Post: #1

Hey guys,
here is a question about something that happens to me on a regular basis and is fucking annoying:
I'm not sure what to call it, but I will try to explain it:
When I start "going" for a girl - I decide to push it, I have an agenda to pick her up and not just hanging out for her - I guess I become too tense / intense / self aware or something, but instead of attracting the girl to me I kind of end up doing the opposite to a level where eye contact becomes kinda broken.
This has happened tonight:
Coworker chick we rarely meet, but she clearly enjoys my sense of humor and perspective on things. We generally have a good flow, last week we met I made her laugh for like a minute or so, etc. etc. Here you just gotta trust me on this one that I can read the situation well.
We had a christmas company get together and I decided to kinda go for it.
At the beginning of the party she greeted me with a wide, open smile and eyes, but throughout the night - I started interacting more with her, some kino, etc. - my efforts resulted in setting up a wall between us.
The place where it's the easiest to capture the shift is the eye contact. Maybe I was too reckless making eye contact with her, instead of a careless, flirty joyful scene between us I managed to wreck it to the extent that making eyecontact became a problem. It was literally hard to make her look at me, there became some sort of a fucking force field. Some sort of a "bad energy".
As if I was pushing it too much (in an unskilled way), and it resulted in her.. registering it as.. a bad kind of aggression? I don't know, but I almost got a headache.
I know it's a complex issue, but does anyone have experience about this overcharged, heavy eyecontact that this interaction resulted in?

It's almost as if I'm straining my eyes now and I think she oughta feel somewhat similar.
Thanks ahead guys!

I kinda like really direct game, because there everything is super simple and when you look at a girl with a "I wanna fuck you" charge, it's clearly communicated. But when it comes to a more subtle and gradual game I'm pretty much lost.

Post: #2

You seem to analyse well your own mistakes and behaviour.
What you could do is have someone film you, while you're approaching girls : this way you'll see by yourself what creates that "force field".
Maybe you open your eyes too much, or stare too long, or have a forced smile, who knows?

Oh, and by the way, don't shit where you eat.

Post: #3

Gaming Coworkers is never a good idea.

Maybe your intense eyecontact made her realise, that you are actually gaming her - and made her retreat.

I have some very hot coworkers and I always lock eyes when interacting with them. But its work, so I see it as practice, since I follow the "dont-fuck-at-the-factory"-rule. You should too.

Post: #4

(12-17-2016 05:28 AM)CameraXL Wrote:  But its work, so I see it as practice, since I follow the "dont-fuck-at-the-factory"-rule. You should too.

Thanks guys, I think you are absolutely right on this one.

Post: #5

We cannot help you change your eye contact.

I don't really understand what you mean. By too intense you mean some kind of cartoonish over exaggerated creep mode?

When you want to give her 'i wanna fuck you' eyes you give her a glance with a smirk and slowly break eye contact as if you're starting to imagine something. That's enough. It's short, to the point then off. Or you're both looking at each other for a few long seconds and sexual tension goes up and up and you both know what's coming.

Learn... http://westsidetoastmasters.com/resource...chap8.html

Post: #6

In my humble experiences I would typically recommend against hitting on a coworker, regardless of whether or not you guys end up getting with each other, or alternatively her rejecting you, it will more likely than not change the atmosphere at work, usually in ways that are bad for employment.

Believe me, a similar thing happened to me when I was working at a grocery store... you dont want that to happen to you

Post: #7

Hookups at work do happen, and it's easy to get jealous when you see that Tina and Bob are now an item when you're single. However, most of the time it's the girl that has selected the guy and has sent him very clear signals, and that's what prompted the hookup/relationship.

If you game at work (teasing, physical escalation, being persistent in the face of a shit test) you will find yourself either the talk of the office (in a bad way) or worse, out of a job.

When you are better at the game, you can sit back and let the girls come to you. When you need to practice in order to not be awkward, do it outside of work.

Going back to the initial question, let's assume the same question had been asked of a girl you met in a bar. What kind of conversation did you have, and did you tease, escalate with kino, and did you move her around to test her compliance? It's easy to get carried away with eye contact - there's a fine line between not being shy to look in her eyes and staring into her soul. Eye contact is only one part of game. There are many other aspects of game that you don't talk about in your post.

Post: #8

Are you saying the eye contact ruined the interaction?

Or are you asking about how to deal with ruined eye contact thats resulting from a bad interaction?

I think if you creeped her out then you had a whole bunch of mistakes that you should reflect on. A stare from an attractive man is sexy. A stare from a thristy mumbling dude isnt. So better to state and reflect on everything that went down.

Post: #9

I too struggle with eye contact. My reflex is to fear to meet anyone's eyes. I have to force myself not to turn away every time I'm spotted.

XXL, that body language book you linked looks very interesting, thanks

Post: #10

What about practicing in the mirror? We know how we think we look, or are trying to look, not how we look.

One time, out of curiosity, I put a slightly annoyed look on my face, and checked the mirror to see how it looked, and found myself staring back at a guy who looked like he wanted to kill me.

To achieve the look I wanted, I had to tone it way down to the point it felt like I was barely moving my features at all.

Never would have known this if I hadn't checked. That I had the death stare.

Post: #11

(12-18-2016 12:30 PM)Beirut Wrote:  Are you saying the eye contact ruined the interaction?

Or are you asking about how to deal with ruined eye contact thats resulting from a bad interaction?

I think if you creeped her out then you had a whole bunch of mistakes that you should reflect on. A stare from an attractive man is sexy. A stare from a thristy mumbling dude isnt. So better to state and reflect on everything that went down.

Thanks for the replies guys. I think generally it's a deeper thing, probably about my entire game and clearly there is no quick fix for that, only going out and becoming better by the day.

A better way of describing what the hell I meant is that the eye contact part of our interaction - and again, probably the whole thing, this is just a tip of the iceberg - instead of being free and organic become a freaking project in my head and approached in a conscious manner. I was aware of it and it became a calculated effort. Now I think this has built up over the night and kinda killed our interaction.

Probably this is no new thing around: doing better at interactions when not being (too) self-aware of them. Then it has an organic and instinctual flow.
I suppose ultimately the solution is just getting more approaches / interactions / bangs under my belt, so I can build confidence and bridge the gap between theory and practice, right?


Also XXL thanks for the resource! Seems pretty useful.

debeguiled Wrote:Never would have known this if I hadn't checked. That I had the death stare.

Ah yeah, the dreaded death stare I think I mostly managed to overcome this, but I clearly get what you mean.

Post: #12

(12-16-2016 10:59 PM)Aske Wrote:  Hey guys,
here is a question about something that happens to me on a regular basis and is fucking annoying:
I'm not sure what to call it, but I will try to explain it:
When I start "going" for a girl - I decide to push it, I have an agenda to pick her up and not just hanging out for her - I guess I become too tense / intense / self aware or something, but instead of attracting the girl to me I kind of end up doing the opposite to a level where eye contact becomes kinda broken.
This has happened tonight:
Coworker chick we rarely meet, but she clearly enjoys my sense of humor and perspective on things. We generally have a good flow, last week we met I made her laugh for like a minute or so, etc. etc. Here you just gotta trust me on this one that I can read the situation well.
We had a christmas company get together and I decided to kinda go for it.
At the beginning of the party she greeted me with a wide, open smile and eyes, but throughout the night - I started interacting more with her, some kino, etc. - my efforts resulted in setting up a wall between us.
The place where it's the easiest to capture the shift is the eye contact. Maybe I was too reckless making eye contact with her, instead of a careless, flirty joyful scene between us I managed to wreck it to the extent that making eyecontact became a problem. It was literally hard to make her look at me, there became some sort of a fucking force field. Some sort of a "bad energy".
As if I was pushing it too much (in an unskilled way), and it resulted in her.. registering it as.. a bad kind of aggression? I don't know, but I almost got a headache.
I know it's a complex issue, but does anyone have experience about this overcharged, heavy eyecontact that this interaction resulted in?

It's almost as if I'm straining my eyes now and I think she oughta feel somewhat similar.
Thanks ahead guys!

I kinda like really direct game, because there everything is super simple and when you look at a girl with a "I wanna fuck you" charge, it's clearly communicated. But when it comes to a more subtle and gradual game I'm pretty much lost.

To start, try to treat her eye contact wise the way you would treat one of your male friends. You're doing what women like to blanket label as creepy. She can feel your desire for her a little to intensely through your stare. It weakens your bargaining position in the pick up process and makes you appear like a hungry dog. Be casual. Look away when you talk and then pop back into the convo and emphasize something while staring in her eyes. Look at your drink, crack a smile and widen your eyes when she says something funny and then look away again. Be casual. Reverse engineer. You want to appear as the guy who's been here before, not someone who just had their first wet dream. She's but one part of the social setting you can engage with.

It's nice to talk to her but it's not the reason you get up in the morning.