Post: #1

So I have the opportunity to spend a year of my Phd in either Maryland or Melbourne.

Very different places. Can anyone help with weighing up the pros and cons of each place. Which would you choose (assume he academic resources offered at each are roughly equal)

Post: #2

(01-06-2017 08:52 AM)MANic Wrote:  So I have the opportunity to spend a year of my Phd in either Maryland or Melbourne.

Very different places. Can anyone help with weighing up the pros and cons of each place. Which would you choose (assume he academic resources offered at each are roughly equal)

Maryland
PROs
-Awesome party school with thousands of hot sloots everywhere
-Massive, beautiful campus with tons to do
-Huge gym/athletic facility
-One shady walk from Route 1 + quick metro ride = access to the entire DMV (DC-Maryland-Virginia)
-The DC area is massively diverse so you're sure to find your favorite flavor of women and a group of friends you can get along with
-Tons of other top-tier schools in the area for academic and social networking

CONs
-Hoodrats in the surrounding areas and can make walking around off-campus (or even on-campus) less than safe at night.
-DC itself isn't the best city in terms of female talent or an interesting/exciting lifestyle (although it is still pretty fun and, in my opinion, nowhere near as bad as this forum would suggest)

I know nothing about Australia, but you'd be hard pressed to find an expert on both areas. Final Verdict: UMD is awesome, if you decide to choose Melbourne instead, you should have a very compelling reason.

Post: #3

From everything negative said about Australia, unless there is a very good reason or benefit to go, I can't see the extra expense of being there for a year would be a good idea for anyone.

I suspect the whole 'spend a year abroad' for your PhD program is just another way for the school to get ten or twenty grand out of you in tuition and fees, with little in the way of value for yourself gained.

If you really want to go to Australia, I would suggest going there on vacation for a week or two to make sure you would like the place before you move there for a year .

Post: #4

(01-06-2017 08:52 AM)MANic Wrote:  So I have the opportunity to spend a year of my Phd in either Maryland or Melbourne.

Very different places. Can anyone help with weighing up the pros and cons of each place. Which would you choose (assume he academic resources offered at each are roughly equal)

In terms of academics, the University of Melbourne is tied for the best university in Australia (with ANU). The campus is also beautiful with sandstone Victorian era architecture, not to mention very conveniently located.

Melbourne is a city you will either love or hate, depending on what kind of person you are. It has a population of 4.6 million people and is the cultural, arts and sporting capital of Australia. It is also one of the most hipster cities in the world, up there with Berlin or Portland. It is actually the dominant culture here. By that I mean that it pervades the entire inner city even in the supposedly non-hipster areas and even has a noticeable impact on the fashion and cultural tastes of what you would call the frat/sorority or jock/cheerleader type in America. It also means that so long as you don't venture into the outer suburbs suburbs the jacked brutish bogan stereotype you might encounter in Bali is not much of an issue here. You are essentially trading off the obesity and masculine behaviour of the bogan females for the alternative fashions and left-wing politics of the hipsters.

I don't know what your race is but Melbourne is also an inter-racial dating mecca because of it's hipsterness. It is easily the most "progressive" city in the country, much more so even than Sydney. If you're African American and even just average looking you will have a big advantage in Australia in general but even more so in Melbourne. On the flipside being white and American is a disadvantage in Australia because of negative stereotypes stemming from politics, it started because of George W. Bush and you can expect it to get even worse now because of Trump. A lot of Aussies seem to believe that white Americans are obese, racist Evangelical Christian gun lovers, especially in Melbourne.

What that is all means is if hipster is your thing in terms of urban amenity and girls, you will love it here. If you don't, you're shit out of luck unless you have an Asian fetish and want to focus on girls fresh off the boat from China. The only other option is daygaming the European backpackers during the Summer but that will dry up as it gets colder. If none of those appeal to you, the chances of you having a good sex life here are very very slim unless you're in top few % of men looks wise.

Keep in mind the cost of living is high here. If you want to live close enough to the city centre to be able to go out and game without having to leave your own neighbourhood, your typical rent will be AUD$1,000 a month each for a place with housemates. It's still a lot better than Sydney but on a PhD budget you will probably be struggling. I would say at the minimum you'd need to be able to afford AUD$800 rent a month here plus utilities to have a proper Melbourne experience. On the other hand if you can get work here, the minimum wage is around AUD$16.50 an hour. If you can afford it and you like hipsters and/or have an Asian fetish then yeah come, they don't call us the most livable city in the world for nothing. Otherwise, Melbourne is not the place for you and you most likely won't have a good time here.

Post: #5

University of Maryland is a pretty good school which is known in the US and even outside of the US. Having it on your resume, even if it's a one year program, would help you find a job in the US, particularly on the East Coast. You can also travel around the US during that year: drive or take the train up north to NYC, Boston and many other places. Drive down south to Florida and other places in between. I would choose Maryland. Never mind all the talk about how much DC sucks for girls, etc. Never been to Australia, but from what I know it could be even worse than DC area when it comes to girls.

Post: #6

thanks for the info guys. I'm a white South African (British ethnically) so I guess I'll be stuck with the negative stereotypes as well - decently jacked so won't be ideal for androgynous cities and no yellowfever either.

I have tons of family in Melbourne and will likely stay with my cousin who owns his own pad and will rent me a room - insists on renting it for 250 even though going rate is close to a grand weekly. Melbourne is my first choice tbh - plus no tuition costs either. Will I be able to cover the 250 rent plus food by working weekends?
Would hate to eat into my almost non-existent savings.

Would I still be okay with solid game or is it one of those cities with crazy PC bitches who self-hate and will reject top-tier guys just for being white?

Post: #7

how cheap is travelling within the US?
Also any idea of how good the water sport facilities are in Maryland?

Post: #8

(01-06-2017 10:34 AM)MANic Wrote:  thanks for the info guys. I'm a white South African (British ethnically) so I guess I'll be stuck with the negative stereotypes as well - decently jacked so won't be ideal for androgynous cities and no yellowfever either.

I have tons of family in Melbourne and will likely stay with my cousin who owns his own pad and will rent me a room - insists on renting it for 250 even though going rate is close to a grand weekly. Melbourne is my first choice tbh - plus no tuition costs either. Will I be able to cover the 250 rent plus food by working weekends?
Would hate to eat into my almost non-existent savings.

Would I still be okay with solid game or is it one of those cities with crazy PC bitches who self-hate and will reject top-tier guys just for being white?

Where is this place located? If you can objectively say you're an 8+ looks wise and have decent game than you'll be fine, although you'll have to lower standards relative to what you'd get in SA, but no doubt that would be the same in America too. Otherwise you really do need to like hipsters or FOB Asians to be happy here. It sounds bad, but that's Australia for you. At least Melbourne doesn't have lockout laws like they have in Sydney and Queensland now.

Ironically though, I don't think you will have any problems with stereotypes being white South African here. Your accent will be seen as very attractive also. It's only white Americans who suffer a penalty for some reason. As you probably know there are a lot of South African immigrants in Australia. Especially in Perth. Most are Afrikaner or British of course but in Melbourne and Sydney a lot are Jewish too.

Post: #9

Melbourne is a great city.....if you're a woman.

In all seriousness, I've had some good times there and it has a great food, sport and arts scene, as well as probably the best nightlife in Australia. No shitty lock out laws like the rest of the country. That said, if you want to get laid it's going to take some serious effort unless you have model good looks or some type of status.

Post: #10

moving to Aus is the dream of every minority non-black South African to be honest - we're even willing to learn to live without maids, gardeners and in considerably less desirable housing just to escape the crime and ever increasing affirmative action. You're completely right there.
I reckon I'm pretty good looking but being confined to a research environment means less gym time and being considerably worse for wear.
You're making me seriously reconsider. What's the average quality of the girls there? Worth all the effort?

Post: #11

can't be that bad in a city of 4 million +, can it?

Post: #12

(01-06-2017 10:53 AM)MANic Wrote:  moving to Aus is the dream of every minority non-black South African to be honest - we're even willing to learn to live without maids, gardeners and in considerably less desirable housing just to escape the crime and ever increasing affirmative action. You're completely right there.
I reckon I'm pretty good looking but being confined to a research environment means less gym time and being considerably worse for wear.
You're making me seriously reconsider. What's the average quality of the girls there? Worth all the effort?

Which area would your place be in? Within 5km of the CBD your logistics will be good and with decent looks and a South African accent you'll have a solid advantage over most men here.

It's really hard to say regarding quality because what I would consider a 5 here would be very different in South Africa so it's hard to just spit a number out at you that would make sense to you. I can guarantee you though that the standard of Afrikaner girls is well above that of Aussies. British South Africans I'm not so sure since the genetic stock is so similar. But on the flipside white South African girls would be a lot more sexually conservative.

Have you ever been to the U.K? I would say the quality in Australia is fairly similar to there, Aussie girls are a bit better looking than Brits but not quite as slutty. I can't compare to the U.S because I've never been and from what I've seen overseas the quality can vary a lot by which part of the country they're from.

Post: #13

University of Maryland isn't the worst place to go to college, but is far from the best. As for the safety comment earlier in the thread the entire campus and everything north of the campus on Route 1 is very safe in my opinion. The area immediately south of the campus on Route 1 is also safe. If you go really far south on Route 1 into Hyattsville and Mount Rainer, it gets more dangerous, but I still don't think it's that bad. Really ugly female student body, especially for a school that size. Also, really bad restaurant choices. All joking aside, the Applebees on Route 1 may be the best restaurant around there. As for the water sports question, for surfing you have to take a three hour drive to Ocean City, Rehoboth, Dewey, or Bethany, or a three to four hour drive to the southern Jersey Shore. For boating, Annapolis is close and good for that.

Post: #14

(01-06-2017 10:40 AM)MANic Wrote:  how cheap is travelling within the US?
Also any idea of how good the water sport facilities are in Maryland?

Yes

Post: #15

Gaming wise - go to Maryland. If you're a decently jacked Saffer as you say I'm guessing you've got a rugby-ish look. Between that and the accent you'll appeal hugely to the American girls.

I've played rugby to a decent level for years (so have the body from it), have a middle class British accent, and dress preppy, and I always absolutely clean up in college towns in America. Its by far the easiest non beach-party gaming environment I've ever experienced, and I've traveled a lot. The American college drinking culture is also just amazing fun. Frat parties, keggers, tailgating for college football games etc. Its unique, and great.

Melbourne is a lovely city to be a 40 year old with a family in - good amenities, safe etc. But its absolutely horrendous for game if you're not a hipster. The problem is twofold: so many girls are unattractive hipsters, and so many girls want hipster men. Neither of which is good for a normal/jockish/preppy looking guy. And on top of that rent/beer/food prices are through the roof.

Another thing worth considering is you won't be able to go back and experience the American college party lifestyle when you're 30+. But you can easily travel to Melbourne and check out the nightlife there when you're that age. So if you do Maryland first, you can always do Melbourne later. But the reverse probably isn't true.

Post: #16

I just looked up where the University of Maryland actually is. 15km from the center of the nearest big city, and that city is Washington D.C? Damn son. You know what they say, logistics logistics logistics my friend. Bare in mind the University of Melbourne is smack dab in the heart of the city, the public transport network is very extensive and it runs 24/7 on weekends.

(01-06-2017 11:30 AM)zatara Wrote:  Melbourne is a lovely city to be a 40 year old with a family in - good amenities, safe etc. But its absolutely horrendous for game if you're not a hipster. The problem is twofold: so many girls are unattractive hipsters, and so many girls want hipster men. Neither of which is good for a normal/jockish/preppy looking guy. And on top of that rent/beer/food prices are through the roof.

This is spot on. I should add that to make things worse, even if you do have yellow fever for some reason the Asian girls born in Australia are the cuntiest of them all (I strongly suspect the same is true of Asian-American girls also) and almost all of the FOB's who you'd be going for would be Chinese, who are one of the least attractive Asian groups anyway.

Post: #17

Being south african changes everything. If you go to U of Maryland with a south african accent and are decent looking, you will have an amazing time. It really is that simple. And the sluts there really are that simple.

Reference point: I went to Maryland for undergrad (4 year uni). So if you have any more questions on campus life or surrounding city life, ask away.

Edit: and its not dangerous at all realistically. Nothing will happen to you unless you do something incredibly stupid or are part of a freak incident. Safety should play a 0% factor for you. The worst parts of DC and Maryland are like Pleasantville compared to South Africa.

Post: #18

I just graduated in May'16 from UMD and I cosign jackflag's post.

Post: #19

Australian here.

The hipster problem is overrated, the issue is you'll have no edge here, there is a huge rugby and gym+roids cultures, and it seems half of Johannesburg has already moved here.

In America you'll at least be something different.

Post: #20

(01-08-2017 04:46 AM)Transsimian Wrote:  Australian here.

The hipster problem is overrated, the issue is you'll have no edge here, there is a huge rugby and gym+roids cultures, and it seems half of Johannesburg has already moved here.

In America you'll at least be something different.

Have you ever lived in Melbourne? The rugby reference makes me strongly suspect you're from New South Wales or Queensland. Your advice is more suited to Australia generally, but isn't relevant for inner Melbourne or UoM where OP would be living and studying. Also I'm not sure what the deal is in other states but all the young South Africans in Melbourne moved here as children with their families and hence don't have accents. It is rare that you meet a single young adult South African that's come to Melbourne. What this means is being South African isn't considered exotic here, but having the accent definitely is.

Post: #21

Good point... I'm from Sydney.

Post: #22

It's relatively easy to assimilate in inner Melbourne if you can tone down any red pillness and fly under the radar but the question is: do you want to pretend to be a soft cock PC greenie (lefty) hipster... or do you want to be yourself?

To me it seems like it might be easier for you to be yourself in USA...

Post: #23

(01-09-2017 02:01 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  It's relatively easy to assimilate in inner Melbourne if you can tone down any red pillness and fly under the radar but the question is: do you want to pretend to be a soft cock PC greenie (lefty) hipster... or do you want to be yourself?

To me it seems like it might be easier for you to be yourself in USA...

I'd hardly place the USA on the whole as less left-wing than Australia, Trump presidency notwithstanding. Despite Melbourne's progressivism, it's hardly a giant SJW echo chamber. The leftist leanings are confined within the inner city suburbs, beyond that no-one really gives a fuck, especially with regards to the more SJW-ish talking points.

It's important to remember that Melbourne, at least in the outer suburbs, has seen a bit of sympathy for the UPF/Reclaim Australia movements, who are objectively way more right wing extremist than the manosphere/alt-right (two different kettles of fish I know). 2015 and 2016 saw clashes in Melbourne between UPF/RA and the SJW rent-a-mob.

Post: #24

(01-09-2017 10:44 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  It's hardly a giant SJW echo chamber. The leftist leanings are confined within the inner city suburbs, beyond that no-one really gives a fuck, especially with regards to the more SJW-ish talking points.

Fair point mate, and come weekend time, the CBD/inner city is flooded with people from all over Melbourne (and the world) anyway.

Post: #25

Gotta add my 2 cents.

UMD is just outside of Washington, DC. And you're doing your PhD?

Consider a couple points. Are you doing your doctorate in poli sci? Then go to UMD. The US Capital city. Research and connections count -- and the US comes to DC for meetings and conferences all the time.

Are you doing your doctorate in the humanities or social sciences? Consider that the Library of Congress in DC is the largest in the world. Will that help you out? Will that make your career?

Finally, an edutainment note. In the US, only DC rivals (or perhaps exceeds) New York City for museums in North America.

I had a GF from Madison, Wisconsin, who's step-dad got a job in DC for US Geographical Service (he was co-author of the leading atlas, "Goode's World Atlas," published by Rand McNally). She finished at George Mason University and did her master's at UMD. She enjoyed her study and play at both.

Remember - the WORLD comes to Washington, DC. But the world does not come to Australia, even if many, many folks dream of doing so. Does that make a difference to you, for your future? Only you can decide that!