Post: #226

What is Trump's next move? China is now planning to impose tariffs on $50 billion of U.S. exports.

Quote:China hit back at the United States on Wednesday with proposed tariffs on $50 billion worth of American soybeans, cars, chemicals and other goods, in a move likely to stoke fears that the countries’ escalating confrontation could become an all-out trade war.

Moving with unusual speed, Chinese officials outlined plans to make it more costly to import 106 types of American goods into China. They are intended to hit the United States square in the farm belt — a major section of President Trump’s political support but also a major supplier of what China stocks in its supermarkets.

Beijing’s plan to institute new tariffs was announced just hours after the Trump administration detailed its own protections on a similar value of Chinese-made aircraft parts, cars and car parts, televisions, steel and much more. Following a previous round of tit-for-tat tariffs unveiled over the past few days, the new measures have sparked concerns that the dispute could widen further, hurting jobs and growth in both countries.

Investors drove financial markets lower over the prospect that the two sides were not yet done fighting.

“China has never succumbed to external pressure,” Zhu Guangyao, vice minister of finance, said at a news briefing on Wednesday. He added, “External pressure will only make the Chinese people more focused on economic development.”
....
China’s proposed new tariffs cover a significant chunk of what it buys from the United States. The protections on the $50 billion of goods announced on Wednesday, together with those on the $3 billion worth of products that Beijing unveiled earlier this week in retaliation for American tariffs on global steel imports, account for about a third of China’s American imports.

By contrast, because the United States imports significantly more from China, tariffs on the same amount of products make up roughly one-ninth of its Chinese imports. That gives the United States more room to find other Chinese products to target.

Since the U.S. imports far more from China than China imports from the U.S., it would appear we have the advantage. However, Trump is politically more vulnerable than Xi, and the Chinese can focus on products coming out of swing states or districts that are vulnerable in the November elections. And of course the upcoming Trump-Kim nuclear negotiations are a Pandora's Box as well. The Chinese can also make some noise about dumping their Treasury securities, and give even more problems to U.S. companies selling in China to the China market.

Post: #227

I'm cross-posting this of mine post from the main Trump thread, as it is probably more relevant here and might generate some discussion, giving that this is all speculation of mine. Some disagreement about what I've stated would be valuable.

(04-10-2018 05:21 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 04:40 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 03:52 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 08:55 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

< Better wait for the fine print.

"Yes - we cut. From 140% tariffs to 139.5%. Final offer!"

Absolutely. I won't be holding my breathe on this one.

There's going to be a lot of back and forth before anything substantial is accomplished.

That being said, it's definitely a step in the right direction. The Chinese pretending to be interesting in increasing the fairness of their tariffs shows that Trump's counter-tariffs are creating some sting in the Orient.

If they were really in a superior bargaining position, they wouldn't be bothering to make promises that they won't keep.

There is going to be an aggressive ten year trade war where the Chinese try every trick in the book to get everything they want without giving an inch themselves.

They'll deploy the old "making obscure promises in exchange for very specific concessions" trick, which Trump won't fall for, because he's a business man who knows how to negotiate.

Then they'll reduce the official tariffs and barriers to entry, while ramping up the unofficial costs of buying foreign goods and finding every excuse to not actually allow foreign entities to actually enter the Chinese marketplace on better terms.

All of this will be interspersed with little sides games. Trade conferences designed to get our team to make statements of their intention to reach a workable agreement that will used later in attempts to shame them into making concessions for free. Consistent harassment of foreign businesses in various industries. Fucking with visa requirements for those visiting and working in China.

Finally, they'll go full-bore on a final stubborn attempt to crush our spirits, while trying to pretend that this final push is just the beginning. This will conclude with a period of time where they simply take their ball and go home, which won't last longer than it takes for virtually every Chinese industry to intensely lobby their leaders to give in and get the money train moving again.

They'll finally give in and agree to trade conditions that are somewhat closer to fair, but hardly what they should be. Then, they'll sulk and wait for the first opportunity to start moving the goalpost back in the other direction again.

This battle is currently far from over. The only way to win is for Western nations, led by the USA to establish a culture of nation first priorities, where community and family is the most meaningful thing to people and trips to Walmart to buy plastic junk becomes a rarity, not because of any boycott, but because people simply prefer to spent their money on goods and services that they really want and that are worth having in a kind of quality that is going to last, rather than quibbling over a 60 cent price difference.

Post: #228

< The main problem with this is that the globalists WANT CHINA TO BE THE MANUFACTURING CENTER OF THE WORLD. They decided for the collective Chinese people to have all the main factories.

I listened to enough CEOs who said clearly that they were pressured from above to transfer production to China despite making it clear to the board that they could produce everything in the West about as cheap as in China (in some instances it is true) - all without the risk of having their technology stolen.

The trade policy is lopsided because it is that way by design. Trump won't change things dramatically - at best some minor progress will be made, though not much. And China has a ton of policies which are uttery nationalistic and they are not moving an inch in that respect.

An example was the opening of the communist Eastern Europe and Soviet Union. It was a total disaster of unparalleled proportions. Entire industries were sold off for a pittance and companies in the West barged in, bought off competitors and then immediately closed the companies. Nothing like that ever happened in China and China was far more backwards than EE/FSU in 1990.

So all of that supposed trade war is just useless talk - China will become the next Superpower taking over from the US.



Actually China is somewhat of a second hope against the globalist rule. It's possible that they together with Japan and Korea might one day oppose the usury globalists. Aside from an Alien invasion that is literally one of the two ways out I see in our times.

Post: #229

Post: #230

....



Don't make me pluck your eye out when we meet up for beer.

Post: #231

(04-10-2018 02:14 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Actually China is somewhat of a second hope against the globalist rule. It's possible that they together with Japan and Korea might one day oppose the usury globalists. Aside from an Alien invasion that is literally one of the two ways out I see in our times.

Zel, this seems very improbable to me, based on what I know about Asia.

Can you tell me more about how you see this coming about?

Post: #232

(04-10-2018 03:11 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-10-2018 02:14 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Actually China is somewhat of a second hope against the globalist rule. It's possible that they together with Japan and Korea might one day oppose the usury globalists. Aside from an Alien invasion that is literally one of the two ways out I see in our times.

Zel, this seems very improbable to me, based on what I know about Asia.

Can you tell me more about how you see this coming about?

Simple - while the globalists believe that the Chinese are obedient collective workers/consumers, similarly to the Japanese - they still have their traditional culture intact to some degree, they also have still their women feminine and don't follow the latest SJW-globo-homo trends despite some trying. They also fight for their countries along a nationalistic bent.

My hope is that their still nationalistic elite one day might turn on the globalist powers if they have grown powerful enough, but we will see what happens.

Post: #233

I was more curious about why you see groups that have been at each other's throats since before the founding of the US joining forces.

Post: #234

(04-10-2018 04:43 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  I was more curious about why you see groups that have been at each other's throats since before the founding of the US joining forces.

I could see it happening. This is hypothetical, but still possible.

It all goes back to the equation diversity+proximity=war. Diversity and proximity are relative, not absolute. Russia and Poland have been at each other's throats for a long time as well. But if Western Europe and everything that surrounds those two countries is an Islamic shithole trying to destroy them, I can see setting aside differences and the past for a while, albeit cautiously, happening. Same with East Asia. They see what is happening to the West.

Post: #235

Zel, so you think the elites in the West just made a bet that they could control China while they turned it into a superpower? Doesn't make sense - there is little evidence from their history that they would do the bidding of the globalists, and their extreme economic nationalism is far from compatible either.

Post: #236

I actually don't think China is the last hope against any globalist government. The people here are already trained to submit to massive subversion from within by groups that destabilize and slaughter their family units (CCP, anyone?) They parrot whatever the people up top say, without much in the way of synthesis or input. If the top were to change, they'd just parrot what the new regime say and move on like nothing happened.

They would just "chabuduo" (good enough) and get back to whatever work they are commanded to get up to. The government speaks "big" rhetoric, but the average person here is not some fiery patriot ready to die and defend their way of life. Just get into a political discussion with a close Chinese friend and you'll see what I'm talking about. Ask them if they think something is "wrong" with the decisions of the government and you'll get something along the lines of, "It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, this is simply the way it is and we can do nothing about it because we are powerless."

This is not the attitude of a person who is willing to stand against subversion in their own nation.

Post: #237

Can kinda tell who here has spent a lot of time in Asia and who hasn't.

Post: #238

China becomes more and more like USA each passing year economically. More credit cards, more specious loans and more Western-style fiat quackery. The cost of living continuously hikes and hikes in tier-1 cities at rates that are not sustainable.

This hardly points in the direction of a country seeking to do things differently. I'm not saying they "should" do things differently, but expecting them to take a stand against the system that they're willingly buying into and spreading is probably going to end with disappointment.

Post: #239

(04-11-2018 12:40 AM)Fortis Wrote:  China becomes more and more like USA each passing year economically. More credit cards, more specious loans and more Western-style fiat quackery. The cost of living continuously hikes and hikes in tier-1 cities at rates that are not sustainable.

This hardly points in the direction of a country seeking to do things differently. I'm not saying they "should" do things differently, but expecting them to take a stand against the system that they're willingly buying into and spreading is probably going to end with disappointment.

Look - if anyone doubts that the globalists controlled both the West and THE FUCKING COMMUNISTS IN ENTIRETY since the beginning, then I cannot help you.

There is a ton of evidence put up by Stanford historian Anthony Sutton in multiple of his books. Add to it Carroll Quigley.

China just like the Soviet Union was easily controlled from the very top. The people don't care if the top person above seems to be his own boss and seems to be Chinese.

The power-dichotomy that we live under would become simply too apparent if they rolled out the system everywhere. Many countries might rebel - not the Chinese, but others especially in the West.

I simply said that I hope that the Chinese leadership in the distant future MIGHT betray the globalists. But I am not overly optimistic.

China goes the globo-homo route - the family and feminism will be ramped up in the next decades.

Be it as it may - I think that the mentor of Bill Clinton - Carroll Quigley who was the historian for the CFR and remained a history professor at Georgetown, and who reputedly trained the CIA/military high command in real history - that he is more correct with his perception of the world than the bullshit crap they are giving the serfs at schools and colleges (and in those idiotic history channel "documentaries"). For fuck's sake - they are even retconning the history being taught in the 1980s already.

Post: #240

^ I apologize if it appears as though I misinterpreted you, Zelcorpion. I am 100% in agreement with everything you just wrote there. I am very familiar with how the globalists use Communism to push a one-world government. I do think they (China) "might" break the cycle, but I would not hold my breath, given my experiences here. If you wanna get occult, They worship Mammon in the form of excessive interest and preoccupation with money and opulent wealth.

That said, I am always happy to read your ideas and I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to lock you out of the China threads.

We cool?

Post: #241

(04-11-2018 03:32 AM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ I apologize if it appears as though I misinterpreted you, Zelcorpion. I am 100% in agreement with everything you just wrote there. I am very familiar with how the globalists use Communism to push a one-world government. I do think they (China) "might" break the cycle, but I would not hold my breath, given my experiences here. If you wanna get occult, They worship Mammon in the form of excessive interest and preoccupation with money and opulent wealth.

That said, I am always happy to read your ideas and I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to lock you out of the China threads.

We cool?

We always cool.

Actually my post was in agreement with you. The rest of the stuff is just general statements regarding the issue that were not addressing your statement.

I would not hold my breath on the Chinese backstabbing the globalists in the future. It's more likely that they will simply join the ranks and unleash the feminism/anti-family/globo-homo propaganda sometime later on the population. All I said is that I express my hope that they will not go along.

Plus - the Chinese are set to take over as the world police in the coming decades. The future Libya will be fought by them soon enough.

Post: #242

(04-10-2018 11:17 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Just get into a political discussion with a close Chinese friend and you'll see what I'm talking about. Ask them if they think something is "wrong" with the decisions of the government and you'll get something along the lines of, "It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, this is simply the way it is and we can do nothing about it because we are powerless."

This is not the attitude of a person who is willing to stand against subversion in their own nation.

I don't think that's the proper question to ask a Chinese. Right or wrong? That sounds morally charged. Most Chinese wouldn't give a shit about the moral implications of government policies. They wouldn't give a shit about anything that has no impact on their daily lives. To that extent they are politically apathetic. They would rather focus on improving their economic situation than worrying about the potential abuse of Chinese investment in Africa.

But they are not as submissive or slavish as you suggest. If their fundamental interests are touched, they will make a noise for sure. If they were so obedient and slavish, the CCP wouldn't be so paranoid about tightening internet control. (Funnily enough, there is a constant arm race between government censors and Internet users who constantly think of new ways to bypass censors). There are on average 500 protests a day in China. And then there was Tienanmen. Do you believe that there will never be a Tienanmen again no matter what the government does?

So I did what you suggested: I asked my closest Chinese friend whether he would go on the street to protest if the CCP suddenly opened the border and accepted limitless immigrants and refugees? He said, for sure, if he ended up living in a border city. If not, he would donate money and support protesters in the border cities. And if the immigrants and refugees flood into big non-border cities (including where he lives) like they did in Europe, he would get on the streets too, albeit not as a leader but as a follower.

And if the CCP suddenly declares that Senkaku Islands totally belong to Japan, and apologizes to the Japanese for the dispute? The 2012 riots provide a hint about what would happen. It was out of the CCP's control. My friend thinks those protesters are stupid but acknowledges that they exist.

There are also a lot of dissatisfaction with the illegal African immigrants in Guangzhou. Things like that can explode when provided a trigger.

Historically, since thousands of years ago, Chinese peasants have been rebelling against their emperors when their needs were not met. And Chinese youths today are more nationalistic than they ever were in history.

Quote:China just like the Soviet Union was easily controlled from the very top. The people don't care if the top person above seems to be his own boss and seems to be Chinese.

Not really. China is much more decentralized than the Soviet Union. Simply because it is too large demographically. Local governments frequently ignored orders from the central.

Another thing is, you seem to believe that ordinary Chinese will not accept being ruled by non-Chinese. Then, why do you think Chinese elites will accept being ruled by non-Chinese (eg. being slaves/lackeys/puppets/subordinates to the Jews)? I am not saying the Chinese political elites are fiercely patriotic. But most of them are power-hungry. Some are even racist. Is it likely that racist power-hungry people will accept being (forever) subservient to foreign rulers? Why would they stop short of grabbing all the power for themselves? The ordinary Chinese understandably feel powerless against their own government. But why would the Chinese elites feel powerless against the Jews, especially when they get to have all the nukes in their hands (soon)?
And the Chinese financial system is pretty closed too. Anyone who knows the Chinese financial system, knows that foreign banks have very little influence over it. There is no evidence that they are controlled by international bankers.

Post: #243

Is Trump more politically vulnerable than Xi? Seems he knows, poll wise, he won’t win re-election and/or needs drastic courses of action to shake things up to change the tide

Post: #244

Japan just found hundreds of years worth of rare earth metals off their coast. Will be a potential game changer for US/Japan/China trade and may have a big effect on Japan and China's respective economies in general.

Post: #245

Libertysea, you're using extreme examples to prove points that don't need to be proven. This is like when guys were discussing their plan for the zombie apocalypse or whatever race war they think's gonna happen. I know you're a "sinopherical centrist" or whatever you call yourself (China LARPer for the folks at home), but that doesn't mean every little fantasy you entertain about China is true.

In what universe would the CCP, a xenophobic, authoritarian government, open up unlimited immigration?

Of course the locals would rightfully flip their lid about that. That said, that would never happen, and you wouldn't even ask those sorts of questions if you knew that.

If China were to autistically pull a 180 and say "Don't worry about the Senkaku islands anymore" people would be angry for a few weeks and then go back to playing on their iphones. Of course, once again, this is not something the CCP would do in such a silly manner. Like you said, if the bottom line isn't fucked with people here tend to forget about the politics really fast.

I was here when Duterte was going at it with China about those islands and you know what happened? Chinese people did what Western people do. They posted a bunch of inflammatory statuses on Wechat and Facebook and then went back to work, made money and forgot all about it.

How many of the 182500 protests a year have you witnessed? Honestly, I've been communicating with well over 20+ forum members based in and around China for 3+ years, and no one has mentioned personally witnessing any of these protests. I've been in SZ for 3 years almost continuously (I've left for a few days here and there) and I've seen all of 0 protests.

You're quoting articles from almost 7 years ago about riots. I'm willing to believe this might have been true 7 years ago, but I'm finding this very hard to believe in 2018.

Libertysea, when was the last time you were in China? I am friends with many young people and I teach and interact with young people all day in China. I'd say the young generation here is not all that nationalistic. Many older Chinese folk I've talked to BEMOAN the fact that this next generation is NOT nationalistic enough. I have a good friend who was telling me he's deeply disturbed by the fact that his friends don't give a fuck about Chinese cultural heritage.

Post: #246

I don't understand how the USA is losing the media war on tariffs for Chinese goods. Couldn't someone easily compile a huge list of thousands of goods and their respective prices in the USA and China? China taxes everything that comes from the USA.

Couldn't Trump simply say, whatever you tax US goods, we will tax Chinese goods. If you change the import taxes on our goods for 6 months, we will change them on our side. We're waiting President Xi. That takes 15 minutes so set up, film a press conference, done.

Politics, like everything else, can only happen with really smart people. Normal people would never come up with such retarded and complicated ways of doing things.

Post: #247

(04-19-2018 12:37 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Japan just found hundreds of years worth of rare earth metals off their coast. Will be a potential game changer for US/Japan/China trade and may have a big effect on Japan and China's respective economies in general.

This is where the Art of the Deal starts. Rare earth materials for electronics are one of the main things the US buys from China that it isn't easy to get elsewhere ( from Canada as well, right?). Japan is our bro. Now China has literally not a single thing we couldn't do without.

Triple the tariffs. Laugh. Repeat the laugh a few times.

Post: #248

(04-19-2018 01:07 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 12:37 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Japan just found hundreds of years worth of rare earth metals off their coast. Will be a potential game changer for US/Japan/China trade and may have a big effect on Japan and China's respective economies in general.

This is where the Art of the Deal starts. Rare earth materials for electronics are one of the main things the US buys from China that it isn't easy to get elsewhere ( from Canada as well, right?). Japan is our bro. Now China has literally not a single thing we couldn't do without.

Triple the tariffs. Laugh. Repeat the laugh a few times.

The US actually has plenty, the mining is just hampered by environmental regulations and higher costs. There are existing mines that could be reopened pretty quickly, if needed.

But it'd definitely be better to have another option, and China actually uses their rare earth metal exports to Japan as leverage and has blocked them in the past to drive up the price.

Not only will this make the US and Japan less reliant on Chinese exports, if Japan decides to challenge China as a leading rare earth metal exporter, it could have a big effect on both country's economies, both directly (imports and exports) and indirectly (fueling Japanese tech advacement). There's enough in this deposit to supply the world for 400 to 800 years, depending on the metal.

Post: #249

(04-19-2018 12:49 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  I don't understand how the USA is losing the media war on tariffs for Chinese goods. Couldn't someone easily compile a huge list of thousands of goods and their respective prices in the USA and China? China taxes everything that comes from the USA.

Western media is inundated with pro-Chinese propaganda, which is something I've been trying to bring attention to for a while. Case in point, the mainstream news outlets are more critical of a potential trade war with China than potential nuclear war with Russia.

That's why, as someone else pointed out above, people who have actually lived in China or Asia long-term and have an interest in the region's politics/history have a totally different view on these matters than people living in the West. Because our views are based on actual observation and experience and not the pro-China narrative pushed in the West.

It's not just the 'mainstream' media either, because as we've seen even the folks who see through a lot of the other modern propaganda end up having this weird fairy tale idea about China and the East in general.

Fortunately, I think that's slowly changing, and people are starting to take notice of the fact that the media is constantly trying to protect China. People made a big deal about Tucker Carlson's criticism of war with Syria/Russia, but what slipped more under the radar is who he said was the real 'threat'...

The guy who wrote Clinton Cash also just released a book called Secret Empires exposing some of the China connections of major US politicians (Biden, Kerry, etc.)

Post: #250

Thanks for the response, Fortis. I do hope we can have a fruitful discussion.
1.

(04-19-2018 12:46 AM)Fortis Wrote:  In what universe would the CCP, a xenophobic, authoritarian government [sic], open up unlimited immigration?

In that universe where the CCP is a globalist puppet/lackey/bedfellow, of course. If they are really controlled by globalists, that’s what they will eventually turn to [you cannot have a one-world government (OWG) without unlimited immigration]. This is Zel’s view, which you said you 100% agreed with. I am not 100% certain how serious you are with this statement, and I’m sorry if I misinterpreted you. But in the way you put it, you seem to agree that it’s at least more likely than not that: i) globalists fully control communists in general and the CCP in particular and are using it to push for an OWG; ii) the Chinese people are not willing to protest against the subversion of their own national border. I have long contradicted these views in my history of disagreement with Zel.

i) Regarding the Chinese political elites: A government can't be both xenophobic and globalist at the same time, don't you think? Now I fully agree that the CCP is xenophobic, and it’s “unthinkable” that they will go the homo-globo route with open border and unlimited immigration. So you proved my point, and contradicted your earlier statement. Being xenophobic and protecting border integrity are already “seeking to do things differently” against an OWG scheme.

ii) Regarding the ordinary Chinese people: you claim that they - more likely than not - will not resist against any globalist government or any globalist policy, because they feel powerless against the government, and are trained to submit to subversion from within. Now the point is not that the CCP will go for open border, the point is that open border is a globalist policy which a globalist government will enact, and the ordinary Chinese people will certainly resist against such globalist policies. You can hold your breath on that, lol, though it is not exactly something of a pretty last hope for people in the West. China would resist open-border globalist schemes for its own sake, not for anyone else's sake.

Discussing the possibility of the CCP going the open-border globo-homo OWG route, is like “guys discussing their plan for the zombie apocalypse or whatever race war they think's gonna happen”, but that’s precisely what you guys were doing, so I go along with it and entertained the possibility. It would never happen, and it’s precisely because I knew beforehand the answer to my question that I asked my friend those sorts of questions, to prove my point.

One thing to note is, some people seem to think that resisting globalism is a matter of doing what’s morally right, being heroic altruistic freedom fighters and whatnot. But in reality it is more a matter of protecting self-interest (individual and national both). Pathological altruism is part (not all) of the reason many Europeans accept the kind of immigration and national subversion in their countries. You simply cannot convert the Chinese into that sort of pathological altruists, lol. The sort of immigration that is going on in Europe would be unacceptable in China. They are not going to hold Refugee Welcome signs. They don't need to be anything special, just being ordinary folks going about pursuing and protecting their ordinary (or sometimes, a bit above-ordinary) self-interests would suffice. Without this sort of mass immigration happening, Chinese have nothing to worry about national or ethnic subversion. Han Chinese have no need to fear or even entertain the possibility of becoming an ethnic minority in their own nation, like white guys do.

2. Regarding the Senkaku issue vs the Duterte thing: Chinese reaction against the Japanese government buying the Sensaku Islands in 2012 was massively more visceral, fierce and action-oriented than they do with Duterte going at it with the South China Sea Islands (SCSIs), although the SCSIs are more strategically important. That’s easily understandable, because China doesn’t have a bloody history with Philippines liked they did with Japan (and Duterte is just Duterte, lol). So I appreciate your experience in China when Duterte was going at it, but you can’t infer Chinese reaction to Sensaku from Chinese reaction to SCSIs. If the CCP secede controls of part of SCSIs, public reactions won’t be too strong, but if they secede control of the Sensaku, it’s a different matter – at least in the foreseeable future. They will go back to making money eventually, but their reactions will be strong enough to ensure the CCP will retract their decisions, or better, strong enough to ensure that the CCP will not even entertain the possibility of pulling such a 180%.

3. Regarding protests, I did witness a few. One February my uncle and I were visiting a branch of my clan in the Yellow mountains in China, partly to revise our genealogy book. It was freezing cold and the main water line was frozen at the time, so part of that hamlet stopped getting water. After 5 days my host (a distant relative) was fed up with it and decided to go to talk to the town officials. My uncle dragged me along with her. Along the way she would drop by her neighbors’ houses to chat and invite others to join her. Soon the group grew and there were about 20 women marching up to the government office. An official was sitting alone at his desk in the gov building's office and the women basically surrounded him and bombarded him with complaints about the lack of water. At first he said they could do nothing. After a few minutes of being scolded by the group of women he got on the phone, and not long after that he announced that water would be restored in the next day or two. We all left. Within two days water service was restored.
Another case was when a local Chinese government decided to use my friend’s land to set up a waste plant. The compensation was low, so the locals did a sit-in demonstration, and eventually they got a higher compensation. Or another occasion when retired workers protested the pension cut when a state-owned company announced bankruptcy.

Prosperous cities like Shenzen don’t protest all that often. Most protests are about forced land grabs, which tend to happen more in poorer areas. Also marching in the streets is much less common than just gathering in town government office holding banners and such or filing petitions and complaints against some specific local government policies. If you stay in a town government office long enough you will see some.

Since conditions of life have gotten better, there are fewer protests now, inlcuding the more popular form of petition. But if the government decide to do mass immigration that would decrease quality of life like they did in Europe, there will certainly be protests.

There was also one massive wave of protests as recent as 2017 in Shanghai. I’m surprised that none of your friends witnessed that. And that’s Shanghai, where people are rather soft, compared to, say, Dongbei, Hunan, Sichuan, or even northern Jiangsu. Also people in the Southern East Coast generally don’t like to discuss politics all that much and are focused on making money and are much more cosmopolitan. A Beijing taxi driver is much more willing to discuss politics.

If you stay in one place for too long, it’s easy to get the impression that what you see is what China is general like. But China is very vast, complex and diverse. For example, living in Shenzhen, you may have the impression that Chinese guys can’t fight, but if you live in Dongbei, you will have a very different impression.

4. Regarding nationalism, I guess in some respects people born before the 60s do seem more nationalistic than Chinese youths. However, one has to consider many aspects. In my impressions:
-People born between the 60s and 80s feel more insecure about being Chinese. They tend to think China is terrible and the West is great at everything. They are more likely to love moving out of China. People born in the 90s and after feel more confident about being Chinese, and are lesslikely to idealize the West.
-People born between the 60s and 80s are less likely to boycott South Korean products over THAAD, less likely to criticize Yang Shuping for her statement than later generations.
-People born in the 90s are more likely to buy Chinese brands to support domestic industry.
-There are more oversea returnees than before.
-Though it’s still rare, more people are starting to hold wedding ceremonies in traditional Chinese way.
-People born before the 60s like Mao and were prepared to do something like the Cultural Revolutions (in Mao's time it was precisely common Chinese youths that join the Red Guards and/or destroy Chinese cultural heritage). There is no way today youths are going to do something like that.

Comparing the broader patriotism of young people today to that of people born before the 60s is a tricky issue. Maybe I was exaggerating about it, but my broader point the nation-state have firmly taken hold in Chinese mind, especially compared to the dynastic eras. The idea of transnational entity like the EU is very implausible in East Asia. China would resist globalism but probably not in a way that connects them with Japan. Probably.

Old people like to complain about how younger generations are getting worse, and tradition enthusiasts always feel people are not doing enough to preserve cultural heritage, lol. But there is no turning back to an idealized past, and people have to adapt to new conditions while preserving their national identity. It has to happen organically. China is going to have AI, robots and space stations with Chinese characteristics and that's it.

Quote:I know you're a "sinopherical centrist" or whatever you call yourself (China LARPer for the folks at home), but that doesn't mean every little fantasy you entertain about China is true.

I don’t know what the hell that is or what you mistake my position for, lol, but I do think that it’s silly to dress up in ancient attires going around towns. I simply think that Peng Liyuan (Xi’s wife) dresses nice and Chinese women could follow a bit of that, and it’d be nice if Chinese can learn a bit from the great people of Japan in preserving their own tradition. Modern gears with a Sinitic tinge would also be nice. That’s all. Funny that you bring this up, but it has nothing to do with my arguments above, lol.

Last but not least, I certainly have never claimed that everything I say about China is true, neither explicitly or implicitly. I’m not an expert, and many guys here certainly know more about some parts of China than I do. I’m just putting out my two cents, to be corrected where I’m wrong and learn from it. I certainly learned a lot about China from Suits, TravelerKai, and you too Fortis. If any of what I say qualifies as an unrealistic fantasy, please correct me on that.

Cheers.

p/s: I do think Trump is doing a pretty good job dealing with China. Will elaborate later.