Post: #1

This is a debate I was having with my wife today. As a business owner, I strongly favor ethics rather than money. Let me give you an example.

I recently bought a small outdoor resort in Europe. Nothing big, just 2 rooms, but it's a place that has beautiful scenery, making it ideal for marriage celebrations. The first time I logged in the booking portal, I was browsing through the upcoming bookings and I found two bookings that were same-sex marriages. I called the manager, who informed me that the payment hadn't been made yet, but it was an "unconfirmed" bookings since the customers were still at the inquiry stage. I asked the manager to respectfully turn down the bookings and to forbid further same-sex marriages at the estate.

He informed me that I was free to do as I wish as the owner, but that he didn't recommend it, as it might imply a 10% drop in profits. I stood my ground and they told me they would oblige. They would simply tell potential customers that the dates were "on hold" by another customer, rather than flat-out telling them "no gay marraige" which could backfire and attract the wrong kind of attention.

I also do web design part time and work mostly in PHP, and I recently turned down an offer to configure a Wordpress dedicated server for a SJW blogging website, despite the money offered. I used the "We will be able to start working on it only in 6 months due to a major contract in progress" excuse.

My wife, who also owns a business, said that I should try to follow ethics first as long as it doesn't imply a loss, but I stood my ground that it is important to follow our principles even if it implies a loss, because you'll be much happier at what you're doing.

What are you guys opinion on that?

Post: #2

I can't help but think that your wife was shit-testing you and that she secretly admires your ability to not whore yourself out for cash.

Post: #3

(01-15-2017 09:08 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  This is a debate I was having with my wife today. As a business owner, I strongly favor ethics rather than money. Let me give you an example.

I recently bought a small outdoor resort in Europe. Nothing big, just 2 rooms, but it's a place that has beautiful scenery, making it ideal for marriage celebrations. The first time I logged in the booking portal, I was browsing through the upcoming bookings and I found two bookings that were same-sex marriages. I called the manager, who informed me that the payment hadn't been made yet, but it was an "unconfirmed" bookings since the customers were still at the inquiry stage. I asked the manager to respectfully turn down the bookings and to forbid further same-sex marriages at the estate.

He informed me that I was free to do as I wish as the owner, but that he didn't recommend it, as it might imply a 10% drop in profits. I stood my ground and they told me they would oblige. They would simply tell potential customers that the dates were "on hold" by another customer, rather than flat-out telling them "no gay marraige" which could backfire and attract the wrong kind of attention.

I also do web design part time and work mostly in PHP, and I recently turned down an offer to configure a Wordpress dedicated server for a SJW blogging website, despite the money offered. I used the "We will be able to start working on it only in 6 months due to a major contract in progress" excuse.

What are you guys opinion on that?

What are you guys opinion on that?: I do respect your principles and fortitude. Don't do trade with marriage-defacing gays (the ones who actually provocatively try and get "married") or leftist parasites (loony SJWs) and other nefarious individuals (unless you are starving and effectively have no other choice). Much better to lose 10% of your income, but keep your dignity and self-esteem... I mean, ok, you might be 10% richer, but feel weak-minded and complicit: better to feel proud and be a little bit less wealthy.

Post: #4

I think you have to drill down to a more fundamental desire you have. None of us want money. It's just a lump of metal or a dirty piece of paper with numbers, pictures and metal stripes. We want things the money can get us. And that differs from man to man. I would prioritize freedom of location, another man might prioritize better education for his kids, another man might prioritize a nice sports car.

Only then can you make this evaluation. If someone offered you "you can live on a beach in Fiji all expenses paid, with hotties knocking on your door everyday, but Lindy West will be made president of the USA" would you take it? That question ultimately comes down to a time-preference question. How important is the present to you versus the future?

So really it would come down to how much money, right? If a gay marriage advocate came up to you and asked you to develop his new activism website, is there really no price you would take?

Post: #5

Instead wasting time thinking about that problem I would use the same time to offset any potential loss by earning money.

Post: #6

Turning down SJWs is something that can only be good in the long term. Fewer chances of histrionics, fewer attention-grabbing stunts, fewer chances of getting in contact with scum that would gladly throw you under the bus for 5% more attention if you accidentally did something they didn't like.

Post: #7

I work in sales. I have no control of who the potential clients will be. My office people generate leads and set appointments for me.

I have a sliding commission scale, so I can discount pricing at will. I've dropped the price and lowered my commission a couple times for obvious Trump supporters who couldn't make the numbers work. I also round up quite a bit when I'm with clients I know are leftists or SJW's.

I can't control who I interact with but I essentially charge a premium for having to deal with their bullshit. My advice would be to jack up the price on a leftist website you're developing. I wouldn't let gays get married at my resort though.

Post: #8

I prioritize integrity over either. In my mind, refusing to do business with people whose political views you disagree with is just a choice. It's neutral, based on personal preference, but I do not consider it especially "ethical".

Integrity is having respect for your customers and following through on what you promise to them. I run an industrial equipment business based on things I learned from my Grandfather and machines he invented. One of the last things he said to me is 'Always be kind to your customers', and that is one of my guiding principles in business. Treating customers with kindness and compassion no matter what. If they are rude to me, I do not hold it against them, but instead treat them with respect.

It's true that when owning a business, there are some people one simply does not do business with. Some customers are more trouble than they're worth, and ones who lack integrity and tend to lie, cheat, steal will do the same to you.

I try not to judge people solely based on their political views, preferring to consider each individual as an individual. The media wants to divide us along political lines. There are (some) good people on the left, I'm sure, and there are plenty of immoral scumbags who agree with my political views, of that I have no doubt. Simple statistics make that easily proven. Considering whether I should do business with someone based on their character and mutually beneficial results is what I find important.

Post: #9

Overprice them. Don´t ever refuse clients.

Post: #10

As a business owner myself, I put my ethics before profit. I've turned down clients that were difficult to work with. Not worth the time, hassle or expense. Some clients aren't worth the trouble. Also, as a Catholic, I don't believe in "gay marriage". There's nothing sacred about two men sticking their penises in each other's rectum. You are well within your rights and moral boundaries not to sign off on this perversity. Good for you, my hat is off to you.

Post: #11

If you were airbnbing your personal house, I get it but what does it have to do with ethics for weddings?

Marriott is owned by mormon. Do you think they won't allow gay couples, people trying to fuck before the marriage at their hotel?

Have a big ethic and stay small then nobody would notice about resort with 2 rooms not accepting gay couples.

Post: #12

Your mission as a business owner should be to make money. Money can buy you freedom to not deal with bullshit in the future. If you already have enough, then it's a different story. But if you go out to make it and then turn it down, there's something seriously wrong.

Actually, if you have just a few competitors you are making them stronger by turning people down. Only if you have a monopoly does it make sense to crack down on shit you don't like.

And even if you have a monopoly with your small resort, with that one being the only one in the area or with some special amenity. If you decline a booking, you only ruin someone's day and pay for this in 10% profits. If i were you I'd happily take their money and then give that 10% to an organization that lobby against gay rights, or does a good job in hurting SJWs. It would be nice to let someone I don't like contribute financially to their own downfall. And it's money better spend then just taking the hit profit wise.

Post: #13

To answer OP's question generally, one has to keep in mind that trust and reputation are worth money too.

On OP's specific situation, it's his choice.

I remember on AirBnB one owner wouldn't let me and my girlfriend book since we weren't married. No hard feelings, I just took my money elsewhere.

Post: #14

In reference to the OP, there's a difference between the gays and the SJWs. The gays aren't trying to hurt anyone, they're just gay, you may as well take their money and let them do whatever they're going to do, even if you disagree with it. But the SJWs, that's another matter, and anything you can do (or not do) to put a spanner in the works is a good thing. Although one could go further and argue that you should capitalize on things that are going to happen with or without you.

Post: #15

As long as I am not hurting anyone else or ruining lives.. "Money is green" - end of story.

Post: #16

(01-16-2017 06:28 AM)Mr Johnny Montoya Wrote:  In reference to the OP, there's a difference between the gays and the SJWs. The gays aren't trying to hurt anyone, they're just gay, you may as well take their money and let them do whatever they're going to do, even if you disagree with it.

Lol'd

Post: #17

It depends on what kind of ethics you're talking about. Usually when the term "business ethics" is used it implies we're talking about following the legal and cultural standards of the society in which the business is located. Not necessarily one's own personal ethics with respect to social and moral issues.

I don't really see turning down a web design job for a SJW blogger as being an ethical issue in that sense of the word. If they were your customer and you secretly inserted a back door into the code or distributed their personal information or something without their permission, then yes, that would be a breach of business ethics. But they never were your customer, and AFAIK at least in the US there's no law forcing you to take on anyone as a client in that industry that you don't wish to. I wouldn't have even bothered with an excuse. "Sorry, I'm not able to take on your project at this time."

I've turned down plenty of projects that I knew were going to be a pain in the ass due to the temperament or politics of the person making the offer. I can't recall ever terribly regretting it from a money standpoint. Sometimes I just get a gut feeling that the potential client isn't going to fucking pay up on time, and refuse solely on that (not stated explicitly, of course.) I'd say a SJW blogger would fall into that category. Also the national government of India.

In the first case, a least in the US, there are laws that govern refusal of service in "places of public accommodation" based on race, religion, sexual orientation, and so on. I don't know what they are in your unknown European country, but at least here I would consider not adhering to those laws to be a business ethics violation, regardless of my personal beliefs on it. Not that it doesn't happen all the time. For my part I'd just think doing that was cutting off my nose to spite my face; I'm sure some of the more religious forum members like the Catholic gentleman above disagree, and that's fine.

Unfortunately I'd say that in places where "there are laws against that kind of thing", if I found that my personal ethics kept repeatedly coming into conflict with what the law says about it, I'd have no choice but to decide that it probably wasn't the best line of work for me to be in.

Post: #18

I think the correct word for this would be values, not ethics. All businesses should put ethics first, and most do.

I really dislike the new trend of small business owners and big corporations alike getting into social/political/personal issues. We've all seen the reports of restaurants and other businesses putting up signs of "Trump Supporters Not Welcome", and major brands putting out statements stating their "values" and what they reject. It's petty, and nauseating.

"But my values are the real righteous values". Yes perhaps they are, but it the practical sense, to the customer, it's all the same. It's like there's a competition lately of which companies and which side can virtue signal the most.

When I go down to the $9.99 steak house I don't want to know about the owners personal views, and I don't want the owner to know or care about mine. I'm there to get a good meal and he's there to provide a good product politely and receive money, that's it.

Post: #19

(01-15-2017 09:08 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  They would simply tell potential customers that the dates were "on hold" by another customer, rather than flat-out telling them "no gay marraige" which could backfire and attract the wrong kind of attention.

That's half assing it.

If you are concerned about ethics, you gotta be honest the whole way through.

Now the message you've sent is that your scheduling person is incompetent.

Aloha!

Post: #20

I'll sell my products to anybody. If someone has different view points or whatever, that's fine by me, no need to mix business and politics. Generally the more objectionable a customer is, the more money I try to get out of them. In my view, it is much better to get your enemies to give you their money, so that you can get richer and become more influential and lead a better more enjoyable life.

Post: #21

I run a small manufacturing and distribution business. We have sold to pretty much anybody that is a paying customer, including gays and even one tranny, though I missed "xir" appearance. The distinction is that my products would not practically be used to advance the idea of some SJW/Gay agenda. These are just customers that have practical problems and I have a great solution.

I have many unsavory customers: ex-cons, shady mofos, guys I suspect are scamming people (but can't prove it or even make a credible allegation). It's not always service with a smile, but I will take care of them and do my end to support legit business. Once I get credible information they are up to no good, especially if it impacts my product and reputation, then they get one chance to make it right with their customer or our relationship changes/terminates.

If I was running a bakery and the government tried to compel me to service the gay wedding, that is another story. In that case, I am being explicitly asked to participate in or advance something I don't believe in, have religious objections to, etc. In that instance, as in OP's case, then answer is NO, decline the sale. Likewise with the SJW website, you are being asked to explicitly advance their cause - operate an attractive and effective website. Again, decline the sale.

Post: #22

As a business owner I'm in the business of making money, I could care less about anyone's political, personal views or sexual orientation. As long as they aren't trying to force their gay ways on me why should I care or force my ways on them. But I look a the world in a live and llet live type of way, I mean at the end of the day who the fuck am I to judge anyone's lifestyle, more importantly what do I care??.... though that

Post: #23

$ spends the same if it comes from garbage collection or from selling high-end handbags.

I personally dont give a fk, as long as I am doing my job properly and they aren't asking me to do anything improper on my part.

As for your resort, it really comes down to how much you need that extra $ and whether it can be rented out to somebody else.

As far as I am not doing other ppl harm w/my biz, I like $ so I dont care where or from whom it comes from....

Post: #24

I disagree with that. A professional business should not discriminate clients. I do web development too. If a Porn website decides to hire me, I'll decline. But that's because I think I can't give professional services given the environment I'll be working on.

I don't have a problem working with gay people. Pedophiles will be another story and thus I'll decline or inform the relevant authorities.

I keep my values for myself and my social circle. Work is work.

Post: #25

Values are everything, stick to them no matter what.

I usually find I get MORE work from proudly showing values, than being a slimy money before ethics kind of guy.