Post: #126

(03-05-2017 12:03 AM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  I think it will end up like the big lebowski where you get a small government check and have a simple pleasure like bowling and that's it.

It cracks me up pro-automation people act like cab drivers are a bunch of genius artists waiting to be unleashed.

On the same note, I was listening to an idiot on the radio the other day and he said those who lost their jobs in coal mining, manufacturing, truck driving, cab drivers can all just get new jobs in STEM. This same host said back during the election it was mathematically impossible for Trump to win and Trump supports don't understand math.

Post: #127

(03-04-2017 11:29 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  - robots provide most of the labor so there is less and less need to work full time or at all; pursue new hobbies that become life’s purpose

That's the positive view on it, and what we would like to see happen, but how does that work economically for the people who don't own part of the robotic production? If the people who own the robots get all of the benefit of their production, and most people have no market to sell their labor, most people can't afford food, shelter and medicine, much less hobbies.

Post: #128

(03-05-2017 10:15 AM)Edmund Ironside Wrote:  

(03-04-2017 11:29 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  - robots provide most of the labor so there is less and less need to work full time or at all; pursue new hobbies that become life’s purpose

That's the positive view on it, and what we would like to see happen, but how does that work economically for the people who don't own part of the robotic production? If the people who own the robots get all of the benefit of their production, and most people have no market to sell their labor, most people can't afford food, shelter and medicine, much less hobbies.

Two possibilities I can see (we can probably come up with more if we brainstorm it):

1. Families or groups of friends pitch in to buy a robot (if a single person cant afford one). They share that robot's super-efficient labor for basic survival things (food cultivation, repairs to shelter). Now they don't have to trade nearly as much of their time for survival, or for money to buy survival-based goods.

2. If only a few people own the robot production, but their costs are much lower and they can produce a lot more, they are still going to want to sell their goods. Prices then get lowered. Like Ford producing model-Ts that most average Americans could own because of assembly lines.

Post: #129

(03-05-2017 10:54 AM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

(03-05-2017 10:15 AM)Edmund Ironside Wrote:  

(03-04-2017 11:29 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  - robots provide most of the labor so there is less and less need to work full time or at all; pursue new hobbies that become life’s purpose

That's the positive view on it, and what we would like to see happen, but how does that work economically for the people who don't own part of the robotic production? If the people who own the robots get all of the benefit of their production, and most people have no market to sell their labor, most people can't afford food, shelter and medicine, much less hobbies.

Two possibilities I can see (we can probably come up with more if we brainstorm it):

1. Families or groups of friends pitch in to buy a robot (if a single person cant afford one). They share that robot's super-efficient labor for basic survival things (food cultivation, repairs to shelter). Now they don't have to trade nearly as much of their time for survival, or for money to buy survival-based goods.

2. If only a few people own the robot production, but their costs are much lower and they can produce a lot more, they are still going to want to sell their goods. Prices then get lowered. Like Ford producing model-Ts that most average Americans could own because of assembly lines.

1) The way you need to picture this is not with Star Wars like androids where you have a robotic personal servant who can do everything for you. When we talk about robots and robotics, we are mainly talking about very specialized robots that do one thing or a small set of things. Factory robots are essentially just another phase of the industrial revolution - one that removes the majority of what humans used to do in moving things around and manipulating the less versatile machines. We are talking about roomba like robots for cleaning and lawn maintenance and street maintenance, etc. We are talking about self driving cars, and delivery trucks, and trains and boats. Automation also entails more and more complex software, that keeps taking away more and more of the white collar work. It's not a sudden thing where humanoid robots appear all at once, it's an ongoing process. It's already happening, it will keep happening. Its goal isn't to give you a manservant, its goal is to make you unnecessary.

2) This argument has the same problem as many that are made by old guard globalist Republicans these days ... "no tariffs because it will raise prices" ... "need H1Bs because free trade and competition" ... the problem is, lower prices don't do you any good if you don't have a job. Cheaper TVs and cars are cold comfort if you are a software developer with 10-20 years of experience who is working as a Wal-Mart greeter. (And by the way, you can be a really good developer and still be unemployed. If you think it can't work that way, it's because you haven't been there to see it. I would have found it hard to believe when I was in my early 20's.)

Post: #130

Maybe this is a ploy by the Wendy's franchises in the $15/hr cities to get the city councils to pay them to not automate.
Like how farmers get paid to not grow corn.