Post: #26

Thanks for all your help and support brothers.

Now that I have a full night sleep I'm able to think a bit more clearly.

Lets go over some points I need to clear up.

1. I'm in no way throwing this good LTR away on a trivial matter. If you guys read my various posts, I'm the most ardent supporter of LTR and virgins on here. I've been fine-tuning my game to this end for the last 2 years cause I got sick of playing the field.

This is not a light decision to make because out of all the girls Ive met, I do care for and really appreciate my LTR. I think at the core she is a very good person, but she happens to be in fucking liberal land Paris. The fact that she managed to *only* be tainted by environmentalism is admirable, and thats why we were able to have 2 fulfilling years together.

2. So why I'm doing this? I think Leonard is right. I fail a shit test. I should never let this escalate this far.

In a way my hand is being forced because she is walking away. (she said she would rather go back to her place, I said yeah me too. We walk out of the restaurant going our separate way. No contact since then)

I'll explain: we have had various bouts of disagreements over the years. But always, either I make a joke out of it and we both forgot it ever happened; or she is the first one to apologize.

This time none of the above happened. I didnt defuse the situation, and she decides to walk away instead of reconciling. Why did this change of behavior happened? I dont know why, things have been going very well lately as I said in my OP. We were planning our summer vacation together.

Regardless of the reason, the fact that she is walking away for me is an ultimatum. Now what options am I left with?

-Be the first one to apologize is out of the question. I didnt come all this way to sabotage all I've learned. Plus it fixes NOTHING.

-Radio silence and wait for her to response. This is probably the best course of action, but as a man I dont want to leave the fate of my relationship in the girl's hand. Who knows what fucked up stuff she would come up with during the ghost period? What if she doest come back? Being on the passive defensive just doesnt sit right with me.

-Flip the script dread game: tonight or tomorrow, take all her stuff and drop it off at her place, no explanation whatsoever. Let her hamster run wild. Then a few days later call her up as if none of this ever happened "hey bae you wanna go out". Roissy style. Very high risk but it plays on her emotional roller coaster and re-frame this whole thing.

Those are pretty much the only options I see viable. There's no need to talk to her or explain or trying to understand anything. Guys been trying to do this since time immemorial and it never works, bringing reason and logic into the realm of female's emotional maelstorm. There's nothing to understand behind her fucked up believe so theres no hope for any rationale to come from it whatsoever.

It would hurt if this comes to pass but I've been here before. Bitches come and go and I'll have to trust on my resolve and the support on this forum to carry on.

That and I also knew this LTR would have to end eventually. Not because of her, but because we' re both young. I'm 26 (username) and she is 21, and no one in their right mind would think its realistic to drag this out 5+ years until we're both ready to get married.

It's a chapter in my life and I always intended to make it count, with the most pleasant girl I was able to find. It lasted for 2 beautiful years and just yesterday we were still thinking it would last at least 1 more. But thats how life is, you deal with it.

Thanks again gents. As ever your 2 cents are appreciated.

Post: #27

You could attempt humour to defuse the situation without either party having to admit they're wrong.

Send her a pic with your dick in a hot-dog bun, captioned "Honestly, tell me you're not just a bit tempted."

Post: #28

At this point I would tend to agree with Leonard D Neubache, Travesty and others, in that I don't see her actions (silly as they are) as a clear-cut deal breaker considering her young age and other factors, like being a virgin before meeting you.

That being said, you seem to have a few other reasons for calling it quits. In this case, I do have a couple of questions which could help to clarify the context:

(03-12-2017 08:43 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  -she walked away. This is the last drop for me. A girl is LTR material until she walks away. We had arguments like every healthy couple, but every time she always tried to talk it out with me and wanted to come to my place afterward. This time, however, she wanted to go back to her place. I wont keep it from her.

Can you expand on this? Did she tell you "We should have a break" or "We should break up", or did she just go back to her own place rather than staying with you for the night? What has happened since then?

(03-12-2017 10:32 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I'm not in the market for a wife though.
[...]
Also converted her to be an aspiring stay at home mom.

- I'm wondering why you say you converted her to be an aspiring housewife if you're not looking for one?
- If you met someone else, would you want a different type/level of relationship to what you have now? To what extent do you feel you could be 'missing out' on someone better and/or having more variety by settling now?
- What other factors are pushing you to eject?

Post: #29

You both have different values/beliefs. This will never work, don´t waste your time.

Post: #30

@Leonard: funny, humor-defuse is how I gamed her since the very first day. I wonder if it would come full circle and works now?

(03-13-2017 04:05 AM)Dream Medicine Wrote:  At this point I would tend to agree with Leonard D Neubache, Travesty and others, in that I don't see her actions (silly as they are) as a clear-cut deal breaker considering her young age and other factors, like being a virgin before meeting you.

That being said, you seem to have a few other reasons for calling it quits. In this case, I do have a couple of questions which could help to clarify the context:

(03-12-2017 08:43 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  -she walked away. This is the last drop for me. A girl is LTR material until she walks away. We had arguments like every healthy couple, but every time she always tried to talk it out with me and wanted to come to my place afterward. This time, however, she wanted to go back to her place. I wont keep it from her.

Can you expand on this? Did she tell you "We should have a break" or "We should break up", or did she just go back to her own place rather than staying with you for the night? What has happened since then?

(03-12-2017 10:32 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I'm not in the market for a wife though.
[...]
Also converted her to be an aspiring stay at home mom.

I'm wondering why you say you converted her to be an aspiring housewife when you're not looking for one? To what extent does she want marriage/kids? If you met someone else, would you want a different type/level of relationship to what you have now?

Also:

- Is this your longest LTR?
- How many girls have you banged? Do you feel you could be 'missing out' by settling with one woman?
- What other factors are pushing you to eject? Why do you think this LTR is destined to end aside from your respective ages?

@Medicine: for the walking away part, I explained above. She said she would rather go back to her place, I said yeah me too. We walk out of the restaurant going our separate way. No contact since then.

About the stay at home mom part:

I have always promote LTR on this forum because you learn a lot from it. And which of us doesn't enjoy feminine caring women? It is just a natural extension of this game and belief that when I'm with her I try to guide her as much toward being a stay at home mom as possible. I wasn't conciously thinking it as training her to be the mother of my children. I guess I was doing humanity a service (or the guy who would eventually marry her)

Been in a couple of relationship, this one is the longest. I honestly dont feel I'm missing out. I've been in the field for long enough to know what its like, and honestly racking up notch count loses a lot of glamour once you know how empty it could be, gaming and talking to "dead inside" chick. I'm an avid salsa dancer and having been in this scene I've learned to both enjoy and detest the game.

Deep inside I think most guys (myself included) just want a feminine, pleasant and cute girl to bond with, leaving your energy free to do other more important things. I found what I needed in this girl and as said, I'm very happy with it. She represents the best compromise you could find in Paris (if you can find a girl who is young, virgin, hot, feminine, doesnt drink doesnt smoke, without ANY of the ingrained liberal agenda whatsoever, you are either lying or please write a datasheet)

I would do a LTR like this again if I could. In fact, if this is over I'll be plowing the field having fun until I can find and screen another virgin for LTR again, then LTR her up.

Nothing is really pushing me to eject other than the fact that as of now she is unwilling to make the first move to reconcile. I know very well that once the girl loses the desire to be with you, it is pretty much done. Making the first move would put me squarely into cuck beta land.

I have a feeling she wont come back. Usually she could never go to sleep without me calling her to say good night, even when we were arguing. This time it's been silence.

If she comes back to me, I'll reframe it and think about getting back. If not it's over, I'll take this and move on. No bad blood and no drama.

Post: #31

(03-13-2017 04:32 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Been in a couple of relationship, this one is the longest. I honestly dont feel I'm missing out. I've been in the field for long enough to know what its like, and honestly racking up notch count loses a lot of glamour once you know how empty it could be, gaming and talking to "dead inside" chick. I'm an avid salsa dancer and having been in this scene I've learned to both enjoy and detest the game.

Deep inside I think most guys (myself included) just want a feminine, pleasant and cute girl to bond with, leaving your energy free to do other more important things. I found what I needed in this girl and as said, I'm very happy with it. She represents the best compromise you could find in Paris (if you can find a girl who is young, virgin, hot, feminine, doesnt drink doesnt smoke, without ANY of the ingrained liberal agenda whatsoever, you are either lying or please write a datasheet)

I would do a LTR like this again if I could. In fact, if this is over I'll be plowing the field having fun until I can find and screen another virgin for LTR again, then LTR her up.

Remember seeing one of your posts in another thread and reading about your LTR. Your first paragraph describes my current attitude perfectly, I know what you mean.

What I don't get is this. You said you're not looking for a wife, so you see no point dragging this out for 5+ years. Man, why the hell would you put yourself through all this shit over and over again if your ultimate goal isn't wife and kids? Or is it, just not right now? I'm curious.

If it isn't, I would spin multiple mini-LTRs, or find a girl to pull threesomes with. That way you get the best of both worlds, variety and emotional intimacy.

Also you need to drop some datasheets on your methods. If I'm ever in Paris you're getting as many free drinks from me as you want, finding a unicorn like that in Paris of all fucking places is something to be seriously applauded. I'm wary of french women in general, one of my oldest friends had a french gf for a while, that pussy must've been insane because she was a fucking nutcase.

(03-13-2017 04:32 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  If she comes back to me, I'll reframe it and think about getting back.

The most reasonable suggestion in your situation imho. I admire your attitude, you really have your shit together man.

Post: #32

^+1 on that. 2 years is a long time. If you can still keep perspective after that long then you've got some serious monk-level emotional control going on.



(but I still say you should send her a picture of your dick in a hot dog bun)

Post: #33

OP, serious respect for your frame. I believe RVF is a champion of alpha-widowing - next this chick now. It'll show that behavior like that is not tolerable. Have to be willing to walk away at any time.

Post: #34

Thanks for the kind word gents. @Leonard, I think I might even print it out and send it to her in a perfumed envelope

Joking aside, I think this LTR with her helped me mature a lot. Its the reason I have always encouraged people to try to set up one solid LTR for the learning experience.

A lot of the wisdom posters on here whose posts always soak of wisdom, are married gents (you too Leonard), and I think there's a good reason for that.

Its very easy to keep the player lifestyle and next every single bitch because then you dont have to deal with your own demons and emotional issues.
@crottstep, also to answer your question, even though I dont intend on marrying this chick, I definitely plan to marry one day and have scions to carry on my legacy. Lizard of Oz's thread about all men should eventually marry and have kids speak to my soul.

Think of every (solid) LTR as training ground for your marriage and fatherhood.

You might think you have a lot of time (I'm 26), but I think its necessary. It takes a lot of work, skills and luck to screen a girl who is material for LTR. Then it takes a lot of work to be in and maintain a LTR with a good girl. If 3 is the lucky number, lets say I need to go through 3 solid, fulfilling LTR to become ready to be a father and husband, patriarch of the family. Then that means I need around 6-8 years of LTR time to mature and prepare.

Each and every girl you are in a LTR with bring out different parts in you, just as each country you live in bring out a different "you". Parts that you dont even know existed.

During our 2 years together, I learn a lot about boundaries setting, what I can / cant tolerate, being emotionally present and spontaneous, what are truly valuable in a girl vs the paper qualities etc.

Say, for example, we always talk about making girls invest in you. One of my exes used to buy me all expensive stuff. This girl however, spent 3 months hand-knit me a scarf. The first one she ever did. It teaches you that not all gifts are equal.

One thing she did teach me, is to always keep only the good memories. There are no bad memories, just experience and wisdom. I used to be "forgive but never forget" type of guy, but as I learn this I live much more happily.

Most important of all, I learn about being patient and being fair. Because one day when you have kid, thats exactly how you have to be. If you cant handle your 21 years old girlfriend throwing a tantrum, what makes you think you can handle your 4 or 14 years old child throwing one? But I guess I failed at that.

I still can not stand being disrespected though, which is what she did last night. But, as Leonard said, this is as much my fault as hers. Still much to learn.

Everyone of my LTR has been better than the last, so that's something to be grateful for, and to look forward to.

Will keep you guys updated,

Post: #35

(03-13-2017 03:53 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  -Radio silence and wait for her to response. This is probably the best course of action, but as a man I dont want to leave the fate of my relationship in the girl's hand. Who knows what fucked up stuff she would come up with during the ghost period? What if she doest come back? Being on the passive defensive just doesnt sit right with me.

I think this is the best option, OP.

For a 2 year LTR, you've got a lot of wisdom on how to handle this. You're not letting your history with this girl, and/or your feelings to effect your judgment. A lot of guys would put up this this bullshit and come crawling back to her.

IMO, the ball is her court. If she apologizes (especially for the part on wishing your death) then great. If not, life goes on. Plenty of females out there.

Post: #36

My reading of such situations is that there usually is a battle of attrition going on. Inch by inch, such reckless and disrespectful proclamations is how women gradually begin to encroach on your turf, and before one knows it they are walking all over you.

Over time, repeatedly failing to react in the appropriate manner i.e. nipping it in the bud, is how dudes find themselves totally knocked out and out of the game. And by then you're in way over your head and there's little one can do to salvage the situation.
I have to echo what some dudes have said. And perhaps going forward guys in LTRs need to draw a clear line between what they will tolerate and what they will not.
Such utterances are certainly hitting way below the belt , but the main point here is that a woman needs to see a firm side; an area one will not compromise on, so that she may think twice before she crosses that line again.

Inevitably its up to you on how to proceed with the game. But bear in mind that how you react to this will definitely set the tone for your interactions with her going forward.

Post: #37

Is it me, or her change of behavior is very abrupt?

(03-12-2017 08:43 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  It devolved fast and she started attacking me, about why I dont do my part to save the environment, like using an electric car or shit. "You are so selfish, when you eat meat you dont think about how these animals are mis-treated" Bitch if I want me some steak I could care less how a bull die.

Here, in Romania, there is a quite famous joke:

Him: darling, why are you a vegetarian?
Her: because I don't want to kill the animals
Him: then why do you eat their food?

I would have told her the same thing.

Post: #38

Dude, you might love her but you just have different values and beliefs. Opposites attract but like-minded people stay together... For a while.

There are other women out there, and while she may be great, you ain't the one. Better to figure this out before you get married to her or have kids. She really did you a favor and she was just looking for something to get shitty over because she sensed a rift, so to speak.

Post: #39

Updating this thread like:


Dalaran, from what I've read of your posts over the last year I hope things work out with your LTR.

But I also admire your Stoic approach to this situation.

If you and her work through this situation, you win and get a stronger relationship; frame it as something that further bonded you.

If you go your separate ways, you still had a great LTR where you learned, and applied, a lot of invaluable lessons. You matured as a man, and still win.

Kudos.



We would all do well to enter into LTRs with this exact mindset. In a way, we have already lost the girls we LTR; as such, we should strive to make the most of our time with them.

Post: #40

OP, was she on the rag? Is she on hormonal birth control? Maybe her hormones were out of wack momentarily.

Post: #41

This is a really great read on frame and how to handle immature women.

Dalaran you've come a very long way since we messaged eachother initially.

You've also handle this woman (before the incident) with grace and like a man should.

Hell you even were about to dabble in some hanky panky with another beautiful women as well you sly devil !


Dudes saying "bro like totally next her" are missing out on a few important things about women and relationships.


She's got great qualities sure, but young women tend to have emotional outbursts.

Some women want to fight with their man to "feel" things again, to get that emotional rush and get their pussy wet.

Women have a 6th sense when they feel something is up with their man, and will pull ridiculous shit to come back into the fold.

The older most people get, the more they tend to lean towards conservative ideals.


RESPECT is the biggest thing here, you should've shut that shit down as soon as it started.

For now, the best thing I think for you is to go silent - and yes she WILL reach out to you.

Stay aloof, and I guarantee she'll come crawling back to you on YOUR terms.


If she doesn't or she scoffs then you know the dogma poisoned her mind enough.

I'm just curious to know, you've been together 2 years, took her virginity, but have no plans of marriage or kids - despite her quality traits ?

Post: #42

This scenario reminds me of this movie



Basically neither one really wanted to break up with the other but things kept escalating as they each tried to manipulate the other into backing down and before long they ended up in place they couldn't get back from

Im with kaotic...seems like a relatively minor reason to discard a "good one". The guys screaming "next!" like they have Tourrete syndrome are likely the least experienced with women in general and LTRs especially. There's a time and place for "nexting" chicks of course but this doesn't seem like it

Im with Leonard...diffuse the situation with humor and allow yourself and her to ease back from the ledge. I'd bet she wants to

Kudos to you for hold frame though and be willing to walk. I think your relationship will be stronger for it

Post: #43

On one hand, people have arguments. It's part of a LTR that it'll happen eventually. There will be raised voices, whatever. You make up, have a rough fuck, and move on. It may not even be about the cows, maybe she's just mad because it's been two years and she doesn't have a ring or maybe she secretly doesn't want the cock carousel to stop turning.

I think it's been said, though, the other hand, the two issues I see:

- Her whole outlook is not suitable. Suppose it works out, you're going to have fights over stupid nonsense like whether or not to vaccinate your kids. It's a dead-end as LTRs go.

- She feels so strongly about this issue that she resorts to "I hope you die screaming". Not an acceptable level of disrespect. What if the two of you had an argument about some social topic and you resorted to something like "I hope you get raped"? Would you ever recover from treating her that way in her eyes? Of course not.

You're justified in nexting her, but it's hardly the worst case. It's your life.

Post: #44

(03-14-2017 12:13 PM)Jetset Wrote:  On one hand, people have arguments. It's part of a LTR that it'll happen eventually. There will be raised voices, whatever. You make up, have a rough fuck, and move on. It may not even be about the cows, maybe she's just mad because it's been two years and she doesn't have a ring or maybe she secretly doesn't want the cock carousel to stop turning.

I think it's been said, though, the other hand, the two issues I see:

- Her whole outlook is not suitable. Suppose it works out, you're going to have fights over stupid nonsense like whether or not to vaccinate your kids. It's a dead-end as LTRs go.

- She feels so strongly about this issue that she resorts to "I hope you die screaming". Not an acceptable level of disrespect. What if the two of you had an argument about some social topic and you resorted to something like "I hope you get raped"? Would you ever recover from treating her that way in her eyes? Of course not.

You're justified in nexting her, but it's hardly the worst case. It's your life.

Just because she feels this way now doesn't mean she will forever. LTRs are by definition "long game". Long game is like a slow roll down the bowling alley. It's the man's game to gently guide the ball (girl ) away from going into the gutter

Post: #45

If she can own up to her mistake, after a calm discussion with you about it, then I would potentially reconsider. If she comes to you out of the blue apologizing, even better.

The only reason I would next her is because she said she "wished you would die."

European women are highly emotional, but that crosses the line. I would take "mother material" completely off the table now. "I wish you would die" is something a child would say, not a 21 yo woman. She's a grown woman, not a child. Out of all the 21 yo GF's I have had, as well as other women, none of them wished I would die. To say that to you so flippantly, in a meaningless argument about nothing, is revealing. Its like the biggest red flag you could ever have!

You are looking for a keeper. A keeper handles her emotions, at a minimum to the extent that she is not wishing death upon you in a trivial argument. I think you are right to walk away. A "Mother material" girl displays maturity and emotional control, under all circumstances.

Wait for her reaction, and how she handles it. A keeper will freely admit fault, and apologize. Either bringing it up on her own, or second best, admitting to it, to you, over a calm conversation about why you didnt like that. If she refuses to admit any fault, then tries to gaslight you into thinking you are wrong for feeling the way you do, you have a bubbling narcissist on your hands. Thats when you know you have to completely walk away for good.

Post: #46

(03-14-2017 01:46 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Just because she feels this way now doesn't mean she will forever. LTRs are by definition "long game". Long game is like a slow roll down the bowling alley. It's the man's game to gently guide the ball (girl ) away from going into the gutter

I get what you're saying, but I'd never rely on someone to change for the better. She's choosing to head for the gutter, here.

Doesn't mean "this is dead", just "dead-end": accept that it will be dead eventually unless she chooses to change. Knowing that, maybe it isn't worth your time to try to work out the rest of it.

"I want you to die", that actually might mean "this is dead", but OP presumably knows her better than we do. Even if she's having a nutty hormone day, I would not accept someone who is prone to fly into that kind of rage over nonsense.

Post: #47

Given the available details I don't view the OPs inciting incident as "material" Young chicks are going to be prone overreact and their convictions are fluid. OP even admitted that in hindsight he did as well.

I personally tend to handle my girl overreacting to something that in the big picture is trivial with a pause, a raised eyebrow and lighthearted "Are you done?"

Post: #48

(03-13-2017 09:09 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  

(03-13-2017 03:53 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  -Radio silence and wait for her to response. This is probably the best course of action, but as a man I dont want to leave the fate of my relationship in the girl's hand. Who knows what fucked up stuff she would come up with during the ghost period? What if she doest come back? Being on the passive defensive just doesnt sit right with me.

I think this is the best option, OP.

For a 2 year LTR, you've got a lot of wisdom on how to handle this. You're not letting your history with this girl, and/or your feelings to effect your judgment. A lot of guys would put up this this bullshit and come crawling back to her.

IMO, the ball is her court. If she apologizes (especially for the part on wishing your death) then great. If not, life goes on. Plenty of females out there.

+1 for this option

Dropping shit off is just teenage tantrum reaction.....

Wait for her to apologise first.

After a week of not hearing, assume its over and game other women.

I predict she will cave in and crawl back.

Post: #49

This is a great thread. A lot of mentalities young guys should adopt. You remained composed, held your ground, and self respect which should be the goal of every interaction.

Whether or not you failed a shit test is in the past.

I agree with Kaotic, stay radio silent. If there is one thing about a girl in a LTR with the one she lost her virginity to, the pull is extremely sticky. You are imprinted on her life story. She won't throw it away for some vegan bullshit. And the silence will let her know you respect yourself.

BUT, speaking from personal experience, 21 is right around the age that my 4 year LTR started getting real fucking uppity. Saw it with many other friends as well. There is something about the "coming of age as a women" around this time in their life that pushes them to do rash shit.

So a decision looms regardless of this outcome.

Either way, good on you man, sounds like you've grown a ton from this.

Post: #50

When my wife gets irrationally pissed at me and I've had enough I find it's useful to take one thing she said (I can't remember if she's told me to go die before, but it would be a good example), clarify that she's crossed a line in the negotiation, put a verdict on the situation that led to the argument, and ignore her until she calms down.

Girls need a mountain of a man not just to rely on for security, but to see their silly outbursts dashed upon the rocks.