Post: #1

Quality of Women: 5/5
Ease of Hooking Up: 4/5 among English speakers, 2/5 among non English speakers
Things to Do: 2/5
Time Spent there: three weeks
Lays: 6
Executive Summary: A gray and boring a place to visit but full of very, very hot girls.

The Basics: There are already some posts about Odessa, Kiev and Russia. Since I don’t want to sound repetitive I titled this post after one of the small cities I visited in Ukraine, however this is good for all Ukraine and Russia. I hope to write any time soon a more detailed data sheet about two or three specific small Ukrainian cities. I am posting this comment more as introduction to Ukraine than a specific data sheet. Ukraine is a paradise for those PUAs who play by some simple rules. Economic collapse, migration, wars and alcoholism have decimated the male population of Ukraine (and Russia), so the seduction game is completely stacked in a male’s favor. The material to play is simply the best. Ukrainian women are tall, skinny and feminine. Most of them took ballet or gymnastics lessons at an early age, so they have incredible bodies. They are educated, can talk to you about books, plays, local historical sites, etc. However, it’s important to note that women in those places don’t jump into the first man who walks down the street; Ukrainian girls are taught that their biggest asset is their youth and beauty, and that they should marry before 25. So, every nubile girl is looking for a husband. No matter if she has agreed to fuck with you, she wants to know that the man she’s getting laid is worth it. Said that, pay attention to this:
You have to be confident, but not arrogant. Don’t you behave like an idiot. Don’t you behave like your average Joe Six Pack who is in a sports bar, or an Italian drunk tourist who harasses anything wearing a skirt.
Dress properly. Don’t you wear shorts, sport shoes or shirts. Put your Dockers on and a long sleeve shirt. Remove any piercing you have.
The biggest barrier is of course, language. If you can take an intensive, basic one month Russian course is worth it. If not, you can curve it, but your chances would be cut by two thirds.
Downtown targeted day game is the key. The easiest way to start contact is going to a coffee shop and ask for anything, whether if a seat is taken, a direction or if you can buy tea instead of coffee in that place. I know it’s difficult but travelling with a buddy is the best you can do. Get into any coffee shop and start talking with him (English, Spanish, etc.) while you are in the line and you would immediately attract the attention of every girl there.
The GMW move never fails. In every town and city of Ukraine there is a place or story about WWII (they call it the Great Motherland War, GMW); whether the site of a bloody battle or a monument (most of the times an old tank mounted on a concrete cube placed in a park). Ask for directions to visit those places. By doing this you have a conversation topic and you show you are a serious person. Yes, I know you care a shit about History, but you want your foot in the door, ain’t you?
English is spoken for only 10% of people. Some parents, concerned that their daughters have little chances of getting married with local men, pay for English classes for them. The bigger the city (Kiev, Ukraine, Sebastopol, Lugansk, Odessa) the more chances of finding English speaking girls.
Be neutral about Russia. Eastern Ukrainians love Russia, Western Ukrainians hate Russia.
Once you have made contact, play direct game. Ukrainian and Russian women like to be dominated. They don’t like pussyfied men.
In bed they like spankings and hair pulling. Don’t ask for anal, just do it directly.

Things To Do: There is not much to do in Ukraine. Clubs are outdated (under Western standards), restaurants are austere and the beaches are awfully cold.
If you still want to go to a club, ask in your hotel’s front desk for advice. Be prepared to spend at least $100 in alcohol. The clubs could be awful, but they cash nicely. Women in clubs are more cosmopolitan and so there is a better chance that they speak English. Be prepared to watch some stunning blondes who could be in Cosmopolitan or Playboy pages in those places.
The only good thing about Ukrainian beaches is that the water is very cold and Ukrainian women love to dive in cold water. As soon as they get out, you can see their slender wet bodies and erected nipples barely covered by tiny thongs. In small towns it’s pretty common to take a dive in freezing rivers and small lakes.
If you go to a restaurant with a girl, ask for Borsch and tell her that you want to compare this soup with the Russian style Borsch you are used to eat in the Russian restaurant there is in your city. She would tell you 10 reasons why Ukrainian cuisine is better and you would make points.

Racism: I am a light brown skin Mexican. I didn’t feel or experience any racist feeling against me. On the contrary, I think my skin color played as a curiosity factor, so I attracted many women. Maybe someone can tell a different story.

Post: #2

Great contribution. First a couple preliminary questions:

1. Where did your lays come from? Day, night, or internet?

2. You claim that 10% of girls speak English, yet assign a 4/5 ease of hooking up for English speakers. This is somewhat contradictory. What do you think of Entropy4's recent suggestion that basically no girl in Odessa spoke English? What did you do to find so many english speakers?

Post: #3

(08-16-2011 01:55 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Great contribution. First a couple preliminary questions:

1. Where did your lays come from? Day, night, or internet?

2. You claim that 10% of girls speak English, yet assign a 4/5 ease of hooking up for English speakers. This is somewhat contradictory. What do you think of Entropy4's recent suggestion that basically no girl in Odessa spoke English? What did you do to find so many english speakers?

As for question #1.
One from Internet, five from day game. Before travelling I contacted a girl from Kiev through the site http://www.travelgirls.com. Big mistake! One of the most expensive mistakes I have made with women. She was 21 and fully bilingual. A stunning 100 lb, 5’5’ brunette. I met her in Kiev and she showed me around. On the very first day I told her to choose a place for having dinner and she took me to a mall called “Mandarin Plaza”. The place is very fancy and it has a food court. When leaving she stared at a boutique looking at some dresses. I got the message and spent $75 (a fortune in Ukraine) in a tiny summer dress. Then, she told me: Let’s go to your hotel to see how I look. We spent two more days in Kiev and then we went for three days to Odessa, then I took her back to Kiev. After a whole week with her and some $1,500 spent we kissed good bye.
When in Kiev I realized that English speaking people, also women, gather around places like malls, also in the weekend. Kiev is the most westernized city of Ukraine. They don’t speak perfect English, but it’s well enough to get you understood. A good number of the girls working in the stores and boutiques speak a decent level of English and they are particularly beautiful (they have a foreign clientele). You can focus over there. Although I took some Russian lessons, I stopped trying from the second day because I couldn’t understand the accent. My next stop was Kherson. A small but intense port city. In my train way from Kiev (yes, train) I met an American and we decided to tag for a couple of days. In Kherson we used the trick mentioned above. We went downtown to a coffee shop and we started talking a little loudly in English. All the girls around turned their heads to us, but I spotted three girls (very solid 8s) who were in the line and then sit next to us and looked very interested in our talking, like trying to overhear to us. So, I made my move. I told my friend to pretend that he spoke Spanish. So I started talking to him in Spanish. Needless to say that the girls were very intrigued by then. So, I stood up like if I were in my way to the restroom and found the faces of these girls begging to be talked to. So, I told them in English “Sorry, I am teaching my friend to speak Spanish because he wants to impress beautiful devotchkas (women in Russian)”. Two of them laughed and replied. “English is good enough. We understand it”. Click, we got our foot in the door! I went to the restroom and came back just to ask the girls to join us. They accepted, the rest was basic and solid game.
My last lay was in Melitopol, a small city located in the middle of nowhere famous for some WWII battles. I could realize some things there. First, the incredible beauty of countryside Ukrainian girls worth of any fashion runway. Every Ukrainian city or town has a good number of parks and gardens. In the afternoons, young women in simple dresses show up in the parks from the horrible soviet style apartments buildings they live in and walk down the gardens like unguided sheep, begging for some love. Second, even if you speak a little Russian you are going to have some trouble gaming a girl in a small town, because those girls are looking for husbands and they don’t want to cheap themselves to the eyes of all the people in town. Some parents are so worried about their daughter’s future that they find a way to pay for English lessons, so they can find a foreign husband. Once I read that when those girls contact a foreigner and agree on a date. The meeting is usually arranged in a big city, not the girl’s town. Why? Basically, because a number of peanut headed idiots from everywhere have stormed Ukraine pretending to be marriage material. If a two bit asshole shows up in a woman’s house before her parents in a first date, everybody in town would know about it and the poor girl would be the laughing stock for a good deal of time. That’s why first dates are usually set up in the anonymity of big cities like Kiev or Odessa. Fortunately, in Melitiopol I could find an 18 years old girl so carefree and so immature to give a shit about parental and social wisdom that I could lay with her.
I must confess that night game (club and bar game) is not my best. I went back to Arcadia in Odessa and I did poorly.

As for question #2.
Entropy4’s claim is right. I would suggest anyone interested in going to Odessa or Ukraine in general to gather around big fancy tourist attractions where the locals need to know English or have the means to learn it. The nuggets of gold are there, just look for them. And maybe it’s time for some Russian lessons. And a lot of game, game game!

P. S. Enjoy Melitopol's biggest atraction http://goo.gl/HS8ip

Post: #4

Welcome and what a solid post!!!

Post: #5

When you find the English speakers, I'd agree that the ease is 4/5. The hard part is just finding them.

Agree about being overheard speaking English. Unfortunately, that never happened in Odessa, but that happened a number of times in Russia. I'd speak English with someone and people around us would look over and start staring (in a good way).

Post: #6

(08-16-2011 08:28 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  When you find the English speakers, I'd agree that the ease is 4/5. The hard part is just finding them.

Agree about being overheard speaking English. Unfortunately, that never happened in Odessa, but that happened a number of times in Russia. I'd speak English with someone and people around us would look over and start staring (in a good way).

Entropy/Luvianka, how would one do if they speak fluent Russian (with accent) but have weak game (me) and look like a local (I am originally from Eastern Europe). Would this help me or hurt me as based on Luvianka's post foreigners, especially of the exotic type (Mexican, olive skinned) tend to get a lot of looks.

A little background on me, I have a very hard time executing day game and approaching random women on the street. Usually, my best approaches are in social places such as concerts, bars, etc. where I know that a good amount of women are there looking for guys.
Also, would dressing up (G Manifesto style) in a suite be "suitable" or would that be overkill in the Kiev clubs and invite unwanted attention from the local criminal element?
Please advise as I am about ready to go

Post: #7

If you eliminated language barriers and pre-selection (which you'd basically be doing if you're fluent in Russian), my guess is women over there are easier to approach and hook, as they don't play games and have less attitude, but harder to lay, as they're more traditional and will offer you absolutely no help on the escalation front.

It's hard to say, but definitely go and give it a run. It'll be great experience for you.

The gold mine is if you become fluent in Russian AND have game AND are a foreigner. I got two of the three. Now just gotta get my Russian up to snuff.

Post: #8

(08-16-2011 09:20 PM)Hokie30 Wrote:  

(08-16-2011 08:28 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  When you find the English speakers, I'd agree that the ease is 4/5. The hard part is just finding them.

Agree about being overheard speaking English. Unfortunately, that never happened in Odessa, but that happened a number of times in Russia. I'd speak English with someone and people around us would look over and start staring (in a good way).

Entropy/Luvianka, how would one do if they speak fluent Russian (with accent) but have weak game (me) and look like a local (I am originally from Eastern Europe). Would this help me or hurt me as based on Luvianka's post foreigners, especially of the exotic type (Mexican, olive skinned) tend to get a lot of looks.

A little background on me, I have a very hard time executing day game and approaching random women on the street. Usually, my best approaches are in social places such as concerts, bars, etc. where I know that a good amount of women are there looking for guys.
Also, would dressing up (G Manifesto style) in a suite be "suitable" or would that be overkill in the Kiev clubs and invite unwanted attention from the local criminal element?
Please advise as I am about ready to go

Are you fluent in Russian? If yes, you have half the way already done. The rest is basic game, you know, being charming but aloof, not to look needy. You can play anywhere, anytime. Go directly to Odessa, and if you haven’t booked a hotel, look for an apartment, they are rented on a weekly base. It’s less expensive and gives you more options (like hosting a little party). Ask women for directions, let her know that you are an American tourist and you want to go some place, that simple. They would appreciate that you learned the language and conversation would follow. Do you live in the USA? Being American or an American citizen is a plus as long as you don’t behave like Joe Six Pack. You don’t need to dress up, I wrote about clothes because I could see many Americans wearing shorts and their ‘Federal Boobs Investigator’ T-Shirts over their beer guts. They looked ridicule. Dockers clothes are fine. Ukraine is in many ways a conservative values society, but with a nice window (a demographic imbalance) which gives any average PUA plenty of joy.

Post: #9

Yeah, dress nice. Not flashy. Rent a nice apartment (they're super cheap). Let them know you're American, and just start approaching. You approach enough with that and something will happen.

Post: #10

so there is no race herarchy in this place Op?

Post: #11

Great post, I also plan to visit the area soon, though I'm aware there are not that easy but I prefer to work hard for a quality one than the easy lays in east Asia. 6 lays in 3 weeks that's almost 1 girl per 3 nights, I wish I will have the same ratio.

Can you elaborate on Kherson? I actually heard its a heaven there, girls wise, some practical info like lodging, and how to get there would be also good.
Regarding http://www.travelgirls.com - I'm also there but it seems like a fake, I was surprised that you got a real girl from there though she was expensive.

Post: #12

6 lays in 3 weeks! I have not been this shocked since I read Argentina can be a fuckfest.

Post: #13

Any pictures on the caliber of women you were banging?

Post: #14

Was it six different girls, or six lays from three girls?

Post: #15

(08-18-2011 05:41 AM)Marco Wrote:  Great post, I also plan to visit the area soon, though I'm aware there are not that easy but I prefer to work hard for a quality one than the easy lays in east Asia. 6 lays in 3 weeks that's almost 1 girl per 3 nights, I wish I will have the same ratio.

Can you elaborate on Kherson? I actually heard its a heaven there, girls wise, some practical info like lodging, and how to get there would be also good.
Regarding http://www.travelgirls.com - I'm also there but it seems like a fake, I was surprised that you got a real girl from there though she was expensive.

Logistics is an issue in Ukraine. A friend of mine who studied in the old Soviet Union and who married a soviet woman warned me long before that the bus service is awful. So, train is a better option (or plane if you can afford it). However you need to ask for advice in your hotel's front desk. Take into consideration that moving from one city to other can take you at least half a day if not one. Concentrate in Kiev, Odessa and Lyvov, Kherson. If you are really audacious I was told that there is a nudist beach in Koktebel (I didn't go there, by the way). Kherson is a small port city, but this season has a large inflow of tourists that helps to relax the environment.
As for http://www.travelgirls.com, I just can tell you that it was real for me. The worst that it can happen is that the lady never shows up. I mean you are not sending money to her. Take some cautions, anyway.

Post: #16

(08-18-2011 06:51 AM)Richie Wrote:  6 lays in 3 weeks! I have not been this shocked since I read Argentina can be a fuckfest.

If you want to see a fuckfest go to Cancún on Spring Break. Things go a little tasteless even for me.

Post: #17

6 lays in 3 weeks is admirable for any man... The fact you did it in possibly one of the hardest countries in the world turns everything we have read on this forum on its head. Good work.
*Packs bags.

Post: #18

Koktebel..yes ,a naturist resort/beach.Just google naturist Ukraine.
Lots of Pure beauties,teens ,20's ,30's take your pick....gaming in da nude could be interesting!

Check this vid:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...4040494295

Post: #19

I signed up for travelgirls.com. You have to pay 59 euros to read or send mail. Give me a fucking break.

I'm in Ukraine right now. It's not normal to fuck six different girls in three weeks. I think Luvianka is not telling us the complete story. Luvianka is making Ukraine sound as easy as Peru or SEA, and it clearly is not. I appreciate some of your feedback Luvianka, but please keep the hype in check.

Post: #20

(08-19-2011 11:56 AM)The Duke Wrote:  

I signed up for travelgirls.com. You have to pay 59 euros to read or send mail. Give me a fucking break.

I'm in Ukraine right now. It's not normal to fuck six different girls in three weeks. I think Luvianka is not telling us the complete story. Luvianka is making Ukraine sound as easy as Peru or SEA, and it clearly is not. I appreciate some of your feedback Luvianka, but please keep the hype in check.

Did I say it was for free? Do you think I liked to spent $1500 in one girl? Do you know what you can do with that money in Cancún? I clearly said It was a BIG mistake.

Post: #21

Luvianka,
Thanks for the informative post about these small cities in the Ukraine. I've been wanting to hit that place for a long time and I will early next year. Did you take Russian or ukrainian lessons? And if you spoke Russian there, did you encounter any hostility from the Ukrainians as they're not very fond of the Russians for all the abuse they did to them throughout the centuries.
The Duke, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to have read somewhere that you're Indian, right? Then if you're the typical Indian, then perhaps the Ukraine/Russia wouldn't be the best place for you and Indians in general unless you're from the elite white indian class. Landing 6 girls in 3 weeks is far from being not normal, specially if the guy in question is has good game, has class and dresses well and is not a cheapo and if he speaks the lingo and has a good social network. Again, depends on the guy. 6 girls in 3 weeks is far from being an achievement for some, just a matter of perspective. I know a lot of guys who do it on a regular basis. I've done it numerous times in Brasil and even better than that. Yes I do speak Portuguese fluently, have good social circle there and I am not a cheapo of a bean counter, so again, for the guy with the above traits it's totally possible and I'd say anything less is a failure. Now, will I or someone who doesn't speak a lick of Russian/Ukrainian, doesn't have a social circle pull it? Probably not on the first trip, but after the 2nd trip, with a social network established and some lingo skills under his belt, then that can be possible. Perspective perspective as they say...

Post: #22

The only Indian in me is the parasite in my gut that I picked up from living in India too long.

You bring up good points VP. I should be more open minded. Perhaps my initial impressions on Ukraine were not correct. After thinking about, I think what Luvianka did is totally possible.

Post: #23

(08-20-2011 12:24 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Luvianka,
Thanks for the informative post about these small cities in the Ukraine. I've been wanting to hit that place for a long time and I will early next year. Did you take Russian or ukrainian lessons? And if you spoke Russian there, did you encounter any hostility from the Ukrainians as they're not very fond of the Russians for all the abuse they did to them throughout the centuries.
The Duke, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to have read somewhere that you're Indian, right? Then if you're the typical Indian, then perhaps the Ukraine/Russia wouldn't be the best place for you and Indians in general unless you're from the elite white indian class. Landing 6 girls in 3 weeks is far from being not normal, specially if the guy in question is has good game, has class and dresses well and is not a cheapo and if he speaks the lingo and has a good social network. Again, depends on the guy. 6 girls in 3 weeks is far from being an achievement for some, just a matter of perspective. I know a lot of guys who do it on a regular basis. I've done it numerous times in Brasil and even better than that. Yes I do speak Portuguese fluently, have good social circle there and I am not a cheapo of a bean counter, so again, for the guy with the above traits it's totally possible and I'd say anything less is a failure. Now, will I or someone who doesn't speak a lick of Russian/Ukrainian, doesn't have a social circle pull it? Probably not on the first trip, but after the 2nd trip, with a social network established and some lingo skills under his belt, then that can be possible. Perspective perspective as they say...

Not at all. Russian is spoken by everybody. Ukraine is divided by the Dnieper River. East from that river people are pro Russian. West from the river people are anti Russian. Even in Kiev, the capital, people better like to speak Russian over Ukrainian. Just do'nt mess with politics.

Post: #24

(08-19-2011 06:55 AM)Richie Wrote:  6 lays in 3 weeks is admirable for any man... The fact you did it in possibly one of the hardest countries in the world turns everything we have read on this forum on its head. Good work.
*Packs bags.

I don't think it was 6 different girls. He only described his interaction with 3 girls. And he spent one week with one of them.

So, that leaves two weeks for 5 girls. I doubt it. Even so, 3 girls in 3 weeks is fine. Those are the types of numbers Roosh is doing in Poland. And Ukraine is supposed to be harder than Poland

Post: #25

I could see 3 girls in 3 weeks in Ukraine if you went at it hard. But 6 in three weeks is unlikely almost anywhere, especially Ukraine. I imagine you'd have to have some serious social circle hook ups prior to arriving or be opening 20-30 girls a day to pull that off. There simply aren't enough English-speakers around to even hit those numbers (maybe 5% of girls tops).