Post: #1

Something that has come up in Poland is a girl stating that she has a rule. (I don't remember getting this in the States.) There are two I've encountered:

1. "I don't kiss on the first night."
2. "I don't have sex on the first date."

When a girl states that she has a "rule" not to do something (using that exact word), I find it to be difficult to break. 90% of them stick with it to the bitter end. I've tried three tactics to overcome this:

1. Directly challenge the rule as being short-sighted, boring.
2. Ignore the rule like I didn't hear it.
3. Follow her rule and wait it out.

The first tactic doesn't work: she completely puts up her guard, ready to defend it until death. The second tactic works a bit better. I can get real close, but eventually the rule comes up. Last night I met a girl who had a "I don't kiss on the first night" rule. I broke her down so that we had a short closed mouth kiss on the lips, but this was unsatisfying to me. The third rule actually does work, but this guarantees I won't get sex for at least one night, maybe two.

Any other suggestions on what to try?

A tactic I want to use now is challenge the rule by using humor that doesn't trigger her defense (agree & absurdify). This is what I will say next:

"That's a great rule. It protects you from guys like me who want to use you for your body, but I read in the newspaper that an asteroid is going to crash on the earth tomorrow. Unfortunately, we're all going to die. So, do you want to come to my place now of after another drink? "

I know it will get a laugh, but probably not more.

Post: #2

I'd reply

"That is so awesome! I have the same rule too! Good to know because there's no way any girl, especially Polish, can get me to break my rule....ever!"

Now, my dear Roosh, sit back and watch the magic unfold...


* Yes, I am a selfish asshole, but it gets me laid.

Mixx

Post: #3

My strategy for this is to completely ignore the rule and move on. Treat it as a shit test. Try and get her to forget her bullshit rule by sexual escalation. If I comment on her rule, it goes something like this:

Her: I don't kiss on the first date.
Me: Good, cuz I don't even hold hands till the 3rd date. I'm not as easy as you think.

Work it right and she'll try to get you to break your rule. Put the ball i her court. That's when you can bust her out. Most guys don't have rules, and this throws the chicks off.

In the end some girls are adamant, and won't budge, no matter how bad they want it on the first night. This becomes apparent when they are begging to fuck within 2 hours on the 2nd date.

Post: #4

Now that I read Ali-B's response. I would MERGE my answer with his.

If after you playfully mention you have the same rule, and she is still being a too thick-headed pole too stupid to have a good time with your playful vibe, pull an Ali-B and MOVE ON!


I doubt many male poles have EVER tried to playfully break her rule the way I mentioned. If she's too stupid to see that and reward you for it, chances are she'll bite your dick like a noobie during a BJ. NEXT!

Post: #5

I would setup a challenge and say "I don't fall in love til the 3rd date". You have to say it with a straight face though.
If she laughs then you have her. Go for the kiss.

Post: #6

I like Mixx's line, but the rule usually comes up when I'm in the process of escalating. So if I say it right when I'm trying to kiss her, it won't seem believable. I can say it if she mentions the rule earlier, though.

Quote:In the end some girls are adamant, and won't budge, no matter how bad they want it on the first night. This becomes apparent when they are begging to fuck within 2 hours on the 2nd date.

Yup. I had a date with a "no sex on first night" girl and at the end of it she essentially said she will fuck me next time, which she did. The Polish girls really stick by their rules... it's not that they're just playing hard to get.

I think I've banged all the easiest sluts in this town. The past two months I've had to go out on actual dates to get laid.

Post: #7

I've encountered "rules" girls in America, and there doesn't appear to be any way around their principles other than to wait it out.

Quote:I like Mixx's line, but the rule usually comes up when I'm in the process of escalating.

That's exactly what happens... you get back to her place, on the first night. You're making out with her, taking off her clothes. "We're not having sex tonight." She literally pushes me out the door after that.

Then on the 1st date, I get her back to my place, undress her some more. "This is as far as you're getting." She resists my every move and then walks out.

If it's any consolation, these girls are only sticking by their rules to protect themselves from players. Waiting is a good strategy for women because it helps them get rid of men who aren't "serious" enough for them.

The best solution I have is to date concurrently, but you already knew that.



Here are some other creative ideas.

"I don't kiss on the first night."
*You then pull out your cell phone. It's 12:01 am.*
"Okay, a new night as started. Time to kiss me."

"I don't have sex on the first date."
"Well the second date starts now."

Post: #8

The rule will fuck you almost all the time, if it's really their rule. I've run into this a few times in the deep south, the girls do exactly as you said, and mention their rule during my escalation. At that point you must determine if you believe them or not. If you do, have an emergency come up. I use to act like I got a phone call and explain I had to go pick up a buddy or something to end that night with them as soon as possible since their rules are significant to them. I spent the rest of the night at the next bar, gaming the next bitch. The next morning after girl from bar two went home, I would text rule girl, "sorry about last night, joe didn't handle his booze very well. Let me make it up to you. (insert bar) at 8."

Now their rule is null and void because its the second date, and you proved you will call, which is their fear.

I you don't believe them I use the example above.

Post: #9

Rules are meant to be broken.

Post: #10

It's funny when women being the illogical and emotional creatures that they are try to impose things like rules.

It's like a man saying he's not in the mood for sex.

Post: #11

I once met a girl who had a "contract with God" never to have sex again until she was married. After some dirty dancing and fingering in the back alley she was up for fucking in her office bathroom the next day. Sorry about that, God.

Post: #12

You could pre-emt it, stating it before she does, then flip the script
saying "I can't believe i'm breaking my own rule.....etc."
Go on about how you have such a "connection" etc.
That way, at least you're in the drivers seat before it happens.

Post: #13

In general, I don't think there's any magic line. Or the magic line won't be much more effective than being your typical cocky funny self. Your logistics should be your first priority. Secure a place most amenable to making out, in an isolated spot, after she's drank a bit. Don't trawl new territory on first dates - create a setup, and stick with it. If she refuses, act like nothing happened, resume gaming, and try again.

You could try adding in a creative romantic activity to your dates - I recently made smores with an FB, and I think it'll work well on first dates, as I have a rooftop fireplace.

I once had a date with a chick who insisted "I have to spend 24 [cumulative] hours with a man before I'll kiss him." A real nut. Just the other night, I had a date with an 18 year old virgin. But she admitted when asked to having a promise ring, and pointed to her friend who had been dating a guy for 5 years without sex. But I mostly meet "I'm a good girl!" girls, who bang on the first date.

I've had trouble with girls not coming back after first dates. One girl told me "I'm not used to moving so quickly, and it scared me." She didn't mind that night, where it went no further than groping breasts, and she even sent me a sweet text when she got home. Once I start making out, I have little appetite for talking. Maybe the romantic activity can help out here.

Post: #14

Excuse my ignorance, but what the heck is a promise ring? I've never heard of that by any woman in my life.

Mixx

Post: #15

(08-25-2011 11:23 AM)MiXX Wrote:  Excuse my ignorance, but what the heck is a promise ring? I've never heard of that by any woman in my life.

Mixx

Also known as a purity or chastity ring. A vow not to have sex outside of marriage. At the least, she said she had to love the guy and have dated him for a while.

PS: I dig the 'absurdify' of 'agree and absurdify.' It's evocative of better game than merely 'amplifying.'

Post: #16

Ha! No wonder I've never heard of it. Thanks for making that clear.

Mixx

Post: #17

my friend said "Promise Ring = here's some jewelry now shut the fuck up".



Honestly, I have a 3 pronged approach to dealing with this.

1) Smirk and let out a cocky "humph" semi laugh sound of cockiness. try again in a few minutes.
2) "Rules are made to broken and you cant make broken rules" - Ludacris.
3) wait and add her to your "rotation"

Now, I actually really like option 3. Sure, it's not the quickest path, but once you've built up enough of a roster of girls it doesn't really matter. So a girl wont sleep with you till the 3rd or 5th "date"? Hang out with her twice for like an hour or two each time, charm her, and then go to the girl you're already sleeping with, etc.

Yes, this approach sucks when you're new to a city or area, but once you have enough girls that want to see you, you can cycle between them easily, and the more girls you have, the less you have to worry about "smothering" a girl with all of your attention. Having girls leads to having more girls, no matter what speed it's at.

This kind of approach actually lets you practice a type of seduction via self control, because so many girls are either used to or get some sort of high from having guys make a move and then shutting them down with their "rule", only to see the guy get frustrated. But when shes out with you and you're relaxed and not trying to feel her up, she'll get all confused, flustered, and will send you the most obvious attraction signals just to validate herself.

So yeah dude, treat this shit like a sports roster. You have your starters, your relievers, your closers, your designated hitters, and a farm system

Post: #18

(08-25-2011 08:19 AM)Roosh Wrote:  humor that doesn't trigger her defense (agree & absurdify).

That rule seems like a good idea, but it's not long enough. You should wait at least ten dates. Women are not smart and independent enough to make such important decisions for themselves. Let me undress you to put on a chastity belt now.

Post: #19

I seem to encounter a lot of these "rules" chicks in the US. I must be a magnet for them. The problem with these types of girls is that they're hyper-principled and do things strictly based on their stubborn, idiotic principles. I've had girls moaning on my bed, dying to be fucked, but refusing to take off their tight-ass jeans because of some rule they've set for themselves.

Bottomline: "Respect" her rule. If you ridicule it, laugh at it, or otherwise question it too much, you will dry up the pussy.

Tactics:

1. "I understand" and keep escalating physically. If it's a no-kissing rule, keep trying and use the excuse that "the flesh is weak." She'll laugh with you, will find it endearing, and might break down. If it's a no-sex rule, use your best over-the-clothes game. You all should have mastered snake-like moves for removing the bra under the shirt, rubbing the pussy over the jeans, grinding your raging boner against her (for young girls especially), and finding the weak spots that get her going. If she protests, say "you're right. let's take a break," and resume in a few minutes. Wear her down. Women are weak.

2. "Hmm. That makes things difficult. Let's try to find a loophole." If she's even a little cool, she'll find this fun. You're respecting the rule, but you're subtly asserting your will. Sure, you're intellectualizing the act, but you can do this in a subtly sexual way. You can also do this while doing "acceptable" physical contact the whole time (hugging her around the waist, lying on top of her on the bed).

3. Aggro Game. It's risky, but I'm still surprised how often a little physical doubling-down works. Girl backs up and says, "no kissing on the first date, it's a rule of mine," after a smooth kiss-move from me? Okay. A few minutes later, I grab her around the waist and bring her in for a harder move. No sex? A little hair pulling and semi-playful, semi-aggressive crushing into the bed goes a long way.

The bottomline is that, odds are, you're not going break through in most cases. But, sometimes you will and the times that I have, I've done it with these tactics.

Post: #20

(08-25-2011 12:51 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  This kind of approach actually lets you practice a type of seduction via self control, because so many girls are either used to or get some sort of high from having guys make a move and then shutting them down with their "rule", only to see the guy get frustrated. But when shes out with you and you're relaxed and not trying to feel her up, she'll get all confused, flustered, and will send you the most obvious attraction signals just to validate herself.

Not making a big deal out of it will send her hamster wheel spinning. It shows her that she's not in control of your emotions.

When objections come up I give it one more push with a cocky / A&A response, another shot at escalating to see if it's just token resistance set to crumble. Then I back off after that.

Post: #21

Oh man this just came up last night. I was making out with this girl and thing started getting good and she pulled the line:

"I don't sleep with anyone im not in a relationship with."

My response:

"I don't have a relationship with anyone I don't have sex with first."

She asked for my reasoning and I told her sex and a relationship are two completely different things. A Lot of people try to mix them. I am a very sexual person and why am I going to spend time getting emotionally involved in someone who might turn out to be terrible in bed. Most girls say if you love someone what does it matter? But I would much rather love someone who is also good in bed.

She laughed and said my reasoning was very valid.

I got the bang.

Post: #22

(08-25-2011 03:29 PM)Clearwaterkid Wrote:  Oh man this just came up last night. I was making out with this girl and thing started getting good and she pulled the line:

"I don't sleep with anyone im not in a relationship with."

My response:

"I don't have a relationship with anyone I don't have sex with first."

She asked for my reasoning and I told her sex and a relationship are two completely different things. A Lot of people try to mix them. I am a very sexual person and why am I going to spend time getting emotionally involved in someone who might turn out to be terrible in bed. Most girls say if you love someone what does it matter? But I would much rather love someone who is also good in bed.

She laughed and said my reasoning was very valid.

I got the bang.

This is brilliant. I'm usually too pissed off to articulate the same concept in the moment. Gonna commit this to memory.

Post: #23

(08-25-2011 01:42 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  I seem to encounter a lot of these "rules" chicks in the US. I must be a magnet for them. The problem with these types of girls is that they're hyper-principled and do things strictly based on their stubborn, idiotic principles. I've had girls moaning on my bed, dying to be fucked, but refusing to take off their tight-ass jeans because of some rule they've set for themselves.

Bottomline: "Respect" her rule. If you ridicule it, laugh at it, or otherwise question it too much, you will dry up the pussy.

Tactics:

1. "I understand" and keep escalating physically. If it's a no-kissing rule, keep trying and use the excuse that "the flesh is weak." She'll laugh with you, will find it endearing, and might break down. If it's a no-sex rule, use your best over-the-clothes game. You all should have mastered snake-like moves for removing the bra under the shirt, rubbing the pussy over the jeans, grinding your raging boner against her (for young girls especially), and finding the weak spots that get her going. If she protests, say "you're right. let's take a break," and resume in a few minutes. Wear her down. Women are weak.

2. "Hmm. That makes things difficult. Let's try to find a loophole." If she's even a little cool, she'll find this fun. You're respecting the rule, but you're subtly asserting your will. Sure, you're intellectualizing the act, but you can do this in a subtly sexual way. You can also do this while doing "acceptable" physical contact the whole time (hugging her around the waist, lying on top of her on the bed).

3. Aggro Game. It's risky, but I'm still surprised how often a little physical doubling-down works. Girl backs up and says, "no kissing on the first date, it's a rule of mine," after a smooth kiss-move from me? Okay. A few minutes later, I grab her around the waist and bring her in for a harder move. No sex? A little hair pulling and semi-playful, semi-aggressive crushing into the bed goes a long way.

The bottomline is that, odds are, you're not going break through in most cases. But, sometimes you will and the times that I have, I've done it with these tactics.

#2 is very clever. I feel like I've done so much growing up on in the last few weeks just from reading your stories/advice on here. Long live the forum!

Post: #24

What's wrong with going on a second date? You still get the bang.
Gives you something to look forward to. Also I find this usually works in my favour. It is a way to build your pool for the week ahead.
Last weekend I went on a 5 hour solo bender and put in enough work to seal 3 solid dates over the following fortnight. I did not care that I was not going to get a bang that night.
If you make a good enough impression (say 1 - 2 hours per girl) it gives her enough time to soak in the prospect of sex on your next encounter. So she trims her bush and makes a bit more extra effort etc etc. Most girls dont go out prepared to fuck unless she's a slapper which is great for the ONS. But maybe this way you may get a few more quality bitches.

I appreciate this is a thread about how to overcome this but just thought I'd throw it in there.

Post: #25

(08-25-2011 03:54 PM)Richie Wrote:  What's wrong with going on a second date? You still get the bang.
Gives you something to look forward to. Also I find this usually works in my favour. It is a way to build your pool for the week ahead.
Last weekend I went on a 5 hour solo bender and put in enough work to seal 3 solid dates over the following fortnight. I did not care that I was not going to get a bang that night.
If you make a good enough impression (say 1 - 2 hours per girl) it gives her enough time to soak in the prospect of sex on your next encounter. So she trims her bush and makes a bit more extra effort etc etc. Most girls dont go out prepared to fuck unless she's a slapper which is great for the ONS. But maybe this way you may get a few more quality bitches.

I appreciate this is a thread about how to overcome this but just thought I'd throw it in there.

I've had a lot of bad luck with second dates lately, maybe it's a streak. I've been trying to go for the ONS everytime now...