be converging nicely on globalist topics and pulling the same party line.