Post: #26

Its difficult Sam. To get elected, you need to have some cartel or the other backing you. Most Governors and Mayors were elected this way.

They are only able to make policies that attacks upstart groups or groups in severe disfavor within the cartel on pain of death. A Military Officer was given full powers to clean up Juarez, immediately he resumed he got a call from a cartel boss offering him $80,000 a week to take orders from the cartel boss. He claimed to have refused but not many people believe him.

Sometimes a bigger cartel wants to take over a plaza, thats when you have the Federales going toe to toe with the State Forces.

Example is when Chapo wanted to take over the plaza of Juarez.

So its all very fucked up. If an official makes a move against a cartel, he risks his life AND his family. Everything. Hell, even the Presidente had a pissed cartel boss wanting to track his movements.

Its fucked up mano.

Post: #27

Sounds like a horror show. God, I can't wait for that wall.

Post: #28

At moments like this I'm supremely glad that the US is between Mexico and Canada.

Post: #29

Here is what Mexico's immigration laws are....they have some of the strictest immigration laws in the hemisphere.

http://humanevents.com/2006/05/08/mexico...e-at-home/

Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how it handles the immigration issue. Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

At a time when the Supreme Court and many politicians seek to bring American law in line with foreign legal norms, it’s noteworthy that nobody has argued that the U.S. look at how Mexico deals with immigration and what it might teach us about how best to solve
our illegal immigration problem. Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:


in the country legally;

have the means to sustain themselves economically;

not destined to be burdens on society;

of economic and social benefit to society;

of good character and have no criminal records; and

contributors to the general well-being of the nation.

The law also ensures that:

immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;

foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;

foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics;

foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;

foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;

those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

Who could disagree with such a law? It makes perfect sense. The Mexican constitution strictly defines the rights of citizens — and the denial of many fundamental rights to non-citizens, illegal and illegal. Under the constitution, the Ley General de Población, or
General Law on Population, spells out specifically the country’s immigration policy.

It is an interesting law — and one that should cause us all to ask, Why is our great southern neighbor pushing us to water down our own immigration laws and policies, when its own immigration restrictions are the toughest on the continent? If a felony is a
crime punishable by more than one year in prison, then Mexican law makes it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

If the United States adopted such statutes, Mexico no doubt would denounce it as a manifestation of American racism and bigotry.

We looked at the immigration provisions of the Mexican constitution. [1] Now let’s look at Mexico’s main immigration law.

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

Foreigners are admitted into Mexico “according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress.” (Article 32)

Immigration officials must “ensure” that “immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents. (Article 34)

Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets “the equilibrium of the national demographics,” when foreigners are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when “they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy.” (Article 37)

The Secretary of Governance may “suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest.” (Article 38)

Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:

Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)

A National Population Registry keeps track of “every single individual who comprises the population of the country,” and verifies each individual’s identity. (Articles 85 and 86)

A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:

Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)

Foreigners who sign government documents “with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses” are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:

Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)

Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)

Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico — such as working with out a permit — can also be imprisoned.

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,

“A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally.” (Article 123)

Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)

Foreigners who “attempt against national sovereignty or security” will be deported. (Article 126)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:

A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)

Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)

All of the above runs contrary to what Mexican leaders are demanding of the United States. The stark contrast between Mexico’s immigration practices versus its American
immigration preachings is telling. It gives a clear picture of the Mexican government’s agenda: to have a one-way immigration relationship with the United States.

Post: #30

Damien, with due respect, Mexico ''demands'' NOTHING of the Los Estados Unidos. It is in no position to do such a thing.
The people who make demands are advocacy groups who have nothing to do with Mexico. Someone could say Mexico probably funds those groups, but I'd like to see irrefutable proof of this.

In any case, there are far more gringos living in mexico illegally than there are Mexicanos living in Los Estados Unidos illegally.

You sound very angry and I'd say you're justified in that anger. But you've been misinformed. Mexicanos are NOT flooding across your border. The mass of illegals are those who overstay their visas like Asians, Africans etc not those who ''flood'' across the border.

Post: #31

(02-15-2017 11:57 AM)El Padrone Wrote:  But you've been misinformed. Mexicanos are NOT flooding across your border. The mass of illegals are those who overstay their visas like Asians, Africans etc not those who ''flood'' across the border.

"Of all unauthorized immigrants living in the United States in 2009, [...] 62 percent were from Mexico."
https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/stat...e_2009.pdf

"Approximately 30-40 percent of illegal aliens are aliens who entered the U.S. legally, but overstayed their visas."
http://www.fairus.org/legislation/amnest...tionreform

If you have more accurate information, please share it. I just want to be better informed. Thanks.

Post: #32

(02-15-2017 11:57 AM)El Padrone Wrote:  Damien, with due respect, Mexico ''demands'' NOTHING of the Los Estados Unidos. It is in no position to do such a thing.
The people who make demands are advocacy groups who have nothing to do with Mexico. Someone could say Mexico probably funds those groups, but I'd like to see irrefutable proof of this.

In any case, there are far more gringos living in mexico illegally than there are Mexicanos living in Los Estados Unidos illegally.

You sound very angry and I'd say you're justified in that anger. But you've been misinformed. Mexicanos are NOT flooding across your border. The mass of illegals are those who overstay their visas like Asians, Africans etc not those who ''flood'' across the border.

Nah i'm not angry at Mexico, i'm just clarifying what the laws and rules are regarding immigration for people to see the difference in what the laws are in Mexico & USA, and how they're enforced. The people i'm angry at are the hypocritical Americans libtards who want different rules according to your "privilege status". I saw that post on the Anonymous Conservative blog and thought i'd share.

http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blo...ation-law/
It would be a great amygdala hijack of the left than for Trump to implement some seemingly oppressive, horrific immigration law, and then when liberals complain, show it is merely the same rules Americans would have faced in one of the foreign countries sending us its refugees/migrants/prison-populations.

If Trump implemented this law, liberals complained, and then Trump pointed out that it is exactly how the Mexican migrants voted to treat Americans it would ignite feelings of competition and aggression which would fuel support for his position, and opposition to Mexico. Liberals could not attack it without risking being out-grouped in the tribal psychological environment which it would elicit.

The amygdala hijack is supercharged by that sense of no good options. It makes the underlying concept explode in cognitive significance. And this would trigger that because the moment Trump couched leftist opposition to him as leftist support for Mexicans against Americans in a competitive environment, that will trigger the reflexive leftist awareness of in-grouping and out-grouping. Then liberals either have to say the oppressive Mexican law is fair to Americans in Mexico, and thus fair for Mexicans in America, or they can maintain it is unfair to Mexicans in America, but they are fine with it being applied to their fellow Americans by Mexico.

It would be extraordinarily irritating to them.


I love hispanics though!

Post: #33

(02-15-2017 11:57 AM)El Padrone Wrote:  Damien, with due respect, Mexico ''demands'' NOTHING of the Los Estados Unidos. It is in no position to do such a thing.
The people who make demands are advocacy groups who have nothing to do with Mexico. Someone could say Mexico probably funds those groups, but I'd like to see irrefutable proof of this.

Mexico is paying the legal bills for its people who are staying in the US illegally. It just allocated 50 million dollars to this. That 50 million could've gone to fighting the cartels, or making its own peoples lives better, but the Mexican government decided the best use of that money was helping its people parasite off of us.

Quote:In any case, there are far more gringos living in mexico illegally than there are Mexicanos living in Los Estados Unidos illegally.

This isn't true, obviously. But as an American, I say to Mexico that if it does find any illegal Americans in its country, it's free to jail them, kick them out, confiscate their assets, or whatever else it may wish to do to them.

Quote:You sound very angry and I'd say you're justified in that anger. But you've been misinformed. Mexicanos are NOT flooding across your border. The mass of illegals are those who overstay their visas like Asians, Africans etc not those who ''flood'' across the border.

This is also an obvious falsehood. But if you're concerned about discrimination, let me say that the illegal Asians and Africans have to go back too. There's no racial discrimination here. EVERYONE has to go back.

Post: #34

(02-15-2017 01:13 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  It just allocated 50 million dollars to this. That 50 million could've gone to fighting the cartels, or making its own peoples lives better

Or a down payment on something...

Post: #35

I just checked the 50 million dolares thing.

The economy is a funny thing.

You're aware this is money spent on American lawyers right? And that these powerful lawyers are some of the most aggressive advocates of migrants rights. This is not out of the goodness of their heart or because they are bleeding heart liberals, but because... Yeah, CASH.


This is not subversion of the American system. The American govt itself does the very damn same thing to aid its nationals in foreign countries.

TLDR, it is a non story because all govts do it to aid their citizens.

PS: All I say on this thread, I say with respect. I do not mock or insult or cast aspersions on anyone.

Gracias.

Post: #36

My thoughts about Mexico are conflicted.

The border is fucking circus act and obviously this illegal immigration cannot continue, but at the same time, I do not believe it is in the United States' long term best interest to alienate the country. One of the great geopoitical advantages the US has is that it only shares borders with two countries in North America. There is SO MUCH bullshit we do not have to deal with because we are not physically connected to Africa and Eurasia. (If we do get involved, it's by choice, not geographic necessity)

While I'm certainly not some globalist fag who thinks we should be putting every other country's needs ahead of out own, it is naive to think- and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here- that we can just build a wall and not have to care about what's going on down there anymore.

If Mexico were to collapse it would affect us, wall or not- and not in a good way. A failed state thousands of miles away is one thing. Having a totally failed narco-state right next door to us with a population of 120 million would be extremely dangerous. Terrorists could just pour in and other countries like China which don't exactly have our best interest at heart could theroretically see it as an opportunity to gain a strategic foothold in the western hemisphere.

I don't know what the solution is. I think it ultimately lies with the Mexican people themselves. But we cannot just adopt a "fuck it" isolationist attitude with a country right next door to us.

Post: #37

If Mexico collapses, it'll be another geopolitical opportunity for America to expand her borders.

And I don't have a problem with that.

Post: #38

Mexico is NOT collapsing. Mexico is NOT going anywhere. As a friend or as a nightmare. You choose.

Post: #39

NovaVirtu Mexico is effectively an enemy of the United States, they are sneaky enough about it for that to be an unpopular position to take, and impossible for a politician who wants to win.

The wall will make it obvious that Mexico is already a failed state kept afloat by criminal immigration and drug money.

If I, a patriotic American had to choose between building a wall and Mexico descending into anarchy, or not building a wall and the entire continent collapsing, I would choose Mexico. Hence my Trump support.

Post: #40

(02-15-2017 03:42 PM)El Padrone Wrote:  Mexico is NOT collapsing. Mexico is NOT going anywhere. As a friend or as a nightmare. You choose.

If Mexico does collapse, it will be because of Mexicans. It will be because Mexicans decided to grow drugs rather than food. It will be because Mexicans voted in corrupt politicians. It will be because Mexicans joined cartels instead of building hospitals. It will be because Mexicans decided to build an economy based around illegal immigration and unsustainable one-sided trade deals instead of diversifying their industry base.

Mexico has access to a wonderful climate. Plenty of natural resources. Easy trade access to the world's largest economy. If they chose to, they could be an economic superpower on the order of Germany or Japan.

Instead, they chose to parasite off the US and grow drugs.

When the collapse comes to Mexico, I will not have the slightest sympathy. I'll read the stories about mass starvations, medicine shortages, riots, murders, and assassinations with a tired shrug, the same way I might read a story in the newspaper about a heroin junkie who was found dead in the gutter.

Post: #41

@SamuelBRoberts: Harsh, but truthful. At the end of the day, the citizens of any individual country decide what kind of country they'll have. There's zero reason why Mexico can't be a very successful country, other than the average Mexican (both politician and citizen) have decided they didn't want to fight hard enough to bring their standard of living up.

Post: #42

The only way Mexico does not collapse is if the following things all come true...

#1) Trump is successful and saves the USA from economic collapse. Our debt is near its limits, when it gets there all hell will break loose in the USA, but that is small peanuts compared to what will happen in Mexico. I love Trump, but asking this of one man and his team in just one branch of the USA against the most powerful people in the world is asking A LOT.

#2) After Trump success, we then have to send the military into Mexico to combat the corruption. The cartels have too much power, and after the govt. loses its largest income source, income coming from its citizens in the USA, all hell will break loose.

#3) After a military intervention, then Mexico will have to build a stable and modern society run on civility and not violence.

I don't think step #1 even happens. I am rooting for Trump, but I am realistic, there are a lot of very powerful people hoping to crush the US Dollar and replace it with a one world currency. If that happens, Mexico will look more like Afghanistan.

Post: #43

(02-15-2017 05:35 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Mexico has access to a wonderful climate. Plenty of natural resources. Easy trade access to the world's largest economy. If they chose to, they could be an economic superpower on the order of Germany or Japan.

No they couldn't their IQ ranking is tied with Samoa.

When the hell are people going to get real and understand when you have a single 100+ IQ person for handfuls below 85 your country isn't going anywhere fast.

How many dumb Americans are there? Ever watch the TV show Cops? Ok now make that group much much bigger proportionally, now you have Mexico. I think I have lost count of the times I have heard interviews of people from many failing countries that either immigrated to a first world country or were dreaming about it say about their fellow countrymen: "Most people just think life is about eating, shitting, & sleeping".

Developed civilization will have to be handed on a platter to many nations. They don't have what it takes. This isn't a Disney movie. Not everyone is smart or capable. We will be the aliens that finally land on them and deliver benevolent martial law.

Post: #44

SamB and Travesty are both right.

Mexico will never be like a successful White country. But, why can't it be more like Chile or Malaysia?

The wall will do a lot to shut down the nacro cash, and this will reduce the Cartels power by tenfold. Afterwards the Mexican people will have an opportunity to create a peaceful country with a acceptable standard of living, but I'm not sure if the culture there is capable of it. Corruption has become institutionalized in Mexico and people there do not seem to think in terms of justice or equality under the law.

Post: #45

Many consider that Mexico has never truly had a stable government in all of these years going back to the Mexican American War.

One of my High School history teachers put it very bluntly; "We should have just kept driving south and officially conquered the nation"

At the time it was challenging to grasp the idea of invading our neighbor to the south.

Today it's rather clear. The culture of Mexico was borne out of the Spanish colonial era and heavily influenced by the Catholic tradition. The USA came to fruition due to the enlightenment and a 2nd British Revolution. By the 20th century it was clear the USA was a global superpower by leveraging freedom, fighting a 2 fronted war while continuing to grow. Mexico could never accomplish such a thing. We are very different cultures indeed, and at this point, as frustrating as it is to recognize the problems of Mexico are proxy-wars related to American drug laws, we now have to recognize that Mexico is not capable of pulling themselves out of the mess and our direct military intervention will become necessary in the future.

OR WE CAN BUILD THAT WALL!!!

Post: #46

Mexico may be a failing state, but I have a lot of love for its people, who I find far warmer, more genuine and friendly than Americans.

Different mentality down there, less focus on work and hustling, hence why they don't have the success US does.

Post: #47

(02-14-2017 01:27 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  If the cartels are causing this much trouble, shouldn't Mexico WANT a wall and tripled border enforcement?

It sounds to me like they're willing to let their own country go to shit rather than lose the opportunity to take the US's money.

I'm not an expert, but there are positive sides to the cartels, which the U.S. media conveniently likes to keep quiet. How often do you hear about the cartels donating hospitals, funding roads, or any kind of philanthropy at all? Not very often and although I don't have an exact figure, I would say they contribute millions and millions of dollars toward positive causes. All that being said, the negative impact of the cartels far exceeds the positive impact and they need to go. I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

Post: #48

Senor Samuel, you got to understand that for many people, joining the cartels seems like the only viable choice.

Every single person they see growing up with the money, pretty buchones, cars, houses and power, is a narco.

Chapo said in his interview that that life was the only one open to him. This statement is true for millions of kids in the country. The poverty is too crushing and for many men of spirit, the Narco provides a way, albeit with a violent death or prison as the only way out.

Why things are this way is complicated but it boils down to corruption NOT Mexican Culture( whatever that is). Culture is never a determinant of economic success as has been shown in the book ''Why Nations Fail''. NAFTA devastated the agricultural sector of the economy, so why should the not farm something else gringos want??

Follow the money.

Senor Travesty, I can't believe you said that. Mexicanos are dumb low IQ bumblers?? You put a whole nation down as idiots?? Its getting emotional for me so I'll stop here.

Merenguero, believe me, there's NO positive side to the cartels. The Robin Hood drug lord story is a myth. Do you suppose they risk their life to take take of random shit??

Senor Samseau, the wall, IF it is ever built, will STOP NOTHING. Not the cash, not the drugs. Nothing. Senor Escobar's business model reduces a wall to an expensive graffitti board.

Senor Its my time, Trump sends the military into Mexico?? Are you serious? I'm dumbfounded. Are you serious???

Post: #49

And to reteirate, The United States of Mexico is NOT collapsing. It is NOT at risk of collapsing. Thoughts that it'd collapse are the hallucinations of gringos high on the potent stuff Sinaloenses supply.

And If it collapses, how'd many of you ever get your good stuff??

Post: #50

Facts are facts IQs are IQs.

People get emotional and hate that argument because you can say "I love their people", "Their culture is not at fault', XYZ reason - you can't get around low intelligence and its effects.

Corruption and slow developing societies are the result of not enough high intelligently population in proportion to steer the country in the right direction.

Here is a great test for a country's potential of success:

Say outloud: "Mexican Spaceship"

Try to do it without laughing or smiling a bit on the inside.

Say outloud any country with Spaceship after...

American Spaceship - it works
Japanese Spaceship - I don't laugh
French Spaceship...
Swiss Spaceship...
British Spaceship...
German Spaceship...
Chinese Spaceship...

Ok ok now say "Somali Spaceship". Don't smile when you say it.