Post: #1

In South Africa if you are a security guard, maid, bartender, brick layer, waiter etc etc you will struggle to make ends meet. Your kids wont go to college and you will never own a decent home.

What is life like in America, Japan, Norway etc for low skilled workers? Do they get decent salaries and live a good life?

Or do they live in impoverished overcrowded ghettoes like Africans? Are there even ghettoes in Japan, Norway and Switzerland?

Post: #2

Norwegians will be alright if they have a full-time job, don't get sick too much and don't have any psychological problems or addiction. McDonald's employees makes 18 USD an hour and on top of that they get extra pay for work at night time and on weekends. Collage is free. If they're smart they can save money for a few years to get the down payment to an apartment or house. Even if they were to get fired they'd get help from the government.

Post: #3

I obviously didn't live in the period but we tend to hear a couple generations ago like when our parents were growing up you could get a job in a factory or dept store and make enough to support a family. Now days we have changed into a service based economy instead of manufacturing so pay is lower. Many college grads are working retail jobs.

That said I think in the USA we have the most opportunity.

Poverty is cyclical, if you grow up in poverty you tend to follow the same patterns as your parents but at the very least the opportunity is there.

Post: #4

It's the same in more developed countries, the only difference is that the currency is stronger and some have free healthcare and a whole bunch of services. The standard of living of a low skilled worker in western countries is still pretty shitty, it's just they have more creature comforts and a safety net to fall back on relatively speaking.

Post: #5

Its the same in the west, except you have big daddy government to prop you up with healthcare, subsidized housing, free education etc.

If you lose your job the government will give you money to sit on the couch.

Post: #6

There are alot of well paying factory jobs available here in the states. And the pay would probably surprise you. 401k, pensions and average health care. Plus, its about 90% men. Less drama and worrying about being politically correct in what you say.

And yes you can have a nice house in the suburbs, new car and afford quality vacations.

Only downside is the shifts you'll be working. If your okay with working 12 hr shifts at night and have your off time hours screwed up because of it.

Post: #7

Do places like Switzerland, Japan, Belgium have shit hole ghettoes?

Post: #8

(12-21-2016 11:08 PM)Meat Head Wrote:  Do places like Switzerland, Japan, Belgium have shit hole ghettoes?

Japan has a lot of old school day labourer types you can see a lot of them in places like Ueno. A lot are homeless men who snapped and have some mental problems and no family. Its kind of endearing to see how well kept and neat they keep their cardboard homes.

Labourers in Tokyo are often young men between 18 and 30. These guys have a lot of cash to burn and most of them have some of the hottest and sluttiest looking women in Tokyo. They get to wear ninja like work wear and have a lot of alpha swagger.

Zurich has some shitty areas full of non Swiss people who managed to get in somehow and work very menial jobs as well as black market. Not dangerous as much as non cared for and sad to see compared with how the proud Swiss maintain such a high standard of beauty.

Belgium has true ghettos.

Post: #9

Australia is one of the best places to work a "simple" job, if you're smart with your money i can't see why you couldn't put two kids through college own a decent home. Why are you asking?

Post: #10

^I was just curious to know how first world countries treat their low class people. In Africa if you dont get a real education i.e medicine and engineering, you are fucked. I see why there is a migrant invason of Europe and America.

Post: #11

(12-22-2016 02:40 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  In Africa if you dont get a real education i.e medicine and engineering, you are fucked.

Same is true in the under-developed parts of Asia.

Not coincidentally, those two examples you listed are exactly the education my Southeast Asian parents have.

On the flip side, in the US suburb I grew up in, the fast food restaurants struggled so much to hire, that they actually had to put big signs up saying they were hiring.

Post: #12

The period from 1950 to 1975 in Western Europe, Australia and North America was a golden age for menial workers. Strong unions and lavish welfare states allowed them to own houses and cars, send their kids to college, go on foreign holidays etc. Since 1975 this position has been gradually eroding due to: billions of people joining the global labour market in China, India etc., mass immigration into the developed countries and automation/computerisation. This process will continue and almost certainly accelerate in the years ahead.

It was a historical anomaly. Think about it - value seeks value. As a menial worker the value that you create is very limited and can easily be done by many other people and in many cases by machines, and you work basically only at the direction of others.

Post: #13

(12-22-2016 01:02 AM)nick_ Wrote:  Australia is one of the best places to work a "simple" job, if you're smart with your money i can't see why you couldn't put two kids through college own a decent home. Why are you asking?

This is correct.

Unskilled manual labour/warehousing work can pay between 25-35 AUD as 'casual rates'. Full-Time is around 23-27 AUD.

It's mind-numbing repetitive work that goes no where and you gain no skills. It's probably some of the most boring work imaginable, complete drone work.. usually uni students do it part-time. I'm sure most of it will be automated in the next 10 years.

Post: #14

That's pretty good $ and in line with many skilled professionals and tradesmen make here in canada. No warehouse guy makes so much here, maybe 13-20CAD/h a little over 20 max.

Post: #15

What is the pay for blue collar menial jobs working in Norway ?

Post: #16

The question isn't even about pay anymore, a lot of these low skilled high paying jobs have unions or are controlled by a trade association so getting in the hard part. I can attest to that in canada this is the cash, just because a longshoreman makes 45$/h doesn't mean you can just walk up to their shop and get a job; the union controls it and unless you have in it's going to get hard.

Post: #17

(12-23-2016 03:12 PM)Jack Of All Trades Wrote:  The question isn't even about pay anymore, a lot of these low skilled high paying jobs have unions or are controlled by a trade association so getting in the hard part. I can attest to that in canada this is the cash, just because a longshoreman makes 45$/h doesn't mean you can just walk up to their shop and get a job; the union controls it and unless you have in it's going to get hard.

Except for higher skilled union jobs like plumber or electrician. You can find a non union job that pays the same as union jobs and without paying union dues.

Post: #18

Menial workers get paid very little in return for being very good and hard working. Then they lose their jobs to cut costs.

On the other hand overpaid failures at the top get rewarded for said failure.

As a supporter of free market capitalism I say down with the rigged system that rewards the rich for failure and punishes the poor for working hard.

Post: #19

^ Posts like the above belong in the Politics sub-forum.

Post: #20

(12-21-2016 11:08 PM)Meat Head Wrote:  Do places like Switzerland, Japan, Belgium have shit hole ghettoes?

On the outside generally no, they won't look like favela style slums. To your standards they'll look very clean and well maintaned, whereas a westerner will see a dirty ghetto. Mind the difference of perspective.

Don't let that fool you. How the people are living on the inside of those places is where you will begin to find similarities. We just do a better job of masking the effects of poverty.

Post: #21

(12-23-2016 04:59 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  Except for higher skilled union jobs like plumber or electrician. You can find a non union job that pays the same as union jobs and without paying union dues.

Ok well, how are you going to become a skilled tradesman then? who's going to teach you? you kind of assume you can just become one of these skilled tradesmen by working for a company and that's that. Guys who have experience and their trade tickets usually just self contract and leave the unions after they get skilled up. Getting in is hard regardless of whether your union or not because your pretty much just a laborer that most shops can pick up off the street.

As for union dues? I don't know what your talking about, yes they cost $. But, these unions also gaurantee you a pension and disability benefits and health insurance. Not only that but they provide legal assistance in employer-employee disputes and free courses and training in your trade.