Post: #26

(08-19-2011 03:39 PM)Moma Wrote:  However, there is something that changes in the mind and behaviour of a lizard that sees a guy as an ATM machine.

The frame is not, "I'll pay you for sex." The frame is, "I'll reward you for good behavior." She must perform first.

This is a subtle shift in frame.

Buying dinner HOPING to get laid is wrong. Taking a girl out after the booty has been given up and proven to be on point...That's what I do.

Plus, it's fun to slip a girl a $20 after turning her out. It makes her feel like a CHEAP whore. Next time you fun, she'll be somewhat degraded. Then you can do even more awesome things with/to her.

There are a lot of ways to use money to psychologically dominate a woman. Keep an open mind....

Post: #27

(08-19-2011 03:48 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(08-19-2011 03:39 PM)Moma Wrote:  However, there is something that changes in the mind and behaviour of a lizard that sees a guy as an ATM machine.

The frame is not, "I'll pay you for sex." The frame is, "I'll reward you for good behavior." She must perform first.

This is a subtle shift in frame.

Buying dinner HOPING to get laid is wrong. Taking a girl out after the booty has been given up and proven to be on point...That's what I do.

Plus, it's fun to slip a girl a $20 after turning her out. It makes her feel like a CHEAP whore. Next time you fun, she'll be somewhat degraded. Then you can do even more awesome things with/to her.

There are a lot of ways to use money to psychologically dominate a woman. Keep an open mind....

I see your point mike,but why you take a women out to eat after you already banged ill never understand,Unless you want her in rotation.But even then i wouldn't do it.After sex i really don't want much to do with these girls.

Post: #28

I see your point mike,but why you take a women out to eat after you already banged ill never understand,Unless you want her in rotation.But even then i wouldn't do it.After sex i really don't want much to do with these girls.
[/quote]

Wonderful news. Get paid!

Post: #29

(08-19-2011 03:14 PM)Moma Wrote:  Principles are very important. Whether it is 1 dollar or 1000 dollars, it's not the money, it's the principal. It sounds like there is some sort of condone of any action in the name of ass. I don't care if it's Moscow's finest or Quasimodo's twin sister but principles count for everything.

I still think I made the right play.
But I should have made a Pusscrook move and lured her into my labyrinth and turned it out for business.
Oh well, we live and we learn.

Fcuk pride? Without pride/self respect, then ANYTHING goes. It's not the money, it's the principle.

I'm no seasoned veteran, but I totally agree. Principles will cost you a good number of notches (I know), but you'll be able to look at yourself in the mirror later. Respecting yourself is the most important thing you need to strive for in life.

Personally, I wouldn't have given her the money either. I'm not going to pay for a chick to fuck me. If she lived really far away, I'd split the bill, but she'd have to be a girl I was investing in, not just a one-shot deal.

I wouldn't go around asking if you should or shouldn't do something for a girl. This forum is about acquiring notches, which is really a bit of a science as it would seem. Science doesn't dictate morals, it isn't going to tell you what you "should" do. Only you know how to live a life according to your principles. No one else can help you with that.

You did what you wanted to do at the time. Be comfortable with that.

Post: #30

(08-19-2011 03:39 PM)Moma Wrote:  Game is getting pussy on terms one can live with.

Yes.

(08-19-2011 03:39 PM)Moma Wrote:  However, there is something that changes in the mind and behaviour of a lizard that sees a guy as an ATM machine.

Also: There is something that changes in the mind and behaviour of a man that sees himself as an ATM machine.

Post: #31

(08-19-2011 03:14 PM)Moma Wrote:  Principles are very important. Whether it is 1 dollar or 1000 dollars, it's not the money, it's the principal.

Moma,

I don't understand this whole "principal" thing?

What you accomplish? I know you lost some pussy, but what did you gain ?

Is your pride stronger? Do you have more respect for yourself?

Isn't your self respect worth a lot more then 10 bucks?

Post: #32

(08-19-2011 04:58 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-19-2011 03:14 PM)Moma Wrote:  Principles are very important. Whether it is 1 dollar or 1000 dollars, it's not the money, it's the principal.

Moma,

I don't understand this whole "principal" thing?

What you accomplish? I know you lost some pussy, but what did you gain ?

Is your pride stronger? Do you have more respect for yourself?

Isn't your self respect worth a lot more then 10 bucks?

I can relate to what he's saying. He probably didn't want this bitch thinking he was some sort of a pushover and therefore he opted to not pay the bitch the 10 dollars in gas. Now, on the other hand, had he negotiated the "deal" , I am sure she would have probably walked the next time around (she lives 10 minutes away)after being fucked senseless for that 10 dollars in gas. I think he will get it back and fuck her right thru a mattress for this momentary lapse in gaming the bitch just right in the first place.

Post: #33

(08-19-2011 04:06 PM)Pusscrook Wrote:  I see your point mike,but why you take a women out to eat after you already banged ill never understand,Unless you want her in rotation.But even then i wouldn't do it.After sex i really don't want much to do with these girls.

All to the good. I work a lot, and it is more efficient for me to have a rotation of 2-3 girls rather than go for a lot of ONS's. Often my work has me at the office until 9 or 10. A girl in the rotation will come over, give up the booty multiple times (and once in the morning, before coffee), because she knows I'll take her out on a nice date when time allows.

Not knocking your view of women at one-night lays. That may make sense for you. It just doesn't make much sense for me.

I've tried it both ways, and I get more orgasms (after spending less time and money, on average) doing it my way. Though of course I'm giving up on variety....

#Tradeoffs

Post: #34

(08-19-2011 11:04 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  You already know what I would do.

I would have flipped her a $20.

Because I straight up don't give a f*ck.

This is a real player move.

If giving $10 to a girl after she's come over to your house and drained your dick is an issue for you, then step your paper game up.

Real players like G flip her a $20, maybe even a $50 if she came with that "good good".

I think Weezy says it in the Hustle Hard remix, "if she fuck me right, then she's shopping".

You let the girl come over, do what she does, then the $10 or whatever is her reward for a job well done, what she uses that $10 on -- gas, tampons, grits, Tilt -- is irrelevant.

Post: #35

I think some cats are beings a little hard on Moma the Lizard Man.

I mean he made a snap decision based on his own set of player principles. The problem a lot of guys have--especially those who are competent in game but aren't that seasoned yet--is that they game based on the "rules" some other guy has set for him. An experienced player adjusts those laws to his own lifestyle, cash flow, preferences, game strengths, et cetera.

Seven times out of ten, a girl like this isn't just some penniless girl with a "feminine profession." She's an entitled bitch who, accustomed to getting shit from men, got angry that she was about to give out some pussy for nothing in return--the type who doesn't even bring her wallet half the time because, "she doesn't need it." She was merely trying to wring something out at the last minute: like the desperate line of sausage standing outside of the club at closing time and hollering at the low-hanging fruit going home. If it couldn't be dinner or drinks, it might as well be some last-minute gas money. Anything.

If this girl would have backed down and come over anyway, we would be giving Lizard Man props because he didn't fall for that gold-digging stratagem. If I had to pick one bet to place over and over again, without adjusting for conditions on the ground, it would probably be Moma's choice. More times than not, you're going to win not caving into a woman's demands for money, favors, or gifts.

In this case, Moma's gamble may have been less nuanced than it could have been, but it's grounded in solid player fundamentals. In the long run, he's going to get further with that shit.

Post: #36

I agree with Tuth, everyone has different principles... and while I would have done differently myself, you can't hate on him for standing by his own set.

For me, it's all about getting the notch and keeping my mental/financial/time investment to a minimum for each lay. But even I have standards.

Post: #37

just say you'll lend it to her.

seriously though, if you bang her right and you decide to give her the 10 bucks, it should be the first & last ten bucks you need to give her.

Post: #38

(08-20-2011 12:43 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  I think some cats are beings a little hard on Moma the Lizard Man.

I don't. He asked if he made the right move, and the answer is an astounding, "no!".

(08-20-2011 12:43 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  Seven times out of ten, a girl like this isn't just some penniless girl with a "feminine profession." She's an entitled bitch who, accustomed to getting shit from men, got angry that she was about to give out some pussy for nothing in return--the type who doesn't even bring her wallet half the time because, "she doesn't need it." She was merely trying to wring something out at the last minute: like the desperate line of sausage standing outside of the club at closing time and hollering at the low-hanging fruit going home. If it couldn't be dinner or drinks, it might as well be some last-minute gas money. Anything.

If the girl wants to put a dude in a trick bag, she'll find a way to do it on a much greater scale than gas money. The dude had already taken her out to dinner right? So she goes from a nice dinner to gas money?

(08-20-2011 12:43 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  In this case, Moma's gamble may have been less nuanced than it could have been, but it's grounded in solid player fundamentals. In the long run, he's going to get further with that shit.

Refusing to quench some chick's thirst when she's invested absolutely nothing in you is solid player fundamentals.

Refusing to help a broke bitch who's about to use her last fumes of gas to get over to your house to give you some pussy all in the name of "I'm alpha, I'm not going to break bread" is not.

Post: #39

Over 10 dollars? Nigga are you for real?

Im with Giovonny and G manifesto on this one.

One is that i think is completely normal for her to ask you for 10 dollars for the gas, i had one girl asking me the same thing before and we still great friends till today, and i cant remember her asking me for money again (actually it was 20 pounds but i knew her for yrs). And last year i also spent around 15 dollars for a girl who was coming to see me from another city. For a guy that has travelled to many countries, this is pretty sad, i doubt that girl will come see you again. Whats dot again, i didnt get it, what country you in?

And you asked pusscrook if he was making 100k per week and could buy a ticket of 1000 dollars for a girl to come see him,what would he do, in my case, if she was a really bad bitch, yes, i would pay for the ticket. So you want to be making mad paper and not spend a penny with a bitch? Where you gonna spend your money on? Girls are part of the package called "having fun", nothing wrong with spending few dollars on them, specially when you aint a broke one.

Basically a player goal is to fuck them and throw them away, specially when you know they are just with you for the money. I know cats who spend 6000 dollars in one night by just chilling with their homies, buying drinks and shit like that and you wouldnt spend 10 dollars for a guaranteed fuck? This is being over cheap.

I cant believe that shit, oh my god, some guys on here lmao.

Post: #40

(08-20-2011 12:43 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  I think some cats are beings a little hard on Moma the Lizard Man.

I mean he made a snap decision based on his own set of player principles. The problem a lot of guys have--especially those who are competent in game but aren't that seasoned yet--is that they game based on the "rules" some other guy has set for him. An experienced player adjusts those laws to his own lifestyle, cash flow, preferences, game strengths, et cetera.

Seven times out of ten, a girl like this isn't just some penniless girl with a "feminine profession." She's an entitled bitch who, accustomed to getting shit from men, got angry that she was about to give out some pussy for nothing in return--the type who doesn't even bring her wallet half the time because, "she doesn't need it." She was merely trying to wring something out at the last minute: like the desperate line of sausage standing outside of the club at closing time and hollering at the low-hanging fruit going home. If it couldn't be dinner or drinks, it might as well be some last-minute gas money. Anything.

If this girl would have backed down and come over anyway, we would be giving Lizard Man props because he didn't fall for that gold-digging stratagem. If I had to pick one bet to place over and over again, without adjusting for conditions on the ground, it would probably be Moma's choice. More times than not, you're going to win not caving into a woman's demands for money, favors, or gifts.

In this case, Moma's gamble may have been less nuanced than it could have been, but it's grounded in solid player fundamentals. In the long run, he's going to get further with that shit.

Entitled bitch? Gold digger?

We are talking about 1O dollars!

Maybe she is a college student. Maybe she is a single mom. Maybe she is just poor and literally didn't have gas money. When I was in college 10 bucks was alot of money. I could eat for a week with 10 bucks. Sometimes I had to ask friends and family to borrow a 10 or 20 for gas or food. I would always pay them back in a week or 2.

My point is that sometimes are friends just need to borrow a few bucks. Its not that big of a deal. Its doesn't mean they are bad people or entitled or gold digging. I loan my friends money all the time. If a young college girl I was fucking asked me for a 10 for gas I wouldn't think twice about it. I know she will pay me back sexually or by cooking for me or picking up the tab next time. I would use that 10 bucks she "owes" me as negotiating leverage to make her do what I wanted.

What is 10 bucks among buddies (fuck buddies)

Guys will fly half way around the world to chase girls but now 10 bucks is a big deal?

10 bucks is a grain of sand compared to my self-respect. My pride is worth alot more then that. I give 10 bucks to homeless bums and I know they will spend it on booze or drugs.

And, Moma said he already paid for the first date. Now she is on her way over to bang and all the sudden pride becomes a factor. Seems silly to me?

Tut,

I will ask you the same question I asked Moma...What did he gain from this?

Is his pride stronger? Does he have more respect for himself for doing this?

Isn't self-respect worth alot more then 10 bucks?

I would feel stupid if I gave a girl 100 or 1000, but 10 !?

That would actually help my "cost per notch" average.

At the end of the discussion. I guess every man has to act according to his own principals

Post: #41

(08-20-2011 01:18 PM)Gmac Wrote:  For me, it's all about getting the notch and keeping my mental/financial/time investment to a minimum for each lay.

You are all about getting the notch and keeping your financial investment to a minimum.

Nice. Me too.

What would you have done in this case? Paid the 10 bucks or not?

Post: #42

(08-20-2011 02:54 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-20-2011 01:18 PM)Gmac Wrote:  For me, it's all about getting the notch and keeping my mental/financial/time investment to a minimum for each lay.

You are all about getting the notch and keeping your financial investment to a minimum.

Nice. Me too.

What would you have done in this case? Paid the 10 bucks or not?

G,
for him the money is not the issue. He clearly states that . He has a strategy and I bet you he will get that pussy back.

Post: #43

I'd send a car for her and tell her she's doing my laundry and making me breakfast...

I don't let nominal logistics stand in the way of my goal.

Post: #44

Let me also add that a game check is needed on taking a girl who doesn't really mean anything to you yet out to dinner.

Post: #45

(08-20-2011 02:54 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-20-2011 01:18 PM)Gmac Wrote:  For me, it's all about getting the notch and keeping my mental/financial/time investment to a minimum for each lay.

You are all about getting the notch and keeping your financial investment to a minimum.

Nice. Me too.

What would you have done in this case? Paid the 10 bucks or not?

I would have paid it because that is cheaper than taking her out for a date/drinks. Out of the potential scenarios...

• Refuse to pay and get no pussy, never see her again and lose any financial/time/mental investment you put into her
• Refuse to pay, meet up with her some other time and pay well more than $10 between the date/transportation
• Pay the $10 and beat the pussy up that night

Option #3 is the best to me, and the highest probability of a lay that night for the least overall investment.

This is how I approach most of my prospects. There are too many girls for me to weed through so I can't afford to waste time or money on my budget.

Post: #46

(08-20-2011 02:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I will ask you the same question I asked Moma...What did he gain from this? Is his pride stronger? Does he have more respect for himself for doing this?

He hasn't necessarily "gained" anything. He prevented a loss...of his self-respect.

(08-20-2011 02:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Isn't self-respect worth alot more then 10 bucks?

Yes, it's very valuable. That why he refuses to part with any amount of money to pay for sex. The dollar amount of the transaction is irrelevant: it's a matter of principle.

(08-20-2011 02:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I would feel stupid if I gave a girl 100 or 1000, but 10 !?

The number of zeroes doesn't matter. Money is money.

Post: #47

(08-21-2011 11:00 AM)CupCake Wrote:  Yes, it's very valuable. That why he refuses to part with any amount of money to pay for sex. The dollar amount of the transaction is irrelevant: it's a matter of principle.

Wasn't paying for dinner, paying for sex?

He didn't pay for her meal because she was hungry.

Post: #48

(08-20-2011 02:17 PM)pitt Wrote:  i doubt that girl will come see you again.

My guess is the story will likely be somehow he manages to save it and he gets the ass and I won't believe it.

He doesn't have the girl on lock enough for that, after all, all he's done is what every other typical simp in the game has done, which is treated the girl to a meal. Yet, on some contradictory principle bullshit, a little cash so the girl can get home after he's busted on her ass is a problem.

Post: #49

Probably would have shelled out the $10 dollars. To each their own

Post: #50

(08-21-2011 11:00 AM)CupCake Wrote:  

(08-20-2011 02:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I will ask you the same question I asked Moma...What did he gain from this? Is his pride stronger? Does he have more respect for himself for doing this?

He hasn't necessarily "gained" anything. He prevented a loss...of his self-respect.

(08-20-2011 02:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Isn't self-respect worth alot more then 10 bucks?

Yes, it's very valuable. That why he refuses to part with any amount of money to pay for sex. The dollar amount of the transaction is irrelevant: it's a matter of principle.

(08-20-2011 02:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I would feel stupid if I gave a girl 100 or 1000, but 10 !?

The number of zeroes doesn't matter. Money is money.

I agree with the notion of preserving whatever your core principles are. In this case, Moma doesn't want to be seen as an ATM machine, even if it is a lousy $10. That said, I probably would have shelled the cash myself, but re-framed the money transfer in a way that made me comfortable.

Like I mentioned before, I might have haggled the bitch down or sexually teased her on the phone that I was "going to make her work for those $10." I might have turned this into a role-playing scenario. "Dress slutty," is a surprisingly effective line.