Post: #1

My typical policy on girls that flake is to go no contact for at least one month and re-open them later. Pretty low success rate doing this. Especially because after a girl flakes on me I consider her P&D material only. Really ruins my perceptions of a girl.

My main problem with it is that when a girl flakes on you, you know it's not because of whatever bullshit excuse she gives you. It's because she found someone else, didn't care enough, or some other equally detestable reason that sucks all the leverage right out of you. Usually it's flat out lack of respect.

Beyond initial flaking my frame is solid and I've increasingly been cultivating it. I rarely give a girl ultimatums because I believe the more often you do it the less effective it really is. However I always tell a girl very early on with a serious tone, usually during post sex honesty something like the following "ever since I was young I knew people make time for what they want to do. I'm very busy, I make time for the people I enjoy. So when someone flakes on me, a friend, in business, girls or whatever I tend to forget they exist. It's disrespectful and it's a waste of my time." Something along those lines.

I had it down so solid that the last girl that flaked on one of our evening fuck sessions begged me not to hate her and to give her a pass. I didn't but that's another story.

Girls flake, I get it. They are programmed to have a million different excuses at all times and they rationalize it in different ways. At large they are rarely held accountable. With this combination of societal conditioning women will flake with no remorse. It's always going to be like this.

Initially though how do you reduce flakey behavior without laying down the heavy shit I do 1-3 bangs in? Is rapport really the only way?

What's a good flake policy and how can I prevent it? I feel i'm limiting myself by hard nexting every girl that does it.

Post: #2

Quote:My typical policy on girls that flake is to go no contact for at least one month and re-open them later. Pretty low success rate doing this.

Here is the issue. You say that you have a low success rate doing this, but fail to change your methods. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Quote:I rarely give a girl ultimatums because I believe the more often you do it the less effective it really is. However I always tell a girl very early on with a serious tone, usually during post sex honesty something like the following "ever since I was young I knew people make time for what they want to do. I'm very busy, I make time for the people I enjoy. So when someone flakes on me, a friend, in business, girls or whatever I tend to forget they exist. It's disrespectful and it's a waste of my time."

You're telling rather than showing, and the timing is terrible to boot. She doesn't value your time because you're not setting the proper tone. She needs to be begging for your time, not the other way around. By telling her how much it bothers you when people flake, you've indirectly communicated that people do this to you often, so you're easy to walk on; therefore, she shouldn't value you or your time.

Quote:I had it down so solid that the last girl that flaked on one of our evening fuck sessions begged me not to hate her and to give her a pass.

So what? Women crave validation, but more than that, they want a man who won't put up with their shit. Did you fuck her again? Did you want to fuck her again? If the answer to the first question is no and the second question is yes, then you didn't win this battle.

Quote:Initially though how do you reduce flakey behavior without laying down the heavy shit I do 1-3 bangs in? Is rapport really the only way?

Quit laying down the heavy shit. Your speech clearly isn't working, so stop doing it. Practice abundance. A woman will know by your actions if you and your time are valuable. She'll know if you're desired because her flakiness rolls off your shoulder instead of creeping under your skin. There are others in line, and she just pushed herself to the back.

As for a good flaking policy, I think it depends on the situation. If I've never met the girl (i.e. a Tinder or OKC chick), my tolerance is a bit lower. If she comes up with a bullshit excuse without offering an alternative date, I'll either hard next or, if she's a 7+, I'll send out a feeler a week or two later.

If it's a girl on rotation, it depends on her excuse and her desire to make it up to me. I've had girls on rotation flake before--if she gives me a bullshit reason, I simply don't respond and let nature take its course. Some girls go into hyper drive and beg to make it up to me, others simply fall off the map. It happens.

Never let on that you're bothered by a flake. Remember, your time is valuable, so show that rather than tell it. Go out with other people and have a good time. Post pictures of your fun night on social media. Little shit like that can go a long way to show her that you are interesting, there are other people in your life, and your time is valuable. I've done that before and had girls who had flaked message me the next day: "Looks like you had fun last night." And then I work that into a bang either that night or later that week.

Post: #3

Quote:You're telling rather than showing, and the timing is terrible to boot. She doesn't value your time because you're not setting the proper tone. She needs to be begging for your time, not the other way around. By telling her how much it bothers you when people flake, you've indirectly communicated that people do this to you often, so you're easy to walk on; therefore, she shouldn't value you or your time.

I didn't think of it this way. You're right.

Quote:She'll know if you're desired because her flakiness rolls off your shoulder instead of creeping under your skin. There are others in line, and she just pushed herself to the back.

Same line of thought.

I get stuck in a loop and think in B&W sometimes. It's important to be fluid and have good fundementals. Thank you

Post: #4

(12-28-2016 02:02 PM)Serious Sam Wrote:  

Quote:My typical policy on girls that flake is to go no contact for at least one month and re-open them later. Pretty low success rate doing this.

Here is the issue. You say that you have a low success rate doing this, but fail to change your methods. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Quote:I rarely give a girl ultimatums because I believe the more often you do it the less effective it really is. However I always tell a girl very early on with a serious tone, usually during post sex honesty something like the following "ever since I was young I knew people make time for what they want to do. I'm very busy, I make time for the people I enjoy. So when someone flakes on me, a friend, in business, girls or whatever I tend to forget they exist. It's disrespectful and it's a waste of my time."

You're telling rather than showing, and the timing is terrible to boot. She doesn't value your time because you're not setting the proper tone. She needs to be begging for your time, not the other way around. By telling her how much it bothers you when people flake, you've indirectly communicated that people do this to you often, so you're easy to walk on; therefore, she shouldn't value you or your time.

Quote:I had it down so solid that the last girl that flaked on one of our evening fuck sessions begged me not to hate her and to give her a pass.

So what? Women crave validation, but more than that, they want a man who won't put up with their shit. Did you fuck her again? Did you want to fuck her again? If the answer to the first question is no and the second question is yes, then you didn't win this battle.

Quote:Initially though how do you reduce flakey behavior without laying down the heavy shit I do 1-3 bangs in? Is rapport really the only way?

Quit laying down the heavy shit. Your speech clearly isn't working, so stop doing it. Practice abundance. A woman will know by your actions if you and your time are valuable. She'll know if you're desired because her flakiness rolls off your shoulder instead of creeping under your skin. There are others in line, and she just pushed herself to the back.

As for a good flaking policy, I think it depends on the situation. If I've never met the girl (i.e. a Tinder or OKC chick), my tolerance is a bit lower. If she comes up with a bullshit excuse without offering an alternative date, I'll either hard next or, if she's a 7+, I'll send out a feeler a week or two later.

If it's a girl on rotation, it depends on her excuse and her desire to make it up to me. I've had girls on rotation flake before--if she gives me a bullshit reason, I simply don't respond and let nature take its course. Some girls go into hyper drive and beg to make it up to me, others simply fall off the map. It happens.

Never let on that you're bothered by a flake. Remember, your time is valuable, so show that rather than tell it. Go out with other people and have a good time. Post pictures of your fun night on social media. Little shit like that can go a long way to show her that you are interesting, there are other people in your life, and your time is valuable. I've done that before and had girls who had flaked message me the next day: "Looks like you had fun last night." And then I work that into a bang either that night or later that week.

^ Nailed it.

Post: #5

I appreciate the rep LV.

Post: #6

My take on the flake policy is based on the nature of the flake. Genuine? A real accident, a real emergency, a real event that prevents the meet up? I'll reschedule one more time after that. A bullshit flake/lie? Her cat blew up, the subway magically is on fire, her friend needs comfort cause her fwb isn't texting back? Delete her number. You don't need the pussy, it's not water. However I always need my respect as a man.

I remember the shit I'd put with before I started to really let my nuts hang and hold these bitches to a standard. You have to think, if this was a sale at Sephora or Forever 21 would she not be in line at 7 am on boxing day? If I was Trey Songz, Matthew McCoughney or Usher would she be 30 minutes late or blatantly lie? Would it be hard to get a text back? Of course not. If David Beckham sent a DM to a girl to be at a certain shopping mall and not to be a minute late, would she be late? Hell no. Their time would be treated as an opportunity. She'd be an hour early.

When you're too lenient with your flake policy and chase after those who don't honour your arrangements, you become part of the bigger problem within the bigger picture. You join guys that push the price up on pussy by giving their attention away at bargain bin prices. I feel like the dating world be a better place if guys tightened up and hoes started to realize there won't be any Instagram likes or unread texts if they don't shape up.

Post: #7

If it appears to be a genuine emergency like Mayweather said, then carry on and cut her some slack. I think the key distinction is that if she had to flake for a good reason, she ought to let you know instead of giving you radio silence. Any woman that gives me radio silence and doesn't explain why she has to bail ahead of time isn't worth my time. That's just common courtesy. If she's still showing interest and makes a counter-offer as to a better time to meet, then she is on my good side. If she keeps blowing me off, that means the interest level wasn't that high to begin with, and it is time to move on. Begging and handing out interest when the offers aren't reciprocated is rather humiliating as a man. There comes a time when a man must move on to more interested women instead of trying to revive a corpse of disinterest.

Post: #8

Depends what kind of flake. If she messages to cancel in advance because of some excuse, I'll try again another time if I think she's worth the effort (maybe next week or 2 weeks). If she flakes close to the date, i.e. I've confirmed when/where and I've already left my house, it's generally don't even bother messaging again. If she thinks low enough of you to do that (i.e. she was just putting you in a pending list of options and chose to go out with her friends instead or someone else or stay home) there's basically no chance anyway. At most I'd ping her again in the future if she's something special, in case her circumstances changed.

That said, I don't live in America, fortunately. I don't think I've ever had a flake rate (real flakes, not just rescheduling that didn't inconvenience me) higher than 10% anywhere in the east. Probably less than that even, given I can't remember the last time it happened.

Post: #9

Flaky chicks I just either pump and dump or cut off. Got no time for that BS.

Post: #10

Reviving this cuz I'm dealing with a flake that happens to be in my extended social circle. She says one things with her words then does the opposite... She'll text me back and say she wants to hang out and I'll tell her to hit me up when she's free and she doesn't.

I wait a week and hit her up again. She texts me back and I say let's do tomorrow afternoon and she says "ok I might be free".

I'm thinking to myself Nah. No more of this vague bullshit lol I tell her a general time frame to meet up to kind of set it in stone and now she's radio silent.

After this if she doesn't meet up with me I'm charging it to the game and only interacting with her when I run into her in person. So tired of the part of the game where getting a woman to hang out is as difficult as herding cats. Especially chicks I've already made out with or hooked up with.

Why is it SO FUCKING HARD to get a woman to commit to a date and time... If I wasn't already bald I'd pull my hair out.

Post: #11

(04-14-2017 12:37 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  Why is it SO FUCKING HARD to get a woman to commit to a date and time... If I wasn't already bald I'd pull my hair out.

She's not feeling you.

Post: #12

(04-14-2017 01:42 PM)Jack_Smith Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 12:37 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  Why is it SO FUCKING HARD to get a woman to commit to a date and time... If I wasn't already bald I'd pull my hair out.

She's not feeling you.

That's the conclusion I came to as well. I was confused because she seems really willing to hang out whenever we talk. Saying things like "oh yeah I'd love to that sounds great" but then when it's actually time to chill she's silent.

Her actions tell me everything I need to know. Like I said I asked her out once and she had an excuse. This is the second time and if it doesn't go down this weekend I will charge it to the game.

I'm pretty much restarting my "roster" after dropping two of my regular fuckbuddies and so it's frustrating to not have a chick immediately fall in line. I've been hittin the same girls since January so I got used to having pussy be a phone call away. It's just annoying to be spittin tight game and having girls make out with you, tell you how attractive you are, agree to a date, then in the end be flaky. Flaking is my least favorite part of the game. It baffles my mind sometimes how fickle and flaky women can be. I will never in my life understand it.

Oh well time to talk to more bitches lol.

Post: #13

(04-14-2017 01:55 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  I was confused because she seems really willing to hang out whenever we talk. Saying things like "oh yeah I'd love to that sounds great" but then when it's actually time to chill she's silent.

She's non-confrontational. Will likely never tell you "No" directly. AWALT

(04-14-2017 01:55 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  Her actions tell me everything I need to know.

Yes. Everything else is noise.

(04-14-2017 01:55 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  Like I said I asked her out once and she had an excuse.

As others have pointed out, it is not clear to me that she actually "flaked" in the sense that I would use the word, i.e. that you asked her out, she accepted, and then she either no showed or bailed at the last minute. Sounds more like you are saying "hey, let's hang out." She says "OK." Then you subsequently ask her out for a specific date and she turns you down or ghosts.

Turning you down is not "flaking" (IMHO).

(04-14-2017 01:55 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  Like I said I asked her out once and she had an excuse.

Again, she will never tell you "No" directly. If she says she can't make it either A) it's true, or B) she's being nice but not interested. Your job is to discern which. If she has previously invested in our thing, puts out like a champ, has a history of doing what she says she will do, or offers an alternative date, I am inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt and schedule her up for next week or whatever. Conversely, if she is uninvested (as your girl seems to be), has a history of bs, and doesn't offer an alternative date, I am inclined to believe that she is just not that interested. You already know the playbook from there - soft next or next.

(04-14-2017 01:55 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  It's just annoying to be spittin tight game and having girls make out with you, tell you how attractive you are, agree to a date, then in the end be flaky. Flaking is my least favorite part of the game.

Respectfully, coming from an admitted newb with near zero game, you may want to consider whether your game is as tight as you imagine, given that you are dissatisfied with your outcome...

(04-14-2017 01:55 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  It baffles my mind sometimes how fickle and flaky women can be. I will never in my life understand it.

Female Psych 101.

Post: #14

Because they don't know what they want? They creatures of the moment? Think of them like little children, treat them like little children when it comes to romance and sex.

Post: #15

(04-14-2017 02:44 PM)Jack_Smith Wrote:  Respectfully, coming from an admitted newb with near zero game, you may want to consider whether your game is as tight as you imagine, given that you are dissatisfied with your outcome...

I'm not a master but far from a newbie. My game was clean. It was precision social circle game dude I knew when I left the house I would be getting with this girl even though we'd barely talked, barely knew each other, never hooked up before. It was simply a chick I knew I wanted and knew I would get. The only reason I didn't smash that very night we were hooking up is I got kicked out of a party by her racist friends as soon as I got there.

I opened the door to use the bathroom and opened the wrong door. Two guys come up and kick me out saying I can't be allowed in the house I guess because they thought I was trying to rob them. Which is ludicrous cuz I didn't even enter the room I closed it and then opened the next door which was the bathroom. Either that or they were player hating and needed a reason to kick me out since it was all her friends and I knew no one there.

If it wasn't for that bullshit I would have smashed that night.

I mean how much more do you want me to do when up until I got kicked out we're making out and she's telling me how she's super attracted to me. Short of getting my dick sucked or fucking her on the spot there's not much to do from there.

But women are fickle so after that BS now I'm basically starting over. Which goes to show anytime you get physical with a woman and don't have sex that very same night, it's basically a failure in my opinion. Like a wasted arrow.

Post: #16

I make no time for flakes. Life is too short.

Post: #17

(01-03-2017 01:31 AM)Mayweather Wrote:  My take on the flake policy is based on the nature of the flake. Genuine? A real accident, a real emergency, a real event that prevents the meet up? I'll reschedule one more time after that. A bullshit flake/lie? Her cat blew up, the subway magically is on fire, her friend needs comfort cause her fwb isn't texting back? Delete her number. You don't need the pussy, it's not water. However I always need my respect as a man.

Yes this is my policy. Sometimes a flake is real world shit getting in the way, it happens you know.

Trick is sorting out the real flake form the bullshit, and it doesn't take long to work it out.

I know its a pain in the ass giving everyone some "starting credit" before you can work out, but its the only way. Without that you are missing opportunities and loosing out on some real bangs due to life's little obstacles.

So lighten up a bit and just go with a little leeway until you see a bad pattern, then get nukey.

Post: #18

(12-28-2016 05:10 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  My main problem with it is that when a girl flakes on you, you know it's not because of whatever bullshit excuse she gives you. It's because she found someone else, didn't care enough, or some other equally detestable reason that sucks all the leverage right out of you. Usually it's flat out lack of respect.

It's not lack of respect - it's lack of interest, period. If she's into you, she'll act respectfully; if not, you'll get dissed sooner or later.

So your best flake policy should be: "I don't give a fuck, because I'm not invested enough in her".

The best way to deal with flaking is to not become too invested in the girl. It's a lesson I've unfortunately had to learn the hard way. By 'invested in the girl' I mean one or more of the following:

a. spent too much time on her - either directly with her, or thinking/obsessing abt her
b. spent too much money on her

And really, there's no point in texting/calling - by then, it's already too late. She's moved on and it's unlikely you'll be able to turn it around. Your time and efforts are best spent elsewhere.

Post: #19

(04-17-2017 10:46 PM)jselysianeagle Wrote:  

(12-28-2016 05:10 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  My main problem with it is that when a girl flakes on you, you know it's not because of whatever bullshit excuse she gives you. It's because she found someone else, didn't care enough, or some other equally detestable reason that sucks all the leverage right out of you. Usually it's flat out lack of respect.

It's not lack of respect - it's lack of interest, period. If she's into you, she'll act respectfully; if not, you'll get dissed sooner or later.

So your best flake policy should be: "I don't give a fuck, because I'm not invested enough in her".

That's my conclusion nowadays as well. I made this thread a few months ago trying to grasp why women would flake at all and what it meant. I was getting way too invested into these girls. I always knew it was disinterest but I was getting personally offended for some reason or another.

I don't even get offended now - I just go down the list and think of the things I didn't or couldn't do and it makes sense. Every once in a while I get blindsighted but the answer is usually a more interesting dick appeared.

Post: #20

Charging it to the game after the 2nd attempt.

Turn me down once? I'll give the benefit of the doubt even though I'm 99% sure the girl is full of shit anyway. Turn me down twice and I'm done.

At this point I feel like I should ignore even if she tries to contact me.

Post: #21

This snippet by serious sam changed the way I thought about flakes and having any rigid views or policies.

Quote:So what? Women crave validation, but more than that, they want a man who won't put up with their shit. Did you fuck her again? Did you want to fuck her again? If the answer to the first question is no and the second question is yes, then you didn't win this battle.

A girl doesn't have to respect me to get some dick, it's even better that way cuz I'll spit in her mouth and nut in here hair and she'll have a hard sitting down or walking the next day. I haven't met a girl yet that is not at least temporarily humbled by a rough hour of degrading sex. I'm not saying take their disrespect I'm just saying handle it in another way than saying "kick rocks". Ghost and restart is better, not even reacting to a flake is best I've found. "Haha, np" and wait for her to re-open you while you smash other girls.

Post: #22

Good anti-flake policy is to never put yourself up in a position to be flaked.

How to do that? Don't make appointments with girls many hours/days before. In our day and era, this only brings unnecessary anxiety. I see guys making appointments to go out with girl X one week previous, when she flakes it is like a blow to the stomach. In our current vapid and fast society, the way to go is to call her and say "Listen X, I am going to pick you up in one hour for drinks/whatever!", she can't flake, she will say yes or no. Move forward if it is the last outcome.

Post: #23

(04-18-2017 06:37 PM)Rocha Wrote:  Good anti-flake policy is to never put yourself up in a position to be flaked.

How to do that? Don't make appointments with girls many hours/days before. In our day and era, this only brings unnecessary anxiety. I see guys making appointments to go out with girl X one week previous, when she flakes it is like a blow to the stomach. In our current vapid and fast society, the way to go is to call her and say "Listen X, I am going to pick you up in one hour for drinks/whatever!", she can't flake, she will say yes or no. Move forward if it is the last outcome.

And how many times have you implemented this strategy since girls have endless supplies of validation through online social media and dating apps? How has this strategy worked out for you in the last 6 months?

Post: #24

After two weeks of messaging each other occasionally, I call her yesterday. She doesn't answer, but messages me later that she'll call me later that evening. Then doesn't. This was two days ago, I haven't messaged her since. Is this considered a flake? Or are we talking purely in terms of meeting?

Post: #25

If you mattered to her, she'd text/call you. Next. (Or re-engage in a month's time but resucitating stale leads... better to generate fresh prospects).