Post: #1

My grandmother on my dad's side, who is financially well-off, bought me a bunch of government savings bonds when I was a kid. The bonds were supposed to be used to pay for college, and my dad has been holding onto them since I was a kid. They are currently in his safety deposit box at his bank. Keep in mind that the bonds have my name printed on them and legally belong to me.

Of the (approximately) $50,000 worth of bonds that was originally there, about $35,000 is left. The other $15,000 was spent on college tuition and other various expenses. I currently owe my dad $18,000 for an expensive trip to Europe that he paid for last summer (for which I agreed to pay him back), among other things. Since I have no savings, I agreed to pay him back by singing $18,000 worth of my savings bonds over to him.

I am 25, and I have been asking him to give me my bonds (which, again, legally belong to me) for several years, and he has always refused. He believes I will mismanage the money, and he wants to make sure I have enough left to pay for school.

Recently, he has been bugging me to go to the bank with him to sign the $18,000 in bonds over to him. The process involves me having to go to the bank with my dad, physically sign each individual bond, and authorizing the bank to deposit them into his account. Recently, it occurred to me that when he hands the bonds over for me to sign, I could just keep them, and there would be nothing he could do about it since they legally belong to me (of course, I would pay him the money I owe him from the remaining bonds that he is still holding on to).

I consulted with an attorney who told me that I have the legal right to keep the bonds if I wish. I also consulted with my local police precinct, and they told me that if my dad has the bonds on him and refuses to give them to me, I should call them (although they did not guarantee what exactly they would do in that situation).

Once I get the bonds, I intend to set aside enough to pay for 2 years of school, and use the rest to move out of my dad's house, pay off my car, and support myself until I find full-time work.

Keep in mind that my dad and I have not had a good relationship in years. As a matter of fact, nobody in his family really likes him. He has done things like getting me arrested for relatively minor shit, and alienating me from my extended family by telling them all sorts of negative shit about me that should not be shared. So no, I don't feel fucked up about doing this. I have wanted to move out of my dad's house ever since I moved back in, and this is my opportunity. Additionally, I have a girl who I want to live with and start a family in the not-too-distant future, so this is really a golden opportunity for me.

The attorney I spoke to told me I could sue my dad for the bonds, but I can't afford the legal fees right now, so I have 3 options:

Option 1: I go to the bank with my dad (letting him think I'm there to sign over the bonds to him), wait for him to hand me the bonds to sign, and then walk off with them. There will be 18 bonds worth $1000 each.

However, if he anticipates that I might do this, he may choose to hand the bonds over to me one-by-one. This means he will hand one $1000 bond over to me, wait for me to sign it and hand it to the bank teller, and then hand me the next one, and so on. If he does this, I will be forced to stop the transaction and simply demand he hand the rest of the bonds over to me. Of course, he will say no, and I will probably end up having to call the cops and physically restraining him until they get there, and he will probably lie and tell the cops I beat him up or something like that. He has lied to the cops to get me arrested before.

Option 2: I don't even wait until we get to the bank. As soon as my dad and I leave the house (and I know he is carrying the bonds in his bag), I alert the police about the situation. I then tell my dad that the police are on their way and he should give me the bonds. That way, I avoid making a scene inside the bank.

Option 3: I sue my dad without using an attorney. It would take weeks or months of full-time work for me to learn how to fill out the necessary documents correctly, and there is no guarantee that I would win the lawsuit. My dad could simply claim he does not have the bonds, and I would need to persuade a judge to issue a warrant to search his safety deposit box. By that point, he may have moved the bonds somewhere else. There are also court fees involved, I believe.

I know that ultimately, the decision is up to me. I just want to know what you guys think is the best way to go about doing this and having it go smoothly without any problems. I know for a fact that my dad will freak the fuck out and start screaming (and possibly lie to the cops that I was violent towards him) as soon as he realizes what is going on, and I just want to minimize the amout of problems this will cause me.

I realize I will probably get kicked out of my dad's house as soon as I do this, and I already have a place lined up where I can stay for a few weeks for free.

This is most likely going down on Wednesday or Thursday. I have been trying to stall as long as possible, but my dad keeps bugging me to do it.

PS: I'm not sure if this thread should be here or in the "Lifestyle" section. Feel free to move it if necessary.

Post: #2

What a raging douche. It's your money and you're legally entitled to it especially at 25.

Write up a letter kindly explaining to hand over the bonds that you are legally entitled to. In it, threaten legal consequences for failure to do so. Give him a deadline date. Keep a copy of the letter.

Send it via certified mail and keep the receipt so you know he got it.

When he fails to deliver, contact an attorney and sue him for the value of the bonds plus fees for your representation. He'll capitulate.

Post: #3

↑ To be honest, I kind of understand why he doesn't want to give them to me. I haven't exactly lived the most stable, exemplary life over the last several years, and it's not like he wants to keep the money for himself.

That being said, he is being a douche. I want my money and I'm going to do whatever is necessary to get a hold of it.

I would do what you said, but I can't afford to pay for an attorney right now.

Like I explained in my post, he wants me to go to the bank with him on Wednesday or Thursday (supposedly to sign the bonds over to him), and this will be my only opportunity to isolate him while he has the bonds on his person. If I let him know what my intentions are, then he will simply say "forget it" and leave the bonds in his safety deposit box.

Post: #4

So what's your point? You're using that money to get on your feet which is probably what you're grandfather wanted.

Go to the bank. If he tries any funny business get a lawyer. Again if you have to involve a lawyer involved you can get him to pay the attorney's fees as well. Take the one bond and use the cash to finance an attourney.

In essence, anything you do will invite the ire of your father. There's not an easy way to win everything here.

Post: #5

↑ Yeah of course. Obviously he's gonna be pissed. That's not what I'm worried about.

I just want to get this done without involving attorneys, if possible. The attorney I spoke to told me he would charge $2500 or something like that, which means I would need to borrow money from a friend or something.

Also, it's just simpler and easier if I can get it done without having to go through a whole legal process. If I sue him, he will likely reveal all sorts of information about my life that I don't want the government to know about (such as past violence and drug use, which can get me barred from owning firearms for life). I'd rather avoid the lawsuit.

Thank you for the advice. I appreciate it.

Post: #6

(01-03-2017 05:09 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  ↑ To be honest, I kind of understand why he doesn't want to give them to me. I haven't exactly lived the most stable, exemplary life over the last several years, and it's not like he wants to keep the money for himself.

If that's the case, then you don't have much of a moral argument, but you still have a legal one. Just be prepared, this will likely sever your connection with your dad. If you're cool with that, go ahead.

Post: #7

↑ Yeah, and I understand that. I doubt he would stop talking to me, but I'm quite certain I could forget about any financial help from him.

I've been considering this for months and I've decided I'm going to do it. I'm 25, and if I don't do it, I will likely be stuck living with my dad for the next year and a half while I finish school.

I realize the risks involved. However, if worse comes to worst and I run out of money and don't have a job, I always have family (on my mom's side) who will help me out, so it's not like I'm gonna end up homeless and sleeping under a bridge if things go wrong.

I guess I should have titled this thread "How should I take the bonds?" instead of "Should I take the bonds?"

Post: #8

I think the irony of this situation lies in your user name

Post: #9

(01-03-2017 05:43 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  I guess I should have titled this thread "How should I take the bonds?" instead of "Should I take the bonds?"

If that's the case, go with your dad to the bank and give him his $18K. If he flatly refuses to give you the remaining bonds, go here and get replacement certificates. Your dad never even has to know you did it.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/res...eplace.htm

Post: #10

You spend 18k in a summer trip to Europe?

If I was your dad I would beat you up. What you want is spend the money in shit. And your dad wants to be sure your not asking him money in 5-10 years. Spoiled brat. Instead of taking away the bonds what if you grab one of them and pay him a fucking dinner.
What if he charges you custody service idiot? Yeah that´s right. He doesn´t want to deliver them to you because he knows your reckless.

I have two sons. If one of them pulled up something like this. Some serious beating would happen.

Post: #11

(01-03-2017 07:39 AM)chakalaka Wrote:  You spend 18k in a summer trip to Europe?

If I was your dad I would beat you up. What you want is spend the money in shit. And your dad wants to be sure your not asking him money in 5-10 years. Spoiled brat. Instead of taking away the bonds what if you grab one of them and pay him a fucking dinner.
What if he charges you custody service idiot? Yeah that´s right. He doesn´t want to deliver them to you because he knows your reckless.

I have two sons. If one of them pulled up something like this. Some serious beating would happen.

18k is definitely a lot to spend on a trip to Europe. I did 2 weeks last Spring for about 2.5k and visited 10 cities (8 countries). Was the 18k up front or did this thing spiral out of control, cost-wise? If it's the latter and I was your dad I would be pissed too. I have a feeling there is more to this story.

Post: #12

You're 25 and an adult. If he thinks you're going to fuck up spending the money it's far too late for him to be attempting to change you

Post: #13

(01-03-2017 07:39 AM)chakalaka Wrote:  You spend 18k in a summer trip to Europe?

If I was your dad I would beat you up. What you want is spend the money in shit. And your dad wants to be sure your not asking him money in 5-10 years. Spoiled brat. Instead of taking away the bonds what if you grab one of them and pay him a fucking dinner.
What if he charges you custody service idiot? Yeah that´s right. He doesn´t want to deliver them to you because he knows your reckless.

I have two sons. If one of them pulled up something like this. Some serious beating would happen.

I did not spend 18k on a trip to Europe. I said "Trip to Europe and other expenses," which include past college tuition, and various other expenses.

Also, the trip was a month and a half long. It was not a short trip. And it involved driving from Madrid, Spain to St. Petersburg, Russia and back (with a stop in Rome, Italy).

Post: #14

(01-03-2017 07:45 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 07:39 AM)chakalaka Wrote:  You spend 18k in a summer trip to Europe?

If I was your dad I would beat you up. What you want is spend the money in shit. And your dad wants to be sure your not asking him money in 5-10 years. Spoiled brat. Instead of taking away the bonds what if you grab one of them and pay him a fucking dinner.
What if he charges you custody service idiot? Yeah that´s right. He doesn´t want to deliver them to you because he knows your reckless.

I have two sons. If one of them pulled up something like this. Some serious beating would happen.

18k is definitely a lot to spend on a trip to Europe. I did 2 weeks last Spring for about 2.5k and visited 10 cities (8 countries). Was the 18k up front or did this thing spiral out of control, cost-wise? If it's the latter and I was your dad I would be pissed too. I have a feeling there is more to this story.

Yes, of course there is more to the story. I said in one of my previous posts that I understand why my dad doesn't trust me with the money, and that I have not exactly lived a stable and exemplary life over the last several years. I am not going to go into details about that, since it is not relevant to the topic, but I'd be happy to share about it over PM or in another thread.

Also, I just mentioned in my last post that the 18k was not only for a trip to Europe. Less than half of it was for the trip, if I remember correctly. Definitely less than 10k.

Post: #15

(01-03-2017 07:39 AM)chakalaka Wrote:  You spend 18k in a summer trip to Europe?

If I was your dad I would beat you up. What you want is spend the money in shit. And your dad wants to be sure your not asking him money in 5-10 years. Spoiled brat. Instead of taking away the bonds what if you grab one of them and pay him a fucking dinner.
What if he charges you custody service idiot? Yeah that´s right. He doesn´t want to deliver them to you because he knows your reckless.

I have two sons. If one of them pulled up something like this. Some serious beating would happen.

I wish I had a dad like you. Seriously, I do. My dad has never been a real man and never taught me to be one. You might think I'm just being a little bitch complaining about my dad, but if I had the time to tell you all the stories (or better yet, if you actually met him), you would see what I'm talking about. Like I said in my original post, his own family doesn't even like him, and they avoid inviting him (and by extension, me and my sister) to family gatherings.

Of course, I am no saint myself, and no "innocent little victim" either. I have certainly earned my dad's distrust. As a matter of fact, this is precisely why my dad doesn't trust me with the money, and why I have to go through all this trouble to get my hands on it.

Unfortunately, if I ever want to see that money (within the forseeable future), I have to do this. Otherwise, I will be stuck living with my dad for the next 2 years (while I finish school), and bringing my girl to live under the same roof with us, which is a situation I desperately want to avoid.

Post: #16

My comments and recommendations, from what I understand:

1: You owe dad the $18K, so no matter what you do, you should repay the money and at least sign over that many in bonds to him first. I would not be surprised if in the future, you run out of all of the money, and need to re borrow the $18K you paid dad back. While it is not assured that dad would re lend you the money, it will at least be possible if you repay him now.

2: I am concerned that you are 25, and still have two more years of school left. It sounds like you do not have a four year degree yet, but you spent time on an expensive (and long?) trip to Europe. I would be worried that the remaining money is going to be spent on useless stuff.

3: After paying dad back, you are only going to have $17K left. I do not see how you will be able to finish school, move out and move in with a girl. I would recommend that you remain at home until you finish school and get a full time job.

4: I would recommend not moving in with the girl until you are finished with school and working a full time job. I fear that you are on road to starting a family in what I call 'reverse order', causing yourself all kinds of additional work and stress. The typical order for guys use to be: finish college or trade school, get married, start a family. Now for a lot of men the order is becoming reversed leading to all kinds of additional stress and work: start a family, get married, finish college or trade school. One of my relatives married into a family where things were done in reverse order. The men all typically ended up working 60 to 80 hours per week between full time jobs and completing school or trade while they had kids. This additional work and stress looks like it showed up in later years and virtually every single one of those men ended up dead in their 40s or 50s. In one year this extended family had 13 of the men pass away. NONE of them made it to retirement age. One of the guys was as young as 40. I would hate to see that happen to you. The women do not seem concerned because they all got a paid off house, life insurance and retirement savings when the husbands passed away, but the whole extended family is going to ruin with the up coming generation not wanting to have anything to do with the family business, and only about half of the upcoming generation even wanting to finish college. (As a side note, since none of them even want to finish college, which for many majors is just sitting in a classroom for four years in between going to parties, there is no way any of them would want to do a trade since then they would have to actually WORK in the trade to complete the training.)

For a number of years, I think I was viewed as a 'loser' by a lot of them, since I never married and never had kids. One of the reasons I did not do that is that I never felt secure enough in my job, and feared having to provide for a family if I was unemployed and broke. Not having a family or kids also allowed me the freedom to quit a few jobs when I got fed up with how things were going. Now many of those people that viewed me as a 'loser' are dead from all of the stress they put on themselves, their widows went and got boyfriends with the money left them, while I am free to do whatever I want and looking forward to at least a few more decades. While I do not have the money that some of them had, or the big the house, they are all dead and can't enjoy any of it anymore.

5: While the things dad is doing sounds terrible, it sounds like he is willing to do them to prevent you from ending up broke without finishing school. IF it sounded like dad wanted to keep the bonds for himself, my recommendation would be different, but it sounds like he is trying to prevent you from ending up broke with no degree or job, stuck living with a girlfriend and kid, when you are 30; and it sounds like you are dangerously close to going down that path.

If the girl is a good long term prospect, she should want to wait until you finish college and are working a full time job. If she is NOT a good prospect, then she will be all for you moving in with her, and probably paying for all kinds of stuff (or paying for everything) until your money runs out, at which point she would probably run off with someone else and start draining all of his money.

It sounds like your dad is terrified that you are going to end up at age 30 with no money, broke, no job and stuck with child support for the next 18 years. While I do not agree with dad lying about stuff to get you in trouble, I can see where someone would 'cross the line' in trying to prevent a disaster in a decade.

6: You should, if possible, try to finish school in less than the two years, maybe with taking courses over the summer would do it. Even if it takes two years, that is not that much time and then college would be finished, and you could move on to the next thing.

7: Whatever you decide, I implore you to make sure whatever you do makes sense so that on your 30th birthday you do not come back here to report that you wasted the time between now and your 30th birthday.

Hopefully, you come back here in two years to update us on how you finished college, are still with the girl, working full time, and expect to be starting a family soon.

Post: #17

The ingratitude is monstrous. This man has put a roof over your head, fed you, clothed you, funded your Europe trip, and you're even contemplating moving some slut into his house - yet you won't waste any time in badmouthing him. Despite your evident brattishness, your father is prepared to have you 'stuck' living with him for another two years whilst you finish school, potentially with some trollop you'll be bored of soon enough in tow, and is concerned enough about you to try to protect you from your own childishness with this money.

Obviously you're entitled to it by law, in extremis 25 can sometimes be the age of majority but you're there now, so there's no doubt about that. If your father gave you the money and made it a condition of you taking it that you got out of his house, then who could blame him. It might behoove you to consider everything this douchebag, who is less than a real man, has done for you - regardless of his undoubted flaws and personal foibles - before you burn every last bridge with him.

I don't know your family history, other than what's been posted here, but I've known enough kids who've had awful starts in life to know you've lived a charmed life for your father to still be babysitting you at 25. That, in itself, is a wonderful thing and looks a lot like love to me. Before you pour derision on it, you might think a little on the chances of ever having that kind of unconditional support in your life again. No bitch is going to give you that - if you live with your dad then it sounds like mum is out of the picture. Your sister will be good for some things in life, but will be sorely lacking for many of the things that really count. Are you really ready to throw away something so priceless for 30k?

Post: #18

Serious question, are you a drug addict? Because that is my first thought reading this. You owe him $18k, pay your debts like a man. Using saved money to move out when you don't have a source of income is a terrible, terrible idea, no wonder he is so worried about you.

Post: #19

Did you tell your girlfriend about the bonds? Did she tell you to do this or is in any way pressuring you?

Post: #20

Moving in with a girl at 25, while not having his own place and a degree, and severing his ties possibly with his father who supported him all these years, is gonna be another horrible choice next to the 18k Europe trip that this guy makes.

I seriously can not understand how someone can be this ungrateful to your father, who lent you money you needed and let you live with him way past teenage years? Even if he beats and abuses you you still cant deny that . He would be a shitty father and would be in jail in that case, but that still does not take away all the things he did for you.

Now you are here plotting out all the possible course of action to get your money back, with zero mention of how you plan to pay him back? Have some dignity.

And when things go badly with your girl (which it will by the way, given your situation), would you have the courage to ask him to shelter you again? I dont mean to be harsh, but I really doubt a 25 years old in your situation has the life experience to choose a good partner from the predatory women of USA.

Post: #21

Sounds like a really bad idea all around. You owe your dad 18k, and you're going to rob him and destroy that relationship forever if you go through with this.

Post: #22

OP,

While I do not know your personal life and all the details of the relationship with your father I am more inclined to agree with the posters who point out your situation as rather unstable and tipping the scales towards conflict will ultimately backfire.

-From a moral/honor POV -if you care about those things- you DO owe your old man a lot of cash, which you *can* and probably should pay now that you are able to (imagine if you don't and one day you're in the gutter and get a subpoena demanding you pay the money).
-If you were willing to start with legal artillery you can do as TheBeast1 said and pull on him the costs of a lawyer since you can't pay one (which itself is another reason you should think about your current financial situation more than going gung ho on those bonds) or pay the lawyer with parts of the funds (which again,will bring down your total cash count to a level it wasnt worth it going through all that shit).

-Courts and lawyer consulting are soul consuming business,and stressful as fuck,I speak of experience*
If you're in school or in some profession that requires you have a somewhat clear mind in order to be able to absorb and reflect the lessons then you can kiss it good-bye because your brain will be fried from constantly preparing measures and countermeasures.

-Even if you didn't pay your old man off, 35k just isn't that much money in the non daily market (real estate,education,investment.etc) and can go *POOF!* a lot faster than many would think.
If you did pay, then you've only got half that money, which is even less (enough to buy a new car maybe?Im not familiar with US prices)

*I had a fallout with my father that involved his trying to get me arrested on false charges and ultimately a lawsuit -initiated by me- which ended up in an out-of-court arrangement (through the proccess I also fell from grace with my entire family -and despite the fact that all of us are quite adept at surviving alone, that hurt a lot.
I was about age 22 when I pulled that rabbit out of my ass.


Am I saying "suck it up to your dad"? Definitely not,establish clear borders but right now it seems the odds are stacked against you if you are planning to finnish school,get a place and move in with your girl.
Take advantage of the fact that you live rent-free or quasi rent-free and save/invest but don't saw your own legs off out of pride
(I did and it did not end well).
If your dad really is a douchebag, then your success should be your revenge on him,sweeter than any paycheck.
If he is genuinely concerned about your burning the money away, perhaps in time, your perspective might change and you may even thank him!

Post: #23

delete

Post: #24

Rob, this sounds like a lot of unnecessary drama over just the remaining $17K (after you pay your dad back). Just get the new certs and move out. There's really no need to start family fights or call the police or contact lawyers.

Post: #25

Dupe