Post: #26

(01-25-2017 06:48 AM)Vicious Wrote:  Had my first in mid-thirties, I could have waited more but I didn't even want to be one of those ancient dads that can't even throw you kid a baseball without getting back pains. There's also all the stuff you have to take care of when investing and remodeling a house (I don't recommend raising a family in apartment).

The biggest question is however at what age you're meeting a suitable mother to your children. That is by far the toughest task. Most guys are not going to be able to wait until they are 50 and then land a woman in her prime who's ready to have your kids and bring them up properly.

This is great advice, too many guys on here think getting older is a piece of cake and you can still pull prime chicks.

The earlier you have kids, the better.

Post: #27

(01-25-2017 06:48 AM)Vicious Wrote:  The biggest question is however at what age you're meeting a suitable mother to your children. That is by far the toughest task. Most guys are not going to be able to wait until they are 50 and then land a woman in her prime who's ready to have your kids and bring them up properly.

This.

I'm lucky I'm Leonard's example of being fitter and better looking than most of these 25 year old schlubs, or I'd have no shot. I still might not have one in this country, but I don't care. That's why I'm traveling.

Post: #28

OP I'm 35 and I still feel like waiting just a few more years before marriage/family. Everyone is on their own timeline in this day and age, don't let family members, friends, people in online forums, or anyone else try to ram the one-size-fits-all pop psychology bullshit down your throat. Put them on Ignore. Stay single for now and work on yourself. Develop your masculinity, take risks, find a new hobby that involves the opposite sex, and a few new *good* male friends in your life.

Post: #29

I had my first at 29

My second and 31

and my 3rd at 36

Wait until your 36

Post: #30

There is no wrong or right about it. Do whatever the hell you want to do.

Post: #31

Having a kid isn't some casual choice. I wouldn't just pop one out randomly. Waiting until you're ready is the mark if a man who recognizes what goes into raising a kid.

Post: #32

Do it if you want to and can financially provide for the kid, and if need be the mother. This will depend on your circumstances.

Make sure you can get health insurance for the kid.

Realize that you're tied to the mom whether you stay together or not. Pick a woman you love, trust, and doesn't annoy you. Realize that sex may go down the drain after the kid. It happens.

Realize also that your kid could be pre-mature or born with a severe problem such as autism or cerebral palsy. You may end up with a child you're secretly ashamed of, and you'll feel bad about that. It happens all the time. It will turn your life around in so many ways and force you to sacrifice some things.

Are you emotionally and financially OK with being stuck with a kid for the rest of your life who might be a dud?

Realize that if you walk away from it, you're probably going to be emotionally fucked for the rest of your life. I'm friends with some very successful guys who walked out of their kids life at a young age. They all want to put a gun in their mouth. You stick with your kid, or condemn yourself to a life of regret.

If you aren't willing to put that little fucker ahead of yourself and do what it takes, don't do it. You can live a great and happy life with no kids whatsoever. The reason most men want kids anyway is because women project their biological urge to be mother's upon men. We don't need it, they do.

Post: #33

I'm in my mid 30s-- still childless-- and glad I didn't have one when I was younger as that would have prevented me from taking greater financial risks and lifestyle challenges (world travel) when younger.

My biggest consideration has been financial. I wanted to be in a position to invest both $ and time into my kids, and it seems best to wait until you've got some solid financial status. I'd say now I'm more or less ready to have a kid if the right woman comes along.

Post: #34

I second a lot of what has been said here. Bringing a child into the world and giving him/her the best upbringing in terms of social and financial stability is no mean feat. I learned a lot from my old man. He was typically red pill (still is) and showed me the importance of the patriarchal structure. Coming from an Irish Catholic background and growing up in a country that was dominated by men, both civil and clergy, I knew the concept of authority and the nuclear family which is very important for the cohesiveness of any society. It is the glue that holds nations together.

I'm 39, single and no kids. I'm living and working in a country (Belarus) which is predominantly Slavic Orthodox Christian. It is not lost on me the similarities between society here and that of Ireland in the 1980s and 90s; the patriarchy and strong sense of family. If I do decide to get married and have kids, it will be to someone to whom I have a connection with. Popping out sprogs like there's no tomorrow and not caring the world about your offspring would do them no favours. Nobody wants a deadbeat Dad. If I do decide to have kids, I will carry out my parenthood role either properly or not at all. I have seen the results of car crash marriages and drunken ONS and the end results are not so fun. All through my 20s and 30s, I had a blast but now I am thinking towards my own future. I might live the rest of my life single. Indeed, many of us here on RVF will probably end up alone but before you do, make sure you give it your best fucking shot and don't be the sod at 65; retired from work with a gold plated pension after 40 years slaving away in some cubicle in a job you hated, with a grinding 7-6 daily commute and grind and end up staring outside your kitchen window at your beamer parked in the spotless driveway all alone and wondering where the last 40 years of my life went to.

Post: #35

My parents had me around 40 due to getting advanced degrees and waiting for tenure in their careers. I think my dad was too old to do much physical stuff but I had sports and friends for that.

I wondered if I wanted kids at all so I took a job in college taking care of toddlers 7 days a week for two years. I lived with the family so got to see exactly what it's like to a full time caregiver.

My two biggest takeaways:
-I think most guys really have no idea what they're getting into. If they did they'd not have kids or limit it to one or two. Maybe even adopt.

-It's rather pointless to soul search and try to consider having kids unless you're actually in a long term relationship with someone you want to spend the rest of your life with AND/OR you have some iron clad legal agreement with concerning finances, caregiving, habitation, etc.

Sure I'd love to have kids one day. But I love travel. And I've never met a woman for whom I'd want to stay monogamous and devote half my income to. So unless I meet that woman kids are off the table.

Talking about kids without having the woman is putting the cart before the horse.

Post: #36

Now, let's take a visit down to the real world. How many of you have had children with women with children already? What was that experience like? How many woman over 25 have no kids? In the black community, that's ~50% or more. Should we import women from other nations? How is that adjustment?

Post: #37

How the hell did we all even get here when everyone has such stringent requirements for having kids?

You have to be more than 20 years past puberty (so all that time it's purely "recreational sex").
You have to have a big income and assets (what percentage of the population can boast that?).
The woman has to be a virgin hottie (after all that recreational sex).
The woman will "eventually come along" by magic, after you're already 20+ years past puberty and it hasn't "just happened" yet ("it will just happen" ).
You have to be "ready" (so at 18 you're ready to vote and go to war, but you need another 18 years before you can feed and wash a rug rat ).
You have to wait "just a few more years".
Every guy who's had them says wait longer.
That retarded SMV graph implies you should wait until 37 to even get married because that's ( 37 ) your prime time.

What the eff?

Perhaps we do need religion after all, just to force people to fuck for real on a reasonable time schedule.

I get the feeling a quite a few men are going to die alone and sad.

Post: #38

Phoenix, can you really in good faith tell your fellow man to just go "yolo" and pop out kids? That's what a lot of people in the hood do and it doesn't seem to work.

I do get the flipside of it, though.

Let's say this were about starting a business, building a website or learning game. Everyone would be like, "dude, there is no perfect time! Just do it, bro!"

I imagine the truth is somewhere in between and it will vary from man to man. Right now (I'm 28), if I knocked up my GF, I'd be so unbelievably fucked that it wouldn't be funny. I literally cannot afford a kid or a wife at the moment. It isn't just monetary, I'm just not at all anywhere near ready. You can say that you'll never be totally ready but there is a big difference between being ready and not knowing you are and just being wholly unprepared (which I am). Just not gonna happen for me for a while.

Post: #39

^ The point is though, you should be prepared, as should I and everyone else around our age. Ahmed, Abimbola, and Ntxawg (that's Hmong) all seem to manage much younger than that and they're rarely rolling in cash.

Indeed I've actually met dudes who accidentally knocked up a girl in their teens, who are kind of in an envious position now: they're mid thirties and their kids are already leaving home

(01-29-2017 09:24 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Phoenix, can you really in good faith tell your fellow man to just go "yolo" and pop out kids? That's what a lot of people in the hood do and it doesn't seem to work.

I don't know, did that post say that? Everything in that post has actually been said by members here though.

Although yes I suppose it technically does work if you live in rich & egalitarian countries like the west. Offloading your reproductive costs to everyone else sounds very much like a free lunch. I guess the only reason it doesn't exist in other cultures is because rather than being biologically lucrative it's actually deadly. But this discussion might verge away from being "game" and into "politics", and I have an oath for the year to avoid that.

Post: #40

I Know you didn't say that, but you seemed to imply it. Also, It's hard to draw cross-culture comparisons.

The cost of living in Vietnam and whateverthefuckistan (that's where Hmong guys and Ahmed are from respectively) Is wayyyyyy lower than where I'm from (NJ). I'd need to be pulling 2x-3x the amount I make currently before considering making little fortis clones.

Sure my parents had me in their early twenties, but they had my grandparents and great-grandparents on both sides helping out with daycare and my education. My parents are in enviable positions, but compared to their advantages I'm far behind when it comes to being able to pop out kids. They hit the prime of their careers during the golden era of easy money (90s). Their situation is simply very hard to emulate for someone like me. Had I knocked up a chick when i was 20 I'd probably be impoverished right now.

A lot of my friends who are having kids are waiting until around 33 to do so. I may do it sooner or later than that, but I'm simply not ready at this point.

Post: #41

Apart from all the good things others have said, the question largely depends on when you expect your death.

Personally, I was always a bit obsessed with the fact that I might die any day. And I was totally freaking out on the notion that I might die without a child. For me, having peace of mind in my life and in the hour of death was a good reason to become a young father.

Post: #42

I've heard that older fathers = raised chance of autism in child

Post: #43

(01-29-2017 03:57 PM)Maxzilla Wrote:  I've heard that older fathers = raised chance of autism in child

I read about that study also, but consider the elephant in the room, that older fathers tend to have older wives.

Stripping one variable from the other to do a study would be difficult.

Even if it were done, any scientist that attempted it could face losing their funding as it would require them to find older guys with younger wives, a no-no in fem-centric academia, and then the conclusion better not be that a younger wife mitigates the risks greatly, or their careers would also be in jeopardy.

There's more to these things than meets the eye.

Post: #44

(01-29-2017 09:10 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  How the hell did we all even get here when everyone has such stringent requirements for having kids?

You have to be more than 20 years past puberty (so all that time it's purely "recreational sex").
You have to have a big income and assets (what percentage of the population can boast that?).
The woman has to be a virgin hottie (after all that recreational sex).
The woman will "eventually come along" by magic, after you're already 20+ years past puberty and it hasn't "just happened" yet ("it will just happen" ).
You have to be "ready" (so at 18 you're ready to vote and go to war, but you need another 18 years before you can feed and wash a rug rat ).
You have to wait "just a few more years".
Every guy who's had them says wait longer.
That retarded SMV graph implies you should wait until 37 to even get married because that's ( 37 ) your prime time.

What the eff?

Perhaps we do need religion after all, just to force people to fuck for real on a reasonable time schedule.

I get the feeling a quite a few men are going to die alone and sad.

Phoenix this is a great post, some of which I agree with, some that I don't. So I kind of did what you described here. I knocked up my gf when I was 26. I was in my last year of professional school so it most certainly wasn't the right time for me that's for sure. I was for sure in shock and really scared but I really liked the chick i was with and I was planning on getting married to her anyway so ok, sometimes things don't go in the order they're supposed to. We got married and i eventually had 3 more kids with her.

We were married for 20 years before we got divorced last year. It. Was. Not. Easy, those 20 years that is for sure. It was a major league sacrifice. I cannot possibly overstate that. Doing the things you need to do to raise well adjusted children and trying to keep your modern day wife happy at the same time is a gargantuan task. The financial sacrifices are enormous. If I had remained single, I would easily be living a baller, travel the world, work only when I want to lifestyle now. The emotional sacrifices of family life are not for the weak. I haven't even touched on dealing with extended family and in laws either, many of whom are conspiring behind your back to destroy your family. Mostly out of jealousy.

The modern culture of the west is not in any way conducive to raising healthy families. For many years, I felt as if I was trying to swim up Niagara Falls while trying to minimize the effects of outside cultural forces. Remember, I got started 20 years ago when things were supposedly a little better culturally. It was hard then. Today with the way the culture has degenerated, oh man I see so many younger men and women with kids that I talk to really struggling to keep their kids under control.

So Phoenix is right that at some point in time you just have to take the plunge as conditions will never be perfect and you'll end up waiting for ever if you expect perfection. At the same time though, due to the state of affairs in the culture today, I believe that much more planning is required to avoid serious problems. You don't have the luxury of living in a society where strong family life is encouraged and supported and you will feel like your swimming against a very strong and destructive current. As such, you don't have the luxury of winging it like you could have in a stronger, more religious environment. There is no cultural safety net anymore.

There were many times I felt utterly alone in my family life, like it was me against the world. Now I kept fighting for many years and even though I am now divorced, my kids are almost all adults now and they love and respect what I did and are starting to understand what I was up against. In the end, given everything I went through, I have no regrets and wouldn't trade my experience because now that I'm almost done, I live my life with a great sense of accomplishment, wisdom and fearlessness. The young chicks I meet these days are dying to be led by men with these qualities (feminism ain't doing it for them). I think one has to know thyself first (you need to know if a family is even what you want), plan as best as possible, find the best chick you can find to do this with and understand that it will be the most rewarding but most difficult thing you will do in your life.

Post: #45

(01-21-2017 05:55 PM)Realbor Wrote:  Im 28 at the moment, given the fact Ive wasted so much time being in social isolation and in a semi-depressed state makes me wanna have some years of just "fooling around" and trying different girls before I decide to settle with one and make a family.

It feels like u get shamed for this in society, everyone seems to think u should create a family in your mid twenties or at latest early thirties.

I feel like I wanna wait til atleast Im like 36 or something, I just dont feel "mature" or experienced enough to be able to be a really good father yet, not enough wisdom etc.

What are your guys thoughts about this?

Nope, I think if anything it's much wronger for a young guy to become a father when he isn't steady or ready to take on the responsibility, and forces the taxpayers to pick up the tab for his kid. Just look at any American welfare ghetto to see the results of 13 year old men and women becoming fathers and baby mommas when they have no jobs, no skills, no life experiences, and no future prospects.

Plus biologically if men are in good health, they can still procreate way past their 60s or older; biologically older, established men marrying younger women and providing for them and their children is much more culturally and historically normal than 20 year olds whose only source of income is a part-time Burger King gig having kids and marrying.

For the record, in some older cultures men did marry earlier, but this was in part because men were actually men in those days and ages and the average 18 year old man was probably more emotionally and personally skilled and competent than the average 30 year old man today is; for most of human history 'adulthood' was measured by one's actual level of maturity and personal competence, not just a physical age. Today you have to demonstrate more competence to get a driver's license than you do to pop out a kid, and pretty much any beta chump other than maybe "Chris Chan" can find some fat bitch desperate enough to fuck them and make a baby with them.

In some Native American cultures for example, a young man wasn't even allowed to court a woman unless he had proven his manhood in hunting or on the battlefield.

Pretty much every successful civilization in human history would be rolling in their graves if they knew that we'd created a consumerist society where a SJW beta male is able to mate and reproduce children despite being less competent and masculine as an adult, than the average pre-teen was in a society like ancient Sparta.

Post: #46

Also it's worth noting how hypocritical modern Western society is in general:

*If a guy is over 30 and doesn't feel like shaking up and having a kid he needs to be shamed and told to 'grow up'.

*But say that a single woman over 30 should get married and have kids, and some nutjobs will scream and say you're a 'backward misogynist pig who just wants to force women back into the kitchen', rolfmao

Just another example of how fucked up society is today.