Post: #1

I've been staying in US soil for 4 days now. Things I found out:

-I can get a 130$ fine for "jay walking", something I never heard before. There are police people dressed as civilians out there to fine me.

-The university I'm currently enrolled at needs to send a "report" every two weeks on me to the US government. I constantly need to update my local residence adress, so they know where I am and what I'm up to.

-I can't do one of my favourite pre-party rituals, ie walking my way to the venue sipping my warm-up beer. I'm "not allowed" to drink "in public places".

-Although I'm 24 and -look- 24 or older, I still need to show ID to prove I'm over 21... to buy a freaking beer I can't drink on the street.

-I just attempted my first night out to party/practice my game in foreign lands and the bouncers didn't let me in a half empty club because I only had a colored xerox copy of my passaport, as I am cautious about the most important document I can carry abroad and don't feel like going out partying and drinking with it on my pocket.

... and this is not mainland USA, its freaking Honolulu. I wasnt't expecting this kinda crap on the edge of US soil.

We in Brazil are used to partying naked on the streets. We like to party, drink and f***. Honolulu is a beautiful place with amazing, caring, respectful and gentle people. I do not doubt most americans are likewise.

Why do you guys take this crap?

When are the UK revolts coming to the US?

I feel like shitting in the streets as a protest.

Post: #2

Welcome to América Cara. The Land of the "free".

I feel your pain. Once I set foot in South America, I realize I live in a society that must make something as crossing the street a crime to make money!

Officers say that Jaywalking enforcement fine are for your safety; bullshit. I got hit by a car last week in Fargo while crossing the street at a crosswalk, and the light signal to cross in my favor!

Oh wait! now I have to go spend money to file a lawsuit against this prick not paying attention, because if I just punch him in the face for hitting me with his car, I'd be in jail for assault.

Mixx

Post: #3

I'd recommend you chill out, stop worrying about it, and move past it so you can achieve greater things without fear.

About your concerns:
1. I jaywalk multiple times a day, pop illegal u-turns, run stop signs, etc and I've NEVER gotten a fine.

2. Do you have a link about universities sending a report to the govt every 2 weeks? If you're so concerned about the government knowing where you live, start giving them a UPS Store address after you start renting one of their mailboxes. It's not a PO Box.

3. Haven't you heard of the paper bag rule? Look at the homeless people for tips on how to overcome this.

4. You're complaining about being 24 and having to show ID? There are many people under 21 that look older than you, they are completely justified in asking you for ID if you're obviously under 35. As for the law, disagree with it but it's saved countless lives lost due to drunk driving. In Europe the drinking age is lower but it's not a car culture like here.

5. You are unclear whether your xerox copy of your passport was rejected in Hawaii or another land. If it's Hawaii, why didnt you just bring your normal ID? If it's outside the USA, then what does it have to do with the US Police state!?


I break the law all the damn time but never get caught because law enforcement is looking for people trying to cause trouble and idiots. Don't be one of these two and you'll fall in between the cracks. Big Brother has much bigger fish to fry.

(08-25-2011 06:05 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  I've been staying in US soil for 4 days now. Things I found out:

-I can get a 130$ fine for "jay walking", something I never heard before. There are police people dressed as civilians out there to fine me.

-The university I'm currently enrolled at needs to send a "report" every two weeks on me to the US government. I constantly need to update my local residence adress, so they know where I am and what I'm up to.

-I can't do one of my favourite pre-party rituals, ie walking my way to the venue sipping my warm-up beer. I'm "not allowed" to drink "in public places".

-Although I'm 24 and -look- 24 or older, I still need to show ID to prove I'm over 21... to buy a freaking beer I can't drink on the street.

-I just attempted my first night out to party/practice my game in foreign lands and the bouncers didn't let me in a half empty club because I only had a colored xerox copy of my passaport, as I am cautious about the most important document I can carry abroad and don't feel like going out partying and drinking with it on my pocket.

... and this is not mainland USA, its freaking Honolulu. I wasnt't expecting this kinda crap on the edge of US soil.

We in Brazil are used to partying naked on the streets. We like to party, drink and f***. Honolulu is a beautiful place with amazing, caring, respectful and gentle people. I do not doubt most americans are likewise.

Why do you guys take this crap?

When are the UK revolts coming to the US?

I feel like shitting in the streets as a protest.

Post: #4

-I jaywalk like a boss in Philadelphia, and have NEVER EVER even been close to the possibility of getting fined for it. You'd probably only get a fine if an accident is caused because of it.

-Yeah, the address thing is gay.

-Get a flask or do the paper bag thing. Problem solved. Or just drink it before you go, and then leave for the venue. A minor nuisance, I agree.

-It literally takes me about 5 seconds to pull out my driver's license. It's not THAT big of a deal...never understood why people complain about this.

-Most bars/clubs will lose their liquor licenses if underage people are let in and are caught. The bounces would rather err on the side of caution than let in someone with a shady photocopy of a document. I agree it sucks to have to bring the real thing out, but welcome to the US!

Post: #5

In Los Angeles once, I jaywalked when there were no cars coming. A cop appears, stops, gets out of his car, and starts berating me for jaywalking when I had a red light. I was incredulous; this would never happen in NY, for example. That day I happened to be wearing a t-shirt with a police badge on it, and he asked me if I knew a cop, and I said I had police in my family. "OK, this time you get a warning," he said, sternly. Gee, thanks.

You'll find more little examples as you stay in the US. There are a lot of rules.

Post: #6

Amour-

"I can't do one of my favourite pre-party rituals, ie walking my way to the venue sipping my warm-up beer. I'm "not allowed" to drink "in public places"."

I feel you on this one. Being able to drink in public is the shit. Also most cops in the U.S. are huge pricks with massive inferiority complexes so they're always down to fuck with someone who looks like they are having a good time. The only city I noticed you could get away with things like this is San Francisco. There I never had a problem drinking in the streets and smoking weed in the streets.

Post: #7

I hate the police state, it blows. Vote libertarian. Both Republicans and Democrats increase the state's power every time they are in office. The libertarians aren't too bright either but at least they'll cut back on some laws.

Post: #8

The USA also stands for United Sue of America, which means means folks/companies/interest groups are very quick to sue. Therefore many businesses, jurisdictions, etc have been trained to VERIFY EVERYTHING. That beer seller has to at least ASK for ID. Now if your ID is fake but looks authentic and it turns out that you were underage and drove a car and damaged property/person, then that business cannot be sued. If they never checked for your ID, then they could be sued and lose their license to sell beer.

Post: #9

(08-25-2011 06:05 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  I feel like shitting in the streets as a protest.

I got a ticket for urinating in public in Chinatown, and that was only $90.

We gotta get you up to the North Shore. Whole different breed of cop. I was at a park with a girl the other night smoking a spliff. Cop came up on a four wheeler and said "Where's your beers!"

You gotta remember that that big Asian economical conference thing is starting in Honolulu soon. That thing is bringing like 50,000 people here, and you're on an island. A surge in people like that makes a big impact. They are trying to clean up the city hard before that starts. You probably aren't familiar with "Hawaiian Time" just yet. If you've been through Waikiki you will see all that construction going on that they are trying to rush to get done in the next three weeks. They waited till the last minute to even start.

For a guy from outside the US here's important tips for dealing with the police in Hawaii:

1) A lot of them are Filipinos. That doesn't matter. DO NOT TRY TO BRIBE THEM. This isn't Manila.

2) Be as friendly as possible. You are in a place where respect is held in high regard. Before HPD initiate any ticketing or ask for your id they are going to ask how you are. Most likely they'll say "Howzit Sir." Tell them how happy you are and how much you love Hawaii and other feel-good bullshit. Another term you should learn is "talk story." It's what you gotta do with the locals. We like to talk. Even with the bouncer and your id copy, before he says anything try "howzit braddah" and initiate a little chat yourself. He'll probably see you're a nice guy, and respectful, and just wave you through. He'll also forget about any cover charge.

3) You are on US soil, but you aren't in America. If you get stopped for that jaywalking and say "This damn police state, I'm gonna shit on the street" you probably will not get a ticket. You will get your ass kicked, and pepper sprayed. Again, respect is big, and if you disrespect someone they're going to reciprocate. You can have a thousand witness and videos of yourself getting tasered, but try to convince a judge HPD abused you after their union rep tells them you stepped out of line.

All that being said, have you been through these private student housing things in Waikiki? It's older hotel they converted to dorms. My friend and I went and picked up some girls from one called The Ohia on Kuhio. There was so much foreign talent running around that place. The girls we went to get were from California, but in front of the place where everyone was smoking was like the United Nations of girls in bikinis. I got a girls number from freaking Nukunonu, Tokelau. She was fucking gorgeous. There's only like 500 people that live there and if she's at an American school, she's gotta be the daughter of the guy who owns the damn island or it's princess or similar. She's all I've been able to think about since, even while I was banging the Californian. I need my Tokelau flag.

Aloha!

Post: #10

Amour Fou -

Come to California.

It gets even worse.

I got a jaywalking ticket when I was jogging!

gringoed -

"I break the law all the damn time but never get caught"

Famous last words.

The issue is the States are so broke right now, they are going after innocent people.

To agree with the original poster, yes America sucks.

Most Americans are just too "institutionalized" to know any better.

Post: #11

Has anyone tried to bribe an American cop before? I'm sure it would work where cops are dirty (PG County Maryland, for example).

Post: #12

(08-25-2011 10:08 AM)Samseau Wrote:  I hate the police state, it blows. Vote libertarian. Both Republicans and Democrats increase the state's power every time they are in office. The libertarians aren't too bright either but at least they'll cut back on some laws.

Libertarian = Republican. It's seductive until you start asking real-life hypotheticals.

You get jaywalking tickets in LA because it's a driving city. The driver is king there. None of this bullshit where pedestrians can cross whenever, and wherever, they fucking want. That's some East Coast-ass shit. If I'm in my car, I don't need to be looking out for pedestrians even when I'm not in a cross-walk or when I have a green.

I'm, quite frankly, shocked at how entitled and inconsiderate pedestrians are in East Coast cities. I see drivers having to wait for everyone to cross, only to have to wait more, because some assholes decided to go after the light changed.
In LA, I would stomp on the gas at jaywalkers.

Post: #13

Tuth -

"You get jaywalking tickets in LA because it's a driving city."

I hear you, but last time I checked drivers got pulled over for no reason too.

Post: #14

Bribing cops...well ,I hear New Orleans has a low down force....banged up a friend of my brothers for I don't know what...beat him too.
Me and a friend got stopped in the pitch black down a Louisiana highway around 2002.
I was a bit anxious there for a while...the big light shining from the back...and the inevitible:

"Driver..please step out of the ve HICLE"

Felt like I was in a bad tv movie with Brian Dennehy.
Luckily,all went fine.

Post: #15

(08-25-2011 04:38 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(08-25-2011 10:08 AM)Samseau Wrote:  I hate the police state, it blows. Vote libertarian. Both Republicans and Democrats increase the state's power every time they are in office. The libertarians aren't too bright either but at least they'll cut back on some laws.

Libertarian = Republican. It's seductive until you start asking real-life hypotheticals.

I know you can't get over the fact that cops don't give a shit about jay-walkers in the NE, but come on... they should let people walk across the streets and assume liability if they are hit while jay-walking. This is a no-brainer.


And libertarianism isn't seductive at all; to be quite frank I think their views are childish. But they are leagues above the Republicans. They are also the only party that's never had any power. Given the shitty, dismal track records of the other two major parties, what's to lose with libertarians? Things in this country are going south no matter who is elected, might as well as give a last-ditch effort at a crazy guy like Ron Paul before shit totally goes down.

Post: #16

When when making your own decision to walk (or jog) across the street, when there are no cars in sight is illegal, our Country has a problem.

Post: #17

(08-25-2011 03:45 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(08-25-2011 06:05 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  I feel like shitting in the streets as a protest.

I got a ticket for urinating in public in Chinatown, and that was only $90.

We gotta get you up to the North Shore. Whole different breed of cop. I was at a park with a girl the other night smoking a spliff. Cop came up on a four wheeler and said "Where's your beers!"

You gotta remember that that big Asian economical conference thing is starting in Honolulu soon. That thing is bringing like 50,000 people here, and you're on an island. A surge in people like that makes a big impact. They are trying to clean up the city hard before that starts. You probably aren't familiar with "Hawaiian Time" just yet. If you've been through Waikiki you will see all that construction going on that they are trying to rush to get done in the next three weeks. They waited till the last minute to even start.

For a guy from outside the US here's important tips for dealing with the police in Hawaii:

1) A lot of them are Filipinos. That doesn't matter. DO NOT TRY TO BRIBE THEM. This isn't Manila.

2) Be as friendly as possible. You are in a place where respect is held in high regard. Before HPD initiate any ticketing or ask for your id they are going to ask how you are. Most likely they'll say "Howzit Sir." Tell them how happy you are and how much you love Hawaii and other feel-good bullshit. Another term you should learn is "talk story." It's what you gotta do with the locals. We like to talk. Even with the bouncer and your id copy, before he says anything try "howzit braddah" and initiate a little chat yourself. He'll probably see you're a nice guy, and respectful, and just wave you through. He'll also forget about any cover charge.

3) You are on US soil, but you aren't in America. If you get stopped for that jaywalking and say "This damn police state, I'm gonna shit on the street" you probably will not get a ticket. You will get your ass kicked, and pepper sprayed. Again, respect is big, and if you disrespect someone they're going to reciprocate. You can have a thousand witness and videos of yourself getting tasered, but try to convince a judge HPD abused you after their union rep tells them you stepped out of line.

All that being said, have you been through these private student housing things in Waikiki? It's older hotel they converted to dorms. My friend and I went and picked up some girls from one called The Ohia on Kuhio. There was so much foreign talent running around that place. The girls we went to get were from California, but in front of the place where everyone was smoking was like the United Nations of girls in bikinis. I got a girls number from freaking Nukunonu, Tokelau. She was fucking gorgeous. There's only like 500 people that live there and if she's at an American school, she's gotta be the daughter of the guy who owns the damn island or it's princess or similar. She's all I've been able to think about since, even while I was banging the Californian. I need my Tokelau flag.

Aloha!

Aloha Kona!

Please don't get me wrong. I am in no way being disrespectful to police or civilian alike, much to the contrary. I am very talkative and friendly, even to bouncers (I've never seen bouncers as big as the ones on the club yesterday... I'm positive they are sumo wrestlers). The thing is, since I stepped on US soil, I started having a feeling I never had before... I feel that I am being watched. That I am always seen as being potentialy dangerous. There is this invisible force around that makes the air heavier... even in a cheerful place as where I am... there is always this sense of hostility. I was walking by Waikiki beach today, doing some basic shopping as I oddly enough found some cheaper things there compared to where I am staying (I am sharing an apt. in Ala Moana, by the way... loving the neighbourhood) when I see two policemen handcuffing a guy, as he very politely asked them to let him go... an odd sight at such a place. I felt sad for the guy, even though I didn't know what he did (he seemed native, if that matters).

I don't have the need to bribe police officers, and I don't have anything to hide. I just intend to spend some quality time on this beautiful place enjoying the simple things in life (ie sipping a beer (I liked Corrs Light, never had it before) while going to the venue with people I just met from the nearby hostel). But even such simple things seem to threaten some invisible and all-pervasive 'state law' held by grumpy burocrats that haven't had sex in ages.

Summing up, I can't help but agree with G Manifesto when he says "When making your own decision to walk (or jog) across the street, when there are no cars in sight is illegal, our Country has a problem."

Post: #18

(08-25-2011 09:10 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  I've never seen bouncers as big as the ones on the club yesterday... I'm positive they are sumo wrestlers

Those are Samoans!

You are going to need id to get into bars. That's how it is. Take your passport and some type of immigration form for your student visa and get a Hawaii state ID. There's places you are going to want to go that you need that for. Hanauma Bay for example, you gotta have a local id or they charge you money to get in.

The state id office is in the old post office building at Beretania and Kawaihao St. across from the mission houses museum. It's maybe 3 buildings toward Diamond Head from the Kamehameha statue.

It's really important that you sign up online for the id before you go to the office. If you have all the stuff ready and the receipt off the internet the whole process takes maybe 20 minutes, where as without signing up on the internet you wait in a line for 4 or more hours.

Aloha!

Post: #19

(08-26-2011 12:18 AM)Kona Wrote:  

(08-25-2011 09:10 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  I've never seen bouncers as big as the ones on the club yesterday... I'm positive they are sumo wrestlers

Those are Samoans!

You are going to need id to get into bars. That's how it is. Take your passport and some type of immigration form for your student visa and get a Hawaii state ID. There's places you are going to want to go that you need that for. Hanauma Bay for example, you gotta have a local id or they charge you money to get in.

The state id office is in the old post office building at Beretania and Kawaihao St. across from the mission houses museum. It's maybe 3 buildings toward Diamond Head from the Kamehameha statue.

It's really important that you sign up online for the id before you go to the office. If you have all the stuff ready and the receipt off the internet the whole process takes maybe 20 minutes, where as without signing up on the internet you wait in a line for 4 or more hours.

Aloha!

Thanks for the tip, Kona!

I've been very busy settling in, sorting out burocratic stuff at university, getting to know the place, looking for adaptors and other necessary stuff. Soon I'll be getting to the Hawaii state id, its on the list. I'll be rereading what you wrote at the Hawaii thread and be looking for night venues soon enough. I'm really curious about the downtown spots... I have the impression they seem to attract more locals. It was great to be surrounded by the japanese (they come in droves!) and making some international friends (besides a brazilian budy that is also attending uni, and staying @ Waikiki), but I really feel like hitting it with a more local crowd.

I'm still running a bit slow, but thanks for your contributions so far.

Mahalo

Post: #20

(08-26-2011 12:52 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  Mahalo

Aloha brah, I like that you're happy.

Let's get the Hawaii thread back so as not to ruin this one.

To get it back on track: If any cops are reading this, LEAVE AMOUR FOU ALONE!

Aloha!

Post: #21

Amour Fou, I'm no expert like Kona, but I lived in Hawaii for a little while and can tell you that it is not emblematic of the mainland U.S.
If you want to see police state, come to the mainland. In Hawaii, if you don't do stupid things, like shit in the street, the police will typically leave you alone (there are exceptions to any rule in any place). I was never harassed by the authorities in Hawaii. Most importantly, and I can't emphasize this enough, always be cool about everything. Just relax, don't get upset, don't get agitated and keep your cool. Remember, it's not the mainland U.S. People there are chill and happy. Go with the flow. There is a lot of diversity so don't feel like you are always being watched.
But, you are absolutely right about jaywalking. I'd never heard of anyone ever getting a ticket or even being harassed over this in the U.S. until I moved to Hawaii. Crazy!

Post: #22

The Police are the biggest haters in the world only to be outclassed by the Marine patrol.

But, Amour..If you get arrested in HI you have to skip bond and wait a few weeks..After some time passes you will get a visit from a bleach blond with the biggest tits you have ever seen. When she shows up tell her that you only smoke her brand of cigs and want a 1 on 1 female perspective about your situation.
Get her cell and tell her you want to talk after you repost bond.

Post: #23

Heh, this is so typical for new immigrants, I see it every day

You seem to care about a lot of things which aren't very relevant to you. Relax. Yes, it is illegal to plant a garden in any public street in Chico, CA. Dumb? Indeed. But unless this is something you dreamed to do, why would you even bother?

We have a lot of dumb laws here in US which nobody enforces. They're usually put down because there was some local problem, and lawmakers basically had a knee-jerk reaction on it. However the common sense is usually prevailing, and cops have other things to do than trying to arrest you for planting a garden in Chico park. It is not like Russia, where the police is always trying to extract a bribe from you for violating some law, not sure if Brazil is the same.

(08-25-2011 06:05 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  -I can get a 130$ fine for "jay walking", something I never heard before. There are police people dressed as civilians out there to fine me.

Have you actually got one? I've been jaywalking pretty much all the time, and so far never got any fines.

At the same time, in six years here in US I've got two traffic tickets for speeding. Got both of them dismissed in the court. Could you do that in Brazil?

Quote:-The university I'm currently enrolled at needs to send a "report" every two weeks on me to the US government. I constantly need to update my local residence adress, so they know where I am and what I'm up to.

This is relatively recent measures to prevent the immigration fraud. There was a significant number of "students" who came to the US to work illegally; some 9/11 participants came on student visas as well. So the gov't is now tracking the enrolled students.

A requirement to keep your residence address up-to-date with USCIS apples to ALL non-US citizens, including the Green Card holders, who stays in US more than 30 (or so) days. I've never heard of someone who'd got into trouble by NOT doing so, but to me it is not a big deal, so many companies around have your address anyway. Be happy that you can change the address online, in Russia you'd have to go to the police station and stay in line for several hours just to do that.

Quote:-I can't do one of my favourite pre-party rituals, ie walking my way to the venue sipping my warm-up beer. I'm "not allowed" to drink "in public places".

People drinking on the street was one of the things which annoyed me in Russia. I can understand it when you're going home from work (even though I'd still prefer having a cold one at home), but drinking while going to the venue???

Note that you still can drink on a street, as long as it is not obvious you're consuming alcohol. The police generally cannot sip from your bottle (it is considered search and requires the warrant) unless there is a probable cause. I have a friend who goes out with a Coke bottle and he pours some Captain Morgan into. Again, to me this is just silly - if you're going to a drinking place, why predrink? - but then maybe the money are the issue or so.

Also in some cities, like New Orleans, you can drink on a street, as long as you're not drinking from a glass bottle.

Quote:-Although I'm 24 and -look- 24 or older, I still need to show ID to prove I'm over 21... to buy a freaking beer I can't drink on the street.

There are stiff penalties for the businesses for selling alcohol to person who aren't 21 yet - here in CA the business will have their liquor license suspended for the second violation.

Quote:-I just attempted my first night out to party/practice my game in foreign lands and the bouncers didn't let me in a half empty club because I only had a colored xerox copy of my passaport, as I am cautious about the most important document I can carry abroad and don't feel like going out partying and drinking with it on my pocket.

A lot of teenagers have, and use the fake ID to get into drinking places. It is incredibly easy to photoshop the DOB on your passport and nobody would see any difference. And, as I said, the penalties are tough, so the staff generally checks the IDs carefully, and limits the IDs they accept. However there are different places with different rules; some do not check IDs at all, and rely on looks, and some even sell alcohol to drinkers under 21. The more high profile the place is, the less likely it to happen though.

At the same time, this rule actually works for you, since you can reasonably believe the person you're making out with in a bar is at least 21 if she's drinking. This is a concern in Russia, a chick you meet in a club could easily be 15, making you subject to child molestation laws.

Quote:Why do you guys take this crap?

In Russia we say "Do not bring your rules into someone's monastery" - the closest analogue would probably be "when in Rome do as Romans". So be patient, and learn things. A lot of restrictions which look ridiculous to new immigrants will make sense to you after a year or two when you learn the culture. Most things here are there for a reason, so instead of calling it "crap" try to understand why things are like that.

Post: #24

(08-25-2011 04:38 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  Libertarian = Republican. It's seductive until you start asking real-life hypotheticals.

Unfortunately most of Libertarians are plain too dumb to understand that.

Quote:I'm, quite frankly, shocked at how entitled and inconsiderate pedestrians are in East Coast cities. I see drivers having to wait for everyone to cross, only to have to wait more, because some assholes decided to go after the light changed.

In Thailand they just drive over them. Happens every week.

Post: #25

(08-26-2011 10:11 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-25-2011 06:05 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  -I can get a 130$ fine for "jay walking", something I never heard before. There are police people dressed as civilians out there to fine me.

Have you actually got one? I've been jaywalking pretty much all the time, and so far never got any fines.

I heard of a student at university that got two tickets on the SAME DAY for jaywalking. I hear they say that Honolulu is more strict on jay walking then other cities.

Quote:At the same time, in six years here in US I've got two traffic tickets for speeding. Got both of them dismissed in the court. Could you do that in Brazil?

I doubt anyone in Brazil would bother to go to court for speeding tickets. It would take far too long for anything to be sorted out.

The thing is, by the time I wrote the first post, I was angry, as I had just been kicked out of the club. What I'm experiencing here probably has to do with 'culture shock', as my initial reaction was to find these laws absurd, as they would probably end life as I know if applied back home. (Try picturing carnival without alcohol...)

The anger has gone, and I'll be going out tonight to redeem myself. As culture-sensitive as I might think I am, there are things that still slip by... In this case, the intricacies of local law.

Still... I'm gonna miss walking my way to the venue with a beer in my hands...