Post: #1

I've been in this game for four years, in that I've been serious about getting laid for that long.

During that time I've fucked about 40 girls and had two Ltrs one for two years and one for 8 months which I guess you might call successful. Some of these were from cold approach and some from online.

But I'm still not seeing the quality that I think I should be getting. I still feel like there is some major piece of the social puzzle that I am missing. More than just gaming women, this happens to me in other social situations as well.

I am a logical person with a direct mind and a direct way of thinking about things. This makes me fucking great at my job (software engineer) but apparently is a total handicap in game.

And after all this time and probably over a thousand cold approaches, I am still not getting it. I find it impossible to contribute much in a social situations where people are just relaxing and talking shit. My mind is screaming at me all the time "ok but what's the point?" They're all laughing and making wisecracks and saying funny stuff, I want to do that but it's like my mind just sends me nothing. So I come across like a quiet person and this is definitely a problem for getting laid. Women will say something to me sometimes that just doesn't make logical sense and I don't get what they mean by it. Then later on I'm thinking wait was that an insult? Was it sarcasm? I have no idea.

Don't get me wrong I don't get social anxiety. I beat that out of myself years ago. In some cases I even come across as extroverted.

But the way that girls talk and how some guys are able to come up with these quick witty comebacks... I just don't get it. I can talk for hours about something I know but I feel like there is some angle in social situations that everyone else is seeing and it's invisible to me. I take statements way too logically and miss stuff that other people say is sarcasm. I read witty retorts and exchanges online and I think to myself "how are people coming up with this stuff?" There's just no way I can think of it even when I sit down with pencil and paper and think through an interaction I draw blanks.

I thought that doing enough approaches and enough exposure to being in social situations and groups with other people would reveal this missing piece to me. But it hasn't happened. I lead a really interesting life and have done a lot of cool stuff, I've learned Spanish, travelled to many countries, built businesses etc... but I can't seem to easily extract any cool stories from it to tell people in a way that they're interested in.

I know people say that game is a learned skill but I have been trying to figure this out for a while and I'm at a loss. I'm starting to think that this ability to say funny stuff, ramble about (what seems to me) nonsense in an entertaining way and respond to others comments and digs with little reposts really is something that you are born with or not. Like there is some level of social awareness that I am just missing. I wish it came easy to me, but it doesn't. So I am trying to figure out some way I can learn it but I'm drawing a blank.

Can anyone advise me on this? More approaches is not the answer here, I've tried that already.

Post: #2

Tell us how you got to 40 if you didn't smalltalk.

Post: #3

40 is pretty impressive, fuck the quality.

Post: #4

You're taking yourself too seriously. Being witty and storytelling are skills you can work on but pulling out a notepad and trying, in a vacuum, to write witty reparte is not the way to do it. In a basic sense a lot of being funny is saying/doing things that are actually kind of mean, kind of stupid, or kind of untrue. You're alive and have 5 functioning senses so actually coming up with things to say in any situation is easier than you think it is. The next step is just making the statement a little less direct.

Last night I was at karaoke and a few of my friends were stumbling through a song and I started howling like a dog and everyone else cracked up (including my friends that were singing). I could have just said something like "Ouch my ears!" but that would've just been mean. So I took a logical and true observation and presented it creatively to make it playful.

Post: #5

(02-05-2017 10:32 AM)questor70 Wrote:  Tell us how you got to 40 if you didn't smalltalk.

I can smalltalk no problem. One-on-one is usually OK I just talk about myself, my life, my goals and who I am.

In group situations or with hotter girls one-on-one I find it much more difficult, like they are communicating on a different level that I can't quite see clearly.

(02-05-2017 11:15 AM)Mr. Nobody From Nowhere Wrote:  You're taking yourself too seriously. Being witty and storytelling are skills you can work on but pulling out a notepad and trying, in a vacuum, to write witty reparte is not the way to do it.

Then what is the way to do it?

Quote:In a basic sense a lot of being funny is saying/doing things that are actually kind of mean, kind of stupid, or kind of untrue. You're alive and have 5 functioning senses so actually coming up with things to say in any situation is easier than you think it is. The next step is just making the statement a little less direct.

This is actually quite helpful, thanks. Take what I was going to say and making it more indirect.

Quote:Last night I was at karaoke and a few of my friends were stumbling through a song and I started howling like a dog and everyone else cracked up (including my friends that were singing). I could have just said something like "Ouch my ears!" but that would've just been mean. So I took a logical and true observation and presented it creatively to make it playful.

That is a really useful example. You got any more?

Post: #6

Rafaeld, you sound a LOT like me and I have Asperger Syndrome. Get yourself evaluated for this ASAP.

(02-05-2017 10:20 AM)rafaeld Wrote:  I've been in this game for four years, in that I've been serious about getting laid for that long.

During that time I've fucked about 40 girls and had two Ltrs one for two years and one for 8 months which I guess you might call successful. Some of these were from cold approach and some from online.

But I'm still not seeing the quality that I think I should be getting. I still feel like there is some major piece of the social puzzle that I am missing. More than just gaming women, this happens to me in other social situations as well.

I am a logical person with a direct mind and a direct way of thinking about things. This makes me fucking great at my job (software engineer) but apparently is a total handicap in game.

And after all this time and probably over a thousand cold approaches, I am still not getting it. I find it impossible to contribute much in a social situations where people are just relaxing and talking shit. My mind is screaming at me all the time "ok but what's the point?" They're all laughing and making wisecracks and saying funny stuff, I want to do that but it's like my mind just sends me nothing. So I come across like a quiet person and this is definitely a problem for getting laid. Women will say something to me sometimes that just doesn't make logical sense and I don't get what they mean by it. Then later on I'm thinking wait was that an insult? Was it sarcasm? I have no idea.

Don't get me wrong I don't get social anxiety. I beat that out of myself years ago. In some cases I even come across as extroverted.

But the way that girls talk and how some guys are able to come up with these quick witty comebacks... I just don't get it. I can talk for hours about something I know but I feel like there is some angle in social situations that everyone else is seeing and it's invisible to me. I take statements way too logically and miss stuff that other people say is sarcasm. I read witty retorts and exchanges online and I think to myself "how are people coming up with this stuff?" There's just no way I can think of it even when I sit down with pencil and paper and think through an interaction I draw blanks.

I thought that doing enough approaches and enough exposure to being in social situations and groups with other people would reveal this missing piece to me. But it hasn't happened. I lead a really interesting life and have done a lot of cool stuff, I've learned Spanish, travelled to many countries, built businesses etc... but I can't seem to easily extract any cool stories from it to tell people in a way that they're interested in.

I know people say that game is a learned skill but I have been trying to figure this out for a while and I'm at a loss. I'm starting to think that this ability to say funny stuff, ramble about (what seems to me) nonsense in an entertaining way and respond to others comments and digs with little reposts really is something that you are born with or not. Like there is some level of social awareness that I am just missing. I wish it came easy to me, but it doesn't. So I am trying to figure out some way I can learn it but I'm drawing a blank.

Can anyone advise me on this? More approaches is not the answer here, I've tried that already.

Post: #7

(02-06-2017 02:46 AM)Broke Dick Dog Wrote:  Rafaeld, you sound a LOT like me and I have Asperger Syndrome. Get yourself evaluated for this ASAP.

If I have it I'd rather not know because that information can't possibly help me. I don't agree with this naming things because half the time it's just an excuse for not bothering to improve yourself.

(I don't think I have it btw. I've seen people with Asperger, that's not what I'm like. I probably just spent too much time in front of a computer when I was at school)

Post: #8

here is a possibility. consider if this may be what is holding you back from what you consider success.

you are intelligent and competent, and so by sheer will power you can do enough approaches to get 40 notches in 40 years. But what is holding you back is not game skills per se, but a subconscious fear or subconscious feeling that you don't deserve the higher quality notches. this is what the experienced gamers call frame, an abundance mentality, etc. When you realize that the 9 is every bit as worthless as the 6.5, you treat the 9 like a 6.5. I'll give you a small example. I stopped for lunch at Tilted Kilt a few weeks ago, a restaurant that is similar to Hooters. I asked the waitress to change the channel to put my game on. She complied, at least she tried, and she even recruited a friend to help, but they were unsuccessful. I actually remarked to her (in a mostly playful way), What are you girls good for? She sat down and started jumping through my hoops. . . . we can bring you food, etc etc. Its when you internalize that a 9 is the same as a 6, and you don't care if you lose them, that they will try to impress you.

Post: #9

(02-05-2017 10:32 PM)rafaeld Wrote:  

(02-05-2017 10:32 AM)questor70 Wrote:  Tell us how you got to 40 if you didn't smalltalk.

I can smalltalk no problem. One-on-one is usually OK I just talk about myself, my life, my goals and who I am.

In group situations or with hotter girls one-on-one I find it much more difficult, like they are communicating on a different level that I can't quite see clearly.

(02-05-2017 11:15 AM)Mr. Nobody From Nowhere Wrote:  You're taking yourself too seriously. Being witty and storytelling are skills you can work on but pulling out a notepad and trying, in a vacuum, to write witty reparte is not the way to do it.

Then what is the way to do it?

Quote:In a basic sense a lot of being funny is saying/doing things that are actually kind of mean, kind of stupid, or kind of untrue. You're alive and have 5 functioning senses so actually coming up with things to say in any situation is easier than you think it is. The next step is just making the statement a little less direct.

This is actually quite helpful, thanks. Take what I was going to say and making it more indirect.

Quote:Last night I was at karaoke and a few of my friends were stumbling through a song and I started howling like a dog and everyone else cracked up (including my friends that were singing). I could have just said something like "Ouch my ears!" but that would've just been mean. So I took a logical and true observation and presented it creatively to make it playful.

That is a really useful example. You got any more?

It's sort of cheating but reference humour can be quite clever. Dropping song lyrics and movie/tv/Shakespeare/whatever quotes in conversation is good when not overused. The phrase "No shit, Sherlock" is a cliche but that idea of referring to someone as a certain character when they are acting a certain way can be clever. It doesn't even have to be media stuff. A friend of mine forgot the word "x-rays" and called them "doctor pictures" and he is now forever going to be "Dr. Pictures" and it's fun explaining to new people precisely why.

There's plenty of other kinds of humour but this is just my general personal style. Anyone can make simple observations about stuff and connect it to the shared knowledge/experience of people around them. You get bonus points for the faster you can do it but doing it at all generally shows some cleverness.

Personally I'm quite a huge dick but I'm playful enough to make it work. Comedy and social aptitude are both risk taking ventures so "nothing ventured, nothing gained" but do be mindful if you're going to do something silly like calling the British dude you just met a "fucking Tory cunt" in a cockney accent and shout "David Cameron fucked a pig" at him when he tries to mount a comeback. Some nights that gets you laughs and a handshake and on others it gets your teeth kicked in.

Post: #10

(02-05-2017 10:20 AM)rafaeld Wrote:  I've been in this game for four years, in that I've been serious about getting laid for that long.

During that time I've fucked about 40 girls and had two Ltrs one for two years and one for 8 months which I guess you might call successful. Some of these were from cold approach and some from online.

But I'm still not seeing the quality that I think I should be getting. I still feel like there is some major piece of the social puzzle that I am missing. More than just gaming women, this happens to me in other social situations as well.

I am a logical person with a direct mind and a direct way of thinking about things. This makes me fucking great at my job (software engineer) but apparently is a total handicap in game.

And after all this time and probably over a thousand cold approaches, I am still not getting it. I find it impossible to contribute much in a social situations where people are just relaxing and talking shit. My mind is screaming at me all the time "ok but what's the point?" They're all laughing and making wisecracks and saying funny stuff, I want to do that but it's like my mind just sends me nothing. So I come across like a quiet person and this is definitely a problem for getting laid. Women will say something to me sometimes that just doesn't make logical sense and I don't get what they mean by it. Then later on I'm thinking wait was that an insult? Was it sarcasm? I have no idea.

Don't get me wrong I don't get social anxiety. I beat that out of myself years ago. In some cases I even come across as extroverted.

But the way that girls talk and how some guys are able to come up with these quick witty comebacks... I just don't get it. I can talk for hours about something I know but I feel like there is some angle in social situations that everyone else is seeing and it's invisible to me. I take statements way too logically and miss stuff that other people say is sarcasm. I read witty retorts and exchanges online and I think to myself "how are people coming up with this stuff?" There's just no way I can think of it even when I sit down with pencil and paper and think through an interaction I draw blanks.

I thought that doing enough approaches and enough exposure to being in social situations and groups with other people would reveal this missing piece to me. But it hasn't happened. I lead a really interesting life and have done a lot of cool stuff, I've learned Spanish, travelled to many countries, built businesses etc... but I can't seem to easily extract any cool stories from it to tell people in a way that they're interested in.

I know people say that game is a learned skill but I have been trying to figure this out for a while and I'm at a loss. I'm starting to think that this ability to say funny stuff, ramble about (what seems to me) nonsense in an entertaining way and respond to others comments and digs with little reposts really is something that you are born with or not. Like there is some level of social awareness that I am just missing. I wish it came easy to me, but it doesn't. So I am trying to figure out some way I can learn it but I'm drawing a blank.

Can anyone advise me on this? More approaches is not the answer here, I've tried that already.

Game is not a learned skill, it's an experienced skill. It's learned by experience and the ironic thing about it is that the more you learn, the more you realize all the shit you learned in the past was actually pointless to begin with. Snarky comebacks, beings funny -- is an example of this. You don't need to learn this. The guys who are successful at doing this are guys who are just living in their personality and developed their game around it and therefore it isn't a show, rather it's real.

You notice one thing about game advice, it's usually a new guy asking a question and another new guy giving advice. It's a pissing contest to see who has solved the magic puzzle. Guess what, there is no magic puzzle or fancy things you can say to get laid. Game is nothing more than following your PROCESS over and over that you know to be successful through repetition based off your personality and life experience. And your process always evolves and adapts overtime as life, goals , and other variables change. But this change is slow. It's not being funny one day and serious the next. Everyone has a different process and would be completely stupid to follow someone else's. This is what's so disturbing about seeing these PUA on youtube and the 50,000 game books out there, you got ugly guys who looked like they haven't showered, shit, or shaved in a year walking around pretending to be models, you got models walking around trying to act like comedians, and you guys running around in clubs acting like apes trying to see who can beat their chest the hardest because the internet told them it was "alpha."

Game is nothing more than this:
1. Show up as man who isn't putting on some sort of show; be masculine and confident.
2. Communicate though your process that you like the girl (direct, indirect, funny, serious, eye contact, touch, shit you could read her a poem if you want, doesn't matter)
3. Invite her to make a memory with you.
4. Repeat

Attraction and confidence will always be the hidden variables. The rest is just noise.

The problem isn't guys don't know game, it's that they never show up and tell a woman what they want, and when they do show up, they are putting on a show trying to be someone else because they think their real-self sucks and all these books taught them some bullshit. If you're talking to a woman, wondering what to say next , you've already said too much.

Develop game around your personality -- funny, serious, intense, carefree -- doesn't matter. Just make sure you show up. It all works. I've seen it work through many years and years of doing this. None is better than the other. And remember, men are on earth to be self-reliant and women are here to establish social relationships. Never forget that when you're trying to be the social butterfly at a club.

Post: #11

^^^
Such a good post, so much truth.

Articulates well my own thinking that attraction and 'game' is just a very natural process that would happen a lot more smoothly if most people didn't get in the way of themselves, either through anxiety or just trying too hard, as he says to be someone they're not.

The whole idea of memorising lines or processes or generally overthinking this stuff has always seemed alien to me since I discovered the world of 'game' (AKA flirting) a few years ago.

A big thing that has always stood out for me though, which is not really mentioned above is the 'vibe' that springs up naturally between any two people.
I think of it as a mixture between mine and their individual vibes and it seems to become an entity of its own.

It is different with each girl and I have learned to just go with it, I never really think too much, I just let it be and work its magic.

As an example (with the more fiesty girls) the vibe seems to draw out a really cocky/funny shit talking side of me (that I see as needed to basically establish my mental dominance over them).
It starts light as the vibe is forming and as they start to eat it up, it just gets stronger and stronger as the vibe intensifies.
Afterwards I often wonder how the fuck I managed to come up with so many quick witted, funny comebacks, because I'm not always naturally like that, and couldn't do it cold if my life depended on it.

But the thing is, it's not really me doing it, it just happens on its own when I'm going with the vibe.

With another girl, it will be totally different, and I'll find myself being more mysterious and saying less, mentally leaning back letting them fill the space.
Or with a different girl again, I might find myself being more animated and expressive.

I never plan how I'm going to be, it just happens on its own and I just go with it.

I guess objectively, and in the way Linux describes, you could say those are simply facets to my basic character that I'm able to amplify as needed in the moment, but it's never conscious and to me it just feels like it happens on its own.

It doesn't always work obviously, sometimes there just isnt much of a vibe at all and I let those ones go, I don't try chasing or forcing anything.
With some, it starts tentatively and grows and with others it's strong from the start.

Those are usually the easiest lays lol.

Post: #12

(02-05-2017 10:32 PM)rafaeld Wrote:  I can smalltalk no problem. One-on-one is usually OK I just talk about myself, my life, my goals and who I am.

It sounds like you're just an introvert, nothing more, nothing less.

You can try to force yourself to open up in groups, but it doesn't sound like you're ever going to dominate such situations, and with a notch count of 40, it doesn't seem like you really need to.

Post: #13

(02-05-2017 10:20 AM)rafaeld Wrote:  I find it impossible to contribute much in a social situations where people are just relaxing and talking shit. My mind is screaming at me all the time "ok but what's the point?" They're all laughing and making wisecracks and saying funny stuff, I want to do that but it's like my mind just sends me nothing. So I come across like a quiet person and this is definitely a problem for getting laid. Women will say something to me sometimes that just doesn't make logical sense and I don't get what they mean by it. Then later on I'm thinking wait was that an insult? Was it sarcasm? I have no idea.

The whole point is to let loose, enjoy being silly and have some laughter. Your mind sends you nothing because you're searching for a meaning of it all and you want to contribute some valuable information to the conversation. It's killing the vibe. Logic kills fun.

It's like people talk shit about some weird car and you tell them what it is made of and its capabilities. They're pumping their state with bullshit and throw logic into it. It snips that fun vibe. Different example, a chicks is fantasizing that she wanna have such big bathroom she could play baseball in [so total nonsense] and you tell her that big bathroom is waste of space because in the house because according to modern architecture trends it should be this and that. You kill that fun she was having talking shit with some dry facts and logic.

Get it?

(02-05-2017 10:20 AM)rafaeld Wrote:  But the way that girls talk and how some guys are able to come up with these quick witty comebacks... I just don't get it. I can talk for hours about something I know but I feel like there is some angle in social situations that everyone else is seeing and it's invisible to me. I take statements way too logically and miss stuff that other people say is sarcasm. I read witty retorts and exchanges online and I think to myself "how are people coming up with this stuff?" There's just no way I can think of it even when I sit down with pencil and paper and think through an interaction I draw blanks.

You're right, there is some angle that you miss. People come up with those silly lines and jokes to contribute more fun to the conversation. It can be totally stupid but as long as it's funny to everybody it's good.

Imagine a fireplace. In order to keep it alive and burning you have to throw something to it to burn and keep you warm. It's the same with those fun idiotic conversations about nothing. People talk shit and throw their jokes and lines to the mix to keep that fun vibe alive. Sometimes they say some random stuff about random things and it's cool. Sometimes they start busting each others balls cause cause it's funny to see who comes up with better and funnier thing to say, who cracks under pressure and gets owned, who is more spontaneous, etc.

Coming up with witty stuff is about spontaneous associations combined with routine jokes you have in mind. On one hand you hear and see things which you associate with things you wanna say thanks to your imagination. On the other hand you mix it with your standard things you like to say you have in mind.

For example, a chick asks me if I have a GF.

If I freestyle then I might take something she's wearing and use that to describe how I broke up with my last GF over the fact that she liked to wear the same thing [I just made it up on the spot as I'm writing it]. It's engaging cause I address something that THIS girl in front of wears [her favorite topic in the world is HERSELF], I misinterpret it in a way that she's not expecting so she wants to correct me or is curious why I'm saying what I'm saying, it gives her more topics to touch upon, etc.

On the other hand I can use some standard things I have stored in my memory that I like to say, like.. "not really and you? [and I push it asking if she likes girls etc]. This is like a routine, it's just proven to be funny and it leads to interesting topics. It's just there in my mind ready to be used and I don't forget it cause I use it from time to time. You learn those as you go about life and you hear funny shit. Those can be one liners, jokes, short stories. I don't know where I heard "If I was an ice cream, how would you eat me?" line but I remember it.

(02-05-2017 10:20 AM)rafaeld Wrote:  I thought that doing enough approaches and enough exposure to being in social situations and groups with other people would reveal this missing piece to me. But it hasn't happened. I lead a really interesting life and have done a lot of cool stuff, I've learned Spanish, travelled to many countries, built businesses etc... but I can't seem to easily extract any cool stories from it to tell people in a way that they're interested in.

You can't convey cool things about you because you probably try to exchange information. You want to lead with content itself. Thing is, the content itself is not as important as you make it so with the way you talk about. It's the whole HOW YOU SAY IT thing. This is veeery broad topic.

In a nuthshell, good verbal game is when I write down every word I said to a girl I banged within few hours and you look at it and ask me.. "wtf is this shit?" If you ask me that it means I have tight verbal game. Why? Because it means I was able to kidnap that girl's mind and imagination saying nothing interesting and funny. It was that WHEN/WHERE/HOW I SAID IT that made all the difference.

(02-05-2017 10:20 AM)rafaeld Wrote:  I know people say that game is a learned skill but I have been trying to figure this out for a while and I'm at a loss. I'm starting to think that this ability to say funny stuff, ramble about (what seems to me) nonsense in an entertaining way and respond to others comments and digs with little reposts really is something that you are born with or not. Like there is some level of social awareness that I am just missing.

It is just a skillset, not talent. It's a matter of CONSCIOUS practice.

It's tough to just start of course. That's why routine based game was popular at first in game community. It gave guys some structure and plan. Crutches are fine when you can't walk on your own. Then you have to break it down why certain routines work almost everytime while others don't. Once you figure it out and have a gist of it then you can come up with your own stuff and can tell whether some other stuff you heard somewhere is good or not. You know more, learn more, remember more, use it more, refine it as you go, etc.

That's how you get better at it.

I dare you to hang out with a quick witted guy. You will notice how much of his wit and verbal game is scripted shit or stuff based on the same patterns. It's quite a lot. But to others who don't spend a lot of time with him don't know that so they are under big impression almost every time they speak to him.

Post: #14

OP, since you're analytical type of a guy I can write a lot more about it from technical standpoint so that you can have some structure to start with. I've guessing that "just show up and be cool bro" type of advice doesn't tell you shit.

It's true that there is nothing magic about it but there are tips and tricks that actually help to get the ball rolling no question about it.

Post: #15

(02-06-2017 05:53 PM)XXL Wrote:  OP, since you're analytical type of a guy I can write a lot more about it from technical standpoint so that you can have some structure to start with. I've guessing that "just show up and be cool bro" type of advice doesn't tell you shit.

It's true that there is nothing magic about it but there are tips and tricks that actually help to get the ball rolling no question about it.

I would like it if you wrote more about the technical stuff

Post: #16

(02-06-2017 04:47 PM)XXL Wrote:  I don't know where I heard "If I was an ice cream, how would you eat me?" line but I remember it.

Gonna try this when I'm vibing with a chick. Or if the conversation turns to ice cream.

Great write-up XXL.

Post: #17

I wrote something about HOW TO but that's just very basic outline. OP needs WHY more than HOW TO. I'll try my best when I'm free

Post: #18

(02-06-2017 12:29 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Game is not a learned skill, it's an experienced skill. It's learned by experience and the ironic thing about it is that the more you learn, the more you realize all the shit you learned in the past was actually pointless to begin with. Snarky comebacks, beings funny -- is an example of this. You don't need to learn this. The guys who are successful at doing this are guys who are just living in their personality and developed their game around it and therefore it isn't a show, rather it's real.

You notice one thing about game advice, it's usually a new guy asking a question and another new guy giving advice. It's a pissing contest to see who has solved the magic puzzle. Guess what, there is no magic puzzle or fancy things you can say to get laid. Game is nothing more than following your PROCESS over and over that you know to be successful through repetition based off your personality and life experience. And your process always evolves and adapts overtime as life, goals , and other variables change. But this change is slow. It's not being funny one day and serious the next. Everyone has a different process and would be completely stupid to follow someone else's. This is what's so disturbing about seeing these PUA on youtube and the 50,000 game books out there, you got ugly guys who looked like they haven't showered, shit, or shaved in a year walking around pretending to be models, you got models walking around trying to act like comedians, and you guys running around in clubs acting like apes trying to see who can beat their chest the hardest because the internet told them it was "alpha."

Game is nothing more than this:
1. Show up as man who isn't putting on some sort of show; be masculine and confident.
2. Communicate though your process that you like the girl (direct, indirect, funny, serious, eye contact, touch, shit you could read her a poem if you want, doesn't matter)
3. Invite her to make a memory with you.
4. Repeat

Attraction and confidence will always be the hidden variables. The rest is just noise.

The problem isn't guys don't know game, it's that they never show up and tell a woman what they want, and when they do show up, they are putting on a show trying to be someone else because they think their real-self sucks and all these books taught them some bullshit. If you're talking to a woman, wondering what to say next , you've already said too much.

Develop game around your personality -- funny, serious, intense, carefree -- doesn't matter. Just make sure you show up. It all works. I've seen it work through many years and years of doing this. None is better than the other. And remember, men are on earth to be self-reliant and women are here to establish social relationships. Never forget that when you're trying to be the social butterfly at a club.

The only issue with this approach is that it's very instinctive, natural, organic. Be true to your nature is something only experienced guys really understand.

To quote Bruce Lee:

Quote:"Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick.

After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick.

Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick.

The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum."

And that's exactly what guys like OP probably have a hard time getting. Once you know a little game, things seem more complicated than when you had none. And so these guys often ask for a breakdown. A step by step guide. Which is the opposite of the "natural" path.

Nonetheless - great post.

Post: #19

I'm an analytical and introverted guy, and I get what both XXL and LINUX are saying.

When I first started learning game, I was so overwhelmed by the amount of information on the Internet and in books that I wished for a simpler structure to remember when I actually have a girl in front of me. It's impossible to remember everything you read about game, and even if you remembered 10% of it, that's enough information to overload your brain and you'd freeze up in the middle of an interaction (lord knows how many times I've frozen up when a girl dished it out on me).

I also remember wondering about the "why's" behind the "how's", but I'll say this -- worrying about the why's behind game is largely a waste of time and only leads to mental masturbation and unnecessary inner game issues if taken to the extreme. For example, you don't need to know why you need to turn the ignition to start a car. You only need to know that you need to turn the ignition, and how.

All you need is a simple structure that is easy to remember. I don't know what that structure is for you (OP) personally... I could give you MY structure that I developed for myself, but it might not work for you. You might not even remember it. It's best if you created your own structure -- it doesn't have to be perfect. Just something that YOU can remember and adapt easily. Then tweak it over time based on your experience, both successes and failures.

It may have taken me years, but I don't really think about game that much anymore. One could say that I just show up and "do my thing". Some women get on well with it. Others might walk away within two minutes. I've had dates where I can't even remember a single word I said, that ended in sex. I've also had dates that completely bombed. Sometimes I have dates where I don't even talk for a good 5 or 10 minutes, and communicate with her only by my gazes and looks. Other times I drone on about meaningless shit, then I abruptly stop talking, look at her for a minute, and then tickle her until she nearly pisses in her pants.

From the outside looking in, there seems to be so much variation... but almost everything I do follows a basic structure -- my own structure -- that I developed over the years, and the rest is calibration and adaptation to the context. That is something you get with experience.

Post: #20

(02-06-2017 12:29 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Game is not a learned skill, it's an experienced skill. It's learned by experience and the ironic thing about it is that the more you learn, the more you realize all the shit you learned in the past was actually pointless to begin with. Snarky comebacks, beings funny -- is an example of this. You don't need to learn this. The guys who are successful at doing this are guys who are just living in their personality and developed their game around it and therefore it isn't a show, rather it's real.

...

Game is nothing more than this:
1. Show up as man who isn't putting on some sort of show; be masculine and confident.
2. Communicate though your process that you like the girl (direct, indirect, funny, serious, eye contact, touch, shit you could read her a poem if you want, doesn't matter)
3. Invite her to make a memory with you.
4. Repeat

Super helpful man. Thanks.

Attraction and confidence will always be the hidden variables. The rest is just noise.

Quote:And remember, men are on earth to be self-reliant and women are here to establish social relationships. Never forget that when you're trying to be the social butterfly at a club.

Something I have always known but get frustrated because it seems like the more "feminine" socialite men have an easier time getting laid.

(02-06-2017 02:30 PM)questor70 Wrote:  You can try to force yourself to open up in groups, but it doesn't sound like you're ever going to dominate such situations, and with a notch count of 40, it doesn't seem like you really need to.

Well, we can always aim for higher quality notches . And anyway I like having fun in social situations, I want to be able to relax and shoot the shit more.

(02-06-2017 04:47 PM)XXL Wrote:  The whole point is to let loose, enjoy being silly and have some laughter. Your mind sends you nothing because you're searching for a meaning of it all and you want to contribute some valuable information to the conversation. It's killing the vibe. Logic kills fun.

It's like people talk shit about some weird car and you tell them what it is made of and its capabilities. They're pumping their state with bullshit and throw logic into it. It snips that fun vibe. Different example, a chicks is fantasizing that she wanna have such big bathroom she could play baseball in [so total nonsense] and you tell her that big bathroom is waste of space because in the house because according to modern architecture trends it should be this and that. You kill that fun she was having talking shit with some dry facts and logic.

Get it?

Yes! Dude this makes so much sense and I never had anyone spell it out like this before. Why da fuck does nobody teach these things.

Quote:You're right, there is some angle that you miss. People come up with those silly lines and jokes to contribute more fun to the conversation. It can be totally stupid but as long as it's funny to everybody it's good.

Imagine a fireplace. In order to keep it alive and burning you have to throw something to it to burn and keep you warm. It's the same with those fun idiotic conversations about nothing. People talk shit and throw their jokes and lines to the mix to keep that fun vibe alive. Sometimes they say some random stuff about random things and it's cool. Sometimes they start busting each others balls cause cause it's funny to see who comes up with better and funnier thing to say, who cracks under pressure and gets owned, who is more spontaneous, etc.

I love this metaphor. I made a note of it and will remember it for sure next time I am in a group of people or one-on-one shooting the shit.

"Feed the fire with sparks and wood"

Another metaphor I came up with from reading this is to be the stone that skims on the surface of the social "water", not the rock that plows into it (difference between light-hearted fun nonsense conversation and diving deep into the logic conversation).

Quote:If I freestyle then I might take something she's wearing and use that to describe how I broke up with my last GF over the fact that she liked to wear the same thing [I just made it up on the spot as I'm writing it]. It's engaging cause I address something that THIS girl in front of wears [her favorite topic in the world is HERSELF], I misinterpret it in a way that she's not expecting so she wants to correct me or is curious why I'm saying what I'm saying, it gives her more topics to touch upon, etc.

Great example, really helps illustrate the "sparks to the fire" concept.

Quote:You can't convey cool things about you because you probably try to exchange information. You want to lead with content itself. Thing is, the content itself is not as important as you make it so with the way you talk about. It's the whole HOW YOU SAY IT thing. This is veeery broad topic.

I get what you're saying but not a clue how to change "how I say it".

Quote:I dare you to hang out with a quick witted guy. You will notice how much of his wit and verbal game is scripted shit or stuff based on the same patterns. It's quite a lot. But to others who don't spend a lot of time with him don't know that so they are under big impression almost every time they speak to him.

I have a friend like this. His life is a complete mess but he is HILARIOUS, the one-liners he comes out with you wouldn't believe. One time he started a fight in a club and got carried outside by a bouncer (he's short and skinny) meanwhile he's yelling at the guy "I'll fight all of you, you couldn't bounce a f--king basketball mate" ?.

(02-06-2017 05:53 PM)XXL Wrote:  OP, since you're analytical type of a guy I can write a lot more about it from technical standpoint so that you can have some structure to start with. I've guessing that "just show up and be cool bro" type of advice doesn't tell you shit.

It's true that there is nothing magic about it but there are tips and tricks that actually help to get the ball rolling no question about it.

Go ahead man, I'm sure other people would be interested to read that too.

(02-07-2017 07:36 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  ... I could give you MY structure that I developed for myself, but it might not work for you. You might not even remember it. It's best if you created your own structure -- it doesn't have to be perfect. Just something that YOU can remember and adapt easily. Then tweak it over time based on your experience, both successes and failures.

That's pretty much what I've been doing. As I said 1-on-1 I'm fine, it's only in group situations I get quiet without much to say.

But the advice in this thread has helped tremendously, I will definitely implement it.

Post: #21

Here's what I know about verbal game and vibing with groups.

Vibing with groups

This is the only word I know that describes what I mean. OK so just like I said earlier the whole point of those silly backs and forths about pretty much nothing is fun. This is it. Usually that's what group of people do when they go out to hangout together over some booze. They don't wanna exchange information that much. They just want to let loose. So even if the conversation doesn't make sense from logical standpoint it makes perfect sense from the fun standpoint.

Of course the fun/facts ratio is never 100%/0% cause topics and vibe, and thus emotions, come in waves. However the ratio of an interesting conversation is always geared more towards pure fun and less towards pure facts.

It's always better to turn factual conversation into fun one than the other way around. To go from facts to fun all you have to do is make fun of facts (see make it fun point below). If done right people will enjoy it and nobody will complain. However when people are vibing at the moment and you try to go logic then you kill it. Basically, they're having vibrant conversation and emotions are going up and up from from talking stupid shit. Then throw some logic to the mix you snip it cause it doesn't fit the context of the conversation. It's like asking a girl about math problem right when you're about to kiss her. It's the same thing. Wrong place wrong time.

That's the basic premise of vibing. To have a good time. This is the why. Now on to the how to...

Handling group of people

Joining the conversation is done best when you go in with something relevant to what they are talking about. Even if you're not interested in that topic this is the chance to actually get in. You can always change topics later.

Once you're in include everybody as you speak. Do not ignore lame guys or ugly girls. Be cool with everybody and give them all equal amount of your attention. The quality of that attention depends on you though.

To make it fun you use classic attraction techniques in game. They spike emotions very well.

- You can misinterpret what they're saying to give it completely different meaning. Ex.. she asks about the color of your shirt, you say 'yeah i know we don't fit each other'. The context is changed cause didn't mean that.

- You can use cold reads, which is telling someone they are this or that, they look/seem/sound like xyz, etc. Completely made up shit. A girl wears red clothes she's high tempered bad wife etc.

- You can use so called future projections. It's when you describe some ridiculous scenario of you and her/them together, the more irrational the better. Ex, "you seem rich, good, let's get married in Vegas, I just wanna take advantage of and dump you after one week and take your half, don't worry I'll leave you our dog..."

- You can use push/pull by appreciating and disapproving something, back and forth. Just that one alone is sometimes enough.

- You can disqualify yourself by stating why you're bad person, emotionally unavailable, distant, asshole, etc. You're removing yourself as out of the equation which is also misinterpretation cause you do it first, before she tells you that.

- You can use roleplays. Make someone your little sister, personal assistant, best friend forever, bad/good girl, angel and devil, bad influence, etc.

- You can use throwback humor. It's very popular thing to do, very often people bring back good punchlines previously said when it might fit very well to the context of the current conversation.

To make it even more exciting pull people nearby into your interaction. Just ask that person a question about something relevant to what you're talking about with your group or throw some relevant statement to engage. Ex..
- blablabla.. hey.. quick question, have you ever xyz?
- blablabla.. hey, you look like you know xyz, listen, blablabla..
This is also how merging groups is done. Very useful thing to do.

In order to avoid overdoing things be unpredictable and contrasting with the way you express yourself. Stay with the range of being normal of course but stay aware whether you 'pushing the same button for too long' so to speak. When you're too negative and mean in general it gets boring and repetitive. Same with being too positive and nice. Keep switching it up. After some time when you get better with groups of people you will be like that automatically. Not because you will learn something amazing but simply because you will feel comfortable expressing what YOU think. I'm sure there are things you like and dislike but you gotta allow yourself to let it out.

There are 2 ways to hold a conversation. Playing the judge (when you talk way less) or running she show (when you run your mouth).

Playing the judge is about listening, encouraging others to impress you and showing approval/disapproval. You don't really talk then, you mostly listen and steer the convo by asking questions. You tell others to tell you this or that. You ask others for their opinions. You encourage others to talk more about something you wanna hear about. Basically you are interested in something and lead that person to talk.

This is also good backup option when you feel like you have nothing to say. You simply shut up, hold eye contact and ask engaging questions. Using pauses amps it up as the person talking then feels like she needs to keep on talking more to fill out the silence. Ex..

- what do you think about xyz?
- blablabla..
- interesting, tell me more
- blablabla..
- aha
- blablabla..
- you know i don't think that way
- blablabla..
- what made you think so?
- blablabla..
- and what do YOU think? [point at other person]
- blablabla..
- yeah i feel like it too
- blablabla..
- i guess we're on the same page then
- blablabla..
- no
- blablabla..
- yes
- blablabla..
- why?
- blablabla..
- no way!
- blablabla..

The other way is running the show. This is harder cause you have to develop that flow when you can just talk and talk and talk. The points on make it fun help here cause this way you turn anything, even "i'm tired today", into something.

Verbal game in seduction and group dynamics

I'd recommend to approach socially. Do not hit on any girl from the get go. Approach the group. Ask a question or throw a statement. Again, anything relevant to them is the best choice here. However if you have something better then go with that. Opinion opener was popular for a reason. It's nonsexual. You ask it anyone. It's interesting. It gives good topic and leads to better ones.

Show some intent to avoid being viewed as a safe nice friend type of a guy. Now.. you do not have to hit on or be romantically interested in a girl to express your intent. You just have to express your sexual side in general, by topic you touch on, by misinterpreting things they say, by breaking touch barrier, by being sexy and spraying it around, not aiming it at one specific person.

Once you're in start screening. Talk 'get you know you' stuff. Ex..
Where are you from >> Where do you live? Far away? Alone, roommates, family?
What do you do >> When you work? Which days? Shifts? How busy week?
Who do you know >> Who are you here with? How many friends? What occasion?
What are you doing today/tonight? >> What are you doing later? Tomorrow? This week?
What do you like to do? >> What we can do together?

Then figure out which girls are available/taken. Do not ask them about it directly. Be smart and figure it out. Point at some lame guy and tell a girl he's perfect boyfriend for her. If you want A girl, tell B girl that your friend like her (A girl) and see how B girl reacts to that.

Once you know what's up with them it's time to make a decision how to play further and what to do next. Now when you pick a girl you know what you're get yourself into.

Post: #22

XXL bringing the quality as usual.





This Tyler video helped me a lot when I first started out. I still watch this video and always think about the Lil Wayne part. "Yeah, I'm the shit."

I'm an analytical guy so letting go of the logic part and "throwing sticks into the fire" wasn't easy.